Right, I was wondering if anyone could help me out and tell me how to figure out the protein and oil content etc within the mix. I am using Pete b recipe that BB kindly put up in that thread. The mix is as follows:
300 LT94
150 Lamlac
220 HiPro Soya Bean Meal
150 Course Ground Semo
70 Fine Ground Semo
70 Wheatgerm
35 Chilli
75 Vecon
100 Belachan Grated Block
30 ml Ground Nut Oil
6 Citric Acid.
6 Large Eggs
The only thing I am adding in 50ml of squid hydro. So how do I go about finding the percentage of different contents within the bait?. Thanks lads
300 LT94
150 Lamlac
220 HiPro Soya Bean Meal
150 Course Ground Semo
70 Fine Ground Semo
70 Wheatgerm
35 Chilli
75 Vecon
100 Belachan Grated Block
30 ml Ground Nut Oil
6 Citric Acid.
6 Large Eggs
The only thing I am adding in 50ml of squid hydro. So how do I go about finding the percentage of different contents within the bait?. Thanks lads
In reply to Post #1
PM sent
PM sent
In reply to Post #1
Why do you need to know? Just use it. It works.
Why do you need to know? Just use it. It works.
Thanks lee top man PM replied. Cambs Is not that I need to know it's that I would like to know. If I am ever going to gain any knowledge about bait making knowing protein,lipids,oils,amino acids, content is of importance to that process in my view. To use something just because it works without the knowledge of why I might as well pick a bait up off the shelf. I started rolling bait to get an understanding of what goes in and why knowledge is what I am after not just a boilie recipe that works.
In reply to Post #1
Would replacing lamlac with Acid/Rennet casien improve the bait?
Would replacing lamlac with Acid/Rennet casien improve the bait?
In reply to Post #4
Fair play to you
Fair play to you
In reply to Post #5
IMHO not really, just up the costs.
All the Nutritional aspects like the FLAA are covered by the LT94 and the Hipro Soya bean meal.
IMHO not really, just up the costs.
All the Nutritional aspects like the FLAA are covered by the LT94 and the Hipro Soya bean meal.
In reply to Post #7
This is assuming carp are only interested in fulfilling their FLAAs and taste doesnt matter 🙂
This is assuming carp are only interested in fulfilling their FLAAs and taste doesnt matter 🙂
In reply to Post #8
Taste matters, a lot. But that is a topic in itself.
But Pete's mix is a proven catcher and nutritionally balanced.
My outlook being on the question asked, why would I replace a sweet tasting, creamy, soluble ingredient like Lamlac that carp like, for a better quality milk protein which is bland tasting, mostly insoluble, more expensive with no oil or fat content, or vitamins and minerals like Casein ?
I would only do it for nutritional purposes.
Taste matters, a lot. But that is a topic in itself.
But Pete's mix is a proven catcher and nutritionally balanced.
My outlook being on the question asked, why would I replace a sweet tasting, creamy, soluble ingredient like Lamlac that carp like, for a better quality milk protein which is bland tasting, mostly insoluble, more expensive with no oil or fat content, or vitamins and minerals like Casein ?
I would only do it for nutritional purposes.
In reply to Post #1
Hi mate
Instead of the squid hydro, use liquid E at the recommended levels.
The base mix you've put up is okay 👌
Hi mate
Instead of the squid hydro, use liquid E at the recommended levels.
The base mix you've put up is okay 👌
Thanks for the input lads. Hawkman is liquid E an enzyme liquid?. I am not very clued up on enzymes why would this be better than using the squid hydro?.
In reply to Post #11
It contains enzymes that become active depending on the temperature. It has to be refrigerated to deactivate it.
There is a high yield of soluble amino acids in this liquid, these are derived from marine and vegetable proteins.
Glad to be of help 👍
It contains enzymes that become active depending on the temperature. It has to be refrigerated to deactivate it.
There is a high yield of soluble amino acids in this liquid, these are derived from marine and vegetable proteins.
Glad to be of help 👍
In reply to Post #11
Although bear in mind one thing. The idea of Peters mix was to produce a quality mix at low cost. One litre of liquid E is almost the same price as 5 litres of squid hydro from BAF....
Although bear in mind one thing. The idea of Peters mix was to produce a quality mix at low cost. One litre of liquid E is almost the same price as 5 litres of squid hydro from BAF....
In reply to Post #11
I wouldn't bother with liquid e personally, I've found it it be rubbish stuff. More than once I've had fish all over me and only ever had bites on rods which I wasn't using the stuff. Never even managed a bite using it, even on a runs water
I wouldn't bother with liquid e personally, I've found it it be rubbish stuff. More than once I've had fish all over me and only ever had bites on rods which I wasn't using the stuff. Never even managed a bite using it, even on a runs water
In reply to Post #14
Out of curiosity, did you use it in your free bait or hookbaits? Or both?
Out of curiosity, did you use it in your free bait or hookbaits? Or both?
In reply to Post #15
I used it in little sticks as recommended by Dean when he first came out with it mostly. I have included it into my baits but again found it made them way less effective so took it out and went back to fish hydro
I used it in little sticks as recommended by Dean when he first came out with it mostly. I have included it into my baits but again found it made them way less effective so took it out and went back to fish hydro
Does the pete b mix need a liquid food added or does it not need any to improve it and if so what would you guys go for? Sorry OP for hijacking your thread but thought it might be of interest to you as well.
In reply to Post #17
Stick with the original oil/vecon/belachan. Tried and tested over a long period.
Stick with the original oil/vecon/belachan. Tried and tested over a long period.
In reply to Post #18
cheers mate
cheers mate
Think I will give the liquid E a miss don't want to be meshing up baits because there going soft really quick especially if I am leaving them for 48 hours. Would the squid hydro be doing the same job as the vecon?. Been a big fan of squid hydro but if it won't add anything I might as well save the money.
In reply to Post #20
Pretty much yes, both are sources of pre-digested proteins a d free AA's. Personally I've found Vecon a bit hit and miss, tends to work well on some places and not on others. I prefer the fish type hydro's (salmon, krill, squid Tuna etc) but I don't think it makes too much difference. If you are on a budget, have a look at the Shrimp hydro from Bacarel
Pretty much yes, both are sources of pre-digested proteins a d free AA's. Personally I've found Vecon a bit hit and miss, tends to work well on some places and not on others. I prefer the fish type hydro's (salmon, krill, squid Tuna etc) but I don't think it makes too much difference. If you are on a budget, have a look at the Shrimp hydro from Bacarel
In reply to Post #20
The squid hydro has quite a decent percentage of peptides, etc. The enzymatic hydrolysis process in regards to heat and ph is within the parameters of a good yield threshold.
I don't know what enzymes are used , but what I do know is, that this product is for the agricultural market,
Amino acids can be denatured from a chemoreception perspective.
The same with the enzymatic hydrolysis process in regards to a ALL fish hydrolysates. These Liquids are produced from all the unwanted fish that are caught up in the trawlers out at sea.
They are put into a huge container on the trawler. The first process is to mash it all the unwanted fish bits. Then isopropanol is added to rid the mixture of fat.
The fat free mashed bits are then made ph and heat friendly to allow the abrasive enzymes to perform their function.
The fish hydro is then put in containers in readiness to sell to agriculture and aquaculture market.
Please don't get confused between aquaculture and chemoreception....
Mostly all the said top brands are cheating you all.
The squid hydro has quite a decent percentage of peptides, etc. The enzymatic hydrolysis process in regards to heat and ph is within the parameters of a good yield threshold.
I don't know what enzymes are used , but what I do know is, that this product is for the agricultural market,
Amino acids can be denatured from a chemoreception perspective.
The same with the enzymatic hydrolysis process in regards to a ALL fish hydrolysates. These Liquids are produced from all the unwanted fish that are caught up in the trawlers out at sea.
They are put into a huge container on the trawler. The first process is to mash it all the unwanted fish bits. Then isopropanol is added to rid the mixture of fat.
The fat free mashed bits are then made ph and heat friendly to allow the abrasive enzymes to perform their function.
The fish hydro is then put in containers in readiness to sell to agriculture and aquaculture market.
Please don't get confused between aquaculture and chemoreception....
Mostly all the said top brands are cheating you all.
In reply to Post #22
There are a couple of exceptions.
L030 and as NW has referred to in regards to Bacarel Express.
Not cheap though.
The Shrimp Hydro is very interesting though. 😜
There are a couple of exceptions.
L030 and as NW has referred to in regards to Bacarel Express.
Not cheap though.
The Shrimp Hydro is very interesting though. 😜
In reply to Post #23
John... I know Steve at Shoreline makes his own squid and crayfish hydro's... I went for a look about 3 years ago.. Very interesting products.
John... I know Steve at Shoreline makes his own squid and crayfish hydro's... I went for a look about 3 years ago.. Very interesting products.
Thanks hawkman and NW. I have read that the hydros and be denatured during there process. I wanted to include some form of liquid as I don't want all the goodness locked up in the boiling process and my thought was that a liquid would set of food signals sooner after being introduced. I am not massively on a budget if I can make a bait for around 8 quid a kilo I will be happy. I will have a good at the shrimp 👍🏼
In reply to Post #24
Hi NM
I'm not for one minute associating Shore line baits with 99.9% of fish hydros available to the masses.
I've practised enzymatic Hydrolysis to produce predigested fish and milks. But unless you have the instruments to weigh out the degree of hydrolysis it's anyone's guess...
If I dare to delve a bit deeper... If the correct choice of enzymes are achieved,, specific to receptor sites on the peptide bonds. A greater yield of soluble amino acids can be achieved..
Let me just say to everyone ..Proteolytic enzymes don't attract carp. It's the work they perform that does .. Enzymes are either active of inactive . What governs their activity is heat and ph.This is specific to every individual Enzyme.
Hi NM
I'm not for one minute associating Shore line baits with 99.9% of fish hydros available to the masses.
I've practised enzymatic Hydrolysis to produce predigested fish and milks. But unless you have the instruments to weigh out the degree of hydrolysis it's anyone's guess...
If I dare to delve a bit deeper... If the correct choice of enzymes are achieved,, specific to receptor sites on the peptide bonds. A greater yield of soluble amino acids can be achieved..
Let me just say to everyone ..Proteolytic enzymes don't attract carp. It's the work they perform that does .. Enzymes are either active of inactive . What governs their activity is heat and ph.This is specific to every individual Enzyme.
In reply to Post #25
Hi Jimbo,
Before you buy shrimp hydro from Bacarel, take a look at their Salmino salmon hydro, which is about the same price. The shrimp has 19% protein content, and the Salmino 50 to 53%. The shrimp spec is not detailed for AAs or peptide content, but the Salmino is and looks good with 60% short chain peps which breakdown quicker in the lake. For adding faster amino attraction to your bait, then it's a no contest, the Salmino is far superior.
BB.
Hi Jimbo,
Before you buy shrimp hydro from Bacarel, take a look at their Salmino salmon hydro, which is about the same price. The shrimp has 19% protein content, and the Salmino 50 to 53%. The shrimp spec is not detailed for AAs or peptide content, but the Salmino is and looks good with 60% short chain peps which breakdown quicker in the lake. For adding faster amino attraction to your bait, then it's a no contest, the Salmino is far superior.
BB.
In reply to Post #27
Hi mate
Long time no speak..
He was initially referred to squid hydro ...BAF?..
Hope you are keeping safe
Hi mate
Long time no speak..
He was initially referred to squid hydro ...BAF?..
Hope you are keeping safe
In reply to Post #27
You're right BB, but the Shrimp one is nice, and cheap. I've needed to look at replacing the Krill hydro in my bait, and the Shrimp seems to fit in rather well. Maybe sometime this year, I'll be able to try it!
All good gear, the Bacarel stuff. Good quick service too.
You're right BB, but the Shrimp one is nice, and cheap. I've needed to look at replacing the Krill hydro in my bait, and the Shrimp seems to fit in rather well. Maybe sometime this year, I'll be able to try it!
All good gear, the Bacarel stuff. Good quick service too.
In reply to Post #29
Hi NM
I've used Bacarel shrimp hydro..
The data sheets don't look good from a protein perspective, but highly soluble.
Need to think outside the box with this one 😜
Hi NM
I've used Bacarel shrimp hydro..
The data sheets don't look good from a protein perspective, but highly soluble.
Need to think outside the box with this one 😜
Thanks all. Think it's going to be the salmon oil for The quicker breakdown and AA profile that will suit what I am after thanks
In reply to Post #28
Hi John,
Hope you're keeping OK. I'm fine stuck indoors on lockdown catching up with some reading.
If he was looking at BAF hydro squid, then that is £9.99 for 500 ml and only 27.6% protein and no free delivery.
Bacarel do free delivery and the Salmino is still, by far, the better option.
Ian.
Hi John,
Hope you're keeping OK. I'm fine stuck indoors on lockdown catching up with some reading.
If he was looking at BAF hydro squid, then that is £9.99 for 500 ml and only 27.6% protein and no free delivery.
Bacarel do free delivery and the Salmino is still, by far, the better option.
Ian.
Yes BB I was initially on about squid hydro just checked on BAF and it said 26% protein so I might as well get the salmon it's a far better return for the money
In reply to Post #29
Hi NW,
I had to look for a replacement for the unavailable krill hydro too and I settled for Salmino.
Actually, the Bacarel shrimp hydro is £7.99 for 600 gms and the Salmino is £8.49 for 685 gms so there is little in it for cost.
BB.
Hi NW,
I had to look for a replacement for the unavailable krill hydro too and I settled for Salmino.
Actually, the Bacarel shrimp hydro is £7.99 for 600 gms and the Salmino is £8.49 for 685 gms so there is little in it for cost.
BB.
In reply to Post #33
Hi Jimbo,
Yes, it is called Salmigo, salmon hydro not salmon oil and even better, the delivery is free.
BB.
Hi Jimbo,
Yes, it is called Salmigo, salmon hydro not salmon oil and even better, the delivery is free.
BB.
In reply to Post #34
I was thinking of the 5 litre price BB
I was thinking of the 5 litre price BB
Just got it up mate thanks a lot
In reply to Post #35
is this stuff any good for putting in your spod mix or are there better options.
is this stuff any good for putting in your spod mix or are there better options.
Can put any hydro you want in a spod mix mate. Hydro wheat is something I have used but never really seen much benefit to it. Tiger nut slime is about the best thing I have added to anything really.
In reply to Post #36
Hi NW,
Yes, I see what you mean.
Strange that in the small sizes, 600 gms and 685 gms, the Salmigo is a bit cheaper, but in the 5 kg and 7 kg sizes, the shrimp is just under £2 per kg cheaper.
Doesn't make sense to me, as the salmon is in the larger 7 kg size too.
Another factor for comparison would be their gm to ml densities, but they don't give that info.
BB.
Hi NW,
Yes, I see what you mean.
Strange that in the small sizes, 600 gms and 685 gms, the Salmigo is a bit cheaper, but in the 5 kg and 7 kg sizes, the shrimp is just under £2 per kg cheaper.
Doesn't make sense to me, as the salmon is in the larger 7 kg size too.
Another factor for comparison would be their gm to ml densities, but they don't give that info.
BB.
In reply to Post #40
The smaller versions they sell are usually samples, tasters.
The shrimp hydro is out of stock.
The salmon you mention is proper quality stuff as is all their products, nice and thick, perfect for a summer glug and dust on the outside of the bait
The shore crab is like water and can't say I've persevered with it if I'm honest for this reason
The smaller versions they sell are usually samples, tasters.
The shrimp hydro is out of stock.
The salmon you mention is proper quality stuff as is all their products, nice and thick, perfect for a summer glug and dust on the outside of the bait
The shore crab is like water and can't say I've persevered with it if I'm honest for this reason
In reply to Post #39
cheers mate Think I'll have a play with some of that.
cheers mate
Think I'll have a play with some of that.
In reply to Post #32
Hi mate
Good to hear from you. Hope you're coping well in these very challenging times.
My memory is not so good, did I tell you about he big common I had on March 22nd?
In regards to the liquids , there's hardly any difference
Hi mate
Good to hear from you. Hope you're coping well in these very challenging times.
My memory is not so good, did I tell you about he big common I had on March 22nd?
In regards to the liquids , there's hardly any difference
In reply to Post #34
I really rate them both
I use them both in baits and also 100 pure in glugs. Very very good products in my opinion
I really rate them both
I use them both in baits and also 100 pure in glugs. Very very good products in my opinion
In reply to Post #43
Hi John,
Yes, you sure did and sent me the photos too.
Lovely big common. A fish of a lifetime.
Ian.
Hi John,
Yes, you sure did and sent me the photos too.
Lovely big common. A fish of a lifetime.
Ian.
In reply to Post #44
Hi KB,
Yes, I'm sure they're both good hydros, but the Salmigo would seem to have a better spec than the shrimp, although the shrimp spec doesn't list the amino profile or the peptides.
I've noticed that the better products like CPSP990 tend to give a more complete spec, so as to promote their better properties.
BB.
Hi KB,
Yes, I'm sure they're both good hydros, but the Salmigo would seem to have a better spec than the shrimp, although the shrimp spec doesn't list the amino profile or the peptides.
I've noticed that the better products like CPSP990 tend to give a more complete spec, so as to promote their better properties.
BB.
Can I do away with the vecon when I add the hydro or could I keep both in the mix?. What ml per kg would be optimum for the salmon hydro?.
In reply to Post #47
Hi Jimbo,
I would keep the vecon and add 50mls per kg of the Salmigo.
Remember, you're trying to improve the more immediate attraction, not substitute additives.
If you can't locate vecon then use marmite.
BB.
Hi Jimbo,
I would keep the vecon and add 50mls per kg of the Salmigo.
Remember, you're trying to improve the more immediate attraction, not substitute additives.
If you can't locate vecon then use marmite.
BB.
Thanks For your help BB top man.
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