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Lead clips, fixed or running?
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inzenity

Posts: 448

#21 24 Jan 2026 at 3.23pm

In reply to Post #19
Couldn't agree with you more about not calling a leadclip fixed. Had some funny conversations about that years ago, what do you mean fixed, how is it fixed? Never understood any of it, never will:D

RKB

Posts: 1604

#20 23 Jan 2026 at 2.14pm

Drop off inline set ups overcome a lot of the issues mentioned.

Ged

Posts: 448

#19 22 Jan 2026 at 7.52pm

In reply to Post #18
Ged I get that but, the original idea of this thread is having the lead fixed, so that the fish can swim normally. No small fish is going to swim normally with a 5oz lead attached to it.

I'm not sure many carp would swim NORMALLY with a 5oz lead attached, but I'm pretty sure that any fish that can move a 5oz lead would have released the lead from the clip on any of my set ups.

I've also seen no mention of the damage a hook may inflict if attached to the lead fixed style or it impeding the hooks release as it's always under pressure.

I think we need to get away from calling a lead clip a fixed lead, it's not, it's semi fixed. A correctly set up clip should be able to release the lead on all but the smallest fish.

Please remember, as I stated in a previous post this scenario only comes into play if you snap off. I can honestly say that I cannot remember ever snapping off on the cast whilst carp fishing, and I caught my first carp over 50 years ago. Of course I've snapped off on unknown snags once or twice, but I have to accept that such things can happen.

As you say I think we will have to politely disagree, I truly believe that the rigs I use (I only use a clip about 50% of the time) are the safest for my fishing situations, and you obviously feel the same for your rigs. At least we both think about what we're trying to achieve.

vossy1

Posts: 7999

MODERATOR

#18 22 Jan 2026 at 6.16pm

In reply to Post #15
I'll take your points onboard Vossy, and try to answer them from my point of view.
I only fish with a maximum lead size of 3.5oz, so can't really comment on the very heavy leads you quote. Clips can be set to discharge the lead under very light pressure, alot less than it takes to pull a size 8 swivel out of the clip barrel or the sleeve of an inline lead, so if a small fish cannot discharge a lead from a clip it won't be able to pull the swivel out of the clip barrel, so it still becomes a fixed rig from the point of view of a small fish.
I fish a mixed coarse fish syndicate with a large head of tench, bream and roach. We don't have any problem spotting the bites from 6oz roach etc, so they must be moving the lead. In fact the last fish I caught there was a 4oz perch on a worm rig, the bite was clear. The tench and bream are no problem, the tench often dropping the lead on the take.

Ged I get that but, the original idea of this thread is having the lead fixed, so that the fish can swim normally. No small fish is going to swim normally with a 5oz lead attached to it.

I fished Le Queroy in France back in 2017 and it should've had a silver netting the year before, the place was full of 6-8oz Roach. I was using 2.5oz bare method feeders which when method added must have been near 5oz, maybe more as I use a dense paste. I'd turned the Delks vibrate off as there were so many of the buggers, but kept noticing minor jiggles of the indicator head. When retrieving I nearly always had a lip or foul hooked Roach on the end irrespective of bait size. Every now and then I'd get a bleep, I assume when a Roach really panicked as a Cat or big Carp was near but that was it.

I'm very aware of issues with none releasing swivels, not in clips as I don't use them very often, but certainly in my Avid method feeders. I now use them bare, no tubing, no tail rubber, often with the barrel unlocked and often with a bead in front of the swivel, all in the hope I'm minimising the line/swivel getting stuck....the big BUT

Anyone who's fished with silk weed will tell you no matter the bore of the item you're using your line will get jammed at some point even when using a large bore run ring, especially if fishing at distance, in fact you may have to clear your tip ring to boot. If this weed gets around the lead swivel combo the tail rubber is going nowhere and in the case of a fixed lead neither is it.

I've also seen no mention of the damage a hook may inflict if attached to the lead fixed style or it impeding the hooks release as it's always under pressure.

I'm just thinking aloud, as are we all, but there is no proof to support that fishing the lead fixed isn't dangerous to other fish and fowl, surely as responsible anglers we should err with caution until there is? How hard would it be to tank or water test fixed weights to prove one way or the other how they affect them before declaring them safe as they save bigger Carp.

There's not much more I can add to the subject, I come from a scientific back ground and I'm not convinced, it's that simple, for those who agree with the idea I'll have to politely disagree with you, it's all good

Belch

Posts: 4373

MODERATOR

#17 22 Jan 2026 at 5.47pm

In reply to Post #16
My lake insists on dropping all leads over 1.5oz - primarily so carp aren't played/landed with heavier leads banging around and further opening up hook wounds in the mouth on short hooklinks. Whether this is actually realistic I'm ambivalent about - these are the rules.

Other than the lakebed eco issues and the cost to my pocket, I actually don't mind this as dropping leads (especially with heavier leads) is def an advantage IMO as it gets the fish up in the water quickly / allows quicker initial control on the fish once hooked. On this basis I use either MCF Dumpers (no tail rubber but sometimes secured with PVA string) for lead clips set ups / Fox Inline Drop off Kits for Inline set ups (my pref most of the time) or the Fox Run Rig Drop off Kit for running rig set ups (used in conjunction with their PVA plugs to keep the lead in place on the cast / whilst plummeting down in deeper water)

Don't tend to use them as a BBoat user but Helis (non-drop off style) are surely supposed to be the safest in the event of a mainline break? Fish swims against weight of lead / flicks off top bead from tubing/leader and is simply left with the hooklink and a ring swivel only (in theory anyway). Chod even safer as length of hooklink is only the chod itself?

With all other set ups (and on the proviso the lead has been dropped from the clip in all instances) the fish could still be swimming around with the hooklink & clip with swivel PLUS Xcms leader / tubing / mainline depending on where the line has broken in the first place?
I suppose a free running running rig is marginally safer as the lead is less likely to get jammed up . . .a standard clip (non MCF) and standard Inline drop with a tail rubber can be pushed on tight . . .maybe this is his point?

framey

Posts: 5141

#16 21 Jan 2026 at 5.07pm

In reply to Post #14
I do agree on dropping leads
But, there are some lakes that insist on it 🫣🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
Can’t remember the last time I lost a lead….

Ged

Posts: 448

#15 21 Jan 2026 at 3.56pm

In reply to Post #11
I'll take your points onboard Vossy, and try to answer them from my point of view.
I only fish with a maximum lead size of 3.5oz, so can't really comment on the very heavy leads you quote. Clips can be set to discharge the lead under very light pressure, alot less than it takes to pull a size 8 swivel out of the clip barrel or the sleeve of an inline lead, so if a small fish cannot discharge a lead from a clip it won't be able to pull the swivel out of the clip barrel, so it still becomes a fixed rig from the point of view of a small fish.
I fish a mixed coarse fish syndicate with a large head of tench, bream and roach. We don't have any problem spotting the bites from 6oz roach etc, so they must be moving the lead. In fact the last fish I caught there was a 4oz perch on a worm rig, the bite was clear. The tench and bream are no problem, the tench often dropping the lead on the take.
Regarding wildfowl, a coot or tufty can easily lift my leads, but not sure it could survive getting to the surface in 12ft of water, so yes that could be a problem, again it depends on how much pressure it takes to discharge the lead. But again it would take more pressure to pull the swivel out of the clip barrel, so it would be the same result.
Except in very specific circumstances I don't set lead clips to discharge under very slight pressure. Normally I would expect the lead to discharge on a fast take, but remain attached on steadier takes, but would obviously discharge if it snags, much like when the swivel pulls out of the clip barrel, but this gives the added problem of the lead possibly trailing a few yards behind a hooked fish. Fine in open water, but not ideal if there's weed about. I suppose it boils to how many leads you can afford to drop and your views on leaving leads in the lake as to how tightly you would set up a lead clip, and how much of a bolt effect you desire.
To put this into perspective, the scenario's we're talking about can only occur if you suffer a snap off on the cast, we're unlikely to get snapped up by a fish that's not powerfull enough to discharge a lead from a reasonably set up clip. If nothing else it shows the importance of using adequate mainline for the distances cast and the conditions you're fishing in.

ip100

Posts: 12371

#14 21 Jan 2026 at 3.26pm

In reply to Post #13
Yeah of course, I've said exactly that earlier about the shorter arm for the tail rubber, and also catering for everyonesl. I don't like the idea of pva'ing the lead on with no tail rubber because of the guarantee of dropping the lead in any circumstance, way too much lead is being left in lakes imo. But thats a whole other conversation 👍

framey

Posts: 5141

#13 21 Jan 2026 at 3.16pm

In reply to Post #6
Provided the angler hasn’t rammed it on
Gotta cater for every idiot on the bank
All they need to do is shorten the leg that goes under the tail rubber.
Can also use them without tail rubbers on and pva the leg closed so lead doesn’t come of in flight.
Only need a little thinking about and everything can be made “safer.”

ip100

Posts: 12371

#12 21 Jan 2026 at 1.58pm

In reply to Post #11
Regards other species, that's pretty much the same for any system used, most won't have the strength to pull any size lead being used these days. As for the may or may not work, if set properly they do work. It's relying on the angler to set everything up correctly, but then that's the same for anything. The only way for 100% safety for every fish of every species is to not fish for them in the first place.
We have moved away from "fixed leads". That's a term for something that is fixed with no possibility of coming off.
Safety is something that's a matter of opinion, for example the "helisafe" is marketed as that, but in my eyes it's completely unsafe in that it removes the "anchor point" needed to aid any bead being pulled off and the hooklink being free of the main line. Others argue by losing the lead it makes fish more landable.
It's down to the makers of these products to make them as idiot proof as possible as we all know some people can't grasp how to use things properly. We've all seen pictures of utterly stupid things. Swivels behind an inline lead on leadcore, leads clipped to the hooklink swivel etc etc.
How clips are used in either a full running way or in that bolt rig way where they initially hold and then run along the line is of little relevance imo, both are relying fully on the line being straight and clean enough to slide through that small hole in the tail rubber to come off. It really doesn't take much at all to prevent that happening. If anyone wants that bolt effect, use as I mentioned earlier the tapered rubber beads and a run ring. Does exactly the same job but is way safer.

vossy1

Posts: 7999

MODERATOR

#11 21 Jan 2026 at 1.30pm

In reply to Post #8
I'm just commenting on what I read, and to be honest whoever originally thought of this to my mind can only be a Carp angler or maybe Carp only fishery owner, I'm not having a pop at anyone, and maybe I'm misunderstanding, we all have our views.

1, They're advocating fixing a hook link to lead clip with a 3/4/5/6 oz lead on, in the theory that a bigger fish ie, Carp may be able to discharge the lead when dragging it near it's face and snags.

That's all well and good, but what about every Bream/Tench/ specimen Roach, that hooks itself and can't swim or drag a lead of that size, not to mention any wildfowl, diving Ducks, Coots, etc.

I feel like I've been transported back 3 decades, I thought we'd moved on from fixed leads?

2, they're suggesting we do this as a tail rubber may or may not discharge for any reason.

So we've replaced a system that MAY not work and MAY tether a Carp to one that will likely kill everything smaller than a certain size that doesn't have the ability to move that lead easily.

Effectively we've tilted the odds in the Carps favour only, at the expense of everything else, am I alone in seeing that can't possibly be right?

Regards running rigs, totally agree, I thought the discussion was based on bolt effect clips not deliberately using them as run rigs.

woody71

Posts: 3068

#10 21 Jan 2026 at 11.14am

In reply to Post #6
totally agree with you, i believe a running lead clip is a dangerous rig when there are far safer alternatives to achieve a running rig

Ged

Posts: 448

#9 21 Jan 2026 at 9.49am

In reply to Post #7
I think IP100's explained it very well in post #8.
With a heavy lead, such as the 5oz mentioned, the lead should be released on the take, or at worst whilst playing the fish. With light leads a bit more thought is needed to set them up safely. And don't get me started on drop off helicopter systems, you need to be very sure of your mainline/leader set up using these. Once the lead is gone, there's nothing for the fish to pull against to allow the hooklength to slide off the mainline.
There are some very dodgy lead clips about, I was given some a couple of years ago. The gap between the clip arm and the body was too small, even without a tail rubber it took a lot of force to discharge the lead. With a tail rubber fitted it would have been virtually impossible for a fish to drop the lead.
Just to give an idea of the tangles that can occur after a snap off.
A few years ago a friend had a frap up whilst casting a deeper, resulting in snap off trailing about 30yards of braid. We were waiting for it to drift ashore, but it stopped about 15-20 yards out, the trailing braid had obviously caught up in underwater weed beds. I sent my dog in to retrieve it, she brought it ashore, but the tangle in the braid would have been lucky to pass through a rod ring never mind a lead clip.

ip100

Posts: 12371

#8 21 Jan 2026 at 8.52am

In reply to Post #7
The issue with what your saying is the obstruction behind the clip prevents the tail rubber coming off at all. So you're solely relying on the line breaking again, or the hook ripping out . And as you say with a lot of modern angling that line could be a strong leader for example, which has now got a few ounces of lead hanging however many feet below the fish making it far more likely to be tethered. With the clip fixed in place that can't happen, and the fish has a chance of losing the lead, which is the biggest danger. Sure they'll still be trailing the line about which may end up caught on something, but it may not too. With a lead hanging on the end it's going to snag as it acts like an anchor. For the clip to do it's job it absolutely must be fixed in to place. There are far safer ways of getting the same effect as the running clip system safely. The tapered rubber sleeves and a run ring for example, you get that initial resistance of the lead, and then it will slide off the bead and because of the larger bore of the run ring, and lack of a tail rubber, will allow the lead to slide away in the event of a line breakage

The point about leadclip design makes sense, but in reality isn't really possible because of the forces put onto it on a big cast and also when they hit the water . The first korda fixed clips had a weaker arm and there were problems with them snapping on impacting the water. The tail rubber is the safest way. For me the better idea would be to keep the arm nice and strong, but manufacture it shorter so the tail rubber can't be jammed on too far

vossy1

Posts: 7999

MODERATOR

#7 21 Jan 2026 at 7.44am

In reply to Post #6
Thank you for the explanation 👍

I still don't see it though as you'd be keeping for eg in modern angling, up to a 5oz lead say 6" from the fishes mouth, it wouldn't be swimming round normally for very long like that. You'd be condemning it to dragging the lead and itself (especially if a big fish) along the bottom, untill the lead might release. Could a Carp compensate for that weight via it's swim bladder, I have no idea.

If the clip moves up the line and then snags at least the fish may be able to break the line, or fray it, or act in some way normally even though tethered.

Got me thinking about lead clip design now.. lol. If you think about it, the only bit of the clip arm that needs to be strong is is at the front, makes you wonder why past that point isn't a much weaker link, so even if the rubber doesn't discharge, the clip arm would pull out of it. Why rely on another component ie, the tail rubber to have to come off 1st, makes no sense.

Wierd how other branches of angling reduce strength toward the hook in general, or if fishing near snags, yet Carp fishing is the exact opposite.


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