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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 |  | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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Ok chaps....this is a very sensitive issue we all face. Its happening all over the country and if it hasn't happened to you....rest assured it will.
I've created this thread for ALL of us to post photo's of Otter attacks...you may add the lake, area, size, cost any vital information that will help...
DON'T post words that will paint a bad picture of us Anglers, that wont help us at all.......
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Hi Frenzy, been away for some time due to ill health. Just reading through your thread, really shocked to see how things are with the furry foe today. Are people still releasing these bloody predators? I moved down to West Sussex 4 years back and not knowing the area well just wondering about the state of the Adur, Arun etc. Through shooting, I have found out that our beloved water authorities have been dumping untreated sewage into the rivers down here, and found out recently there is a planned pipeline across farmland that will empty into the Arun about a mile south of Pulborough. So between our furry friends and the water authorities, how much damage has been done to fishing in the south east? From what I've read so far it;s heartbreaking.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #289
Yes i have some data on that one
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| | | Karlos | | Posts: 13192 |  | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #287
Glad you can get it fenced mate.
If possible, try and do as much of the fence work yourselves, you'll save a fortune
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In reply to Post #281
Nene is riddled with them everywhere. We have had issues with them doing anything they can to get under/over/through the fencing this year. Luckily only lost two pike before all the weak points were fixed. However another of the clubs venues got hit badly, even smashing through the ice to get in. The cubs (is that the right term) we’re even snatching the big roach.
Landowner has agreed to let us fence it though.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #1
anyone got info on fencing, costs? amount of predation etc to share????
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #284
i see we have alot of "watchers on this thread"
those who are reading this and appear to be new members, would you care to introduce yourselves
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In reply to Post #283
Unfortunately they will likely be welcomed with open arms. They are probably having little signs with illustrations of our furry friends made up as we speak.
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Just been informed Walthamstow reservoirs as now got otters on them
Remains of carp found on the Warwick
And there's also a video of a otter over the 2/3 reservoir 
Not a good sign
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #280
alot of koi keepers these days are losing their valuable fish, alot of which are in town centres
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Driving back from Peterborough area yesterday, dead Otter on the A1 near Wansford, Nene is riddled with them there.
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In reply to Post #279
And if "nothing" continues to happen,, then the only fishing will be carried out in a wire cage.
there's 68 million people living in the uk, and that is increasing at an alarming rate, the countryside is shrinking fast to accommodate this overwhelming number of inhabitants.
but the current Fad of rewilding seems to think everything can just coexist like some kind of disneyland fantasy park, the otter numbers had reached a sustainable level, releasing loads more into has not helped anything, even the otters are suffering with lack of habitat, food and territory.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #278
agree to a point
Otters take large breeding fish
cormorants/Gooseanders eat smaller juvenile fish
crays eat fish eggs and fry
no wonder fish species struggle.
We shouldnt even be considering stocking rivers at all
So whats changed since that clip in 2018...nothing!
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more on predation,
the species may not be carp, however that matters not to the otters, or the cormorants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsRbg6etGyA
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In reply to Post #264
https://i.imgur.com/qP13fdv.jpg
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In reply to Post #275
Yes it was a total act of utter stupidity - nobody with any intelligence would re-release an apex predator into an environment without first ensuring the relevant natural food source was also present in abundant numbers too.
It was the Industrial revolution that wiped the Otter population out, as every toxin/poison imaginable was just dumped into water courses wiping out the Otters main food sources (Eels and Salmon)
Did these clowns who re-introduced Otters actually have the intelligence to check prior what the levels of prey actually were prior the Industrial revolution – did they hell!
As an example go look at the Alaskan Rivers, that’s the kind of levels of fish stocks required to support a healthy population of apex predators. In fact there was so many Salmon in British Rivers farmers used to net them out by hand ever year to use as Pig Feed over the winter!
I feel sorry for the ground nesting birds and water fowl, boy are they being systematically annihilated as natural fish stocks are plummeting and the Otters are desperately looking for other food sources.
Well done your tree hugging idiots! 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTYZwTl8lNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3dRdQDeK_A
the late John Wilson had something to say about otters too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUf8q7eGmKQ
at around 4minutes into the video, but its all worth watching.
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In reply to Post #223
Totally Agree
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In reply to Post #272
I seen this as well..
The media in this instance is a bit behind,like 20 plus years behind ,there are many instances I learnt of the lutra lutra destroying garden ponds and stocked water features..
Someone put it on YouTube,to read the comments under the info on YouTube,confirms everything I have learnt about the British peoples perception of a wild or pre released apex predator..
In short they don't have a clue..,
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| | | RKB | | Posts: 1248 |  | |
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Looks like a bit of lighbulb moment here - note how it's "expensive pet fish" in this instance which has merited it a headline on the BBC website.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-61756567
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #265
who released it mate
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In reply to Post #264
I saw one in the road a few weeks ago,..there's a small fishery less then half a mile from when I seen it lolopping along..
It's also in the same area where a pair were released into a river that feeds off of an old open cast mine,this release was witnessed by a local beef farmer who challenged them,they didn't know the river was barren,but the fishery nearby was not barren,...its now missing a few nice carp though,and of course a few bitten survivors..
Such a shame..
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #263
road kill figures have increased massively in the last 12 months nationally
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In reply to Post #5
another otter found dead near near the yateley complex last week
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #257
a fence is far more important than new stock 
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In reply to Post #1
My local lake Brighouse angling club has had do put otter fence up at a big cost to them money what could have spent on fish stocks and up keep still a great club
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #255
I know exactly how many otters have been rehabbed by UKWOT
3 have been rehabbed and released in the area that they were found
3 are currently in process of being re habbed, one of which has died.
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After the idiot shooting an otter I decided to do a little digging in to the rehabilitation but more so the release of otters. So I asked Natural England and these are the two responses I got;
1 - Under the Conservation of Habitats & Species Regulations 2017, it is an offence under sec 43 (1)(a) for a person to deliberately capture, injure or kill any wild animal of a European protected species. It is also an offence under sec 43(3)(a) for a person to be in possession of, or to control a wild animal of a European Protected Species and an offence under 43(3)(b) for a person to transport said animal.
However, under sec 44 (1) a person will not guilty of the offence under regulation 43(1)(a) of deliberately capturing a wild animal of a European protected species, or an offence under regulation 43(3)(a)
or (b), if the person can demonstrate that the act in question—
(a) was in relation to an animal that had been disabled otherwise than by the person’s unlawful act; and
(b) was done solely for one or both of the purposes of—
(i) tending it and releasing it when no longer disabled; or
(ii) releasing it after it had been tended
With regard to the release of a rehabilitated otter, you would need to try to avoid doing so into an environment where it could cause conflict e.g. a fishery or that would compromise its chances of survival. Because the animal will have been ‘under the control of man’ (albeit temporarily), failing to consider the aforementioned points (i.e. appropriate release sites), could result in the offence of ‘causing unnecessary suffering’ under sec 4 of The Animal Welfare Act 2006. Obtaining landowner permission to release the otter is another consideration.
2 - A licence is not required for release of a native wild species following rehabilitation.
Ideally the animal should be released at or near the location it was found injured in suitable habitat.
Now bare in mind these responses came from two people in the same team, in the same office.
Basically it shows that depending on who you speak to there is a real different message being put out there. But ultimately you do not need a license keep or release an otter if the purpose is for rehabilitation. So DO NOT listen to anything UKWOT or whoever tell you when they say you need a license.
The glimmer of hope? If somehow you find out an otter has been released near your water without your prior knowledge then there is a law being broken and you would have a legal case. Proving the release is difficult though unless there is photo or document evidence, which no doubt anyone releasing one will not have.
It shows the farce that it is, no documented numbers, releases, etc. I would like to see a change pushed by the PAG and/or AT in the higher echelons they operate in, me talking to my local NE contacts wont get it changed.
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In reply to Post #1
An otter was found dead in Yateley this week( Shame) NOT.
Second dead one in the same area in 12 months
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Must say the PAG Big Picture 2 report is very comprehensive and has managed to turn a couple heads of people I have shown it to. The figures on losses and costs of fencing are the real head spinner I think.
Big props to the people involved
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In reply to Post #251
Baden Hall has now been affected by it, all kicked off on a Facebook post with vids of diving otters and dead specimens. Hopefully they act!
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In reply to Post #1
this has all gone rather quiet?
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I live I the midlands and have fished in the Trent valley for a number of years my fav water in the midlands being Attenborough pits and they have a huge problem on there which leads me to have to admit that all the lakes I've fished north and south of these pits are looking right into the storm of killings in the future as there is no way of fencing these waters! such a sad time for the fishing in Notts its never going to be the same again. I also had a 30 lber carp from the river last season with all its tail and fins mauled. im afraid the only way moving forward is to fish a fenced fishery and maybe some of the mystic and magic is going to be lost in the sport.
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otters are only doing what they are born for hunt and eat fish the money we pay for our fishing should be used to combat this problem and the fishery owners should get grants to help them to keep there stock from this happening carp fishing is quiet expensive and a lot of care of the fish has to be second to none but this problem is killing our sport and killing otters is not the answer fences need to be put up in all waters and rivers monitored and ditches its a major problem and help and funding is overdue its time to help our fishing instead of lining there own pockets fish are getting attacked and the good quality fishing is getting harder to find my fishery has erected a otter net and monitored all the time but this needs to be in every fishery especially the little quiet ones
 
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In reply to Post #1
A large percentage of fishery/syndicate owners are in it for MONEY only, all they care for is bottom line profit. There are measures of prevention that raise a word they despise COST. Maybe the past will come back where Carp Anglers Fishery owners are in it for the real reason I started in the late 80's The love of CARP Fishing
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In reply to Post #245
Apart from being a criminal offence all your doing is making space for the next family of otters to move in. It's certainly not something that I'd be going around telling people I'd done.
Perhaps read the last line of Joss' post #1 - "DON'T post words that will paint a bad picture of us Anglers, that wont help us at all......."
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Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
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In reply to Post #1
Sad news i heard today mate,a small syndicate water by me has been hammered by otters,my mate who fishes it said EVERY carp in it is now dead
My friend reckons they had been telling the owner to install fencing for the last 3yrs,citing experiences yourself and i have already suffered,its now 3yrs too late
The owner even had the audacity to say that a £100 increase in membership is to go on top of the £400 the anglers already pay
Needless to say he wont be getting many renewing their tickets 
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In reply to Post #242
That is very sad mate, and bloody frustrating
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In reply to Post #241
I saw a picture if that fantastic Northern common that Simon crow recently had at 39lb. A fish estimated to be 50 years old. Now dead, savaged by otters. Very sad.
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In reply to Post #240
Well it's two weeks before Xmas, and as every year since 2012 , it's kicking off as always - I been sent photo's of fresh Otter Kills just today
Every year about now this thread goes into melt down, has it started all over the UK?
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #239
more than happy to help where I can
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In reply to Post #236
yes this is all an interesting and scary read,i do really appreciate the time you have spent replying!!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #237
always here to help if and when i can mate
I may have stopped angling for now, but not my predation commitment
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In reply to Post #236
Thanks as ever for your input Frenzy 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #235
I will add....when I had otter problems 3 years running, I shut my lake down until I sorted it, twice I got it wrong, this time I hopefully have got it right...its the first winter in 4 that ive had no probs (touching wood as I type)
I shut it down as I didn't want anymore stress for the fish hooking them etc.
what I did find was that where a coupled of lads were pre baiting a couple of spots, that's where the otter was getting my fish for the obvious reasons ..so I stopped pre baiting during this period also, although, that did give me a pin point as to where the otter was getting in and out of the lake.
Im going to have some VERY important news soon re help, I WILL post it up soon as I can!!!!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #234
Generally, you find the carp very "pacey", un settled, irritable.
They will almost stop feeding dependant on the amount of otter predation.
You will find, if the mother has cubs, that the fish will have damaged fins and tails as the mother injures its prey for the cubs, this will end up either killing the fish due to bacterial infection, or they will lay up stressed and just die if not eaten.
Its not a pretty picture nor thoughts of what predation of large fish can be, but its factual
Summer months, you will find the otter quite happy eating smaller silver fish and tend to leave the larger fish alone until winter when carp especially go very lethargic.
hope that helps
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Hi , im fishing a large water with a small head of carp and now a small head of otters!
I would like to know how the carp have reacted to otters on other lakes!
Have they changed there feeding areas or there feeding patterns?
Seems like the worst spring for bites for a long while and wondered if its down to the otters? haven't seen any possibility of fish fatalities yet!
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In reply to Post #232
i agree,looks like its been grabbed by an enthusiastic pike and got infected, as the scales are missing from the back in the right shape. Was the other side the same how bigs the fish?
If the lake doesn't have a fence though its only a matter of time 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #225
i doubt thats an otter bite mate, it certianly doesnt look like one to me
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In reply to Post #225
Looks like it's an old wound opened up by being dragged through a snag?
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In reply to Post #229
Yes, you may be right. It could be a bacterial infection.
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In reply to Post #225
A wound like that would be a couple of weeks old, I would be surprised if its spawning damage. If it was a fish of a couple of pounds I would say it was heron damage. Its probably a bad infection, if its a healthy fish it should heal ok
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In reply to Post #227
Probably a spawning injury. The would will heal quicker than you might think and will simply be a 'bald patch' before too long.
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In reply to Post #226
there was no other visual damage on the fish according to the report
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In reply to Post #225
It might be, but I suspect not. I'd be interested to see the fins. If they are not damaged and no other signs of marks then I would say probably not an otter.
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In reply to Post #224
one of the members on my syndicate lake has just posted this on facebook and wants to know if its a possible otter attack
a closer look
personally I think not
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In reply to Post #223
My wife and I had a week in the Maldives a few weeks back (been there lots) and among the guests were a couple of rather nice ladies traveling together, one a solicitor, the other an IT specialists. Now, each island invariably runs a weekly night fishing trip for any interested guests, and my wife and I went this time, as usual. The following day the trip came up while we were having a drink with these ladies, and they oohed and aaahed and tutted alarmingly....turns out they were rabid animal protection types, and it was wrong to fish, end of.
So, as you would, I asked them what they thought of otters, which was answered much as I expected (lovely, cuddly, sweet...all the usual stuff) . I replied with information about the damage they were doing to fish, fisheries, peoples livelihood etc., but they were having none of it. In the end we had to agree to disagree, or move to another Island 
My point is, our main enemy in all of this (otters apart) is extremism....on both sides of this issue. We have seen on this thread, on the bank and elsewhere the absolute nutters screaming "Kill them all", "Shoot 'em on sight", "poison them", "beat them to death with clubs" etc, etc. If any otter lovers wanted to bury our cause, then encouraging our nutters to shout stuff like that around would do the job for them just fine!
On the other side, we have the rabid "Don't you dare tread on that ant" tree huggers, most of whom would cheerfully harm a person in support of their cause, but freak out if you accidentally DID tread on that ant. And of course, you have less then zero chance of getting through to them that there are two sides to this, they point blank refuse to even listen.
The problem we have is that even the best of our lot are tainted by the words and actions of our nutters, and judged as being one and the same thing. Their nutters however....are perceived as heroes.
That is an extremely difficult difference to come to terms with, let alone overcome .I feel your pain Joss.
Cheers, Dave.
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In reply to Post #222
Did you see a year on Loch Lomond last week? They showed a pair of Otters hunting Beaver kits in the river! Apparently they are quite sought after by Otters!!! So they just eat small fish then...................God help us, our country is in the hands of total halfwits!!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #221
I know and appreciate its not an easy one, but and its a big but, if clubs and members of said clubs want to protect, then its hands in pockets in affraid
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In reply to Post #216
all good in principal but the lakes round my way struggle to pay the rent for lakes let alone pay for materials
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In reply to Post #218
Yeah,Leeds Castle Kent,they have a christmas fair every year,normally theres RSPB/RSPCA type stalls amongst the usual local food and drink stall's,My daughter was drawn by the toy otter straight away...
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In reply to Post #218
I know every lake will have its own circumstances / how its run etc.
My option was simple. Asked if the members would pay up front for the following years costs so they basically paid double. It raised enough money to buy the majority of the material and although the following year was tough financially and no investment was pumped into the lake - it has protected the lake for the future.
The only other option was drain it, net it, and sell the stock and walk away. NOT an option in my eyes or the members eyes.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #217
Leeds Castle in Kent mate?
people like CA and RSPB use images of otters as they know full well that the general public will either join when using cuddly images and 99% of public haven't got a clue what destruction these creatures cause
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In reply to Post #216
Went To Leeds Castle yesterday,there was a Xmas Fair on,there was a Stall for the Wildlife Britain (??) and Countryside Alliance,there amongst their pamphlets etc was a book on the Reintroduction of otters, also to suck the kids in was a couple of cuddly toy Otters.
I pointed out to my kids the damage otters do to Fish stocks and used an example of the castles waters being decimated if otters were present,got a few funny looks.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #215
they could look into doing what I had too.....raise the fees, join other clubs or syndicates when purchasing material to get better prices, insist that members carry out the work to reduce labour costs....it can be done, I appreciate its not easy.
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In reply to Post #213
agree lots of denial in Suffolk but what happens to the club lakes that genuinely cant afford to fence and do not own the lakes?
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In reply to Post #212
They won't be laughing or in denial for long Dave. Mr Otter could not careless how big the Club is, or how many members it has, or how much money it has in the Bank - the Fish stocks will get wiped out just as quickly as they are in anybody’s unprotected waters!
I was chatting to a well known Tackle Rep in a tackle shop today, he agreed with me that with in the next five years the only Waters with a viable future will be Privately run Carp Syndicates, as they are the only ones that have installed Otter fences, it seems to me that Carp Anglers are the ONLY ones who even value their sport.
Must be because they are not tied up in all the bureaucratic Bull#### associated with Club Committees, they will happily protect it and even pay for it between themselves
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #212
theres only so long for denial...as more and more fences spring up...we shrink the available food source...the un fenced waters will become more effected....
denial will cost those lakes stock, membership and revenue...vey short sighted and stupid in my book
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In reply to Post #211
Its always sad to see, and you may be surprised as to how many people always deny its the otters.
There are a couple of club lakes very close to where keith (defiant one has his lake) that have also been hit by the otters and the bailiffs and other members seem to just want to deny it. If you bring the subject up on the clubs own forum then you are basically laughed at and belittled.
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In reply to Post #206
This was found on Blunham angling clubs dovecote lake beginning of the week, they have also lost a 30+ common. The mad thing is some members are in denial it's otters it's unreal and the club can't fence because it's farmers land blah blah blah..... 
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In reply to Post #208
I think that less than £9 a meter, fully fitted including numerous gates, access points, machinery etc isn't expensive in the grand scheme of things.
However, it took some work to get it down to that price, and all members helped out. As Joss said, lot cheaper than the stock was.
Factor the cost in and spread it over membership for 3 years and youll have a lake for life protected and continue to fish for years to come.
Without a fence - no lake is safe - FACT
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In reply to Post #208
Totally agree Joss, also the warning that 'the otters are coming' was repeatedly given many, many times over the last 15+ years and yet most just ignored it.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #207
it costs far more to re stock than fence..!!
something that's always baffled me if one can fence
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I've moved on from 2 local waters that I had hoped to fish for the rest of my life because of otters. Sadly the costs of fencing were too high for most members and now they are simply not worth fishing for carp.
Really is gutting.
Fencing simply has to be done and built into the syndicate price. I sometimes wonder though that owners are looking to pass the costs on too quickly. This can kill membership and is self defeating.
Surely it has to become the norm and funding managed sensibly so these lakes survive.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #204
would you mind Pm;ing me locations?
Im in the process of doing a map of sightings and fish kills...no fishery will be named or details given away, just a pin on a map...
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In reply to Post #204
It's a story I hear every winter, and have been doing for at least the past five years – and its getting worse.
The Otters claimed their first true “Scalp” the other week around here, as in exactly what I predicted would end up happening (I wish I had been wrong!) is happening!
No Fence = No Fish = No Members = No Money = No Lease!
So Kiss the water goodbye - its now happened. What was once a very good water with old english Carp in it is now lost, all because the owner is a total “Tool”, and would not let the Club that had it, put a Fence up!
Dave, if the owners won't let you Fence it (You use Railway Sleepers with the Fence Posts fixed on top of them when fitting Fencing next to a Canal Bank, so it can be done with ease) And also not let you have a “Rolling Life Lease” on the lake, then there's sod all you can do about the situation.
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In reply to Post #203
It's **** mate, it really is. Not just our pool either. Anothe local pool about a mile away has lost a few fish as well..although they seem to be dealing with the problem more successfully than we are.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #202
really sorry to hear that mate, its gut wrenching and heart breaking.
This is the time of year otter cause far more damage, without fencing, sadly nothing you can do to protect it
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In reply to Post #1
Well it's finally happened on the small syndicate pool i've been fishing for the past two years.
In the past 2 weeks we have lost 6 Carp to a single Dog otter.
The tally so far to this Verminous menace stands at :-
1x 30lbplus Mirror which we'd watched grow on from low twenties in the last 18 months.
1X Mid 20lb Mirror (last caught by myself at 26lb 6oz)
1x Low 20lb Mirror (last caught by myself 14 months ago at 20lb 2oz...looked around 22-23lb
1x Low 20lb Common that was known as the Grey Common due to its colour
1x High double common around 18lb
1x Mid double Koi
We are pretty convinced that we have lost other fish to mid 20's in the past to the otters as there are a handful that have been on the missing list for the past 12-24 months that used to see the bank on a fairly regular basis.
The sad thing is, due to the pools location is we cannot fence it as it is too close to the canal which runs along the entire length on one bank and has most of the swims on it.
Also the owners care little about the fish as they are "Horsey" people, thus the pool is little more than a pond in the corner of a flooded field that we pay them for the right to fish it on a yearly basis.
The fact that the rights are on a yearly basis doesn't encourage us to fork out for a fence.
It's looking like the future for the place is rather bleak, which is a shame as it's a cracking place to be.
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In reply to Post #200
Everybody can like it or lump it Joss, that's the harsh reality of the situation from now on......... Its a shame for the Canals & Rivers. But there is sweet sod all anyone can do to change it, even if they was allowed to.
Luckily there is a lot of responsible fisheries that are protecting their future – and in doing so protecting the future of the sport, its not all doom & gloom. 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #199
but its a crying shame we should walk away from the water we love and care for...the poor rivers and canals :(
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In reply to Post #197
the waters that simply cant be fenced for varying reasons I really feel for.
If you can't Fence it, its just a total waste of time, money & effort – Walk Away.
I turned down a place on an exclusive “Dead Man's Shoes” Syndicate last year, when asked the reason “You have no fence, the last thing I want is to join, enjoy fishing the place, and then come winter have to start walking the banks/margins looking for Carp Carcases before & after every session, sorry been there and got the T-Shirts”
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #197
im already getting reports of increased otter sightings from waters and worried anglers.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #196
the waters that simply cant be fenced for varying reasons I really feel for
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In reply to Post #195
With the warm/wet Flood free summer we have had the Otter problem will have increased (Breed) dramatically, but that's nature. Its “Infested” with them here in the Northwest now.
I just can't get my head around the fact that people are still daft enough to throw money into something that's not protected in any way, its just stupidity of the first degree!
In fact I would class it as Animal Cruelty.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #194
and we are approaching the time where otter activity will increase sharply !
If a water isn't fenced...it will be predated upon at some stage
the more waters that are being fenced, the more the otters food source we are shrinking for them..otters are purely driven by food....so...more fenced waters, the otter will move to an un fenced water...its that simple
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In reply to Post #193
The message just does not seem to be getting through thou Joss – to fishery owners and Anglers. There is still people happy to set up a “New Carp Syndicate” and ask prospective members to Invest there hard earned money into this “One for the future”
The worrying thing is people are not even asking what has now become the most important question bar none “ Will the water be fully Otter fenced?”
They still after all the documented evidence/photos showing what a futile waste of time and money stocking anything without a Fence has now become, keep doing it!
It's Utter madness. Its like taking your money to the Bank for safe keeping, and the Bank then every night piles every body’s hard earned dosh on a large table outside in the street.
And then still expects it to still be sat there every morning! 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #192
The eat anything and everything given the chance and the availability of food
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In reply to Post #112
Pretty sure they will take any fish - but they do have their preferences
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In reply to Post #182
in your opinion do otters leave bream alone thanks
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #189
dependant of stock, size of lake etc...plus if you have a transient or resident otter....not long..
for example...my lake
2.5 acres....34 carp.....one otter (caught on trail camera)
night 1 = 2 x carp, 21 and 28
night 3 = 1 x 25
night 7 = 1 x 19 + 1 x 22
night 8 = 2 x doubles
night 14 = 23lb'er
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I turned up at a local 14th century mill pool today with carp in mind never fished it nor do I know anyone who has, one thing I do know I found a lot of big scales on the bank which tells me an otter has had carp out of this lake, these are the scales of a 20lb fish I have no doubt. What worriws me is am I now fishing a lake that has no carp in it? how quickly can these things destroy fish stocks?
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In reply to Post #185
Very sad mate.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #185
Saw that mate...its horrible...
Incidentally there has been a massive amount of Facebook traffic on the PAG page...well worth reading....please, if you are visiting the page though, be mindful how we as anglers respond.
Also, donations have been flooding in to support the PAG's work (NON profit)
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In reply to Post #182
http://youtu.be/SsUMxcwLVvU
See what it done to my duck last saturday night!, as well as killing a mid double!
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Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
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In reply to Post #182
I wasn't fishing when i found it, i pulled off the place a year ago. I found spraint and scales all over the dam on a regular basis, this was the first fish i have found.
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In reply to Post #181
Sam,
i know the Ressi your referring to..on my last visit to the venue which was just for a looksee,i found a kill platform on the dam ,obviously a [remains ]of a carp ,plus a dorsal of what was once a very large perch.....as you know this place did indeed hold the UK perch record....
SWLT it seems are in denial..a very great shame indeed....
The above was a few years back...on that day I met and conversed with another two local anglers all from Bideford/Barnstaple area..they told me the place had no predation issues, yet I found `signs` within ten minutes of being there....
But at least someone in the southwest has listened,as Gwinear is to be robustly fenced from tomorrow....lets hope that other local venue in the Cornwall area take note and pull their fingers out...Trebellan which is next door especially ,not to mention Oakside as well.....all have been visited in the past....
Like I keep on saying its not if your lake gets ottered its WHEN..............................
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Found a mid/high 20 dead at my local SWLT reservoir with signs all around of otters. i've reported it, still waiting to hear back.......  It makes me sick to give SWLT my money every year, it's such a shame they have control of the lakes they do.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #179
ive had 3 others killed in past 3 wks...
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In reply to Post #173
!!!! i can't look at that picture it makes me cringe
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #177
hi mate...sorry only just read this...
that fish survived...ive wrote about it in jans carpworld article due out....the story goes further, of which I will write about in feb's issue
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In reply to Post #173
Hi joss,sad to see pic of that carp,just shown that to Mrs,she couldn't beleive the damage done by those cute little things she sees on tv(country file etc),,,,,,,,,she now understands my anger
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In reply to Post #161
Beave, you have arrived at the figure of one otter per 5 square mile by dividing the total surface area of of England by the estimated number of otters. However...otters live exclusively on the banks of rivers/lakes...they do not live in Westminster or the middle of a cornfield. Were you to rework your answer by counting only the square mileage of the areas where it is possible for otters to live...you would end up with a very different figure indeed.
That new figure would be useful to us as well...as that would tie in nicely with the areas we anglers are concerned about. Having said that, if otters DID decide to make a nuisance of themselves in cornfields and Westminster, we might then get some action on the issue
Cheers, Dave.
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In reply to Post #174
Very sad indeed.
The worst bit is, you can do a perimeter check every day, but it only takes a few minutes for them to get in! So you check and its safe one evening, come the morning it could have got in. Sickening!
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In reply to Post #173
Very sad 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #172
Having fenced my lake, we've had very little trouble.....until the other week where an otter dug underneath the wire fence buried into the lake bed and done this to one of the biggest in the lake...Her pec fins and tail also in a bad way
shes still alive and was obviously suffering, but I guess as its only a fish it doesn't matter to the pro otter pple
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In reply to Post #1
I have run a small lake for 2 yrs and I am into my 3rd year. It is predominantly a catfish water, but does hold specimen sized fish of many species including carp well into the 20's and big rudd. We are surrounded by many other commercial fisheries and carp lakes etc. Other fisheries never mentioned the fact they had an otter and even denied having one to me, until last month when I found a dead carp and a dead catfish, then when I asked them again they all said they had had problems for the last 3 years!! My lake had basically just been fortunate not to have lost any fish up until this year.
I have now erected 600m of otter proof fencing. I cannot recommend my fence fitter enough. He is extremely well priced and did the whole lake in 2 days!! From start to finish.
The otter even attacked a 50lb cat, and 2 40lb cats. One of the 40's was killed and the tail eaten!!
They will have a go at anything in the water!!
The fencing contractors name is Adrian Hall and he covers most of the UK. A top bloke and did an impressive job
07973 237670
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In reply to Post #1
A 7 acre lake between St Neots and Huntingdon in 2010 on farmers land. A good friend gets permission to fish it along with one other. A 40lb mirror and a 28lb common are caught - these unpressured fish are easy to spot and the total stock is 23 carp with another two or three 30lb mirrors.
June 2014 and the stock is now 6 fish with the common being the largest. All throughout the winter the farmer has seen an otter visiting the lake. No doubt it is visiting the other 3 larger ones within one mile too - one being a syndicate.
Will it happen to your lake? What do you think?
One area where they do seem reluctant to visit ( so far ) are lakes really close to towns. I am thinking of Lea Valley and Colne Valley in particular. But for how long?
Nobody WANTS to fence their lake, but what other options are there?
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In reply to Post #1
In the news 12 months back.......Norfolk
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2272738/Distraught-couple-forced-remove-6-000-gallon-pond-garden-otter-ate-200-prized-fish.html
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In reply to Post #168
The video on facebook (shared by the PAG) is from an employee from here....
www.teviotgamefaresmokery.co.uk
Which they claim is "a haven for wildlife such as badgers, otters, woodpeckers and kingfishers which have been spotted in the past year."
Seems like they have accepted that the Otters will take their fish
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In reply to Post #1
Just seen a video on facebook of an otter clearing the koi pond in a garden centre!! Cant seem to share it...gutted
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In reply to Post #165
i don't understand what is happening to our fisheries why can't the general public see what damage these carnivorous animals and birds do, when i was a young man we used to get paid to shoot cormorants not anymore and look whats happened, a fishery owner should have the right to protect his business but i just can't see it happening for a few years yet i expect i will be dust by then.
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In reply to Post #165
I wish with the otter problem we face I wish people (and I haven't read this whole thread ) would not call for an otter cull. We have to get across to the people in charge we are NOT anti otter but they have to understand that like a farmer if a fox gets in his hen house he can shoot it and if an otter predates in an enclosed body of water where it is having an effect on the lake own inhabitants fishery owners should be able to take immediate action.
This is not an endangered animal and neither is a cormorant and as such both should not be given preferential treatment
Measures should be given to lake owners to take an agreed course of action in defending there and other peoples livelihoods and the conservationists should realise that ultimately we all want the same thing but sometimes there has to be an element of give and take.
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In reply to Post #164
And there are a damn sight more square miles with no water on them!!! I can't see them feeding much in farmers fields full of crops.....
Even 10000 is mental. One, two or three mature fish a day.....EACH! Look what 15000 cormorants have done to silver fish stocks and there is - was millions of them 15 years back. And you can protect against them by stocking larger fish, scarers, shooting with a licence. Otter protection is much more difficult, time consuming and expensive.
But if you don't fence 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #161
one Otter per 5 square miles
IF...the figure is true...yes your correct..but since an otter covers up 30km's...there are a few crossing paths, mating etc hey
10,000...one otter needs approx. 1.5kg of food per day, that's a lot of gills to chew up when you times 1.5 with 10,000 mate
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In reply to Post #162
If that's the same organization that did the parakeet survey a couple of years back I wouldn't pay any attention to it, the amount of these birds they claimed were in the wild could be found in Richmond park at any given time, the actual number of them was at least 4 times their figure.
If this otter survey is out by the same margin....
Big trouble!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #161
that was natural Englands figures so you could double that
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| | | Beave | | Posts: 15676 |  | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #158
So if those number estimates are true that's only one Otter per 5 square miles , hardly a figure of epic proportions .............
Take the 425 away that have been found dead on the road and that gives one at just under 5.5 square miles .
That's only England mind you , I can only imagine that Otter figure makes up the total for the British Isles as a whole so the square miles per otter would be considerably more
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #159
a sad but truth fact
fence or get your fish stocks killed
edited as I swore like I had a bought or turrets...!!!
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From Adam's report included in The Big Picture report detailing otter predation on Cornwall:
"Who is to blame? The Tamar Otter Sanctuary, Cornwall Wildlife Trusts and the private do-gooders with their own agenda and release programmes.
There are now so many dog otters in my area that they are fighting for territory, a fact that the Cornish
Wildlife Trust admits to. They have been released into areas where, in the past, they never even existed. It’s a totally man- made problem. These people should be made to pay for all the damage to the ecosystems that they have destroyed by overt reintroduction of an apex predator with no natural enemies.
I will stand by what I have written. There is no future whatsoever for Cornish/Devon coarse angling unless the fishery
is prepared to fence the venue, hence my saying ‘no fence no fish`. I go to sleep thinking about what has and is happening and wake up after a disturbed night still thinking about it. That’s not good, and it has been going on for the last 20 years
.Link to the full report.
And some of you wonder why I have been fishing predominantly in France for the past 20 years
NO FENCE? NO FISH!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #157
there is an estimated 10,000 otters in the country
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In reply to Post #156
Just about finished "The Big Picture" which you can read from the PAG website. So many shocking stories backed up with facts and figures.
"Approximately 425 dead otters found in England between 2007-9" is astounding
. How many of the things are there alive right now? I just cannot comprehend how so many carpers do not see how vital it is to help our sport. Join the Angling Trust, keep asking your club or syndicate when it will fence and take pictures of any mutilated fish you find 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #155
Gutted for you and the syndicate..
do you have and photos of the fish kills
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In reply to Post #154
Well, that's me looking for a new venue to fish this year, having read about the otter damage to my current one (Winto's /Sand pit, Leicester) in the Venues UK forum on here.
It will be interesting to see what it says in the renewal letter
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In reply to Post #145
Wow that`s amazing footage...very very good visual evidence indeed.........
Here`s a small tale ,short of a long..............Me finds mint single figure common dead in margin,no predation marks ,nothing.....but fish dead...picks up dead common ,puts common into leaf fall directly behind me and my gear..couple of mins later I look around ,no dead fish ?.......looks upstream ,sure enough otter seen carrying common in direction of it`s holt and river kill platform.................
I will never forget it........
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #151
yes mate
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In reply to Post #150
Is that on your lake joss
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #148
more than once...ill post some more up soon
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In reply to Post #147
So they do go back to old carcasses then?
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #146
ive got some video of a smaller female...but don't know how to put it up on here
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Great footage Joss
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #144
Ok...bear with me....my trail camera picked this up the other night
This is a previously ottered 32lb carp I set as bait
A fox Approaches
It hears something approaching
He stoops, Mouth open, ready to bark and "flight"
Fox runs and Dog Otter appears to feed on carcass
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In reply to Post #143
Not sure if this has been posted before but here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loz6t1HWYO8
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In reply to Post #141
The river Camel has been heavily predated by otters..The BAA had a web cam on the river not so long ago ..the cam showed footage of the otter killing and swimming...
ask a member though,do you have a predation problem and they will answer no...!!
Ask Roger in the local tackle shop which is primarily game fishing ,and he will tell you that they are a menace..BAA are more worried about a small amount of escapee perch in the Camel than predation from Lutra lutra....,gotta keep the environmentalist types happy ....eh....BAA.....and brush it under the carpet..
BAA= Bodmin Anglers................
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In reply to Post #141
I asked one that question yesterday morning, he said they never have any issues with them.
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In reply to Post #140
I bet if you have a lovely salmon river and it becomes infested with otters and your salmon are suddenly becoming depleted then that is when you get a few otter hounds in.
I wonder what gamekeepers and salmon river owners do to deter otters.
i do not expect any other answer other than otters do not eat salmon so it is not a problem.
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In reply to Post #138
I was told when something miffed me big style when in my teens, by a wise old man "Don't worry what goes around always comes around - might be 2 years, might be10 years down the line, but it always does"
Up to now it has always proved to be right, and sometimes in some very strange ways! 
I would put money on the likes of the EA, RSPB, English Nature etc, etc....... having some very major problems in the coming years, with being blinded to reality with pure political correctness.
They should have learned from the past (Most of civilisation normally does, or suffer the consequences if they ignore it!)
For Otter Hounds to have been breed, there must have been a very good reason. For the Scottish to incorporate Otter Traps into Dry Stone Walls - they did not do this for sport/fun.
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In reply to Post #138
next we will be getting told to keep windows closed at all times incase they get into our fish tanks,
To me that statement graham scholey made just proves they are not interested in our side of things, they are just willing to turn a blind eye to it and let the otters run wild till there is nothing left!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #137
exactly.....telling pple to give up keeping koi carp and keep newts and frogs...good lord how responsible is that!
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In reply to Post #136
basically admitting there is a problem but not willing to do anything about it
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #135
I read this earlier today
The Dorset Wildlife Trust has issued a warning to householders about the threat and suggests one option would be to keep frogs and newts instead of expensive fish, or protect ponds with metal grids.
Spokesman Clive Martin said: ‘Otters have discovered that breakfast, lunch and dinner is provided by ponds.’
Graham Scholey, of the Environment Agency, warned that otters are protected and anyone attempting to kill, harm or disturb them can be fined £5,000 or jailed for six months.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086794/Warning-otters-snatch-expensive-koi-carp-garden-ponds.html#ixzz2tUYhBnab
What fantastic advice hey....they cant even face up to it can they
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #132
You will see something in the not too distant future mate...its a very complex issues and very time consuming.
one of the reasons this issue is so slow on the up take I would suspect is because its appears that its only one part of angling kicking up a fuss.....and that's carp anglers
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #133
we bother because we care peter
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In reply to Post #132
apathy rules until it effects them but it will be to late then i dont know why we bother
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In reply to Post #131
when will anglers see whats going on  PAG has just 8000 likes on Facebook, there must be at least 1 million carp anglers in the UK
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In reply to Post #121
Ken Townley warned of this pending disaster in Carp World at least 14 years ago (Is it that long ago Ken!)
Stop, Jim. You are making me feel old!
But yes, it was 17 years ago that we found our first confirmed otter kill on a local club lake. Sadly it was - as is often the case - the biggest fish in the lake, one I had caught in 1979 at a (then) PB weight.
As you say, you can lead a horse etc etc...
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #129
ive just spent the best part of 3 bloody days post bumping 250 posts in....
its graft i'll give ya that one!
do you charge day rate if materials are supplied...I have another lake to fence shortly
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In reply to Post #128
If any lake or syndicate owners are looking to otter fence their lakes get in touch by a pm for a competitive quote cheers
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In reply to Post #123
2 weeks? wow. Just shows how urgently people need to protect their lakes.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #125
it will have tomorrow...a bit horses bolted situation, but there you go
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In reply to Post #124
yes mate
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In reply to Post #123
No Fence fitted I presume?
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In reply to Post #123
In northants?
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #122
Today i visited a lake that has been smashed to bits by otters....it looked like Billingsgate fish market, i found 12 carp from 20 odd lb to a known common of 37lb and a mirror of 41lb
the owner was in tears, his 40 odd years of developing his small fishery wiped out in two wks
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #121
probably a bit of both mate...people are defo more aware of the disaster as it accelerates, I know of so many waters in the nene valley and surrounding areas including local canals that are getting hit almost daily.
we all have a responsibility to report these kills as if its brushed under the carpet, nothing will ever get done, at least by reporting and making people aware we might have a glimmer of a chance
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In reply to Post #120
Ken Townley warned of this pending disaster in Carp World at least 14 years ago (Is it that long ago Ken!)
I wish he had been wrong (I bet he did)
But I found out the hard way that he was 100% right in his prediction. I got Photo's of Otter Carnage from another local water just last night, as it had been found!
Think thats 13- 14 waters hit with Otters for the first time, that I've been told about in under 10 days!
I can't belive just how fast they are spreading! Or is it people are now starting to come clean and admit that Otters are attacking there waters?
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In reply to Post #118
If you are right then it sounds like any unfenced fishery will have to change to a boating lake in a couple of years.
Anyone fancy putting their name down for the 2020 british stickle back championships!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #118
when will this end...how will it end...or more to the point will it ever end
it saddens me reading posts like this daily
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In reply to Post #112
There would not be much point in doing. Otters are in every county now, and spreading at a rate of a 15 mile radius per year (Well that's what me and two other fishery owners have noted in our area)
The sad truth is your going to have safe waters with Fences, and waters that are not fenced devoid of Fish and Wildfowl.
~ Here in Lancs 3 more waters have fitted fences in just the last two weeks! Got told of a story of a few guys who have a little 1 acre water, that took instant action as soon as they found kills. They hired Flood lighting so they could work solid for 48hrs to install a full Fence.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #115
gutted for you and those fish
ive just been sent some photos of kills from a lake fairly near to me...6 fish in one night
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In reply to Post #114
why not mate
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The Big Girl from my local estate lake, I caught her a 24lb in 2012.
The lake has now lost x2 30lb x5 mid 20s and some tench around 10lb, such a shame as the lake couldn't be fenced and now contains very little fish.
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In reply to Post #113
Not the best idea to publish where the few fenced lakes are I wouldn't of thought.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #112
dam good question, i'll see if the PAG have one
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Does anyone know if there is a map available which shows which fisheries have been ottered or have had to erect otter proof fencing to keep them out.
would be useful to know where they are and where they may be moving to.
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In reply to Post #110
I never thought you were
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #109
no I wasn't having a pop mate....horrible veiwing
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In reply to Post #108
Ah ok, was New to me, and not nice
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In reply to Post #107
which one mate otter eats large carp
yes mate....that's been knocking around for a while now
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In reply to Post #106
Have you seen the vid on Shaun Harrisons Facebook page?
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #105
You cant blame them mate...no one wants to see an animal in distress...the thing with all the otter problems is...you cant blame the otter
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #103
trust me I was knocking any efforts mate.
if we encourage people to post pics on here the PAG get them all
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In reply to Post #102
Joss thats where the pictures are going im trying to get as much evidence as i can
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In reply to Post #100
With the greatest respect....
there are far too many dam off shoot groups on this subject now...right from this very own page, right to Facebook, little campaigns here n there.....all very commendable.....but there REALLY is only one route...one group...
The PAG
anyone with photos should pass them onto the PAG, report the damage to EA and the Angling trust.(for whats its worth)
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| | | Beave | | Posts: 15676 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #100
Whats the point in that Josh ?
Joss is already passing on all the info from this thread to the PAG
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Can everyone who has photos of fish that have been ottered please send them to a email i have set up for otter pictures lutra1@hotmail.com thanks
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In reply to Post #98
This is the one that was deleted from my Facebook page
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This is going round a lot on Facebook at the moment, to try and raise awareness. Please feel free to save and share. In fact, please share on any social media you use.
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This was taken today from wolverton mill lakes in Milton Keynes...... Otter had to cross a ****ing road to get to this pond.......
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In reply to Post #95
Thought this might be of interest.
Its from 2011 so can't believe things haven't progressed any
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13697395
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #94
its heart breaking, its where I very first cast out a line and caught a small perch, ive fished the place for over 30 yrs now and took it on to turn it back into what it once was....so much work has been carried out down there, from swim building, clearance of trees, reeds, increased water flow, raised the water levels, blah blah...I wanted to secure the future of the lake so that not only my 5 yr old can enjoy what I have for the past 30 odd yrs but others too...we've took the time to put in walk ways for the local dog walkers, bird watchers alike...
im a bit of a broken man with it now....and I don't think i'll be able to walk away from it.....
am I being forced to break the law by the authorities now?
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In reply to Post #86
I would walk away mate....i understand totally how you feel believe me, i do...
Otherwise you are going to hurt ,alot more when the lake is barren...if the owner will not listen even when you have shown him all the evidence,there is nothing more that you can do....
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In reply to Post #91
These are the one and same people who have ruined course and trout fishing in the Tamar Valley,horrible do gooders indeed ..Anyone one who loves carping and wants to point the finger in anger ..@
The Tamar Otter sanctuary North Pertherwin .Launceston have a lot to answer for........
I also note the owners often spout environmental rubbish in the press ,one of which is a local council member...[.all on the same council] which a local politicians family [lib dem]...destroyed a complete habitat so holiday makers wouldn`t get there feet muddy or ,on water from trees landing on the expensive clothing they party wear...as they walked around a lovely little lake and former productive ecosystm...
all in the name of a nature trail............ ....
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In reply to Post #89
he defo isn't interested in money mate...an extremely wealthy chap
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In reply to Post #90
filmed by the tamar otter sanctuary scumbags
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fSc_JE0q46I&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfSc_JE0q46I
otter kills an heron
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In reply to Post #88
Take it he doesn't need them money then because they don't pay the rent. I know of a water with restricted access and an otter fence so its do able. They are waxing lyrical about the buggers on winter watch atm.
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In reply to Post #87
his decision....
spoil that natural look...ruins it for walkers.....access to lake for villagers etc
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In reply to Post #86
I need to fence...END OF....its been refused as it has too much of an impact
On what grounds Joss????
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In reply to Post #85
Thank you mate
heres one.....my lake of which I rent .....ive done everything...and I mean bloody everything...its turned from a muddy hole into a wonderful estate lake...ive been congratulated by walkers and landowner alike...
"its never looked better..well done on all your hard work"
I will add its not just me, but committee and its key members...
NOW...after being ottered on several occasions I approach landowner with FACTS...not rubbish and guess work...I mean FACTS....im not the person to mess a round....im a successful businessman who don't do anything but FACTS
I need to fence...END OF....its been refused as it has too much of an impact
I have choices..
1) walk away from a lake ive fished since I was 9..im now 46
2) Battle with the law
3) run the gauntlet
today...I feel sick...sick because the Angling trust whom represent angling...(but only its members) don't give a f**K...and a most of their members are forced members...rant over...wake up fisherman as a whole...and that includes you match anglers....cause there aint going to be much of a future in angling very soon
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Gutted for you Joss and everyone who is trying to make a go of it and is getting decimated by otters after all the hard work that goes into getting something up and running.
Believe me I know that sickening experience of turning up to your own lake or should i say one you are running to be faced with dead carcasses of fish that you have invested time and money in and can recall the last time you caught the said fish you are looking at dead on the floor.
All this happened to me and a few friends a few years ago now and I have lost count of the amount of otter petitions and social media sites that I have signed up to or supported, I feel that although it is not a waste of time it is however a lost cause everywhere you look it is becoming more apparent that the situation is getting worse tenfold every year.
I appreciate that people/Anglers will say that you should of protected the lake with a fence but this is not always a choice you have for many other reasons than cost.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #83
mate....that's horrendous
Can I please Urge every angler on here and every angler that you guys know to go to facebook and press "like and share" the PAG page
there are things going on behind the scenes...support is Vital to us all
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Seven picked at random
All in East Lancashire, I personally know of 12 waters being hit all the time - well 11 now, as we Otter Fenced ours last Summer.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #80
sorry chaps....ive been rather bogged down of late with business, life and all the normal stuff that surrounds us....
I will get to your pms soon and YES Wandle...thank you
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In reply to Post #54
Hello mate i pm`d you for your email addy ,as i also wish to contribute to this topic in a pictorial fashion ,as you may know this is a topic i am familiar with ,but not heard back from you...??
cheers Adam
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In reply to Post #78
I can't sign it as I'm not from UK.
But i think the only way is the low suite.
P.S I see some very good business opportunities for fenced fisheries in the future but for those who used to fish in natural water especially for wild carp will be just a walk in nature
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Has everyone on this forum signed this e-petition , i looked this morning and its only got 900 odd signatures , which is pathetic given this is the single biggest threat to our sport at the moment.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44656
Please take 5 minutes to sign this..
edit : Sorry if this is the wrong thread , Mods do you think this should be in a new thread , closing date is tomorrow 10.00 am i believe.
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For those who read my last posts and got scared of the things I wrote please try to find out if my worries are real before scaring other people as E. A. can prosecute you for scaring other people of presence of otters.
So before sharing your worries with other people or in newspapers you can ask EA to comfort you here:
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/contactus/feedback.aspx
It won't take long. You can just write: I've read something on a public forum that makes me very worry about our ecosystem .. and just copy paste what I wrote or express yours worries.
If they don't give you the answers to comfort you than you must share your worries with others (If I were you I will ask for Secretary of State for Environment honor resignation ) especially with a agencies for wetland protections.
I don't have a clue about how things goes in UK so it is your fight. Still I can't help myself stop writing as I just saw what EA published here: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/sectors/39873.aspx
"What should I do?
..If otters are thought to be the culprit, there are several measures that could be taken, for example fencing and developing a small decoy pond close to the river or stream, stocked with low value fish and with easy access for otters . Variations in site conditions and the behaviour of individual otters mean there are no 'hard and fast' rules. Permanent fencing is an option which is known to work."
It is a STUPID recommendation . If you don't trust the lunatic (me) trust them:
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2013/opinion/should-we-feed-starving-polar-bears
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/what-scientists-say/can-we-help-polar-bears-supplemental-feeding
.. and number of polar bear are declining
While writing all this my uncle's saying keeps coming in my mind "The dog dies because of long road and the fool from someone else worries "
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......(did't fit in one post lol)..Unfortunately I think only countrys in witch their fur is still expensive will accept them ... and if it is possible just their fur. Or maybe just put them on a big boat and send them to Australia to finish what humans, cats and rats didn't already succeeded.(last sentence was only a naughty joke, take it as a joke). ....
The otters are responsible beings. They chase their own offspring from the fishinground if the fishingground can't suport them. Human aren't. I am very sure that if the otters were really ugly not a pound woud be spent on them. I am very sure that the EA knows better than us the real danger but as they used public founds for breeding and if they do admit now that a massive overpopulation of otters are able to destroy entire ecosystems and that till "natural balance" is back may pass a lifetimes than some heads must fall at the highest level, and nobody wants to be in public shame. But sooner the danger is admitted sooner actions plans for preventing a ecological disaster. Things move very slow in E.U. due to paperwork so action plans in case of disaster should be prepared and accepted before the disaster come. Nature can hit back sometimes with incredible violence.
The "natural balance" as EU is seeing right now it is not the natural balance in witch otters and humans lived together since first human and otter encounter and both species survived together. During thousands of years of living together humans always chased otters for their fur, used fishingtraps in witch otters sometimes got caught, chased the otter for lowering fish stock. Otter survived even the guns, modern traps. We successfully exterminated them just recently without intention by poisoning the waters. The poison in the waters now are of course much lower than used to be 20-30 years ago. So why all this unnecessary measure of protection since the extinction factor was removed... Endangered and fragile wetlands ecosystems are now small and vulnerable and I don't think they can handle without major casualties the fluctuations between predator and pray till a "natural balance" is installed .... a "natural balance" that never existed since humans and otter lived together.
Please don't take this ideas as scientific documented.... I am just a lunatic who spent last 3 years in paternity leave and watch wildlife programs on TV while children felt asleep as I couldn't go fishing. Though, in some cultures the lunatics are respected as they say gods reveals future through the words of the lunatics..
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Hello again. I promise this will be my last long post on this topic.
Just couldn't sleep last night thinking at all kind of apocalyptic scenarios so today after my kids felt asleep drove home in the middle of the night to write. Just keep seeing in my mind hungry otters chasing pigeons in town squares, injured and sick young dying otters wondering on land in hope of finding something to eat or a place to die... and then of course the rivers empty of fish will run red again as they will be regarded as pests . Please read the Post #32 from Old time angling pt.2. I agree with Mr. Pete Pemberton.
Of course by that time (praying that time won't come) all wetland already endangered fauna destroyed in parts where otters over-breed.
(It's been 4 hours since i start writing this, meantime i was googling for information, I have so many things I want to write but I'm tired and maybe become rambling )
There are NOT otters fault. People shouldn't feed wildlife because even a single person constantly feeding wildlife can create natural unbalance. Just Copy paste something from http://www.paws.org/feeding-wildlife.html
"Reproduction rates may also be affected when an artificial food source is readily available. In the wild, the number of animals being born is often directly related to the amount of natural food available. The number of animals surviving will also depend on how much food is available. This is nature's way of keeping a balance. When an unnatural food supply becomes available, animals may produce more young and soon there may be more animals living in the area than what the natural food sources can support".
But that's what EA and other wildlife organizations did that purposely or unpurposely on a huge scale through:
1 Allowing the otters to feed and breed in fisheries with human rised fish
2 Lots of human raised otters relished in wild
3. Not taking in consideration that fish stocks in natural fresh water are in some cases maybe ten times higher as woud have been if otters were already there. So they keep over-breed happy in the natural fresh water tolerating each other (What a joy to see from bridges otters playing and jumping like dolphins , children will be very happy! and so will be those happy fulls who are suppose to protect wildlife ).
4. Every new predator (and otter is new for the actual fish stock) has huge advantage on unaware fish. For example a fish witch was chased from otters since it was a minnow and escape has better strategies of escaping from otters and will react differently when it feels the otter is around.
Fast overbreeding comes along with inbreeding. .....
In normal condition the otters knows that they need in a small river huge amounts of space and that's why they fight to the death to protect the territory. Every fisherman knows and so does the otter well established in one place that there are periods when fish can be caught easy an periods when fish are difficult to be caught, that there are good years and bad years. Human can store food, otter can't so the otter will defend a huge territory so it can feed on bad periods, bad years. The otters bred in fisheries and abnormal rich natural water does not know that bad years can come. When the bad year come first time that will be the problem.
Hundreds of hungry otters roaming and searching for food in a small river as well as associated tributary streams, ditches, ponds, lakes, woodland can destroy 90% to 100% of the population of fish able to breed as well as the endangered wetlands animals such as Water Vole if any present. (It is quite hard to rise money for saving Water Vole. Otters are more charismatic for the public and are at great fashion right now) An establish strong otter can't fight for it's territory with tens or hundreds of intruders coming at once so it will go with the heard.The lucky ones will get to the sea shore or in a bigger river leaving behind an unsustainable river for an otter and a lot of injured, sick and hungry otters witch will kill everything they can till they die, including pigeons in towns squares if they get there, even the swans from park lakes won't be safe .
Of course this will not happened as you have RSPCA witch will take the wondering otters, feed them, cure them and than what?! Putting them back they will starve again and get injured again or even worst
those recovered losers otters will be able to kill or injured a strong otter witch is hungry and weak and had an established territory but can't defend it of well fed looser otters the RSPCA put back. Human intervention it isn't good.
It is a paradox here
The EA says:
"Lifespan
Most otters live for three to four years in the wild, although they can live longer. Mortality is high among young animals looking to establish their own territories,
particularly in areas with well established populatio
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #73
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In reply to Post #72
No problem Frenzy. Apologies accepted.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #69
i was being flippant...i apologise
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In reply to Post #67
Your first worry should be as the people who are paid to handle the situation are incompetent.
Now if someone from Romania can see this, why is it most in the UK can't???
One guy said to me the other day " The EA should be Prosecuted for wasting Taxpayers money! They take our money buy stock fish, then release them in known areas with large populations of predators, to feed the F#### things – to try and disguise the problem!”
How bloody true!
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In reply to Post #69
lucian please dont delete your post as you have made some interesting points
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In reply to Post #68
Sorry about the long and boring post. I will delete it if you want as it is your topic.
I was saying as UK environment agency haven't got a clue either
And to get a clue sometimes you have to read...
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #67
sorry....but I got so bored after the first 3 lines mate...
so....sum it up for us
apart from Romanians haven't got a clue
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Just read http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Business/Otters_the_facts.pdf
It was a light and interesting reading as i don't know a lot about otters but it looks like it was written by a high-school pupil as a biology project.
It starts hilarious for an government agency relish(witch it is suppose to hire top scientist) even at Romanian low standards
"The Angling Trust, Environment Agency, Natural
England and others are working together to
improve understanding about the interactions
between otters and fish. This document
summarises our current knowledge and is
intended as a starting point for further work."
If this document "summarises our current knowledge" than you from UK have all the reason to worry.
Your first worry should be as the people who are paid to handle the situation are incompetent.
You have well protected natural water full of fish grown without commercial fishing, without poaching, without natural predators as soon as they pass the minnow stage, and extra fed by anglers. So maybe in some rivers the fish live stock is a couple of times more then normal. In this rivers i don't think the otters will be as territorial as described (as they don't have any reason) especially the ones grown in captivity and will bread well and live well for a couple of years till "natural balance" is back. They does say "their social
behaviour has some flexibility" . The real problems will begin i think in a couple of years when thousands of hungry animals well be banish from fishing grounds by the stronger otters when the fish stock will be below normal and had no place to go as the same situation will be everywhere.
I don't think environment-agency tested before releasing or when observing the explosion of otter populations what these animals do on land before dieing of hunger(as they said they will). It isn't cruel just to let a couple of otters away from any sources of water and monitor them. Maybe they won't die as soon as they predict. maybe the agony will take a few years maybe they can find pray on land and flourish. I'm pretty sure that they willl kill anything they can catch just not to die(i would do so if i were an otter)
But after all this will be gone, and of course, all private ponds surrounded you will enjoy these lovely creatures in your water. Personally i am proud that otters are living in the river near my town, here in romania. They came back slowly and they don't have condition to overbreed
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #65
the whole point of this thread was to gather as much evidence, fish, birds, anything that the otter is devastating in its tracks....there after the material posted will be made public, hence why fisherman on here CAN really help.
we have to choose our words carefully and not sound off as difficult and as passionate as we all are...but everyone HAS to remember, that fishing in all its forms is classed as a blood sport.
Hope that helps.
please encourage members, non members to post photos...
Regards Joss
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In reply to Post #63
T strongly feel the angling community and the bird watching world need to join together on this and rather than two small-ish forces pushing , one large group one loud voice !
This thread is great for showing us the devastation , but it needs to be somewhere for all to see !
I've seen nothing on tv or radio for months ! the angling papers still run with the story now and then, but again everyone that reads those already know and understand the issues !
I know there are people out there that are working hard to get this message across , but it seems to me there not making much of an impact ! I feel there aiming to high up the ladder ! you need to convert and group more members of the public (non angling) to create a larger voice before shouting up the ladder .
maybe they should start with getting together with the rspb and joining formerly in this battle !
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I read this topic last night and this morning I called my friend, a local from Danube Delta, to ask him if the otters from Danube Delta catch big wild carp as I thought that only overfed carps from shallow ponds are vulnerable. I was wrong. He told me he knows a otter den and sometimes in winter he goes there early in the morning, before the birds arrive at the feast, and take the carp the other caught over night usually between 6 and 10 kg. He told me the otter used to eat the belly of the fish and the fish eggs. So he cleans the fish, cut the parts the otter ate and eat the rest of the fish. This story made my day! There are people stealing from otters not only otter stealing from people That otter catches the fishes in 8 m water deep.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #62
theres a lot more goin on than anglers mate....
hearts and minds....you don't win a war by killing everything.
a bit I read earlier
Otters now responsible for deaths of rare birds
The UK’s growing otter population is not only working its way through our freshwater fish stocks, but is now affecting the breeding habits of our birds, too.
Angling Times can reveal that the RSPB’s own ‘poster boy’, the avocet, is having its breeding disrupted by the ever increasing numbers of otters in and around Norfolk’s Wensum river system, leading experts to fear for other wildlife as the predatory mammal’s numbers grow.
Having been an acute problem for the river’s fish population for many years, the mass and subsequently unchecked reintroduction of otters across the UK is devastating fish stocks around the country. This latest revelation, combined with the statement by Fisheries Minister Richard Benyon reported in last week’s AT that ‘otter numbers need to be regulated’, adds further weight to calls for this apex predator’s numbers to be checked.
Founder of Norfolk’s Pensthorpe nature reserve, the home of BBC’s Springwatch, Bill Makins spoke to AT about the issue.
“Otters have always been around this area, but never in these numbers. There are now so many that they’re having a hugely disruptive impact on the breeding avocets we have at the Buxton Conservation Trust
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In reply to Post #61
I'm sorry . while I agree with everthing thats been said regarding otters and the fact that no one will take responcabilty for the damage they do or the real cost of the fish deaths for anglers fisherier owns and pond owners this thread and its pictures need to be in the public domain , your preaching to the converted ! the only people that will see it here are anglers !
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In reply to Post #60
pretty sure that's an old case which never came to any good conclusion for the owner of the fishery
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In reply to Post #59
Are you sure there is no date on the article and it just came up on Facebook group thread?
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In reply to Post #58
Sure that case got chucked out last year.......
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In reply to Post #1
For those that have your own lakes the pending court case in the following link may be worth keeping a close eye on.
http://total-outdoors.co.uk/about-us/fishing-insider/
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In reply to Post #56
a high double
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In reply to Post #55
another death
40 +
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In reply to Post #54
low 20 leather
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In reply to Post #53
if you want to e-mail me it i'll put it up...pm me if you want me too and i'll respond with e-mail addy
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In reply to Post #52
Today I got a picture of a 38-41 mirror which I caught many moons ago, older than me and from the king of bucks carp waters...... A sad day indeed... I can't put the pic up as I don't know how. This water is now nearly fishless
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In reply to Post #51
found another 20+ dead today on my walks....this time on a local canal....i'll post pic up soon
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In reply to Post #50
totally agree mate, it would be great to show we are NOT narrow minded
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In reply to Post #1
Agreed a very sensitive issue when we also start to post for example bird life kills by otters such as moorhens,coots,ducks, avocets!, young swans etc then we strengthen our case.
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Mid twenty pound mirror...
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In reply to Post #47
That Hugh Miles report raises an important issue regarding otters and their hunting practices. Not only in his pond, but in carp fisheries, once the otter knows about the body of water and the fact it contains an easy meal, it gets extremely determined.
Hence why those fisheries that have fenced BEFORE kills don't seem to suffer as badly as those who wait until after the first few fish are killed.
Pretty much the same with your house being burgled.....if it happens once then the chances of the thieves coming back are much, much higher than if you were secure in the first place and kept them out 
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In reply to Post #27
If you thought It won't happen to me, my venue, or river read every word of HUGH MILES and his personal account with otter/s.
The best known, Iconic UK Wildlife film maker and author, I know of, even he is not safe from the otter.
A Great 'real life' extract below:
Tuesday, 26 March 2013
"Wildlife Film Maker Killed by Otter – from Sleep Deprivation”
I can believe the headline because I’m that victim. The time is 02.45 and the otter is just outside the window right now, eating the last of our golden orfe. I have tried to keep it away with a six foot fence and by lighting the pond, even shining a torch at the ‘playful’ little otter as it runs around our garden but every night this last week it has found a way in, keeping me awake in my futile attempts to protect our fish. It’s all over now, the last fish has just been eaten, I’m exhausted and the otter will go hungry.
It is distressing and sad when fish that have grown up as our children’s pets are killed, especially when a healthy ecosystem is destroyed. The pond was a vibrant haven of life, native fish such as rudd breeding successfully, weed growth flourishing, the surface alive with dragonflies, damselflies and even mayflies, aquatic life flourishing, fed on by mallard ducklings and minnows dived on by kingfishers. Now it’s all gone and the situation is deeply disturbing.
The final act was when the otter absolutely trashed the place, ripping up lilies in order to eat the last few minnows. I feel sympathy for an otter that is so hungry it has to hunt minnows. I also realise that my losses are nothing compared to those that are trying to make a living running carp fisheries and farming fish. There are big problems out there and I naturally ask why?
I feel gutted for Hugh after reading his blog.
OMG - There will be a lot of worried Koi owners & Enthusiasts across the country now, along with us anglers now.
Wake up people and be vigilant out there !!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #45
Thank you Beave
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| | | Beave | | Posts: 15676 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #1
Thread tidied
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In reply to Post #34
< img src=YOUR LINK HERE width=500>
should look like this but miss the space out after < cant put it up correct or it thinks its an image.
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In reply to Post #33
Sorry just couldn't get the link to work
Sorted thanks to Matth85
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In reply to Post #20
Just to clarify - this isn't from my lake, but another a few miles east
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In reply to Post #28
I will be doing heavy duty rabbit mesh, and electric, and an out turn at the bottom as the ground around my lake is so hard an otter will not dig through it. Unfortunately the contours of the lake and trees will be a bloody nightmare but I don't care if it takes all summer I'm gonna bloody do it.
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In reply to Post #27
Thanks Wayne 
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In reply to Post #25
I don't know if this has been seen before but just had it pointed out to me elsewhere
http://hughmiles9.blogspot.co.uk/2013_03_01_archive.html
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #18
in process of mate
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In reply to Post #20
Truly shocking tom, feel for you pal
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In reply to Post #21
wire it up, they wont be biting it twice.
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In reply to Post #18
My place is fenced, I currently have them biting through the wire!
Im in the process of replacing all my mesh with a thicker guage to help with the problem.
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In reply to Post #1
From here on the Cotswold Water Park, a few miles away from my place
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In reply to Post #18
What sort of fencing is in place though?? The otter fencing I have seen has a loop of babrbed wire at the top and the mesh and footings are dug back of that makes sense, so of an otter/fox etc does dig straight down it wont get anywhere
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In reply to Post #1
Frenzy is your water fenced? Or is it a water that cannot be fenced? I have just been on Facebook talking to some lads whose waters are getting nailed and they have fencing up!
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #16
yes.....so if you can help...PLEASE do so..
this thread should be every anglers number 1 priority
I appreciate fishery owners etc are reluctant to inform that otters maybe a problem, but if we keep our "problem" quiet, what chance to we stand...?
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In reply to Post #10
If the distressing evidence of wildlife deaths is brought into the public domain.. such as photos of birds/ducks etc, being attacked surely this will be a help in the argument for control.
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In reply to Post #12
Greg they are everywhere to many dogs they will be fighting before long for territory I am sure some one is letting them go I am now to old to have a go I have night binoculars the lot I am sure there being let go at night there turning up overnight in places they have never been I just wish my legs were ok its a terrible situation
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In reply to Post #10
looks a bit like a tufted
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #11
any chance of fish deaths...whatever the species mate....and birdlife
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In reply to Post #7
I had a big dog otter in my swim at Montford Pete, not a bite for anyone on that stretch all that week. We moved down stream to Bicton and saw pad marks a good few times. Needless to say, that stretch fished not at all. Only saw one set of pad marks at Loton but were told they'd been seen there. The river didn't fish well above Shrewsbury last year mate, no shoal barbel to be seen just the odd specimen sized fish.
Most barbel anglers wouldn't mind the specimen sized fish of course, not much chance for future years though if the smaller fish have been decimated.
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In reply to Post #7
I can get lots of evidence like this its getting out of control
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #9
its not just fish stocks....last winter when the lake froze over....the birds got it..!
and most pple are worried about what dam flavoured boillie they are using or the price of Rod licences...
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #8
ive not figured which fish this is as yet, but it was well into 20lb +
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In reply to Post #5
Another with half a tail nearly every fish we catch at shrewsbury have tail damage they even come into your swim not frightened at all. to many let go
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #4
thanks Pete..
ive got more but on my iphone which I need to sort out
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In reply to Post #4
Another with the tail nipped
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In reply to Post #3
Another with his tail nipped
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In reply to Post #2
 a few coming up from the river severn
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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In reply to Post #1
As a lot of you know I run a small traditional estate lake. Dug out in the 1600's and stocked in the mid 60's
recently we have had a few attacks....
this was what this carp was....stunning fish 21lb
another
and this was the low 20
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General Carp Discussion