I've got rods at circa £50-£60 per rod and they catch me fish. I've never spent more than this per rod. I can cast decent distances for what I need. And then a pal of mine has three free spirit rods that cost him £1,260. What's your views on this price difference versus the lower prices rods? Is it worth it and what extra benefits come from spending an extra grand?
In reply to Post #1
There's some decent rods in the £50-60 price range these days but they will generally be mass produced in China on ‘average' blanks with a higher resin content. The build quality will not be as good, and the components will be of a lesser quality. I'd be surprised if they're still going after 10 years heavy use.
Your mate's free spirit rods will be made in the Uk on better quality blanks with better components, and better build quality. Like for like they will perform better for Longer, including casting performance.
I guess it's like buying a Kia or a Mercedes. They both do the same thing but the Merc will do it better, for longer, if well serviced, and is more enjoyable to drive.
There's some decent rods in the £50-60 price range these days but they will generally be mass produced in China on ‘average' blanks with a higher resin content. The build quality will not be as good, and the components will be of a lesser quality. I'd be surprised if they're still going after 10 years heavy use.
Your mate's free spirit rods will be made in the Uk on better quality blanks with better components, and better build quality. Like for like they will perform better for Longer, including casting performance.
I guess it's like buying a Kia or a Mercedes. They both do the same thing but the Merc will do it better, for longer, if well serviced, and is more enjoyable to drive.
In reply to Post #2
i dont think it is like a kia and a merc, some of the budget rods now a days are simply great, it might be like a kia vs a merc in price, but not performance , price is in no way scale reflected on what they deliver on the performance or longterm use, now a days, ive seen old rods go on and on, and cast far, etc, they might have better parts used,that will last alongtime, but the time they will last on top rods doesnt reflect the price to value, as a top end rod, doesnt do anything budget rods wont, and budget rods all have good fittings now that will serve 10-15 years no problem
i dont think it is like a kia and a merc, some of the budget rods now a days are simply great, it might be like a kia vs a merc in price, but not performance , price is in no way scale reflected on what they deliver on the performance or longterm use, now a days, ive seen old rods go on and on, and cast far, etc, they might have better parts used,that will last alongtime, but the time they will last on top rods doesnt reflect the price to value, as a top end rod, doesnt do anything budget rods wont, and budget rods all have good fittings now that will serve 10-15 years no problem
In reply to Post #3
Really??.....
Really??.....
In reply to Post #4
Yes. There will be a big difference between a Merc and a Kia but the difference between the most expensive and the cheapest rods won't be as big.
Anyone who insists on having the best rods to gain minor improvements will have to pay a disproportional amount to get them.
Yes. There will be a big difference between a Merc and a Kia but the difference between the most expensive and the cheapest rods won't be as big.
Anyone who insists on having the best rods to gain minor improvements will have to pay a disproportional amount to get them.
In reply to Post #5
It's the law of diminishing returns like stereo systems back in the day for vinyl records there comes a point where spending more money is pointless unless you have perfect hearing which most people don't. You won't get the benefit of the extra money unless you have the best technique and ability. Nice to have good gear if money is no object though. I'm not a formula one driver, but I'd like an Aston martin.
It's the law of diminishing returns like stereo systems back in the day for vinyl records there comes a point where spending more money is pointless unless you have perfect hearing which most people don't. You won't get the benefit of the extra money unless you have the best technique and ability. Nice to have good gear if money is no object though. I'm not a formula one driver, but I'd like an Aston martin.
In reply to Post #6
My mates is a cycling enthusiast, he'll pay a fortune for special parts because they are a few grams lighter but he reckons it all adds up. Up to him, it makes him happy
My mates is a cycling enthusiast, he'll pay a fortune for special parts because they are a few grams lighter but he reckons it all adds up. Up to him, it makes him happy
In reply to Post #7
have a same friend... he drives 4k mtb and I drive 300 decathlon one.. so far we walked 3 times home because his broke down
but is is light as feather
have a same friend... he drives 4k mtb and I drive 300 decathlon one.. so far we walked 3 times home because his broke down
but is is light as feather
In reply to Post #2
Free spirit rods are 'built' in the UK, the blanks are from the far east. Still, great blanks.
If you ask a mechanic nowadays, if using the car manufacturer as an analogy, All the lower end Merc actually run on Renault produced and supplied running gear and electrics......lots of cars now use parts from many other manufactures. Does this make them lesser in quality?
There are some very capable low to middle range rods, there made in the far east, they do the job well and will do for a considerable time. You pays your money .......
Some people like all the Gucci gear, some prefer to buy wiser.
Free spirit rods are 'built' in the UK, the blanks are from the far east. Still, great blanks.
If you ask a mechanic nowadays, if using the car manufacturer as an analogy, All the lower end Merc actually run on Renault produced and supplied running gear and electrics......lots of cars now use parts from many other manufactures. Does this make them lesser in quality?
There are some very capable low to middle range rods, there made in the far east, they do the job well and will do for a considerable time. You pays your money .......
Some people like all the Gucci gear, some prefer to buy wiser.
ive used my shimano velocitys for years, and for a ''budget rod'' i think they're one of the best bang for buck rods you can buy.
All these lot picking the car analogy to pieces 
The bottom line is it's the person using the gear that catches the fish. If that person is a good angler they'll catch more than many others, whether they have 10 quid rods or 1,000 quid rods will be irrelevant 99% of the time.
When I was a teenager and I 1st started fishing my local circuit waters I started noticing these strange "bank Tramp" types, with mismatched rods and reels, one of them even had the eyes taped on his rods rather than whipped on. Banged up old motors and clothes with holes in them....
They caught the majority of the fish though and only spent their money on things like bait and tickets and petrol. That's something that's stayed with me all my life. It is lovely to have top of the range gear but it'll make little practical difference most of the time.
The bottom line is it's the person using the gear that catches the fish. If that person is a good angler they'll catch more than many others, whether they have 10 quid rods or 1,000 quid rods will be irrelevant 99% of the time.
When I was a teenager and I 1st started fishing my local circuit waters I started noticing these strange "bank Tramp" types, with mismatched rods and reels, one of them even had the eyes taped on his rods rather than whipped on. Banged up old motors and clothes with holes in them....
They caught the majority of the fish though and only spent their money on things like bait and tickets and petrol. That's something that's stayed with me all my life. It is lovely to have top of the range gear but it'll make little practical difference most of the time.
In reply to Post #6
When I was into hi fi 20 years ago I knew a few folks who shared the same interest.
One bloke replaced his 1000 quid amplifier with a new one costing 3000 quid.
He invited all his mates round and they played some music and did a blind test.
The verdict was, the sound quality was equal and some tracks sounded slightly different with the new amp but not necessarily better.
When I was into hi fi 20 years ago I knew a few folks who shared the same interest.
One bloke replaced his 1000 quid amplifier with a new one costing 3000 quid.
He invited all his mates round and they played some music and did a blind test.
The verdict was, the sound quality was equal and some tracks sounded slightly different with the new amp but not necessarily better.
In reply to Post #12
What HiFI staff have been doing mental gymnastics to justify never doing blind tests for that very reason.
What HiFI staff have been doing mental gymnastics to justify never doing blind tests for that very reason.
I can chip in with a couple of examples here:
Carp - Couple of years back I bought a pair of Wychwood D201 rods for £100 (for the pair, new) and put Daiwa Black Widow 25A reels on them that cost me about £120 for the pair. I've caught loads of fish on this set up, can't fault it, does the same job for the purpose that any other rod and reel would.
I also have a set of 3 Harrison Torrix TE's with Daiwa Castizm 25QDA reels, much more money invested in these. I'd be lying if I said you couldn't see and feel the difference in quality, but then I'd hope so due to the cost difference!
The expensive set up feels lighter, smoother and just more refined in general. Hard to put a finger on it but you can tell.
Barbel - did my first full season on Korum barbel rods at £55 each and Shimano 6000DL RB reels at about £60 each. Caught loads of barbel to over 13lb and thoroughly enjoyed using them.
This season I've been using Free Spirit Hi-S barbel rods (£330 each) and Shimano 6000D reels (£140 each). Like the carp stuff, it hasn't increased my catch rate but you can tell the difference in quality without a doubt.
The biggest issue of course, is that you have to look after the more expensive gear a lot more carefully!
Carp - Couple of years back I bought a pair of Wychwood D201 rods for £100 (for the pair, new) and put Daiwa Black Widow 25A reels on them that cost me about £120 for the pair. I've caught loads of fish on this set up, can't fault it, does the same job for the purpose that any other rod and reel would.
I also have a set of 3 Harrison Torrix TE's with Daiwa Castizm 25QDA reels, much more money invested in these. I'd be lying if I said you couldn't see and feel the difference in quality, but then I'd hope so due to the cost difference!
The expensive set up feels lighter, smoother and just more refined in general. Hard to put a finger on it but you can tell.
Barbel - did my first full season on Korum barbel rods at £55 each and Shimano 6000DL RB reels at about £60 each. Caught loads of barbel to over 13lb and thoroughly enjoyed using them.
This season I've been using Free Spirit Hi-S barbel rods (£330 each) and Shimano 6000D reels (£140 each). Like the carp stuff, it hasn't increased my catch rate but you can tell the difference in quality without a doubt.
The biggest issue of course, is that you have to look after the more expensive gear a lot more carefully!
In reply to Post #1
Bit of a how long's a piece of string really mate. Think I've got around 38 rods in the tackle shed. Some budget, some over £600 per rod that are under 8ft, plenty second hand. All bought to do specific things. That's the main point for me. What do I want this rod to do for me that what I've got can't. Pay what you want for your gear. It's a hobby not a profession and as someone said earlier, price of the gear you use says nothing about the angler you are.
Bit of a how long's a piece of string really mate. Think I've got around 38 rods in the tackle shed. Some budget, some over £600 per rod that are under 8ft, plenty second hand. All bought to do specific things. That's the main point for me. What do I want this rod to do for me that what I've got can't. Pay what you want for your gear. It's a hobby not a profession and as someone said earlier, price of the gear you use says nothing about the angler you are.
In reply to Post #1
My wife bought me a set of 3 Shimano rods for Christmas a few years ago. They weren't a bad rod, but I found them a little heavier than some FreeSpirits that I'd previously owned but stupidly sold on when I got a bit hard up.
I caught plenty of fish on the Shimmies, but always hankered after a new set of the FreeSpirits and when I could afford them, splashed out.
I've not regretted it.
The FreeSpirits are the perfect rod for my fishing needs, and I'll never sell them again.
They are lighter, and have a much better "action".
My wife bought me a set of 3 Shimano rods for Christmas a few years ago. They weren't a bad rod, but I found them a little heavier than some FreeSpirits that I'd previously owned but stupidly sold on when I got a bit hard up.
I caught plenty of fish on the Shimmies, but always hankered after a new set of the FreeSpirits and when I could afford them, splashed out.
I've not regretted it.
The FreeSpirits are the perfect rod for my fishing needs, and I'll never sell them again.
They are lighter, and have a much better "action".
In reply to Post #10
great example , a bit heavy - but for the price really great rods, and they can do stupid distance in the right hands,well made, nice rods, for example something like these rods, and put the money saved on the top rods into the best reel to go on this rod, win win,
great example , a bit heavy - but for the price really great rods, and they can do stupid distance in the right hands,well made, nice rods, for example something like these rods, and put the money saved on the top rods into the best reel to go on this rod, win win,
In reply to Post #17
i pair mine up with daiwa tourneys.
i can do 120-130 with these no problem.
i pair mine up with daiwa tourneys.
i can do 120-130 with these no problem.
I think you get what you pay for in the lower price brackets - e.g. a £20 rod or reel won't be up to much compared to a £50 or £100 rod. After about £100 for a rod the gains become very minimal to me and personally I think between £50-100 per rod gives the best 'bang for your buck'.
I currently use custom build century C2s (>£500 a rod), prior to these I used berkley b3 rods. The centurys may cast a tad further but otherwise do the same job so you could argue they are no better despite being £400 each more expensive (the berkleys were about £100 each). On the flip side they are slimmer, lighter, more responsive and cosmetically nicer to look at while you blank.
Are they worth £400 per rod extra? Probably not. Are they 5 times as good as the rods that they cost 5 times as much as? No.
Sometimes it's nice to have nice things but you certainly don't need expensive rods to catch carp.
I currently use custom build century C2s (>£500 a rod), prior to these I used berkley b3 rods. The centurys may cast a tad further but otherwise do the same job so you could argue they are no better despite being £400 each more expensive (the berkleys were about £100 each). On the flip side they are slimmer, lighter, more responsive and cosmetically nicer to look at while you blank.
Are they worth £400 per rod extra? Probably not. Are they 5 times as good as the rods that they cost 5 times as much as? No.
Sometimes it's nice to have nice things but you certainly don't need expensive rods to catch carp.
Some really good comments. Thanks to all. Like someone said, it's a hobby and you'll end up trying different types of gear as and when you need to do.
I like the idea of lighter rods and and more action/responsiveness. Cosmetics is a nice to have too and as someone else said, helps get you through when you blank
I like the idea of lighter rods and and more action/responsiveness. Cosmetics is a nice to have too and as someone else said, helps get you through when you blank
These posts remind me of a sentence my dad told me over 30 years ago when i was just starting fishing....
The fish don't know you've got the best gear money can buy ....the only thing that will catch you more fish is the bit in the water......
The fish don't know you've got the best gear money can buy ....the only thing that will catch you more fish is the bit in the water......
In reply to Post #21
There is a basis of truth in that comment
But having the right kit to enable you to put that bait in right location ,in the first place
then extract the fish from said location ,also can have a massive bearing on the result
Sometime s any old kit won't do the job
There is a basis of truth in that comment
But having the right kit to enable you to put that bait in right location ,in the first place
then extract the fish from said location ,also can have a massive bearing on the result
Sometime s any old kit won't do the job
In reply to Post #22
I've always liked having nice gear and it was something that I worked towards when younger, saving up until I could get the latest set of Free Spirit's etc. Over the years I've had a lot of top end kit (Infinities, Torrix, Free Spirits XS etc) but in more recent times have reverted to mid-range kit.
Some of the best anglers I've ever met/ fished with have battered old kit. I am now firmly of the thought that the last 6ft is where you don't want to be making compromises – rigs, end tackle and bait. Money is definitely best spent on this rather than whats sitting on your alarms on the bank. As long as my kit can get this last 6ft where it needs to be (i.e. where the fish are) then I am happy.
Love him or hate him, Greg Ellis recently posted the setup that he caught the Burghfield Common on...rod and reel for about £160 I think. Says it all.
I've always liked having nice gear and it was something that I worked towards when younger, saving up until I could get the latest set of Free Spirit's etc. Over the years I've had a lot of top end kit (Infinities, Torrix, Free Spirits XS etc) but in more recent times have reverted to mid-range kit.
Some of the best anglers I've ever met/ fished with have battered old kit. I am now firmly of the thought that the last 6ft is where you don't want to be making compromises – rigs, end tackle and bait. Money is definitely best spent on this rather than whats sitting on your alarms on the bank. As long as my kit can get this last 6ft where it needs to be (i.e. where the fish are) then I am happy.
Love him or hate him, Greg Ellis recently posted the setup that he caught the Burghfield Common on...rod and reel for about £160 I think. Says it all.
Most of todays blanks are decent quality and improving all the time, the fittings are better than they used to be on cheaper rods. I only use and build on harrison blanks as they are tried and tested and i have 100% faith in them and on the rare occasion something does go wrong i know i can get spare sections immediately.
Reels are the things that i find are not progressing in quality , some of the new models from both daiwa and shimano i would,nt touch with a barge pole .
Reels are the things that i find are not progressing in quality , some of the new models from both daiwa and shimano i would,nt touch with a barge pole .
In reply to Post #24
but some budget reels like okuma and penn both of these i have , are great and very strong
but some budget reels like okuma and penn both of these i have , are great and very strong
In reply to Post #25
Totally agree 👍
Totally agree 👍
In reply to Post #25
I've got the Affinity 7000's and they're great. Glad I didn't spend the extra and get the c14+ models.
I've got the Affinity 7000's and they're great. Glad I didn't spend the extra and get the c14+ models.
In reply to Post #1
You don't necessarily get better performance from high end kit but the finish/presentation may be better on the high end kit.
I've got free spirit's but choose to use shimano tx2 intensity rods (£75-80 ea) as they out perform the fs rods and have a great action imo. 35+ wraps easily achieved.
In this case would spending 5 times the money give even 20% better performance? .... I very much doubt it.
As mentioned elsewhere. Money is usually better spent on bait, the cheapest bait simply isn't as good as quality as more expensive bait.
You don't necessarily get better performance from high end kit but the finish/presentation may be better on the high end kit.
I've got free spirit's but choose to use shimano tx2 intensity rods (£75-80 ea) as they out perform the fs rods and have a great action imo. 35+ wraps easily achieved.
In this case would spending 5 times the money give even 20% better performance? .... I very much doubt it.
As mentioned elsewhere. Money is usually better spent on bait, the cheapest bait simply isn't as good as quality as more expensive bait.
In reply to Post #28
Using braid to cast 35 rod lengths?
Using braid to cast 35 rod lengths?
I had a set of FreeSpirit Hi S rods in 3.5 TC, 12' 6” and 50mm ringing.
I didn't exactly dislike them but I was a bit disappointed with the general ‘feel' of them. I was always afraid of a hook pull under the tip as it was too stiff in my opinion. I was especially nervous with some large French carp giving it full fight mode under the tip. I felt I was relying too much on the line and reel clutch and there was no cushioning by the rod tip on head banging and lunges. Probably due to the fast action for casting but not as nice as a more through actioned rod.
I sold them and reverted to my ESP Vertex's and felt a good deal happier. Not a cheap rod years ago but can be picked up for a song these days. It is also a rod which gets lots of mentions in “”best rod you have owned” or ‘rods you regretted selling' etc etc so there must be something about them
I didn't exactly dislike them but I was a bit disappointed with the general ‘feel' of them. I was always afraid of a hook pull under the tip as it was too stiff in my opinion. I was especially nervous with some large French carp giving it full fight mode under the tip. I felt I was relying too much on the line and reel clutch and there was no cushioning by the rod tip on head banging and lunges. Probably due to the fast action for casting but not as nice as a more through actioned rod.
I sold them and reverted to my ESP Vertex's and felt a good deal happier. Not a cheap rod years ago but can be picked up for a song these days. It is also a rod which gets lots of mentions in “”best rod you have owned” or ‘rods you regretted selling' etc etc so there must be something about them
There are tons of good rods in the 100-150 bracket that will be very close to the performance of the top end rods
If we're talking value for money though, resale value is a factor to consider. I bought some used greys platinum rods for peanuts, and nearly bought a set of nash nrxd last year for less than what a single rod cost when they came out, whereas Harrison, century or free spirit rods hold some value.
The real value when buying new rods is picking the recently superceded models at clearance prices
If we're talking value for money though, resale value is a factor to consider. I bought some used greys platinum rods for peanuts, and nearly bought a set of nash nrxd last year for less than what a single rod cost when they came out, whereas Harrison, century or free spirit rods hold some value.
The real value when buying new rods is picking the recently superceded models at clearance prices
In reply to Post #29
Nope. Can exceed 35 wraps with korda tapered 12lb line
0.33 line tapered to 0.5. Mitchell Avocast BE 8k reels.
Nope. Can exceed 35 wraps with korda tapered 12lb line
0.33 line tapered to 0.5. Mitchell Avocast BE 8k reels.
In reply to Post #32
What test curve are those TX2'S.
Not saying I'm a massive caster, but to give you an idea, I've got Harrison Trebuchet Lites and can cast them to around 160 yards with 16lb .38/39 line and 35lb mono shock leader. With the line you're using and these rods???
What test curve are those TX2'S.
Not saying I'm a massive caster, but to give you an idea, I've got Harrison Trebuchet Lites and can cast them to around 160 yards with 16lb .38/39 line and 35lb mono shock leader. With the line you're using and these rods???
In reply to Post #33
Good watch, the tx2 intensity is 3.5+ or 3.75tc depending on what your read.
https://youtu.be/2sAvcx-ky94
Good watch, the tx2 intensity is 3.5+ or 3.75tc depending on what your read.
https://youtu.be/2sAvcx-ky94
In reply to Post #33
So if 160 yards with 16lb line is not massive what do you consider massive?
So if 160 yards with 16lb line is not massive what do you consider massive?
In reply to Post #35
200yds?
Just to be clear, I ain't hitting those ranges all the time, more like my best ever cast in perfect conditions, add wind into the equation and I'm knackered
All of this is incidental as there is no way I can get bait from a spomb to that sort of range, just singles. So all in all, as I like to fish over beds of bait, it's all rather pointless.
Edited to add: got the line diameter wrong, it's 0.34 @16lb not 038 as I'd stated
200yds?
Just to be clear, I ain't hitting those ranges all the time, more like my best ever cast in perfect conditions, add wind into the equation and I'm knackered
All of this is incidental as there is no way I can get bait from a spomb to that sort of range, just singles. So all in all, as I like to fish over beds of bait, it's all rather pointless.
Edited to add: got the line diameter wrong, it's 0.34 @16lb not 038 as I'd stated
In reply to Post #34
That's a fantastic watch. Just goes to show that the TX2 is a very capable rod
That's a fantastic watch. Just goes to show that the TX2 is a very capable rod
In reply to Post #1
I think if you stick with long term reputation then you won't go wrong.
If you gave me the choice between a top of the range Pro Logic rod over a second hand mid range Daiwa rod, i'd choose the latter.
Rods and Reels are different too in the sense that there are far more components in a reels that could/would go wrong.
The way I see it is, if it's still exchanging hands 15 years+ after release (Baboons, Emblem 5000t's, long casts etc) then the quality is obviously there. I would be interested to see how many cheap and nasty "Vader" products will be on the market in 15 years time, because I can tell by my own (on my Pike rods) that they will not last.
I think if you stick with long term reputation then you won't go wrong.
If you gave me the choice between a top of the range Pro Logic rod over a second hand mid range Daiwa rod, i'd choose the latter.
Rods and Reels are different too in the sense that there are far more components in a reels that could/would go wrong.
The way I see it is, if it's still exchanging hands 15 years+ after release (Baboons, Emblem 5000t's, long casts etc) then the quality is obviously there. I would be interested to see how many cheap and nasty "Vader" products will be on the market in 15 years time, because I can tell by my own (on my Pike rods) that they will not last.
In reply to Post #34
great video
great video
Anyone else getting a Dannylongcast vibe from this new guy
In reply to Post #40
Don't know what you mean
Don't know what you mean
In reply to Post #40
If you're talking about me, I was trying to give an idea of the differences between cheaper Vs more expensive rods and absolutely zero to with my b ollocks are bigger than yours which is really a childish and boring thing to do. I did preface it with 'i'm not a massive caster' and was being sincere with that remark.
No need for the sly digs. I was being genuine and not a look at me, ain't I the ballhang. It's not easy to put stuff across on a txt post and it's very easy to get the wrong impression of what someone is attempting to put over
If you're talking about me, I was trying to give an idea of the differences between cheaper Vs more expensive rods and absolutely zero to with my b ollocks are bigger than yours which is really a childish and boring thing to do. I did preface it with 'i'm not a massive caster' and was being sincere with that remark.
No need for the sly digs. I was being genuine and not a look at me, ain't I the ballhang. It's not easy to put stuff across on a txt post and it's very easy to get the wrong impression of what someone is attempting to put over
I assume that Terry has booked himself in for a few tuition sessions with you to up his game.
In reply to Post #15
Spot on its only a hobby for most, buy the gear you fancy and can afford.
Spot on its only a hobby for most, buy the gear you fancy and can afford.
In reply to Post #42
Mate it wasn't my intention in anyway to offend or insult my apologies if you felt I did that.
I completely agree with you about post/text coming across not as intended or misunderstood.
Peace and love .
Mate it wasn't my intention in anyway to offend or insult my apologies if you felt I did that.
I completely agree with you about post/text coming across not as intended or misunderstood.
Peace and love .
In reply to Post #45
Mate, I'm genuinely cool. Zero offence taken.
It's though sometimes not to misrepresent yourself and things get taken in a way they're not intended. I try my best to put across what I'm trying to say, I'll keep working on it as best I can.
All the best dude 👍
Mate, I'm genuinely cool. Zero offence taken.
It's though sometimes not to misrepresent yourself and things get taken in a way they're not intended. I try my best to put across what I'm trying to say, I'll keep working on it as best I can.
All the best dude 👍
In reply to Post #43
Couldn't do much for him really. Was casting like a pussy till I straightened him out. Got him casting 100yds though. Obviously he's never going to beat my 'crazy insane' god like 160yds chuck. Goes without saying. Ya feel me blood?
Couldn't do much for him really. Was casting like a pussy till I straightened him out. Got him casting 100yds though. Obviously he's never going to beat my 'crazy insane' god like 160yds chuck. Goes without saying. Ya feel me blood?
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