|
|
|
|
Can I just remind you all, now that more of us are getting out and about, to be very careful where rats are present. Their urine carries a bacteria that leads to leptospirosis and then Weil's Disease, which can be fatal. I am sure you have all read the warnings and horror stories and you all say "this will never happen to me." Well so did I...BUT I was wrong.
EDIT: Just noticed that this thread is still trying to post an old Photobucket link. To update it here are a couple of pix that may serve as a sombre warning.
11th Feb 2005
If you want to spend weeks eating hospital food, all the time not knowing if you'll be coming out in a box, well don't bother taking precautions. However, let this photo tell it's own story. This is what I looked like the day they let me out of hospital. Talk about dead man walking!
30th March 2005
Catching Weils is a quick and easy way to loose weight...I lost 18kg in ten days!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1211
I know that watching this sad trend of chucking buckets of lake water over people with a PB makes me wince .
How not to treat a mate eh .
Idiots obviously have no brains regarding Weils 😡😡😡
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1210
I heard it’s more likely to come from bird life but I’m no expert. Would be good to know the truth
No truth in this.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1208
I heard it’s more likely to come from bird life but I’m no expert. Would be good to know the truth
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1208
Some people think I’m being over the top worrying about this concern. What’s the best way we can avoid this? Sorry to hear about your encounter with it
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1205
Rat hole on the corner of E
Brings back a few memories from the 80's
|
|
|
|
Many thanks for the reminder Ken seeing the difference between the 2 photos of you is unbelievable it looks like 2 different people.
Be careful everyone
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Bump...For info purposes.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1204
They say your never more than a few yards away from a rat,I remember fishing a particular swim at WVL in the distant past, called the "rat hole" it certainly lived up to its name, nobody would fish it, it was infested, they would chew through buckets, bags, even ate the cork from the rods if they could reach them,even the landing net wasn't safe, they would eat the mesh if you landed a fish in it. at that time I had many traps and I would set them all around the swim, one night I had 18 in quick succession, but they quickly learn to wait for a young inexperienced rat to spring the trap then steal the bait, if you leave it in the trap they will eat the dead one too.
I used to keep everything edible in the truck parked nearby.
I cringe when I see owners letting their dogs lick their faces, and most people who know me would strongly advise throwing a bucket of water over me would be unwise!
my old grandfather would say "a rat will sit on 10 stone of corn, eat an ounce, and pi$$ over the rest". we would surround rows of straw and wack them with sticks sometimes back then you might get 50 or more.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1203
Must make you cringe Ken when you see people throwing buckets of water over their mates head while holding a fish!
Indeed it does, mate! 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1202
Must make you cringe Ken when you see people throwing buckets of water over their mates head while holding a fish! I know it does me.
One cut or graze and that's it - not a clever thing to do 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Just posted photos that are hosted by a decent host...NOT Photo****it!
|
|
|
|
Ok being an ignorance is bliss angler until I read this yesterday (seen loads topping up kettles from lakes over the years but not me though as thought you had to drink lake water to get it WD, I thought I knew better) I must have ducked many bullets over the years, can you point me in the right direction? So when spodding I have always had two buckets, X1 for bait X1 with lake water for rinsing my hands in between casts  yes I used antibacterial gel when finished but looks like I was kidding myself, I guess one quick dip in contaminated water and one unnoticed cut means you are in big trouble! So what is the solution? Can I boil lake water with a dedicated kettle for the job to kill WD for a rinse bucket or do I need to take more fresh water? The thought of this makes me feel ill
|
|
|
|
Just a quick bump to warn you all that thanks to the very mild winter rats are as active as ever so take all the necessary precautions. A very close fishing mate of mine has just been diagnosed with Weils Disease so be warned.
|
|
|
|
|
The tubs of Big Wipes that are found in builders merchants etc, are stated to protect against Weils disease.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1197
Ive just been told today by my brother that a mate of mine has been diagnosed with Weils disease and he does not fish.
Hes a painter and decorator and has been working in a mansion in Manchester Sq, London. All his tools ect are left in the basement of the place.
He felt unwell sometime ago, went to the doctor who sent him for tests and they couldnt find anything wrong.
Eventually they sent him to a hospital to have a liver biop and blood tests.After 5/6 weeks he got the results back and not what he was expecting at all. They have confirmed that it is Weils disease. My brother went to finish the job off for him went into the basement and the whole worktop, table, draining board were covered in rats droppings cups and mugs the same even over the top of the kettle.There was a dead rat behind a chair and another behind a wooden box. My brother phoned his wife and told her what he had just seen in the basement.She phoned his doctor and the hospital and told them what my brother had seen and the doctor said it was almost certainly from there .When the owners were told what the diagnosis was with my mate their first reply was, OH I SUPPOSE HE WANTS TO SUE US NOW THEN DOES HE ? Nice . Hes quite literally fighting for his life and these millionaires/billionaires are worried about being sued.It really does go to show how careful you should be when fishing /working wherever rats are. He really is OCD about cleanliness aswell
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Very helpfull thread now about to order a few bottles of gel
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1194
Pleased to here he is off intensive care ..............wishing him a speedy recovery
|
|
|
|
Please be careful guys. My husband is currently in hospital on life support and renal failure. His symptoms last Tuesday was a headache that turned into the shivers. I thought he was coming down with man flu, Wednesday he stayed in bed all day and the same Thursday. Friday I left him at home and went out with the kids. Got back at around 4ish and he was struggling to breath. Took him the local A&E and well his now in ICU. IT has not been confirmed yet as apparently it can take 10 days for the tests to be confirmed.
Also a reminder to take out insurance and not just think your EHIC card will be ok. If i didnt have a mutuelle , even with having french Carte vital my bill would be in the thousands aleady.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1192
After something of a discussion and education about this with Ken, I am now a firm believer and fully support what he has to say.
Okay statistically one might feel that one is safe, but some NHS links just to refresh the memory, as it can kill:
Personal Protection Measures here
And if you think you might have symptoms, the link below gives some official guidance. The reality, as i'm sure judging by the life changing experiences of others, is far worse.
Treatment here
Hopefully we can kick off the discussion with rats and what we are going to do about them soon, as I hope there are many more like me, who feel they are a blight and risk we could do without. Perhaps one for another day as there are many pressing issues relating to Carp predation, but I'll be taking home all my rubbish, cleaning up not leaving anything for the rats on the bank like the vast majority of responsible anglers on here.
|
|
|
|
|
In the light of the recent thread about rats, which went rather off topic towards the end, I thought this might be a timely occasion on which to bump this thread. It's very long, but contains all the information you may require concerning Weils Disease. Can I suggest it might be made a Sticky?
|
|
|
|
|
Lymes is another nasty, try and keep aware.
|
|
|
|
Once again...
To save you the trouble of going all the way back to the start of this thread, I'll re-post the pix...
Black tongue caused by the antibiotics used to treat me when I was hospitalised with Weils Disease in 2005.
After I came out of hospital. I lost 18kg in 10 days!
And back to my fighting weight over 2 years later...
And as a postscript: To date since then I have suffered a series of very nasty illnesses that I put down to never fully recovering from Weils.
Be careful out there... 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1188
there is a hand sanitiser called dr weils check it out
www.drweils.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
Its always okay to resurrect a thread like this I'm sure. If it raises awareness and educates just 1 more person then it's worth it. You might wanna search for a thread on ticks or Lymes Disease too!
|
|
|
|
|
I know this was 2011and hope its ok to comment but I had no idea about this, I genuinely only thought dogs got it silly i know. This is a great read for anyone who is not clued up like myself. Take the time to check it out.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1183
well shame on his doctors for not testing him for it.
thats what i thought, all the syptoms where there? 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1177
ian
the guy swam the thames for charity .......had all the jabs he was told he needed and then still falls ill ........ how the **** does he deserve that
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1183
Fair play to him for doing it for charity Mate
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1181
well shame on his doctors for not testing him for it.
yes he was warned against swimming in the thames, mostly because of the sewage discharged by thames water,
but if it takes a well known celebrity to become ill to highlight the problem, then so be it.
in this day & age, warning people not to swim in our longest river, that runs through our capital city because its little more than an open sewer?? bloody incredible..... 
you'd think this was the 1800's, not 2011..........
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1180
http://www.contactmusic.com/news/david-walliams-denies-weils-disease-tests_1247518
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1177
i know the guy swam the thames for charity but did he have to do it in the thames thou
edit he was told not to swim the thames being of the quality of the water was not good but he still went ahead and done it against good advice thou
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1176
not being nasty serves him right
Rather think you are feller. The bloke does it for charity. Shame on you for the snide remark
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1176
ian
the guy swam the thames for charity .......had all the jabs he was told he needed and then still falls ill ........ how the **** does he deserve that
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #15
not being nasty serves him right
david-walliams-tested-killer-disease-thames-swim
edit he was told not to swim the thames being of the quality of the water was not good but he still went ahead and done it against good advice thou
|
|
|
|
Very very good thread,
full of information, i have always read your writings with respect Ken, and am pleased that you are well on the road to recovery
Please, If you think what i've written below is wrong, not relevent and perhaps to start a different thread with it, please let me know
Ok,
Can i just add, that being new a newbie to the site, and as informative as the whole thread is, i thought i would like to add a few of things.
the most important thing, is to be aware of the diesease, and take preventive measures, but as stated before, not all rats carry the disease, and certainly not all lakes are "contaminated". and as stated there is no innoculation for the disease, in 40 odd years of fishing i have not personally known or heard of someone who has contratced the disease, but that is not to say that i've suspected i have contracted it in the past!
you will find, and it seems to ring true with my experiences, that lakes that may have a problem with rats, will fall in the near to urban areas, and this in itself causes the biggest problem...litter.
TAKE YOUR LITTER HOME!
I'm afraid to say, all of it, even if its not yours, have latex gloves, and be careful, but take it home, afterall you will be doing yourself and the lake a great reward, i know that standards of bank decorum have improved over the years, but unslightly lakes are just more ammunition for the rapidly growing anti angling lobbies.
i even take my fag butts home, i smoke, smoke like a train when i'm fishing, and they all go in an ash tray, and home with me at the end of a trip.
i have never fished a water thats had a rat problem, that hasn't had a litter problem. it goes hand in hand, in the distant past i have been to some right **** holes regarding litter, and behaviour on the bank, again its all related, nowadays i turn round and come home, not intrested anymore.
So thats the first bit, if it looks dirty, it may well be, be on extra guard.
Secondly, to suggest that people are to exterminate rats is wise?
i can see a situtaion where guns, and the like are being let off at every oppurtunity as the rat vigilantes take on mother nature
hooks baited with bread, horrific, and i've seen it before, and its bedlam,
its nasty and wrong....and yet more for the anti angling types to get thier teeth into
sure, proper humane traps, with monitors, to release back voles and shrews, and the like, these animals are unfortuantely in massive decline, and these animals will also take a hammering if anglers are removing rats on an individual basis, i',m sure there are countless people out there that assume evry small brownish black furry mammal is a rat... not the gun tooting imagine we would certainly be see portrayed in the papers?
Unfortuantely, i do believe that anglers are certainly responisble for the majority of the litter around lakes and i do believe that this is cause for the rat infestation, theres a huge amount of circumspect anglers around, that respect thier enviorment, but even one can ruin it for everyone else.
i certainly didn't want to hi -jack the thread, i just wanted to add some problems that i could see arising if anglers were to take it, into thier own hands to try and irradicate the problem and maybe
calm peoples fears a little, and say that if you suspect a water might have a problem with rats, just take extra extra care.
perhaps a list of waters where you know people have contracted the disease?
or signs in the car parks of waters that may have weils?
I also think people should be made more aware of limes disease, spread by ticks, almost identical syptoms to weils, but from what i've read invariably fatal if not caught in time
|
|
|
|
|
Great awareness thread Ken,, glad to see you recovered, some weight you lost there just shows we are all at risk and like you said everyone thinks, it will never happen to them.,, i will deffo be more aware and careful after seeing this thread, .
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1172
i had no awareness of this weils disease but now im very cautious after reading this thread
If this thread helps make just one angler more aware, then that is a good thing...
I am posting below a PM I received from a member: We should all take note...
I have only just joined this Forum and saw your name pop up.
I just wanted to send you a PM thanking you for the piece you did on Weils disease many moons ago.
I unfortunately contracted this in France about 4 years ago and thanks to the awareness from the piece you wrote, my wife eventually managed to convince the doctors that I may have weils disease.
I did write a piece for Carpworld thanking them and you which hopefully you may have read.
Anyway thanks again and if I ever bump into you at a show I will buy you a pint
Many thanks and kind regards
|
|
|
|
i had no awareness of this weils disease but now im very cautious after reading this thread
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1169
ahh thanks ken for that, maybe if people were made more aware of this it would help keep these outbreaks to a minimum as some one said maybe the E.A should print something on the back of rod licences cause it sounds like a horiffic thing to catch................. stay safe all and tight lines
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1169
I have been fishing since 8 years of age and some 35 years later shudder at the times I must have in the past skirted with the potential of catching what clearly is a horrible condition.
My total way of thinking has changed since learning more about this and hearing of cases like Ken's make it even more real.
In one of Ken's previous posts he comments how after 6 years he still suffers from the after effects and I was talking to a fellow angler on my syndicate who was also suffering the long term after effects of this disease.
Being a family man and sole bread winner I now take every precation to reduce the risk and would advocate every member of this forum heed the warnings in this life saving thread
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1167
Hi Matt. It is a common misconception among UK French fishery owners that the French have developed a protective inoculation.
If you browse this entire thread, towards the end you will find a discussion between myself and Old Fella (Jim) who also believes there is an inoculation that protects against Weils Disease.
It is as Nine-O-Six says above, NOT TRUE, though the French do seem pretty ill-advised about this.
Just look at it this way...If there WERE an effective inoculation, don't you not think it would be available throughout the EU?
The fact that it isn't suggests that there isn't one...
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1167
No, there is no vaccine available for humans.
This pdf is available as a card from the HSE free of charge (go to the bottom of the sheet for the details).
It may be worth trying to get the EA to incorporate the information onto the rod license.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1166
is there not an injection you can have to protect yourself from this, im sure i heard about it while living in france i think the fish farmers get it because there constantly in contact with the water
maybe i dreamt it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1165
we should all take note of this,its a killer
anglers just dont realize the danger of cooking,eating,drinking while fishing.
last week i was at linear complex,guy next to me happily cooking away etc,i noticed next morning hed left his frying pan,pots out in the doorway of his bivvy,when i mentioned weils decease etc he just blankedme, then said,theres no rats round anyway,and carried on cooking. 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1164
Totally agree, good work chap
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1163
Great post !
Its amazing what we can all learn from posts like this.
Sometimes the quest to catch Mr Carp completely blinds us from some more important factors like our health etc
Ive cetainly learned something today - thanks Ken
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1162
same here, going to be getting myself some antibac gel for cleaning my hands with before eating ect.
As they say, better to be safe then sorry!
|
|
|
|
|
Well the message is defo gettin through to me, after reading through this thread ive noticed myself being more concious about it whilst being on the bank, as where before i used to wash stuff in lake water, wash my hands and so on. My tackle bag is now equipted with antibac gel
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1159
DP...Twitchy finger coz I am so angry at the ignorance expressed in some of the posts on here...
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1159
The message is getting through slowly judging by the number of hits.
I wish that was true...you only have to look at some of the idiotic posts in the Rats and Brollies thread to see that the message is falling on deaf ears.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1158
Ken I'm with you on this one!! The message is getting through slowly judging by the number of hits.
Lets just pray all advice is heeded lives will be saved because of awareness.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #242
Just bumping this thread as a reminder...
Keep safe, guys.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #240
Believe it or not, there is only one lab in the whole of the UK who can do a definitive blood test for WD...How shocking is that
Not shocking at all Ken to be honest.
One ELISA machine could test thousands of people a day if necessary, pretty easily.
Above is an ELISA plate, it has 96 wells from memory. Each well could represent a test sample, although replication, is obviously beneficial. The result are read in a desktop sized reader which takes seconds to do.
As long as the samples get there quickly I dont think theres a problem personally.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #240
Its likely more anglers do catch it, than are ever diagnosed, thats why carrying the card is so important, especially in the UK with so many rats at so many venues. For sure a lot of cases which are presented are diagnosed as different things , the key here is to learn.
Don't leave food uncovered, don't drink lake water, use antiseptic hand gel and don't stick your fingers in your gob.
Make sure all cuts and injuries are covered and antiseptic is used as well, remember this just minimalizes the changes , the disease can still enter the body via the mouth, eyes or nose !!
|
|
|
|
just makes you think,we all must have been,at sometime in our fishing lives,very close to catching it.
there cant be many people more at risk than us anglers,especially carp angling,when we're on the banks for days at a time.
i wonder why more anglers dont contract it? the last person i can remember was martin ford a couple of years ago....
|
|
|
|
|
Sad news RIP, and like has been said a reminder to us all of the dangers , if it can kill someone as fit as a athlete then us mere mortals best beware and vigilant .
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heard that on the news this morning, they were calling it a "waterborn infection" and I immediately thought Weils. If it was definitely Weils then if there is any good that can come out of such tragic circumstances it might just raise awareness, particularly within the medical fraternity who seem to be extremely slow at diagnosing it.
Thoughts are with Andy Holmes' family.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #235
sad news . i keep having to tell longshanx about putting everything in his mouth 
|
|
|
|
this was on the news this morning for those that still take it that it could not happen to me....
Former Olympic rowing champion Andy Holmes, who won gold medals with Steve Redgrave at the 1984 and 1988 Games, died aged 51.
Related LinksLondon 2012 build up
..Holmes was taken ill last week with what media reports said was suspected to be a case of the rare bacterial disease leptospirosis, also called Weil's disease.
In a statement on its website, British Rowing said it was announcing his "tragic and untimely death with great sorrow".
Holmes won gold at Los Angeles in 1984 in the coxed four with Redgrave, Martin Cross, Richard Budgett and Adrian Ellison.
Four years later in Seoul he won gold in the pair, again with Redgrave, and bronze in the coxed pair, steered by Pat Sweeney.
Leptospirosis can be caught through contact with river or lake water when the water is contaminated by the urine of infected animals, and is a notorious disease amongst watersports athletes.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #226
i have to carry a green card with me all the time if i become ill as working with raw sewage every day 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #232
Good luck, Martin, and well done for getting to a doctor in time. Left too long this disease WILL KILL YOU. If Weils gets hold of you, unless you are very lucky, that's it...Curtains!
Martin: Welcome to the world of regular blood tests, liver/kidney scans, and general buggering up of your life by the healthcare professionals (I love them really). I caught it over 5 years ago and still have impaired liver function...Mind you, that could be down to the red wine! (Joke BTW)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #228
Hello all,
I thought I should post this as a bit of a warning to everyone.
I have just spent 11 days seriously ill in Broomfield Hospital Chelmsford with Weil's Disease (Leptospirosis).
I'm pretty sure I must have contracted it while barbel fishing on the River Wye around the Symonds Yat area.
As I'm sure most of you will know that the disease is carried and passed on in the urine of infected rats. This can enter the body via a cut or through the mouth, nose or eyes. The incubation period for the disease is anything from 3-28 days. I can only describe the symptoms as starting off like flu - aching all over and a severe headache, nausea then changing to almost malaria like symptoms with a 39c temperature and uncontrollable shivering, chest pain, sweating and a rash on one shin which ulcerated.
The worrying thing is because it's not that common the cases are often mis-diagnosed or not recorded. I was lucky because I was originally diagnosed with pnuemonia but due to my sister-in-laws quick thinking, adding up the symptoms and my visit to the Wye everything fell into place, although the doctors weren't convinced at first.
The treatment was then changed to huge doses of the strongest IV antibiotics which soon started to work on the illness.
Weil's is something we are all aware of but possibly don't take enough precautions against it. When I go fishing next I am going to take some sanitising wipes or a spray to use before eating sandwiches etc. and also making sure any cuts or scrapes are covered with a waterproof dressing.
I was lucky because the disease didn't enter the second phase which can result in kidney or liver failure.
See here for more info http://www.leptospirosis.org/topic.php?t=30
Martyn
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #224
Ask for a blood sample to be sent to Hereford...They will know what you are talking about!
Believe it or not, there is only one lab in the whole of the UK who can do a definitive blood test for WD...How shocking is that
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #229
Just to add some perspective, think about the number of anglers in the UK who fish regularly and then think about the number of cases.....
Of course take precautions and use anti-bac gel, waterproof anti-septic plasters and such but if you get a cold a few days/weeks after fishing don't do your nut worrying about it. The chances are it is just a genuine cold, the type you'd pick up at work or anywhere for that matter.
Awareness is great, but undue worry isn't. If you're really bad at home then do the sensible thing and mention it to your GP, otherwise 100% relax.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #228
i went to my doctor after feeling like i had been run over by a bus when i pointed out that i was a fisherman and could it be wiels as the symptoms seemed the same my doc told me that he had only ever come across 2 cases and in both the people were bleeding from there eyes nose etc.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #227
Lee Merritt was rushed to hospital with Weil's disease last week also Ken I also know of two other angler that have caught it.. The reasons for the low notification rate is due to failure to recognise the disease, A lot of the time its put down to flu. Got to say its not that common but well worth knowing about one of my friends would be dead if it was not for the Dr. that treated him in hospital was an angler they got talking and he put 2 & 2 together.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #226
Good topic and im glad ken is making a full recovery. My heart goes out to anyone who has had it, i know two people over the years who have had it. One was a lad from my army days. We quite often got made to swim through lakes and rivers etc. I would like to make a personal point about it though.
Before eveyone starts wraping up in cotton wool and worrying about catching weils desease, think about this. You could quite easily catch it from taking your rubbish out to the bin, having a picnic with the family next to a lake, or one of the biggest threats, drinking out of bottles at a pub or club, Rats and other rodents are all over the place so its not just when you are fishing. Do you think about where your tins of beans have been sitting when you open them. Probably some warehouse for a few months where mice,rats etc are common ground. In England and Wales, leptospirosis (Weils Desease) is very rare, with an average of 40 cases being reported each year. Since 1996.
Its something that never really enters my mind when fishing, if it was we would all be a bag of nerves. Just have to be careful with personal admin.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #225
There you go print it off laminate it keep it with you
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #223
I will dig my one out and copy it and post it up some time tonight
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #223
Probably easier to make one up yourself mate if you have access to a laminator.
Just back from the hospital, and the docs are still not 100% sure if I have actually contracted Leptospirosis or if it's a Viral infection, either way my Liver and Protein counts are up enough to warrant the intravenous anti biotics.....just need to see how I get on for the rest of the week.....got the district nurse coming round for the next cpl of days to do the drip and canula so at least I don't have to trapse backwards and forwards to the hospital evry day!!
Just like to thank Ken and everyone else who has contributed to this thread, if it wasn't for the info posted in here, I might not have even got as far as the hospital. 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #222
Where can I get one of these cards? I bang on about WD to my mates who all find it highly amusing, people need to be more aware of this danger. I have happily washed my pots and pans in the margins before and then reused them but are alot more vigilant now.
|
|
|
|
Bump to keep this on the first page......
I'm just off to the hospital again for my 2nd dose of anti's for suspected WD.....will find out for definite once I see the micro biologists. but boy have I felt rough over the weekend......
If in doubt...get your ass to A&E .
|
|
|
|
Good to see you on the mend Ken. When i was an external engineer it was some thing that was brought to our attention we all carried card that can be presented to their doctor if symptoms appear. This means they can be diagnosed and treated quickly, reducing the likelihood of severity of infection.
Weils gets all the press but the other one that people like my self that rough shoot as well as clime through fields to get to bits of rivers is Lyme disease. Lyme disease, (borreliosis), is an infection spread to humans by ticks infected with the the borrelia micro-organism. The disease is spread by ticks when they bite the skin in search of blood. The disease is not contagious from an affected person to someone else and not all ticks carry
the bacterium. This occurs at the site of the tick bite 3 to 32 days after being bitten. The rash is red, and may be warm, but is generally painless. (Lyme disease can progress to later stages even in patients who do not develop a rash.) This can also be very nasty.
|
|
|
|
Too much information now.
Kens post 12's a good summary of information, couple this with the hand washes / precautions and it could be a valuable sticky if anybody could put it all together?
Been fishing a venue this weekend with water voles and it makes you a bit paranoid, the amount of stuff you handle when fishing is unreal when you think about it, hang stuff in tree's wherever possible or keep it in your tent, unhooking mats, landing nets and pods etc. are prime areas
Would it be worth mentioning venues of particular attention, as well as raising the anglers awareness it may cause the owners to take some serious action? after all your health is more important then any carp
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #216
This is a very good thread with excellent information as anglers we are at increased risk of catching weils disease but also we should also be aware of lyme's disease which can have very bad side effects and I believe can lay dormant in your system for many years it is caught via the bite of a tick and only about 50% of infected bites show the Bullseye Rash which is a sign of the disease.
I was lucky in that when I was bitten whilst in France last May 09 that about 3 months after I noticed a red rash had appeared on my leg nothing strange in that you may think, except that the rash was a perfect circle about 40mm thick like the outer ring of a bullseye and it was lucky that, that evening whilst reading through threads on this site that a thread mentioned the bullseye rash in conection with lymes disease, it was then I did a search on it on the net and must admit to being very worried after reading what it can do to you, another problem is that very few gp's are lyme literate I actually told my gp what I thought it was so he took blood samples and then had to look up the prescribed treatment to give me. As it turned out 2 weeks anti-biotics are all thats required. So please all make sure that if you do get a tick please make sure you remove it fully and also check the symptoms online as it really is another nasty disease we are at risk from but luckily not as common as most.
Stay safe Dean
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #213
I think any question on this subject can never be thought of as silly. The more people who ask, the more information will be out there
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #213
No. It is not thought to be transferable.
|
|
|
|
KEN.. or any of the others on this subject... Without sounding silly is WEILS transferrable between people?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #211
So sorry to hear that, Gerry. 
Unfortunately the medical profession can only go by the symptoms that present themselves when deciding on a course of treatment. The fact is that Weils presents exactly the same initial symptoms as flu and unless the patient draws to the doctor's attention the fact that he may have been exposed to Weils Disease, then the doctor will in all probability treat the patient for flu.
Our own doctor has a copy of the notification shown in post 104 on our records, and we also carry a similar laminated notice in our wallets and our fishing gear. In addition we carry the same notification in French (as per Luke's post in number 106).
The anti bacterial gel is the same stuff that is used in hospitals (see post 64). It can be obtained by a friendly chemist from the address given.
As for myself, Lee, well I don't think I have ever recovered my full health since catching it in 2005, but I am one of the lucky ones who survived.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #210
Glad you bumped this thread up my one of my pals fishing partner died when they treated him for Flu think it was after he was dead they found out what it was 
SCAR may have more details ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #209
How you doing now Ken?
This has opened my eyes to the dangers of this disease and more should be done to inform ALL anglers of the dangers.
Abit off topic but 6 month ago yesterday, i was bit by a contaminated Mosquito in Florida whilst on one of them air boats on a lake looking for Aligators with my kids, within a week of being home i was seriously ill in hospital with a Brain Virus and our Dr's never had a clue what was wrong with me until the M.O.D returned my blood results.
Its taken nearly 6 month to get back to my old self and even now i still have a few bad days.
We all have to becarefull.
|
|
| | | 8 | | Posts: 589 |  | |
|
In reply to Post #208
This has opened my eyes. Will be approaching things differently now. Why do people who win Fish O Mania always jump in the water at the end. I have just got back from France and was in the water for some pics and to land fish. Glad i have come across this as my knowledge was not up to scratch in this particular area.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #207
So am i right in saying all anti bacteria wipes are strong enough to kill weils disease ?i see in a earlier post that someone uses baby wipes are these strong enough to be effective ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #206
I've always done this as a matter of course over the years and thought it must kill all the nasty bugs that are lying around waiting to infect.
|
|
| | | Beave | | Posts: 15676 |  | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #205
using boiling water should kill off any nastys that maybe lurking
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #204
Sorry to revive an old thread........ 
Do you think boiling water helps against Weils Disease ?
That is, using it to wash pans ect........
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #203
As for the card info thing this is the exact info the EA should have put on the back of the new license this year.
If anyone from the EA is on here please take note and include it next year ( also make the card a reuasble real plastic card that you top up at the posty each year - Smart card style this would cut the need to re supply cards each year )
Spot on post Ken good to bring it to the forfront of anglers minds. The hand gels ae available all over the place these dys and dirt cheap no excuse for not having a bottle or two in your tackle. I have carried at least one on all sessions for the last few years.
|
|
|
|
|
why do people kiss fish FFS if you put somthing to your mouth out of a rat infested water you deserve to catch weils disease....
|
|
|
|
I know that I'm guilty in the past for Kissing fish after capture, and even tried before netting them (different story), but I carry an Antibacterial Gel I got from a Builders Equipment Supplier, to try to reduce the risks. Comes in handy for a couple of reasons. Working as a Store Detective, some of the scroats who we stopped were filthy (and I mean Disgusting), and it does also Kill the Weils disease bacteria.
All food is bagged and Pans etc are never left out out.
I've even got to the stage that my Baccy and Ciggie Papers are kept in the pocket of my combats rather than being left on my Tackle Box
I know that if I do ever get a Flu or Bad Cold I go straight to my Doctors or Local Emergency Clinic and explain the risks of Leptospirosis. Just about the first thing they always do is stick you on a 10 day course of Antibiotics, as opposed to the usual 7day and give you strict warnings that if any symptoms become worse to get back there or to A&E. Thank Goodness I have only ever had to go to A&E once when the flu progressed to a severe Headache. The nurses weren't too happy as they thought I was pulling a fast one, but once explained and they checked in the Big Black Book in the Nurses station were damn happy to keep me in for a nights observation.
Weils disease can be spread by many other rodents and animals, not just Rats.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #200
VERY VERY VERY good thread, I myself have been aware of this disease since i started fishing over 20 years ago. I had it drummed into me by my father to be vigilant about cathing it and he always made sure i kept clean while fishing, and never left anything lying about (food/bait) and i have carried on doing this to this day. But my missus is a nurse so i now get all my hand gels for nothing and there very good too i even wipe my banksticks over with it just for piece of mind.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #199
your questions have been forwarded to them mate and very good ones they are
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #197
As stated in the other thread, sounds a good idea in principle but I feel that there are questions left unanswered that need addressing before considering this product as stated in my post #27 of the thread you link to.
wraith
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #196
hi guys i did post early on in this thread and while at the carp show i found one of these.
now you can protect your self a bit more,and not have to carry water on any venue....
http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=192684
used by our soldiers in the field.if we can get enough interest may be they will do forum members a discount....
|
|
|
|
Right guys...I don't want to get into a row with anyone, so this will be my last word on the subject of a vaccine.
According to the World Health Organisation only ONE vaccine has been licensed in the wold, and that is the one Jim mentions, the Weils Disease and Akiyami Combined Vaccine, developed by Denka Seiken Co Ltd, Tokyo.
The company has NO exportation certificate and the drug is not available outside Japan. It is "possibly" (WHO's word) thought to offer limited protection against three specific LPT serovars out of a known 230. The WHO does not recognise this therapy as an effective vaccination against Weils Disease, though it does acknowledge its use against a tiny number of LPT infections. However, the WHO has not licensed this vaccine for export or for use outside Japan.
This is the ONLY vaccine currently in use in the world and it does not protect against 99% of known serovars and is ONLY available in Japan. China is working on an effective vaccine but admits it is nowhere near finding one as yet.
I am not scaremongering here. I for one would welcome a vaccine with open arms, as would the pharmaceutical industry that stands to make $billions in revenue from the sale of a successful fully licensed vaccine. All I am trying to point out to my French friends is that there is NO current vaccine available in France that is effective protection against Weils Disease.
The WHO states that outside the far east, France has the largest incidence of Weils disease in the western world. If they DID have a vaccine (which they don't) then it's not working.
JIM: this is for you...I am no doctor, but in this instance I think I can say with 100% certainty that the vaccination you have received is NOT going to protect you against Weils Disease. Please continue to take all the necessary precautions to prevent infection...and that goes for everyone both here and abroad.
(It should be noted that lepto infections occur frequently and are always treatable with antibiotics should the infection get so far as to require treatment. Quite often the infection clears up and goes away - often untreated - after causing the patient to suffer nothing more than what appears to be a bad cold. Leptospirosis infection in and of itself is unpleasant but not lethal, whereas Weils - the result of a deepening of the infection - can be lethal. This infection DOES NOT clear up: indeed it worsens and becomes Weils Disease)
Please, guys, do not be sidetracked by this discussion about the availabilty or otherwise of a vaccine. There is NO vaccine licensed for use in Europe. None whatsoever. Next time you see you doctor, ask him and he will tell you the same thing. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep safe out on the bank, or you may end up a dead man walking.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #192
It seems that the real problem with an 'universal' vaccine is that their are so many strains of Lepto so rather like the flue jab any vaccination will only cover for 'regional' strains. Ken and I have chatted via pm on this and quite frankly the whole thing is rather confusing. In our case we have had innoculations and had the certificates that clearly state that it is for Lepto'. I presume that this is for the strains that are prevelant in our area of France (or possibly France as a whole) and may not give protection outside the area concerned. I have copied below an extract on a scientific paper on the subject that I pm'd to ken which possibly explains our situation but not the international one.
"Some people have more risk of catching the disease because of the nature of their job or their lifestyle. En ville, les catégories les plus exposées sont les égoutiers, les éboueurs et les employés des abattoirs. In town, the groups most at risk are sewer, waste handlers and employees of slaughterhouses. A la campagne, les fermiers et les personnes qui vivent à proximité des animaux ou n’ayant pas accès aux mesures de salubrité (absence de canalisation d’assainissement, d’eau potable ou traitée, non utilisation de bottes et gants dans leurs travaux quotidiens…). In the countryside, farmers and people living near the animals or not having access to the safety (lack of pipeline sanitation, drinking water or treated, non-use of boots and gloves in their daily work ...). Par ailleurs, les loisirs d’eau douce comme la pêche, le kayak et la baignade peuvent également comporter un risque. In addition, recreation freshwater fishing, kayaking and swimming may also involve risks. En principe, les catégories professionnelles exposées doivent bénéficier d’une vaccination comme c’est le cas en France par exemple où la leptospirose est considérée comme une maladie professionnelle. In principle, the occupational groups exposed should receive vaccination as is the case in France for example where leptospirosis is considered an occupational disease".
One further point is that as Lepto is a bacterial infection it is rather like Tetanus (bacterial) in as much vaccination is possible.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #193
good point that Anthony ,,rats have a lot to answer for when you think about it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #192
quite worrying when you look back at the great plague of london and to think we arent capable of finding a vaccine for this
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #172
there is not a jab available as far as my gp is concerned at this point in time ,,,,,i had a lenghty chat with him this morning so i must back Ken up on this point.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #185
There is NO vaccine. None, nada, rien, zilch...
1) If there WAS a viable vaccine do you not think the world and its wife would be queuing up to get it?
2) If there WAS a viable vaccine do you not think the pharmaceutical license holder would not be pushing it like crazy so as to get its hand on the filthy lucre?
look here...again!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #189
ive read post 12 now sounds really nasty. Glad your ok now Ken mate
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #188
look at post 12
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #187
how do you know if you got the disease. What symptoms should you look out for
Edit
Ive read back down the thread a bit more now so its flu like symptoms you have to look out for
|
|
|
|
glad your on the mend ken, how do they think you managed to catch it?
handy tip for all you folks out there using gels to clean hands, instead of rubbing your hands with flavour after washing just put a couple of drips of any concentrate flavours or essential oils into the gel, that way u wont smell like the NHS when you come to bait up!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #185
always!! when i asked the pharmacist my wife works for, he said, apart from a sos bracelet, that confirms you may have been in contact with weil's, (given to some ground workers) the best advice he could give was "prevention is the best cure"!! what more can you say!!
ron..
|
|
|
|
so the vaccine available only gives partial protection?
seems to me then that prevention rather than cure is still the best option.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #183
Hi Jim:
Your PM answered and your specific points (hopefully) addressed, including the point you raised that in Japan they appear to have developed a working vaccine. I pointed out that this vaccine "may" give a degree of protection against just three of the 230 different lepto/Weils bacterium.
Vaccines against Lepto/Weils for animals have been tried on humans with lethal results. Not to be recommended at all
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #182
Ken. I have pm'd you some more information that seems to relate to the vaccinations we had.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #181
Hi Ken.
It has been common for dogs, cattle and the like to be immunized against lepto worldwide and if you look at the attached info from the World Health Org. you will see that human vaccination is possible and practised but not without problems. It seems that there are so many strains of Lepto that immunisation can only be done against the known local/regional types. This is news to me but explains why the vaccine had to specially ordered for us.
The following is copied from the WHO information sheet.
Human protection How can humans be protected?
Much depends on detailed knowledge of how, where and when humans may become
infected in a particular area. One possibility is to increase awareness of the disease
among the population, risk groups and health care providers, so that the disease can
be recognized and treated as soon as possible. Doxycycline has been reported to give
some protection against infection and disease. In certain countries, vaccines for
humans are available, but it should be remembered that they may only provoke
immune responses to the serovars included in the vaccine (see Human immunization,
below and Annex 3 for further and more detailed information).
Human
Immunization
How can humans be protected by immunization?
Immunization by means of vaccines seems to provide a certain degree of protection.
Vaccines are, in principle, suspensions of killed leptospires. Protection is largely
serovar-specific. In areas where many serovars are causing leptospirosis, a vaccine
HUMAN LEPTOSPIROSIS: GUIDANCE FOR DIAGNOSIS, SURVEILLANCE AND CONTROL
24
Human
immunization
must consist of different serovars matching those circulating locally. In some countries,
e.g. China, where many serovars occur, vaccines consist of a mixture of a few of the
most prevalent. Protective antibodies are produced only against the serovars present in
the particular vaccine us
|
|
|
|
There seems to be this belief by the French medical profession that you can vaccinate against Weils Disease. YOU CANNOT...and that is a FACT. I don't know what vaccination you have had Jim, but it ain't against Weils Disease. (possibly against typhoid or dysentry or some other water bourne bug).
The fact is that...NO CURRENT VACCINE HAS BEEN LICENSED FOR EUROPEAN USE
If such a vaccine existed do you not think farmers, sewage workers and anglers all over the world would be clamoring for it?
The French seem to think that Lepto/Weilds is a virus...Well it bloody well isn't! Weils Disease is caused by bacteria and you cannot vaccinate "against" a bacterial infection. All you can do it treat the infection once it has found a host, usually with powerful antibiotics.
Sorry if you think I am being a scare monger, Jim, but you are not protected.
look here
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #178
im not going all the way to france for that!! 
tell me, is it freely available out there? or do you have to pay for it?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #177
No problem Brian....................just go and have the jabs mate 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #176
then i stand corrected & apologise oldfellah if it sounded like i was suggesting you didn`t know what you was talking about.
i now amend my statement to:
as far as im aware, there is no vaccine available for the general public,in the uk, on the national health service, for the prevention of weils disease.
again, i stand to be corrected on that..............
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #175
I can assure you that a vaccine has existed for some time for Weils desease (leptospirosis) and both I and my son had had the jabs. I also have spoken to a fish farming friend and several other lake owner friends over here in France and they have now had the jabs also. Whether the UK health system is up to speed on this I cannot say but it really is worth a call to find out.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #174
then decide to save themselves a fortune & just tell everyone "dont touch rat piss....."
fair point that 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #173
surely with all of our govt experts a vaccine would have been developed a long time ago.......
personally, i`d have thought they would look at the cost of producing a vaccine,
look at how many people are affected by it each year,
then decide to save themselves a fortune & just tell everyone "dont touch rat piss....."
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #171
although if a vaccine for humans is available now, then i stand corrected.
hey, what do i know? surely with all of our govt experts a vaccine would have been developed a long time ago.......
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #169
just off the phone from the doctors regarding the jab against the disease,,they are gonna get back to me this morning so i will let you know the outcome ,,got to be worth getting ,,
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #170
& as far as im aware, ken is correct.
although if a vaccine for humans is available now, then i stand corrected.
i think oldfellah was suggesting it would be a good idea without actually knowing one way or another.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #169
post 92 from ken reads........
Yes, you are correct, no vaccine exists, contrary to some opinions.
that leaves me a bit confused you see bryan
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #168
in·oc·u·late (-nky-lt)
tr.v. in·oc·u·lat·ed, in·oc·u·lat·ing, in·oc·u·lates
1. To introduce a serum, vaccine, or antigenic substance into (the body of a person or animal), especially to produce or boost immunity to a specific disease.
got a jab, to you & me!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #167
whats innoculated oldfella read this elsewhere last night but there was only the term and not the meaning
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #166
Lots of good advice Ken but surely the mosr eefective way to ensure this horrible desease is not a threat is simply get innoculated against it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #165
Anthony: I guess it is virtually impossible to avoid contact with possibly contaminated water. Each time you pick up a fish for the pic, when you handle the west net, sling or sack; there are many situations in day to day carp fishing when it is inevitable that the angler comes in contact with water.
I think what we have tried to do in this thread is remind anglers of the risks involved and how to try to prevent infection. Should the bacteria take hold - and remember it only rarely does so - we have outlined the symptoms and the necessary course of action to take if you think you have been affected.
I would imagine many anglers are attacked by the leptospirosis bacteria every year but only a small percentage go on to catch the Disease. We live in a risky world and avoiding risk is just about impossible. That said, things like washing your hands in the lake, or pouring a bucket of water over someone certainly do not help reduce the risk.
I am now a firm believer of taking precautions against the bacteria as I never want to go through that illness again...EVER! It was horrible and at one stage instead of thinking I was going to die, I was actually hoping I was!.
So to sum up: Yes we are all at risk, and though the risk is slight, it is foolish to think that it will not happen to you.
Therefore:
1) Take the precautions outlined previously, including frequent use of an anti-bacteria wipe or gel.
2) If you think that you have been put at risk and start to feel a bit chesty and heady with the flu coming on, BE AWARE that it might not be flu and get yourself to the dotor's lickety-split. 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #163
from a journalists point of view ken do you think that the other writers/ editors should stop telling people that washing their hands in lake water before handling their baits should be stopped? from my point of view i used to do this a lot but felt the need wasnt there so stopped doing it, what with working with masonry a lot i usually end up with a good handfull of cuts on my hands between monday and friday
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #163
maybe as a thought we could have the posts of your pics at the top to show the importance of this thread ,,
|
|
|
|
|
This thread is now 163 posts long...To anyone coming to the thread for the 1st time and thinking, well I'll just read a page or two, please read it from post 1...It will open you eyes, I can tell you!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #160
Bravo fella, if everyone keeps posting little titbits like that then eventially we'll have a thread that has all the info you'll need
wraith
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #159
DP
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #159
hi wraith i got this fact sheet from a fishery management course run by the EA some time last year.will also try to find the link.....
Weil's Disease? (Leptospirosis)
Weil's disease is an infection carried in rats urine which contaminates water and banks of lakes, ponds and rivers.
The disease which is notifiable is serious and requires hospital treatment. Symptoms start 3 to 19 days after exposure to contaminated water.
Early symptoms are similar to 'Flu'A few sensible precautions
DO cover with waterproof plasters or gloves all scratches, cuts, sores and breaks in the skin. Disinfect any wounds soon as possible if they occur
whilst at the waterside.
ALWAYS wash your hands or cover food with a wrapper before you eat.
NEVER put your hand to your mouth after immersion in river water and never place bait or fishing line in the mouth.
DON'T touch any dead animal especially rats.
NEVER leave food, groundbait or bait on the bankside.AND ALWAYS TAKE YOUR RUBBISH HOME!!!!
An attack of Weil's Disease resembles a cold or flu in the initial stages. The incubation period is from 3 to 19days
Early Symptoms are: Fever, Muscular aches and pains, loss of appetite, nausea when lying down.
Later Symptoms may include: Bruising of the skin, Sore eyes, Nose bleeds, Jaundice.
The fever lasts for approximately five days, then a significant deterioration follows.
|
|
|
|
Surprising how many people seem to have come into contact with Weils Disease, yet even more surprising that there's (to my knowledge) not a fact sheet been produced targeted specifically at anglers...?
wraith
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #156
I had this last year, it certainly makes you think more about what you are doing on the bank!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #156
i no all to well about this as work with raw sewage every day i have to carry a green card incase i become ill
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #155
Agreed bourbon, i'm very guilty 
i know its bad, bud giving your dad a soaking after hes banged out the lake record is a must!!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #149
How many of us still put our boilie stops in our mouth when changing bait,?
im guilty as charged, i do it every bloody time
lesson learnt now
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #152
ken hope you are getting better mate, this is one disease i do hate.
I work for a drainage firm, for 18 years and most of the time i spend about 5-6 hours in the sewer
i have to clean my breathing apparatas all the time change clothes and shower 3 times a day.
we have a blood test done every 4 months company rules, IF WE GOT A COLD OR FLU we had to go straight to A&E.
my mate when't throu the same thing.
if you get in touch with your local environmental health they will send you a
pdf fife on leptospirosis,
think it would come in hand, if the mods sent it to all the newbeis that sign on to
the forum by e-mail.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #152
Good point Ken,
Always see it on french trips...seems to be the 'thing to do'
Hopefully this thread and the PDF will put things like this into perspective.
Matty
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #151
And how about the plonkers who pour a bucket of water all over their mate as he poses with a biggie?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #149
You've hit the nail on the head there... people who are aware of the disease do take some precauctions, but Don't realise they put theirselves at risk in other ways... Like you say, puttly boilie stops in your mouth, wetting line with your saliva to bed down knots, kissing a fish for the picture, there are these any many more ways we neglect to realise are putting ourselves at risk...
wraith
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #149
good point ,,not many after this thread lets hope
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #148
Some great info on this thread ,But i wonder ,How many of us still put our boilie stops in our mouth when changing bait,?
|
|
|
|
|
brilliant thread this one, what an eye opener and some brilliant tips for those of us who know nothing of this disease
|
|
|
|
All of us at www.master-baits.co.uk are only to happy to help draw attention to this disease and the harsh reality it can cause if contracted and we think that if we all work together as an angling community ,especially on this, the premier carp related forum on the planet we can slowly but surley help to stop people catching this disease.Would like to thank Wraith for taking the time to write the article and everyone else who contributes to help in this matter ..
Regards Mally
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #145
Glad we could be of assistance James
Whilst the threat may not be huge, its still a threat and as we all know rats are everywhere around our lakes/rivers/canals.
Matty
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #143
Thanks for that Ken.
I have to admit, you inspired me to write the article as seeing the 'before' and 'after' photos of you were most concerning.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Mally & Matt from master-baits for offering to host the finished PDF so it was available FREE to anyone who wanted it, thankyou gents...
wraith
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #143
I agree totally. Most fisheries have signs up from the environment agency stating that a rod licence is needed and yet have rat traps set up with no warning of the potential harm. I am sure that some fisheries may not want to make it known that rats inhabit the place but surely there is a duty of care here. Could it be that such signs relating to rats equals less profit ! !
|
|
|
|
|
Nice one, James. The more we can do as a community to draw to the attention of other anglers the dangers of this disease the better.
|
|
|
|
On the master-baits website down the left side there is a page titled 'Weils', if you go to the page therer is a PDF that can be downloaded...
If you know of any younger anglers then maybe a good idea to hand them a copy..? May also be a fair idea to laminate a couple and ttick them up on the fishery..?
Hope the PDF is of help...?
wraith
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #140
Some years ago when we was kids a group of us went camping on Ilkley moor.
One of our friends was messing around near a little stream decided to cool our drinks in the water and put them in in a net bag.
After a couple of days of been home we all started feeling really poorly .
our friends mum phoned to say that he had been taken to hospital and that anyone who was not well should attend too.
It turned out that this was the same disease, we all recovered but our friend was really poorly i think it had caused kidney problems and was always in and out of hospital
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #119
Its good that Ken has raised this issue as it has been a cause of many deaths over the years amongst people working in and around water. I understand that over here in France it was a regular cause of death amongst fish farmers in the past so cannot be taken lightly. Both my son and I have been innoculated against the desease and would suggest that for any other lake owners and regular anglers should consider this avenue of prevention. Over here it cost about 100 euro's each for the 2 injections but it may be that in the UK it could be available on the NHS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
good post ken
as you say its the kinda thing that only happens untill its your turn.
im expecting a major rodent problem this year down my local as the council are turning the surounding fields into a country park inc football pitches and youth areas 
so worth thinking about a sign up warning anglers and a card for the wallet and car.
as you say a tread that needs no be read from start to finish.
|
|
|
|
There is a product made by Diawa (I think) called Anglers Hands that kills the weils desease virus... it's £2.99 and cleans your hands (if I recall) 200 times.... well worth the investment....
wraith
EDIT:
As a heads up I'd like to add it is not only rats that pass on this desease... Leptospirosis is transmitted to humans by contact with the urine of rats, cattle, foxes, rodents and other wild animals
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Great thread i like the card idea gonna make myself some a friend of a friend 5 years ago on a 3 week fishing holiday in France unknowingly caught this terrible disease and sadly by the time it was realised it was too late he died
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #134
we studied it in biology at school as im doing TRIPLE science  . pretty nasty, glad you all ok ken
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #133
Well I went to the drop in centre, got 7 days worth of antibiotics, and I need to book an appointment with my gp to get a blood test done, it is highly unlikely but I am defiantly in the at risk category. So much better safe than sorry.
Next purchase will be a first aid kit and some hand gel.
Ohh and a 22" rifle!
:edit: It would definatly be beneficial to stickie this thread in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #132
follow the advice go too a&e,i wouldnt be waiting for a fone call from dodgy direct.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #130
I hate rat's! just rang nhs direct to find my nearest drop in centre, they are ringing me back in in an hour or so and i'm pressuming they will advise me further then. Whatever happens i will make sure i get some antibiotics tnite.
god dame vermin! 
|
|
| | | mal | | Posts: 8911 |  | |
|
|
i agree on both counts - go to A and E asap, and well done ken on bringing this back to attention.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #127
not worth the risk get to the AE asap
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #127
Drop what youre doing and go to hospital now!.It really isnt worth the wait until monday,please act now  .
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #127
Call a emergency doctor or go to the hospital.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #126
An old thread I know but after just reading through it I'm quite frankly poo'ing myself!
I went fishing midweek this week, in the middle of the night I was woken by a run, to my surprise it was a pike (17lb or so) that was trailing a trace from its mouth.
When I got the fish on the mat I retrived what was left of my rig and noticed the trace sticking out of its mouth, I didn't know it was a steel trace at the time so I grabbed hold of it wrapped it round my hand to hold it still then the pike went ballistic flipping all over the place managed to get it under control get the trace out of its mouth and returned it. It was then that I realised that the steel trace had given me a nasty gash on my finger! anyway disinfected the cut with Clinique (didn't have any plasters) and thought no more of it.
This morning I started to feel a bit ruff, weak, tierd and my legs and lower back started to ache, its gradually got worse and now it’s quite annoying!
I know it’s a case of overinflating my paranoia by self diagnosing; a head ache becomes a brain tumour when you look it up on-line e.t.c. I'm quite concerned that I have may have this horrible weil’s thingy, everything I can think of points towards it, I don't know/haven’t been in contact with anybody with a cold/flu and there were rats everywhere at the place I was fishing.
I don't fancy sitting in casualty and obviously I will have to wait till Monday to get an appointment with my g.p. I fear I may be better being safe rather than sorry and going to somewhere and explaining my situation and getting a blood test and antibiotics. Don’t want to end up.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #125
cheers will have a look in a bit.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #124
You can buy it from "Complete Feet" on line or phone 0800 6335199 and it is £2.95 for 150 ml. (or it was last time I checked) hope that helps.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #123
i will keep an eye out for it. or beg at the gp's.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #120
hand cleaning gel here i come
Try to get hold of the industrial strength versions, the ones they use in hospitals, dental surgeries etc. The supermarket versions are nothing like as efffective. The Desderman gel is as good as it gets!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #121
After reading this thread, people would be stupid to ignore your advice
As I said in the initial post, people always this it will never happen to them...Think again!
It is an awful disease and I have not fully recovered more than three years later, as my liver has been permanantly affected. It's grim so be aware.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #119
Blimey
Excellent thread Ken, very informative. Your pictures have really made me think about this. Like you say, you don't think of such things happening to you but as of NOW, I am really going to take into account everything I touch when fishing and how I store food, drink etc.
I do not expect any of them to take a blind bit of notice of an old fogie like me
After reading this thread, people would be stupid to ignore your advice
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #119
thank for bringing this up Ken.
i have been fishing for a good number of years. and never knowen anyone that has had this, so have never given it much thought. one of thouse you hear about it but it dosn't directly affect you.
well ive just read this and it make you think twice. hand cleaning gel here i come .
|
|
|
|
MODS: I thought now might be a timely moment to bump this thread...I know there is a sticky in the Foreign Venues section, but IMHO this thread has more impact and more general information. Now is the time of year when the kids are out in force, and while I do not expect any of them to take a blind bit of notice of an old fogie like me, well, we can but try.
WEILS DISEASE - BE AWARE
Can I suggest to members who have joined within the past year or so to read this thread from Post 1?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #117
My fishing buddy is always going on about catching Weils Disease and constantly washing his hands. I on the other hand have to admit that I'm likely to be eating my sandwiches 10mins after catching a fish... 
I've always told him to quit worrying, but thats because I grew up on a swill fed pig farm which was covered in rats... Didnt even now about Weils back then..However, had a text off him 3 days after a 24hr carp session early this week. He was in hospital with suspected Weils Disease...couldnt believe it....On morphine for two days and as rough as an old dog..Good news is that he's not got it just a viral stomach complaint, but it may have been picked up on the bank??
Will now take more care as it's a real killer if not caught early and I could do without the hassle...Wet wipes all round...
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #116
A friend if a guy I know fell in at Redesmere and got a reed stalk stuck up his ass and he caught weils disease from it 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #115
My GF came back from South America with Mushroom Fungus growing in her stomach......
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #114
just a thought on a similar subject
Amoebas!!!!! They can be a bitch! I've had this infection four times times now from workinhg in the south American rain forests. Easy to cure with the correct drugs, but you you do not want to be far from the toiet when you first get it.
you also need to have a checkup when you get home as they can be around for years and can cause liver problems.
|
|
|
|
I always feel ill when I'm on my way home, after fishing - but I usually feel better once I reach home.
Is that a symptom?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #104
Great topic lads, I came back from France and within five days was in hospital. Best advice if you have any symptoms like flu GET to the doctors. Ironic thing was that the lakes were cleaner and rats were far fewer then most of the lakes I fish in England.
PS LADS THE MOSSIES ARE BAD THIS YEAR
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #111
Thanks for some sound advice guys, I always carry a couple of rat traps with me and set them up in my swim to try to kill as many as I can, I caught 12 on my last trip, I then put them in a bag for disposal. I know I'm not making any difference really but the less in my swim the better.
I always clean my hands with water, baby wipes then dry them and clean them with anti bacterial gel each and every time I do anything that involves touching items lying around outside, including net,sling,mat etc.
How many times while you are asleep do you think rats are running around over these items.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #104
Very sound advice Ken. Very simple to design these cards by most people on your pc. Sorry to hear about your mother. I realise how heartbreaking it must be for you and the family Ken having experienced Alzheimers in my family and being a nurse in this field.
Regards,
Alex.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #107
good to hear you got over it,i was at a fishery down here in cornwall today and saw a laminated sign warning of the disease but never knew how serious it really was,thanks for taking the time to put the info up,i for one will be extra carefull on the banks from now on.adam
|
|
|
|
|
I can't see the picture in kens post as works computers have been modified for the worst , but we have cards that are generally given out to all site opperatives in our safety hand book as in the construction game, especially in london, it is considered a high risk. Whilst working in bishopsgate, I used to pass a "cafe" and on many occassions, you'd see a rat happily munching on bread rolls left in the shop after closing
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #105
Alright fellas, can't sort the Polish for you mate unfortunatley, but here it all is in French for you.
( be a stratergy move to have it on the back if anyone's making their own cards up! 4x the risk here!!)
NOTICE POUR LE MEDECINE
Au cas ou, vous me trouvez avec des symptomes de Grippe, ou en condition plus grave...
SVP, Faites moi le test de la Bacterie "LEPTOSPIROSIS".
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #104
cheers Ken now i just have to find out what weils disease is in Polish !! Yes they dont use latin names here, makes the doctors a nightmare.
we dont have rat problems on lakes as they have a lot of predators but i am not taking any chances
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #103
Hi Luke: NIce to hear from you again. Mum's at last in a home now her Alzheimer's has got so bad so maybe I'll be able to get out to your pIace sometime?
I carry one of these 4"x 2" laminated notices in my wallet, my fishing tackle box and my car.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #102
That's excellent news, So anyone of us could simply, ask the doctor, and obtain a card which could one day save your life!
(would be good to have them even more available,as Paul suggests)
You may well have told me about that card a while back Nick, would explain where the idea come from !
My memory is shot to bits fella, can't think why.....
|
|
|
|
|
nick, luke, the weils information cards for anglers is a great idea, maybe tackle shops should sell them or make them available. i always carry mine with me as i was issued one whilst i worked on the railways.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #99
Elo m8,doing great thanks,hows life in sunny france?. Always give you a beep as we fly past on our way south!, keep meaning to pop in for a social but on the way out im always keen to get angling and on the way back it seems im always flat out trying to make the ferry on time, lol.This year tho i promise il stop and say hello.My card was given to me by the doctors m8,like a credit card it is and advises how im at high risk because of my profession. i carry it with my permits and licences to this day
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #98
Hey Nick, how ya doing mate...
So did you make your own card up then?
Best keep it in your wallet mate! as if your found they will look through your wallet for help, but I doubt if they would rumage through all the kit.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #97
I had it meself in 87, at the time they thought i had meningitis when i collapsed shortly after returning from fishing, it was only cos of my young age at the time that i feel i got through it.Was given a lumberpuncture(not nice to say the least but that was the least of my problems) and spent 2 weeks very seriously ill in hospital. it wasnt until a smart doctor suggested leptospiral jaundice that they had any idea what was actually wrong with me. been carrying a card in my kit indicating the risk ever since. Back then we always had signs that rodents had been eating the fat from the frying pan but thought that a few minutes over a burner would kill anything dodgy. Got to say im a little bit more carefull nowadays!.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #96
Well done for bringing it into the spot light Keneth...
I told you some time ago you were the bloke to make people aware of it fella, 1st hand experience and all that.!
I too had a freind who died form Weils here in France(incedently, France is one of the highest risk countries), it took 5 days to kill him! he had eaten food that a rat had pissed on so it was a direct hit! he deteriated rapidly and died in hospital!!
WHY?..... well I''ll tell you, The reason he died,is because the doctors had no idea what was wrong with him, and thats it!
He had the flu symptoms and all that, left it because suspected nothing, then wound up in a coma(spelling?) and was unable, obviously at that stage to inform doctors of his last movements.
If they had known he was out on the river night fishing, then they may have looked in the right direction.
As I said to you a while back Ken, and I still think it''s an idea that would work....
If all anglers carried an information card in their wallet (like a credit card size)or an alternative format, which mentioned the fact that they are effectivley a potential candidate for Weils disease due to their activities in high risk areas.
This would eliminate the risk of the victims found with advanced symptoms being unable to inform the doctors of what they have been upto, and in turn saving their lives, by saving time with diagnosis.!
The money raised by the sale of these information cards, could be used to increase awareness of the problem amongst anglers, via the angling press, and forums such as this one.
Put it this way... I would have no problem paying 2/3 quid for the info card myself, knowing that it could save my life if I was found in a swim some where, and unable to let the doctors know what I had been up to.
It would cover you for every country, as medical terms are international.
What d''ya reckon?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #95
Important thread Ken. I know a lad who got it and luckily recovered. Nice to see you also made a full recovery mate
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #93
I seem to remember reading the same article.....I bought a metal stone type thing (from one of those granny mags you get in the sunday papers) which helps to remove all traces of odour from your hands.....if only i remembered to take it fishing with me
I have found that rubbing a few pellets in your hands for a minute or two will help mask most smells
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #91
I cant for the life of me remember which mag i read it in Ken. It was a well known angler basically saying that he thought that any foreign smells on the hooklength, hookbait, tubing, etc would put the fish off. He didnt just say hand gels either, he mentioned marker pens, deodrants, aftershave, hand creams, sun block, insect repellant spray,etc. Basically anything that could get on your hands and leave a scent. Iam going to trawl through my magazines and try and find the article if its the last thing i ever do. 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #90
Have you any notice of others anglers whit same problems
There is a very good article in this months Carpworld, if you can get hold of a copy in Italy.
Yes, you are correct, no vaccine exists, contrary to some opinions.
As for Roberto, I guess that is up to him to suggest an article. I cannot dictate to any of my editors what I will write...They tell me: not the other way round!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #84
that stated that there use was detremental to peoples catch rates due to the scent it left on your hookbait, pva bags, terminal tackle,
I can put my hand on my heart here and tell you truthfully that the gel I use (Desderman) has never had a negative effect on my fishing. It is true that a slight flowery smell lingers after the gel has evaporated but this soon wears off. I use the stuff by the bucketful and have had no problems along these lines whatsoever.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #69
ken really happy to see your second picture.........
I read that 10% do not have choise, and this is really fear %.
Have you any notice of others anglers whit same problems?
Talking whit my doctor told me that no vaccin exists and the conseguences could really be fear whit a lots of noises.....
Ken could I asck you to dedicate some space in Pescarecarpfishing, scurely Roberto will support you in an articol to this deticated.
regard to you, and be carfull to all of you mate's
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #88
i hard its like the flue so if you go to the docs tell them your a fisherman and spend time on the bank because when you start to turn yellow you have had it
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #85
One of my close mates took his younger cousin fishing for the first time at a lake in Hertfordshire. The little  decided it be fun to jump in and caught Weils disease. His liver and kidneys packed in and he was taken to great ormond street where he was on paralasis for nearly a week before he came good, bit of a close shave that 1 !
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #84
me,
never heard of this before, will think twice about my hygeine when on the banks,
thanks for the heads up on this one chaps, great information
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #82
I too use an antibacterial gel when im fishing but recently read an artical that stated that there use was detremental to peoples catch rates due to the scent it left on your hookbait, pva bags, terminal tackle, etc. Cant remember where i read the article now. Dont get me wrong im not advocating that people should not use any form of hygeine, just that if possible they should seek methods other than alcohol based hand gels.
Great Thread, Very Informative
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #81
I've just got myself a bottle of Cutan ( Think thats what its called) 72p per bottle when ordered through work. Good old NHS
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #80
moses is the little spray bottle an alcohol based 1 as we have them at my work
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #78
Very good thread!!! i will definatly think twice before wading out my bait!!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
very good thread
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #69
Cheers ken the pharmacist has just ordered me a bottle..
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #69
hi guys if anybody has trouble obtaining any suitable gels or liquids to use whilst fishing pm me,i can obtain a number of different hand rubs which are ideal for this purpose.i personally use a small spray which comes with a clip that is ideal to hang from the bivvy door you soon get use to using it, as do most people who come to my swim!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #66
Ooooops...DP
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #66
Contact details:
Schülke & Mayr UK Ltd.,
Cygnet House,
1 Jenkin Road,
Meadowhall,
Sheffield, S9 1AT.
Tel +44 (0) 114 254 3500
Fax +44 (0) 114 254 3501
mail.uk@schulke-mayr.com
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #65
Almost certainly
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #64
My missus works in a pharmacy will she be able to order it?????????
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #62
The commercially available gels are OK but if you know anyone in the medical profession this is the stuff you want. You may even be able to persuade your GP to get a few bottles for you if you tell him that you are at risk of catching Weil's when you are fishing.
|
|
|
|
|
i carry a bottle of hand gel (simalar to the stuff outside hospital wards) 'cos you can never be to carefull. ive lost count how many times ive seen somone catch a fish, release it, wash their hands in the lake and carry on making a cup of tea. this stuff only cost me about £3 from Tesco. well worh the money
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #60
Because of my work being in and around water i'm required to have a vaccination. Will check if it covers Weils disease. Pretty sure it does. Will find out as soon as back at work.
Right then, checked with work and I was wrong the vaccination does not cover weils disease. Sorry i should of checked before.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #59
As far as I am aware there is no human vaccine.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #58
The most positive solution to avoid getting weils disease is to get a vaccination from your local GP. As far as i'm aware it'll cost a couple of pennies but it's better than possibly kicking the bucket!
|
|
|
|
Ken,excellent thread
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #55
I heard that the disease is only in the water for about 30 seconds after a rat has urinated. Is this true?
No, it's NOT true. The bacteria can last indefinitely in wet or damp conditions. It is only destroyed by being dried out by direct sunlight
Don't forget, it can last on wet slings, sacks and nets too so don't think you are safe just because you are not by the lakeside
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #55
Cheers for the alert on this disease Ken and glad to hear you've fully recovered. Just thought I'd give you guys a medical discription from a link I found on google. Hope it helps.
'' Weil's disease is an infection that humans can catch from rats. Rats carry and excrete an organism called Leptospira ictero-haemorrhagiae in their urine. Between 50 and 60% of all rats carry this organism. If humans are infected with this organism, it can make them very ill and even result in death. As many as 10% of all cases of human infection have resulted in death.
Previously, Weil's disease only infected people such as sewage or abattoir workers, although there have also been incidents of farm workers and miners contracting the disease. New research shows that people who perform water activities, such as cavers and potholers, are also at risk. Rats commonly live near water and other areas where they can find food, such as farms, stables and riverbanks. The organism that causes Weil's disease in humans cannot live for very long in dry conditions, but it can survive for some length in wet or damp areas. Salt water will kill off the organism.
The organism that causes Weil's disease enters the body through cuts, blisters or abrasions in the skin. It can also enter via the lining of the nose or through the throat or alimentary tract. Weil's disease begins with a fever, followed by muscular aches and pains. Loss of appetite and vomiting follow. The incubation period for Weil's disease is 7 to 13 days.
The sufferer may experience bruising of the skin, nose bleeds, sore eyes and jaundice. The fever lasts about a week and is usually followed by significant deterioration. The symptoms of Weil's disease can easily be mistaken for flu. If the sufferer has a clean occupation, the possibility of Weil's disease may be overlooked in the early stages, but a blood test will confirm the diagnosis of Weil’s disease. Treatment for Weil's disease is usually a penicillin antibiotic.
Weil's disease is curable if detected in time. Many doctors in urban areas many not be familiar with the disease. If you have any reason to suspect that you have been infected, you should alert your doctor as soon as possible. ''
|
|
|
|
|
I heard that the disease is only in the water for about 30 seconds after a rat has urinated. Is this true?
|
|
|
|
|
good to hear you've recovered, invaluble advice too
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #45
glad to hearyour ok now ken
we got rats the size of greyhounds on our local pit im going fishing with a protective suit from now on
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #51
I went to my local water today - rats everywhere - i dont think i could handle doing a night on the place if it is this bad with the bloody things
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #50
its not only rats that can carry it either...cattle can too..
hygeine is the best preventative
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #13
//5. From a cigarette that may have fallen to the ground or by smoking a cigarette from packet left on the ground where a rat may have passed urine under or on the packet overnight or while you were away from your swim.
…… that even after they are dead their potential for harm lives on in the urine they have deposited.//
Good advice this.
A chap who fishes my local pond contracted weils diesease after picking up a dead rat during a work party. It was thought it was passed on because he smoked roll-up cigarettes.
As per Ken, he was at deaths door for a while and lost a fair bit of weight in the process.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #43
i can only see one photo ken
Post #1
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
when the foot mouth epedmic was around i took my dog sam for a walk by my house he drank from a puddle at the side of the road wich was infected six months latter although treated by the vet he died he was a springer spainel and a brill gun dog its a vile illness and one that i never want to see again . there seems to be more rats arround than ever , i wish anglers not all, some would take there litter home but i notice on some waters litter problem is getting worse your very lucky to survive ken most die if not caught in the early stages
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #42
i can only see one photo ken ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #39
i think all forum member"s should take note of ken"s expereience , not plesent at all.to see him like that in the first photo was shocking, gladly he got over it eventually and i will certainly,be taking heed of his advice
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #39
thanks mark i am eating my lunch
|
|
|
|
I typed out something yesterday but it wouldn't post so here goes again..........
For all you guys that like a social, and especially those visiting commercials in france.
When you are enjoying yourself on the bankside, having the odd beer etc, remember every time you reach for that bottle thats been in the crate outside your bivvy all night. Whilst you've been in the land of nod, Mr Roland may well have been climbing over your beer bottles and leaving his urine all over them without your knowledge....... and you've just stuck it straight in your mouth
It has happened before to two guys from the Romford area at a well known complex, one of which is sadly no longer with us
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #36
the tossers that leave their litter around lakes and attract rats take note
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #34
A mate of mine took his family to the Norfolk Broads on a boating/fishing holiday and ended up nearly loosing his then very young daughter.
She got the dreaded and spent ages in hospital and had to have a blood transfusion and her urine went black ,it was touch and go for a while but thank god she pulled through,she was lucky you might not be so take the hygene part of it very seriously when on the banks.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #34
bloody hell ken you dont realise how bad the disease is untill you have read your own experience from it.ps hope feeling alot better now
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #31
remember years ago my dad telling me of a lad on a water near me that did not.
A young farm hand who drinks in the same pub as me caught it about a year before me and he didn't make it either, poor lad. I think most peeps who are associated with the water industry - sweage workers, fish farmers etc - are fully aware of the risks and take precautions yet we anglers, who are just as much at risk do not.
In Victorian times when rat catchers were employed the disease was called Rat Catcher's Yellow.
It's bad news chaps so take heed or it could be you looking like death warmed up
|
|
|
|
Jesus didnt realise it was that bad .
Cant stand the furry things myself , makes you thing twice about leaving cooking stuff etc outside your bivvy on a night
Fished a few rat holes in the past and when you see them running around your pod etc this thread really brings things into perspective , have they pissed on it
I suppose there everywhere and i agree the best way forward is to eliminate as many as possible and better managed fisheries do , some of the ones ive been to in the past though . . . breed em
Nice to hear you made a fully recovery mate as i always remember years ago my dad telling me of a lad on a water near me that did not. Good luck mate
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #29
yea make it a sticky mods.nice one ken
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #21
I am posting again to get this thread back to the top...come on, guys...start to listen. Get real...THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU
The 2 pix should really make you sit up and take notice.
Sticky, possibly Mods?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #16
Yeah...it's the "before" and "after" pix that bring it all home, Bait-Buff. Still all's well now, thanks.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #14
Oh my god now with that comparison it really does show how bad it is!!!
Glad you are ok now Ken.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #13
Thanks thats the kind of thing. The symptoms sound unpleasent to say the least. Hope this makes a few people think.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #12
This one any better Brian? It took the best part of 28 months for me to fully recover and at one stage my missus was told to expect the worst. I was a very lucky lad! Take care out there
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #9
ahhh oh my god do you end up looking like that? 
Oh sorry you are talking about the weight loss.
On a serious note, people don't take enough precautions and as Ken has said it can lead to devastation consequences. The number of times I have seen people washing up with lake water amazes me. Just a case on people not thinking i suppose.
P.S Small selection of chocolate bars behind you then ken.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #7
Weil’s Disease is a bacterial infection caused by the Leptospirosis bacterium, and is spread by the urine of rats. Now that summer is with us these vermin will be proliferating like mad, spreading the risk of infection far and wide.
The bacteria usually enter your body via cuts to the skin, or via the nose, mouth and alimentary tract. Thus anyone coming into contact with or swallowing infected water will be at risk.
Note that infected water does not have to look iffy to pose a risk. However, water, which does appear polluted, or the sight of rats on the bankside or in the water, is a strong warning that the water is probably contaminated. As anglers we cannot avoid coming into contact with contaminated water but you should be aware that the problem exists.
An attack of Weil’s Disease usually resembles a cold or flu in its early stages. The incubation period is 3-21 days but can be longer (up to 30 days or even longer) in some extreme cases. The early signs are a yellowing of the skin and eyes, which indicates the onset of jaundice and shows that the infection has affected the liver. At this stage several diagnoses are possible including glandular fever and hepatitis. However, a blood test will reveal if Weil’s Disease is the culprit. Further symptoms include:
· Severe pain in joints and muscles throughout the body but more noticeable in the arms, elbows, wrists, legs, shoulders, hips, knees and ankles.
· Stiff and painful neck.
· Constipation.
· Very dry mouth and throat.
· Nausea.
· Headache.
· Unable to sleep due to pain and general discomfort.
· Elevated pulse rate and blood pressure.
· Loss of appetite.
· Urine a peculiar colour.
· Severe fever.
· Occasional violent shivering fits.
· Sudden yet prolonged spells of profuse sweating with consequent dehydration.
· Dry unproductive cough.
· Occasional shortness of breath.
The initial illness lasts about 5-10 days. In some cases it can then appear to get better but a further significant deterioration inevitably follows. If untreated Weil’s Disease is very serious and can, on occasions, be fatal.
If you become ill after a fishing trip and display any of the above flu-like symptoms, it is vital that you contact a doctor as soon as possible. You must tell the treating physician that you may have been in contact with infected water and that you suspect Weil’s Disease, as many of them do not associate the symptoms with the Disease without some guidance from you, the patient.
Treatment is invariably with strong antibiotics and it is usually successful but ONLY if it is started rapidly after the symptoms develop. Here are just a few ways the bacteria can enter the body:
1. Swallowing infected water.
2. Allowing infected water into contact with the eyes, nasal passages , the throat and the alimentary canal.
3. Via cuts and broken skin (grazes etc).
4. From contaminated food left uneaten either on the ground or even on a low chair or your bivvy table. Who knows what ratty has been up to while you were sleeping?
5. From a cigarette that may have fallen to the ground or by smoking a cigarette from packet left on the ground where a rat may have passed urine under or on the packet overnight or while you were away from your swim.
6. By lubricating your knots with saliva.
7. By biting rather than cutting nylon line.
8. By not being aware that wet boots and waders (especially neoprene chesties that retain water for much longer) will carry the infection until they are entirely dried out
9. By licking your fingers while fishing.
Take all necessary precautions. I know they are a bind but they could save your life.
· Get rid of rats using poison where possible. Use traps and plenty of them to help decrease the numbers around the fishery but be aware that even after they are dead their potential for harm lives on in the urine they have deposited.
· Encourage all private fishery owners to take extreme measures against them. They have a legal responsibility to provide a healthy environment for you to fish in.
· If you kill a rat one don't touch it with unprotected hands.
· Cover all cuts and broken skin with waterproof plasters while fishing. Always wash your hands before eating, drinking or smoking.
· Report ANY flu like illness to your doctor.
|
|
|
|
ye gods! take that picture off, its horrible!!
but, your message is sound.
basic hygiene on the bank is a great start.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #8
Well Said Ken
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #8
Should be visible now
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #6
I cant see it either
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #5
Ken, may it be worth mentioning what precautions you can take as not sure everyone will know including me!
I know it gets in through the blood stream so is it a case of keeping wounds etc covered up or more of a case of not going in the water full stop?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #4
I cant see it either.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #4
can't you see it? It's OK in Firefox! I'll try again in IE6
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #3
what photo ????
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #2
Mods,, this should be made a sticky thread,,
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Jeepers creepers- let that all be a lesson to you, cant understand why we dont have this rat problem out here at all. must be litter and too much food for them
|
|
Stickies