As we're soon to say good bye to summer and enter the period where carp tend to stock up before winter, what's your approach with bait?
Do you turn it up and increase your spodding amounts? Go for a different mix or keep it the same?
Having read some comments on the use of liquids and how some believe it doesn't make much of an impact, I'm reluctant to buy into the marketing hype around it. In fact, I'm certain I won't.
My approach next month is going to be a mix of hemp, corn, ground bait, chopped boilie in my mix.
How do you approach pre-winter fishing with your bait strategy?
Do you turn it up and increase your spodding amounts? Go for a different mix or keep it the same?
Having read some comments on the use of liquids and how some believe it doesn't make much of an impact, I'm reluctant to buy into the marketing hype around it. In fact, I'm certain I won't.
My approach next month is going to be a mix of hemp, corn, ground bait, chopped boilie in my mix.
How do you approach pre-winter fishing with your bait strategy?
In reply to Post #1
Boilie for me, particle early season.
I don't bother with liquids, i have done in the past and im not convinced it makes much difference.
Boilie for me, particle early season.
I don't bother with liquids, i have done in the past and im not convinced it makes much difference.
In reply to Post #1
I can assure you that a good liquid/liquid's used correctly will most definitely make a difference.
I can assure you that a good liquid/liquid's used correctly will most definitely make a difference.
In reply to Post #3
How can you assure me? Do you work for a bait company?
Why are you so confident a liquid produces more results than not using one? And please explain how you use it correctly over those that perhaps do not, in your opinion!
How can you assure me? Do you work for a bait company?
Why are you so confident a liquid produces more results than not using one? And please explain how you use it correctly over those that perhaps do not, in your opinion!
In reply to Post #4
If you reign your attitude in you'll find that people are far more helpful.
No I don't work for a bait company.
I was trying to help you out, thank you for reminding me why I don't bother with this kind of thing on the forum these days
If you reign your attitude in you'll find that people are far more helpful.
No I don't work for a bait company.
I was trying to help you out, thank you for reminding me why I don't bother with this kind of thing on the forum these days
In reply to Post #5
Attitude?
I like substance behind debates/conversations, not empty or useless statements. Apologies if that has offended you pal. I even said, “please” when asking you a question to explain your assurances. And you see that as attitude?!
If you “assure me” with no substance, one can only guess you work for a bait company (NB: I even used a smiley face). I guessed wrong. Although it would be good to hear some detail around your assurances
Attitude?
I like substance behind debates/conversations, not empty or useless statements. Apologies if that has offended you pal. I even said, “please” when asking you a question to explain your assurances. And you see that as attitude?!
If you “assure me” with no substance, one can only guess you work for a bait company (NB: I even used a smiley face). I guessed wrong. Although it would be good to hear some detail around your assurances
In reply to Post #6
Nelbow, search for “The Carp Angler Chronicles” podcast. You will find all the substance you need from Sam!
Nelbow, search for “The Carp Angler Chronicles” podcast. You will find all the substance you need from Sam!
In reply to Post #1
Simply carry on as normal, with whatever approach you are most happy with.
Simply carry on as normal, with whatever approach you are most happy with.
In reply to Post #7
Thanks Jamie
Thanks Jamie
In reply to Post #3
I can assure you the opposite.
I can assure you the opposite.
In reply to Post #10
Rubbish...
Rubbish...
In reply to Post #11
Agreed, they are.
Agreed, they are.
Never really used off the shelf liquids myself, one thing I do find that makes a difference though Is soaking my boilies in the liquid left over from cooking my tigers, made a big difference in my catch rate.
In reply to Post #10
You say you can “assure me the opposite”, but I've just noticed on another thread you wrote that you “know naff all about bait”
Maybe stick to commenting on what you do actually know about rather than leading people astray
For those interested- a good hydrolysate has turned my angling around more times than I can remember.
I'm also lucky enough to be able to test bait on my pond fish as well as lake fish (old carp, not young stockies) and I have no shadow of a doubt that a good quality hydro is amongst the very best things you could spend your money on regarding bait (again, I don't own and am not affiliated with any bait firm etc).
I'm explaining this to hopefully give someone the confidence to go and experiment.
Sure, sometimes it can be overkill and can work against you, but more often than not when you get it right it really does pay off like nothing else.
Enjoy...
You say you can “assure me the opposite”, but I've just noticed on another thread you wrote that you “know naff all about bait”
Maybe stick to commenting on what you do actually know about rather than leading people astray
For those interested- a good hydrolysate has turned my angling around more times than I can remember.
I'm also lucky enough to be able to test bait on my pond fish as well as lake fish (old carp, not young stockies) and I have no shadow of a doubt that a good quality hydro is amongst the very best things you could spend your money on regarding bait (again, I don't own and am not affiliated with any bait firm etc).
I'm explaining this to hopefully give someone the confidence to go and experiment.
Sure, sometimes it can be overkill and can work against you, but more often than not when you get it right it really does pay off like nothing else.
Enjoy...
In reply to Post #14
You see, i have done similar testing and it made no difference. I know naff all, correct, i couldn't tell why it didn't make a difference, i just know it didn't.
Im sure you think it does as do many others, which is fine, but im saying, for me, it didn't.
Edited to remove daft comment.
You see, i have done similar testing and it made no difference. I know naff all, correct, i couldn't tell why it didn't make a difference, i just know it didn't.
Im sure you think it does as do many others, which is fine, but im saying, for me, it didn't.
Edited to remove daft comment.
In reply to Post #15
That just means you've not used the right ones...
That just means you've not used the right ones...
In reply to Post #1
Nothing changes for me unless observations & results start getting worse.
Nothing changes for me unless observations & results start getting worse.
In reply to Post #15
I'd be very surprised if you had done similar testing to me, can't imagine anyone else bing that geeky about it but I guess I could be wrong!
Which liquids have you tried and how exactly have you tried them, and over how long a period of time?
I'd be very surprised if you had done similar testing to me, can't imagine anyone else bing that geeky about it but I guess I could be wrong!
Which liquids have you tried and how exactly have you tried them, and over how long a period of time?
Liquids a big thing for me also.
In reply to Post #19
Ok let's try and put some clarity to these thoughts and dismissive comments. Do liquids make any difference?
The answer is yes
It is no secret who I work for but it has been a secret who I have worked with over the years. Hydro liquids are probably the biggest attractors in recent times and something I wish I had back in the beginning when we used to roll at home in the 90s. Hydro liquids offer free flowing amino acids, salts and minerals that carp desire. Can I prove it? Yes I can
I have worked alongside ross jelfs who is the owner of Lowerberryfield fisheries for quite a few years now and we have tested every powder, flavour, liquid, additive I can think of and even now after all these years I was amazed at what we saw at times. This post could be huge so I will shorten it slightly. With a good basemix (i mean a real one with majority fishmeal) and a test of different liquids, the fish will show a distinct reaction. But the important bit was the fact that the carp in the next tank along that were not being fed but the pool is linked by a drain that goes under the two pools, would always hug the outlet cover and be mouthing the grill as they can clearly taste something in the water. A reaction I had not noticed before. In our own fishery the liquids also did one other major task. When we coated baits in the thick salmon hydro and placed them on a gravel strip we watched the carp come in and destroy the hnv baits (the carp are highly pressured and very rig aware) but when all visible boilies were gone the carp continued to feed on the area attracted by those heavy liquids still laced on the lakebed. That's the point, they are heavy, sticky and lay low on the floor just where your hook will be. One other thing, the ph. Do a simple test on hydro liquids and you will see that some are very acidic ph 4/5.......that in itself is a investigative trigger in my opinion. Lastly, what is the most attractive thing in liquid???? Another liquid!!
I won't make a bait or go fishing without liquids
Ok let's try and put some clarity to these thoughts and dismissive comments. Do liquids make any difference?
The answer is yes
It is no secret who I work for but it has been a secret who I have worked with over the years. Hydro liquids are probably the biggest attractors in recent times and something I wish I had back in the beginning when we used to roll at home in the 90s. Hydro liquids offer free flowing amino acids, salts and minerals that carp desire. Can I prove it? Yes I can
I have worked alongside ross jelfs who is the owner of Lowerberryfield fisheries for quite a few years now and we have tested every powder, flavour, liquid, additive I can think of and even now after all these years I was amazed at what we saw at times. This post could be huge so I will shorten it slightly. With a good basemix (i mean a real one with majority fishmeal) and a test of different liquids, the fish will show a distinct reaction. But the important bit was the fact that the carp in the next tank along that were not being fed but the pool is linked by a drain that goes under the two pools, would always hug the outlet cover and be mouthing the grill as they can clearly taste something in the water. A reaction I had not noticed before. In our own fishery the liquids also did one other major task. When we coated baits in the thick salmon hydro and placed them on a gravel strip we watched the carp come in and destroy the hnv baits (the carp are highly pressured and very rig aware) but when all visible boilies were gone the carp continued to feed on the area attracted by those heavy liquids still laced on the lakebed. That's the point, they are heavy, sticky and lay low on the floor just where your hook will be. One other thing, the ph. Do a simple test on hydro liquids and you will see that some are very acidic ph 4/5.......that in itself is a investigative trigger in my opinion. Lastly, what is the most attractive thing in liquid???? Another liquid!!
I won't make a bait or go fishing without liquids
In reply to Post #15
I personally wouldn't be daft enough to write something off because of a short term no gain. I've found liquids made a pretty substantial difference in my own angling. I've always been of the idea never fix something that isn't broken, to the point I ignored all my closest friends success using the same bait as me, (high quality fishmeals) heavily doused in a liquid with the same core values and quality. If I could turn back time I'd of used it from the beginning, if you use it right, and give the bait consistent treatment before you go, rather than just sling it on you will without a doubt notice a difference.
With regards to baiting application come the cooler weather, I find natural bait comes into its own, particularly on the waters I fish, low stock, circuit waters after a summer of getting boilies thrown at the left right and centre it can be a real edge. Casters, hemp, tigers, maggots, carp often begin harvesting the last of the real naturals in the lake anyway as the water begins to cool, trying to mimick what they are already tuned into can lead to good results on pressured waters. Good thing with it aswell, it's a pain in the arse using them, keeping it all fresh, going weekly to pick up, so is often overlooked and despite what results you have most can't be bothered with the aggro.
I personally wouldn't be daft enough to write something off because of a short term no gain. I've found liquids made a pretty substantial difference in my own angling. I've always been of the idea never fix something that isn't broken, to the point I ignored all my closest friends success using the same bait as me, (high quality fishmeals) heavily doused in a liquid with the same core values and quality. If I could turn back time I'd of used it from the beginning, if you use it right, and give the bait consistent treatment before you go, rather than just sling it on you will without a doubt notice a difference.
With regards to baiting application come the cooler weather, I find natural bait comes into its own, particularly on the waters I fish, low stock, circuit waters after a summer of getting boilies thrown at the left right and centre it can be a real edge. Casters, hemp, tigers, maggots, carp often begin harvesting the last of the real naturals in the lake anyway as the water begins to cool, trying to mimick what they are already tuned into can lead to good results on pressured waters. Good thing with it aswell, it's a pain in the arse using them, keeping it all fresh, going weekly to pick up, so is often overlooked and despite what results you have most can't be bothered with the aggro.
In reply to Post #18
Interesting, maybe thats it, i wasn't using hydro liquids. Apologies for my dismissive tone, Im going to order some and report back.
Whats good, british aqua feeds, BW Liquid fish?
Interesting, maybe thats it, i wasn't using hydro liquids. Apologies for my dismissive tone, Im going to order some and report back.
Whats good, british aqua feeds, BW Liquid fish?
For the ignorant amongst us can you tell me what makes a liquid 'Hydro'? I can see for example that most of DNA's spod syrup range is 'Hydro' but what does that actually mean? Is it just branding in their case?
In reply to Post #22
Bacarel tuna or the salmigo are spot on imo.
My preference is the tuna. Very thick and salty.
Bacarel tuna or the salmigo are spot on imo.
My preference is the tuna. Very thick and salty.
In reply to Post #23
Hydro is short for hydrolysate - what that is exactly would probably be better explained by those down thread.
Hydro is short for hydrolysate - what that is exactly would probably be better explained by those down thread.
In reply to Post #22
Perhaps I should have clarified that I was predominantly on about hydrolysed animal-based liquids!
“Liquids” to me means a liquid derived from things like liver, crustacians, fish etc. I forget that there's all manner of artificial liquids like the goo these days.
My apologies.
As said before, Bacarel Express is your best option in my opinion.
Shore crab, tuna, and salmon are great options. The shrimp is good too although not as impressive on paper but the fish certainly don't seem to mind and I think there's often more to offer from these liquids than just the protein content
Perhaps I should have clarified that I was predominantly on about hydrolysed animal-based liquids!
“Liquids” to me means a liquid derived from things like liver, crustacians, fish etc. I forget that there's all manner of artificial liquids like the goo these days.
My apologies.
As said before, Bacarel Express is your best option in my opinion.
Shore crab, tuna, and salmon are great options. The shrimp is good too although not as impressive on paper but the fish certainly don't seem to mind and I think there's often more to offer from these liquids than just the protein content
In reply to Post #18
Be interested to know your geeky testing methods?
Be interested to know your geeky testing methods?
In reply to Post #26
Cheers. What about essential baits liquid foods, any good? My goldfish seem to love it!
Cheers. What about essential baits liquid foods, any good? My goldfish seem to love it!
In reply to Post #28
In reply to Post #28
I've never tried their liquid foods.
Their thaumatin b is good though
I've never tried their liquid foods.
Their thaumatin b is good though
In reply to Post #28
You're better off going to bacarel or baf mate imo.
You'll get a diluted version and pay carp tax with the known brands mate.
I've had pb's this season on the bacarel tuna diluted with squid brand sauce.
It's works out around £3L.
No brainer for me and it consistently produces.
Tight lines.
You're better off going to bacarel or baf mate imo.
You'll get a diluted version and pay carp tax with the known brands mate.
I've had pb's this season on the bacarel tuna diluted with squid brand sauce.
It's works out around £3L.
No brainer for me and it consistently produces.
Tight lines.
In reply to Post #31
I presume you're talking about glugging and coating your free offerings?
I presume you're talking about glugging and coating your free offerings?
In reply to Post #31
I've just had a quick look at the baracel stuff (specifically Tuna). I'm assuming that these liquids are a lot thicker and more concentrated than the carp branded ones and should be diluted before use?
I've just had a quick look at the baracel stuff (specifically Tuna). I'm assuming that these liquids are a lot thicker and more concentrated than the carp branded ones and should be diluted before use?
In reply to Post #32
Yep. I'll air dry then rehydrate with the liquid. It's been working very well for me.
Yep. I'll air dry then rehydrate with the liquid. It's been working very well for me.
In reply to Post #33
Yes the tuna is very thick and sticky, it's great stuff. It'll coat your freebies well but I've had my best results diluting it with the fish sauce.
I warm up the tuna and fish sauce in a pan ( don't do this when the missus is home ) and rehydrate the freebies after I've air dried them.
Just before they go out I'll give them a small coat of the undiluted tuna.
Yes the tuna is very thick and sticky, it's great stuff. It'll coat your freebies well but I've had my best results diluting it with the fish sauce.
I warm up the tuna and fish sauce in a pan ( don't do this when the missus is home ) and rehydrate the freebies after I've air dried them.
Just before they go out I'll give them a small coat of the undiluted tuna.
In reply to Post #35
Good to know. When we're saying fish sauce I'm assuming we're talking a supermarket fish sauce rather then another Baracel product? What ratio has worked for you if you don't mind me asking? 1:3 hydro to fish sauce?
Good to know. When we're saying fish sauce I'm assuming we're talking a supermarket fish sauce rather then another Baracel product? What ratio has worked for you if you don't mind me asking? 1:3 hydro to fish sauce?
In reply to Post #36
Squid Brand fish sauce. Excellent product
Squid Brand fish sauce. Excellent product
In reply to Post #33
That's why the carp branded products aren't all they are cracked up to be.
That's why the carp branded products aren't all they are cracked up to be.
In reply to Post #36
Squid brand fish sauce. You'll pick it from most Asian supermarkets.
Ratio wise it's probably about that mate. Any excess liquid goes back in the bottle.
Squid brand fish sauce. You'll pick it from most Asian supermarkets.
Ratio wise it's probably about that mate. Any excess liquid goes back in the bottle.
In reply to Post #39
Thanks Just seen Sainsburys do it online, I'll sneak that on to the delivery order before the mrs notices...
Thanks
Just seen Sainsburys do it online, I'll sneak that on to the delivery order before the mrs notices...
In reply to Post #40
Yes. JS seem to be the only major supermarket who carry it now. Tesco used to but seem to have delisted it. Otherwise it's a trip to the Asian supermarket.
Yes. JS seem to be the only major supermarket who carry it now. Tesco used to but seem to have delisted it. Otherwise it's a trip to the Asian supermarket.
In reply to Post #41
Asda still sell it
Asda still sell it
Does anyone use particle after summer/in autumn? Or just boilies for offerings?
In reply to Post #43
Sweetcorn, at less than a pound a KG frozen from the supermarkets it makes a good cheap bait that has worked for centuries, a lot easier than messing around with Maize.
Sweetcorn, at less than a pound a KG frozen from the supermarkets it makes a good cheap bait that has worked for centuries, a lot easier than messing around with Maize.
In reply to Post #7
Having listened to an episode from Sam and friend on bait, I must say, it was interesting to a point. Clearly Sam and his friend (Pete, I think), know an incredible amount about making bait which for me, right now in my journey is too advanced. All the ingredients they talk about just went over my head and made no sense, although interesting all the same, to a point where I found myself lost in their conversation whilst driving and trying to listen to what they are talking about.
A podcast I did find very useful for this subject and one I will be revisiting again is the Thinking Tackle episode #22 with Simon Scott and Mark Bryant. The way in which they articulate themselves I found to be just what I was looking for. I'm not a huge Korda fan like some, nor am I a fan of any particular brand, but I find these TT podcasts really well put together.
At risk of diverging on to podcasts and away from bait, the aforementioned TT podcast covers a lot of what this thread was created for. Bait approach in Autumn.
Thanks for everyone's input, help and advice.
Having listened to an episode from Sam and friend on bait, I must say, it was interesting to a point. Clearly Sam and his friend (Pete, I think), know an incredible amount about making bait which for me, right now in my journey is too advanced. All the ingredients they talk about just went over my head and made no sense, although interesting all the same, to a point where I found myself lost in their conversation whilst driving and trying to listen to what they are talking about.
A podcast I did find very useful for this subject and one I will be revisiting again is the Thinking Tackle episode #22 with Simon Scott and Mark Bryant. The way in which they articulate themselves I found to be just what I was looking for. I'm not a huge Korda fan like some, nor am I a fan of any particular brand, but I find these TT podcasts really well put together.
At risk of diverging on to podcasts and away from bait, the aforementioned TT podcast covers a lot of what this thread was created for. Bait approach in Autumn.
Thanks for everyone's input, help and advice.
In reply to Post #45
Thanks Nelbow.
Maybe we should do a bait basics episode 
Thanks Nelbow.
Maybe we should do a bait basics episode
In reply to Post #46
That would be great
To learn to walk before running and all that...
I'll soon be buying and burning out drills like you and your pal in no time, no doubt But for now some basics or less advanced techniques that can instil some confidence and guidance to then allow the experiments to take place. Thanks 
That would be great
To learn to walk before running and all that...
I'll soon be buying and burning out drills like you and your pal in no time, no doubt
But for now some basics or less advanced techniques that can instil some confidence and guidance to then allow the experiments to take place. Thanks
In reply to Post #46
hi what is the podcast called? Pm if prefer thanks
hi what is the podcast called? Pm if prefer thanks
In reply to Post #26
You mention using hydro as a bait soak, would freezing the bait after this treatment have any negative effect on adding the hydro?
You mention using hydro as a bait soak, would freezing the bait after this treatment have any negative effect on adding the hydro?
In reply to Post #48
The Carp Angler Chronicles
The Carp Angler Chronicles
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