So, how best to get around this problem?

After loosing fish that I'm unable to free up that have wrapped themselves in or around heavy weedbeds and having to pull for a break - no boats, I thought I'd throw it out there and see how any of you guys have solved this problem.

Now I've been racking my brain to come up with a solution, but everything I think of has flaws. The best solution I can think of is to fish later on in the year when the weed [not eel grass but long stringy stuff that's like straight matted hair, well sort of.] Up until now I've been using mono leaders, helicopter rigs and Korda Heli Safe thingy.

The reason I prefer to use mono leaders is that if a fish goes into this type of weed and the line parts, unlike braid which if you chuck it in the edge, it looks like a certain death trap for a fish, mono would seem easier for a fish to escape. I'm still not sold on the Korda Heli Safe as if a fish gets stuck in weed and the lead falls of, how is the fish going to get off then line when the Heli Safe is next to its face and nothing to grip it and let it travel up the line and away safely, surely-ish a lead attached gives it more of a chance to get free?

What I suppose I'm looking for is something that cuts the weed -->braid<--? I've heard people mention braid cuts through stuff, is that right? As I've already said, I'm very reluctant to use braid as it looks deadly; bad enough loosing a spomb with braid, it's just a matted mess in the water and is deadly for anything that might get trapped in it.

There might be another solution, heavy line, like mono that I can get to float above the weed and is heavy enough to winch a fish in, say something that breaks at 30lb straight through?

I don't know, what do you guys think?

I'd agree regarding the helisafe. With the lead gone there is no way for the rig to slide up and off the broken line.

The flip side is that dropping the lead may encourage the fish to rise up above the weed - although I haven't personally found this to be true.

Can you find any clear spots/areas to fish?

In reply to Post #1
How many fish have been wrapped up in the weed, when you say, after loosing fish your unable to free up, you've had to pull for a break? Are those fish now tethered, or don't you know?

In reply to Post #1
The best way to get around that problem is don't fish there, it's not safe to if you can't land fish safely. Hearing people say pulling for a break makes me cringe

In reply to Post #1
If you can't find any clear spots could you use a weed rake to make your own spot?
Or used a load of particle to try get a spot cleared up.

In reply to Post #1
50lb power pro.

In reply to Post #4
100%
And no "winching" fish in.

If you use braid, you still need a mono/fluorocarbon leader or very well fixed tubing or you'll cut the fish to bits. So that's a leader knot or end of tubing to collect weed, as said losing the lead is a recipe for disaster too and most gadgets that allow it are magnets for more weed to collect.
No unselfish way to do it unfortunately but some sort of float to keep the line out of the water and going directly down to the rig will minimise the risk a little. As will terminal tackle that's as smooth as possible for weed to slide off. The real skill is knowing where and when it is safe to angle for fish, not having gear strong enough to skull drag them in.
You could intercept a fish on a patrol route and catch it in quick time with some thinking... or tether half a dozen and get lucky once or twice to feed the old ego with a photo

In reply to Post #4
I would have to agree.
My default position is that if there are doubts in my mind of being able to land a fish safely and if there is any chance of causing it potential trauma or even danger then i won't fish there.
There's a lake that i fish fairly regularly and in one particular swim when the Pads are up this time of the year there is a lovely clear spot just bigger than a dustbin lid in one set of the Pads which can be viewed easily from the opposite out of bounds side of the lake.
The fish can be viewed regularly in there, it would require a very accurate cast and i reckon a bite would be guaranteed.
However it would be criminal to try and haul a fish through several sets of Pads between there and the net, so i choose never to fish the spot until later in the year when all the Pads have died right down.

The OP is right to bring this subject up for discussion as everyone has an opinion.
But for me im not a fish at any cost Angler and so in situations like he describes i choose not to fish there.

In reply to Post #4
Mate, it literally traumatizes me. I did go out swimming for it to try and untangle it from the weed, but I'm not the strongest swimmer and there was no-one around should I have got into trouble. As best as I tried, I just was never going to get that fish out.

In reply to Post #1
Use strong abrasion proof tackle, fish as close to the near bank as possible, that way, presentation is simply and less weed to play them through.
Rake some areas heavily, and bait with something cheap, pellets, various particle, maize, groats pigeon conditioner, let the birdlife, nuisance fish and carp thin it out for you.

In reply to Post #3
Two fish. One fish had a leader on it, the one I went in for, the other didn't have a leader and snapped at the knot as best as I can make out, so just swimming around with a 5" rig.

Just to clear things up:

I had a fish a few weeks back out of the same swim that wasn't a great deal of trouble getting in, this time (1st fish) the weed must have gotten a load denser (couldn't see how thick due to the chop on the water and overcast on Friday Evening... rigs came back when plumbing so assumed all was good.

In total, 2 weeded fish, one hook pull and nothing landed on a difficult water this weekend. Where I was fishing this weekend is not worth the risk. I'm going fish the deep water where there's no weed as the safety of the fish come above all else, even if that means I don't catch a great deal, even at all.

I've not used those Korda Heli Safe things until recently and it's been playing on my mind a hell of a lot. I think for waters that have got bits of candy floss or the occasional bit of Canadian, that's ok, although, dropping any lead is not the one in my book as it's a deadly poisonous material. As for fish coming to the surface, I think that's a myth, though I'll gladly be proven wrong.

I'm sat here, just got home and I'm gutted. A hook pull I can handle, though it might have torn the mouth,.but a fish in weed, on a leader with one of those Heli Safe things, that messes my head up. Do think the fish was pulled tight to the back of the weedbed as it was taking line when the rod was left on the rest on a slack line. I just hope it's able to get rid of the leader.

We're all the result of our experience so here's mine, apologies for the length. I've been fishing 1 water predominantly now for around 8 years...because I like it. It does however have dense Japanese Lillies from bank to around 20' out where the waters too deep for it. This isn't the thickest in strands but get a few together and your in real trouble. The pegs are usually clear in front but to the sides...hmmm. As ip100 said, if it's not safe to fish then don't, fish at all costs does have implications.

Get you rig/lead set up as streamlined as possible, if the weed can get a grip on anything it will. Inline leads, drop off probably preferable, barbless hooks. I wouldn't use braid though it would make sense but if a fish were to roll on it, it could be a disaster. I did use to fish tubing above the lead but now I don't. Fish tight lines, your asking for trouble giving anything away to weed. I also wouldn't go over 15lb line, if your pulling for a break you don't want to make it that difficult. Get the fishes head up as soon as possible, it's much easier to pull through at the top than at the bottom, apply steady pressure especially when snagged, often the fishes movements on a tight line will help to free it. If badly snagged and unsure of the fish being on give it some line and wait, not enough for it to plough further away though. As the weed travels toward the Carp I've often found it covers the head and the Carp goes docile, often it's on even though you'd swear it wasn't.

Inevitably you will have to pull for a break, it's bound to happen and using barbless means the fish may get off more easily before you do this. This season I've seen fish stuck on a single strand of weed no more than 6 feet out in 2' of water, they just roll off the hook, nice to see.

As a back story and I'm sure the owner won't mind me posting this. The fishery in question opened as a day ticket but was soon shut. A chap lost a load of fish to the weed so came back with what the owner described to me as 50lb class sea line when he checked. He decided to haul the fish through the weed, the results were and for the fish still are horrific. I still catch fish damaged by that bloke every now and then, the only plus is that they can still feed and albeit slowly are putting on weight, I feel so sorry for them though :-(

Thanks Vossy for the post

When it comes to line diameter/breaking strain, I don't know what the best answer is. They're all deadly to one degree or another. Say for instance that there's a weakness just above your reel and you're fishing at 100 yards and there's no weed, just the line parts, whatever the strength line you're using is, that's 100 yards of line a fish is dragging about. I do think that braid is a death sentence in this regard.

The safest I can think of - please correct me as you see fit and have a better alternative -- obviously don't fish a water with any dense weed - is mono straight through (depending on sharp bars or muscle beds) and a helicopter/chod setup with the lead tied directly to the line.

Barbless hooks, I don't know. I'm sure it's been debated on here before: I'm of the opinion that a barbless has the potential to cause mouth damage, though equally, a fish with a barbed hook that's stuck and rips it's face to pieces as Vossy has illustrated could well be much worse?

Only recently have I been using leaders, not so much for range but to help stopping the line from being chaffed as I'd noticed that the weed has a gritty texture to it, the reason for the grit? Maybe the grit is anything suspended in the water column that gets trapped in the weed, like a sort of filter medium.

In reply to Post #14
Hi, great post, but what are Japanese Lilies, never seen or heard of them betore.

Sorry for going off on a tangent, just trying to visualise the example you are talking about.

In reply to Post #17
Probably nymphoides peltata, also known as fringed water lily. The little b@stards.

Heavy but sensible tackle and dont pull their heads off.
Tough 0.38 - 0.40mm mono mainline, no leaders or tubing. Lead clip set up to drop the lead when the fish hits weed, or an inline drop off. Strong microbarbed hooks, but dont pull like an idiot. Just fish to the nearest clear spot you can.

In reply to Post #1
Fish as close in as you can, it really is that simple with a no boat rule, the further out in, over or round thick heavy weed then the more chance of problems & losses.

Rake a few areas? Different line angles into certain areas? Heavy pre-baiting to clear areas?

You want strong line 15lb minimum.

In reply to Post #19
Surely it has to be barbless in a weedy area to allow the fish the best possible chance of shedding the hook in the event of a tethering. Personally I always use barbless but can't see the rational for specifying a microbarb in a weedy situation.

In reply to Post #21
I suppose it's a toss up between the theory a barbless hook could move around more than a barb when the angle of the line/pull changes which could cause excess flesh damage; and a barb not being able to work it's own way free.
In the great scheme of things if a lake owner knowingly allows angling in heavy weed/snags/pads and doesn't allow or provide access to a boat then he or she is not only failing to protect their investment, but not considering the actual welfare of the fish; which should be the main factor.

In reply to Post #22
In the great scheme of things if a lake owner knowingly allows angling in heavy weed/snags/pads and doesn't allow or provide access to a boat then he or she is not only failing to protect their investment, but not considering the actual welfare of the fish; which should be the main factor.

I totally agree noj.

Using baseless hooks in a proper weedy water is almost a waste of time in my experience.

In reply to Post #22
You are right, thing is I can only guess that it comes down to a liability issue and it's simple just to impose a no boat rule?

In reply to Post #24
Then they should make every effort to remove whatever makes fishing dangerous.
Catch and earn at all costs are one and the same

In reply to Post #24
They should account for insurance in the ticket price or mandate that members have their own insurance imo.

In reply to Post #21
Went horseshoe went barbless the fish mouth condition deteriorated rapidly due to fish becoming weeded and anglers pulling harder to try and maintain contact and get the fish through the weed.
I have fished some very weedy waters and if fish hit the weed it isnt a panic as they are unlikely to come off if the lead clip is set to dump the lead. Steady pressure will bring the fish through the weed.

In reply to Post #18
@ 17& 18 I've just searched it, yes those look like the ones....right buggers.

The last 18 months I've been using Shimano Technium Black in 15lb for it's lower stretch, got to say I like it although a bit wirey. Also changed hooks on said water from a 8 straight to a 6 Krank, the 6 moves less and has a great hook hold, might even move it up to a size 4 as even that's not too big in this pattern.

In reply to Post #27
Bad angling rather than a barbless hook to blame in that situation surely.

Although I'm not keen at all on braid, can anyone confirm that it scythes weed/vegitation?

In reply to Post #29
50/50.
Before the swap to barbless things were fine, and a couple of years after barbless were scrapped most of the fish had healed.
Barbless created a situation due to the weed and anglers frustrations at losing 4 out of 5 fish.

As already mentioned. Bow string tight lines, rod pointed directly at spot, light bobbins, reel locked up. Don't give them any line or they will just tear through more weed beds. Don't fish at range. Use as lighter lead as possible. No more knots than are a absolutely necessary.

If it gets really snagged just put the rod down on the rests, slacken a little and see if the fish moves on it's own.

Here's a thing to try the next time you are leading about in weed, it still fries my brain. Chuck a lead into weed on your marker and when you they to retrieve it, it will lock up and you'll drag a big ball of weed in with the rod hooped over, pumping it in. Now chuck the same lead back into the same weed, but instead, keep the line bow string tight, rod flat and gently walk backwards as if pulling for a break and the lead will pull through much easier. Sometimess coming in with hardly any weed on it compared to the first method. Gets you wondering just how thick the weed actually is and whether line angle and the power of the rod have a lot to do with it.

Been a few years since I fished a really weedy water.

The first rule was always if the weed is so thick you can't safely land a fish, don't fish there.
The strange thing is that some swims with lilies covering much of the surface were actually ok to fish. The leaf stalks are fragile, break away if the line cuts through them, and the surface covering was more than what was underwater. Don't fish over them, but up to them.
Assess every swim. If in doubt, then no.

I found inline leads the best answer, a distance shape, no shouldered leads, and a neoprene sleeve or rubber tulip bead over the mainline to hooklink swivel.
Weed does not jam up on that as much as on lead clips or run rings.

Don't use leaders in weed, if there is ever a break-off, pulling for a break, the knot closest to the rod tip is usually the one that breaks. With a leader that leaves the fish pulling lead, leader and rig.
Tying direct to the hooklink, if you pull for a break, going at that knot, the rig is the only thing that the carp is trailing.

Keep pressure on the fish, don't give them slack, keep them fighting, that alone will often prevent them getting weeded up.
If they do get weeded, put the rod back on the rests, put the indicator back on. Many fish after some time will quite happily swim out again and you can play it normally.
If they don't or a boat is handy, (as long as someone else is on the water), get above the fish in the boat. You can often remove weed stalks that the line is going through, gradually freeing the fish.

I hate to say it, at some point, a fish is going to get you so weeded up you are likely to have to handline line or pull for a break. Do NOT pull through with the rod. Tighten up, wrap a towel or use gardening gloves over your hands. Then wrap the line from hand to elbow. Sometimes the fish will suddenly come free, other times the fish has already managed to transfer the hook into lily roots, so you will be pulling for a break.


The barbed vs barbless debate:
Barbed hooks can get weed strands preventing good hooking. Strands get caught on the barb, the hook does not get taken in properly.

Barbless hooks hook better, but may wobble in the mouth during the fight, cutting from the point.

In reply to Post #33
If they do get weeded, put the rod back on the rests, put the indicator back on. Many fish after some time will quite happily swim out again and you can play it normally.

That is an absolute last resort for me. They then have free rain to dig themselves even deeper. On a number of occasions I've had them swim out and you just pull them back into the weed bed as the line is pinned wherever they were sulking. Even if they do swim out I'd hardly say you can play it normally. It's critical to keep them moving or you'll be back to square one before you know it.

Best bet if they're weeded up is to keep steady pressure on imo. It can take a while, but they normally come eventually. You'll feel the fronds giving way, then you'll gain an inch or two, then it's game on.

In reply to Post #34
That's never worked for me either.
If it's gone solid I keep pressure on for half hour or so, if there's still no movement I'm reaching for the spod rod and weed rake.
Can be chaos if the fish is still on but I'd rather try and get the rig back than pull for a break. If the fish is still on its better to have some help

In reply to Post #35
Totally agree with the two posts below re putting the rod down.

Keep a bend in the rod and be patient. It can take a long old time but they almost always decide to move. The second you feel movement keep the pressure on and keep them moving..

I'd also argue that you should always avoid pulling for a break in weed. If I even had 0.1% hope that a fish was still on I'd never even consider it... Do absolutely anything other than that - rake as Duggs suggested, go out on a mat, wade out if possible, get up as high as possible (stand on a vehicle, climb a tree etc).

I'd say that in weed, there's almost always a fish still on the end if it's stuck. In my experience, the second the fish is off, the rig will suddenly come free fairly easily. Snags and lilies are a bit different.

In reply to Post #36
I'd also argue that you should always avoid pulling for a break in weed. If I even had 0.1% hope that a fish was still on I'd never even consider it...

Snap

When the rod is solid it means the fish is still on 99% of the time imo. Once it's off the rig will pull straight through any weed. It's very, very rarely a bare rig will have snagged on something (other than a full on snag) that badly that it cannot be retrieved. Therefore 99% of the time when guys pull for a break they are pulling at that kipper imo.

In reply to Post #36
I've had a cat that took me two hours to land. Weeded me up solid. Put the rod on rests. Twenty mins later off it went again. Into another weed bed a bit closer in. Solid again. Back on rests etc etc until eventually it was in close enough to play it normally in the margin.

Luck of the draw I guess

In reply to Post #38
**** that mate, I've had to get the boat out for 12 lbers before lol, wouldn't fancy doing it with a cat.

In reply to Post #39
What made it worse was I got the run at 2am. I was knackered by the time I landed the poxy thing.

In reply to Post #39
Try waking a bailiff, getting a boat and finding a 5lb eel at 3 am

I thought I was going to have swim back to shore

In reply to Post #40

In reply to Post #42
And after all that it bit me when I was taking the hook out.

In reply to Post #44
That sounds so nuts it's got to work

In reply to Post #45

In reply to Post #46

I'll try some slap bass on my next sea trip

In reply to Post #48
Do you remember that article in Carpworld, 'Mark King's Guide to Weeded Carp'

I didn't time exactly how long the fish was on for, at a guess, maybe 2.5/3 hours? I tried all sorts, just giving it gentle pressure, then a bit more, then to the point where I thought nah, that's far too much, it's not shifting and went back to constant gentle pressure. I don't know how many times I tried it, I put the rod on the rest, slackened the line off and left it on the buzzer. It did take line, so picked the rod up, a few pings of from weed fronds and solid again.

I had Dave Lanes' experience of Horton going through my head when he mentioned he left the rod on the rest all night and the fish eventually moved. Not that I was being impatient, I kept thinking that the fish was stuck hard and wasn't going to come out. I could well have had it wrong and that the fish was just stuck at the back of the weedbed for all I know.

I got to the point of thinking I've got to go in for this fish, it's the only thing I can do to at least free it even if don't land it and the hook falls out. Like I mentioned earlier, I bailed out and got out of the water as no one was around in case I got tangled up in weed and drowned.

I gave it too many beans trying to force it out thinking I've exhausted all my options and was left with not a lot else to try and then the line parted. I didn't have the rod pointed towards the fish, walking back or anything silly like that like you would if you'd cast into a tree, it was hooped over trying to get it out. The line was 16lb Pro Clear and didn't show any signs of any damage and can only assume it broke at the knot probably weakened by the pressure on it and compressing it to the point where it gave way. The ironic thing in all of this is that only the night before I'd spooled up with brand new 15lb Syncro XT, would it have got it out of the weedbed instead of my less than 9 months old Pro Clear? Who knows.

I really hope that both fish has been able to get rid of the hooks, especially the first as it would be trailing a leader behind it that could well end it's life; what a terrible thought and all because of my actions however well intentioned.

In reply to Post #44
Part of me wants this to be 100% true as it sounds like a funky little trick.
The other half of me wants it to be a wind up to get us all plucking away at our lines

In reply to Post #51

In reply to Post #52