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In reply to Post #30
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In reply to Post #29
Must have been 22-23 years since I last bought CW, me and a mate met up at AI pits ( half way between Leeds and Northampton). Think the main article was an esssential baits piece
I got there about half an hour before he did and he clocked it on the front seat..
New carp world? Can I have a gander when you're done.
You can have it now if you can find anything amongdt the adverts
Would have been better off buying a couple of paperbacks from the other side of the stand inTesco
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In reply to Post #26
Wish I'd of kept my CWs. Sold 1-10 in a binder but the rest went to the tip, boxes of them 
The Mrs once again "if your not going to read them, bin them, we need the room"
Edit, to be fair, in the end it was nearly all adverts though.
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In reply to Post #25
I'll save that one, all of my technical stuff is pre-2013 
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In reply to Post #23
Just found this in the bedroom next to the mucky mags
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In reply to Post #22
I do remember that too. Backs up my tank testing.
Also, if feeding pellets with boilies then the carp are getting their betaine shot so no reason it can't still enhance digestion and absorption.
Similar to the way the nutritional recognition theory falls down as carp will be grazing from various parts of the lake buffet table so there isnt clear deficiency given that there is such variety on offer.
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In reply to Post #22
There were an excellent series of articles in Carpworld years ago by Mark McKenna and I remember him saying that carp don't have any receptors capable of detecting betaine, although it could have some benefit, digestion wise, in feedbaits.
'BAIT it's a four letter word'
I downloaded the series. back in 2009
it is the first Q&A paragraph, in Part 6 with the bold heading-
(if this statement is a bit too bold for some of you) perhaps one or two of you can provide some conclusive proof that betaine hydrochloride really does attract cyprinus carpio.
If you can I'll gladly eat my shorts,
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In reply to Post #9
There were an excellent series of articles in Carpworld years ago by Mark McKenna and I remember him saying that carp don't have any receptors capable of detecting betaine, although it could have some benefit, digestion wise, in feedbaits.
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In reply to Post #19
Has anyone gone that high with betaine?
I saw Pete B also mention using it at high levels in the latest BCSG book
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In reply to Post #19
Don't know if this is of any use to you but trawling through my notes I found these -
thank you
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In reply to Post #15
Don't know if this is of any use to you but trawling through my notes I found these -
Dave Moore
"I m a great believer in using Betaine HCL not because of its attraction qualities, but as an aid to the digestive process. The hydrochloric acid portion of this product helps breakdown proteins and aids trypsin digestion. It is also very water soluble so it can be used comfortably at moderate levels. In fish meal based baits I will use this product at this time of the year (winter) up to a level of 20g per 500g of dry mix. In any bait that has a high milk protein content I will reduce that by about 25%. This is mainly due to the bait texture; milk protein baits have a tendency to form a tighter structure and absorb water at a lower rate.
Ian Moore
Ian Moore (CCMoore) also recommends "We recommend using Betaine at 2%+ as used in the aquaculture industry whereas many companies suggest 0.2-0.5% inclusion which is really not worth using
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In reply to Post #15
It's worked for you before and there's only 3 variables that I can see, the BHCL, the water and heat, it's just a case of working through them.
The reason I suggested the water is sometimes water companies switch supplies and the mineral content can vary a lot. As a home brewer it could wreak havoc with styles & tastes, some people (and breweries) go as far as to use reverse osmosis filters to get a blank template water and then add minerals back in.
A switch to a more alkaline supply with lots of calcium ions again might not be ideal when working with acidic solutions. You can find the water info, supply & composition etc on your water suppliers website though it may be months old a may not reflect a switch of supply.
If you do go down the de ionised route you could normally find it in motor factors, Halfords etc, but it's been a long time since I bought any so maybe not.
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In reply to Post #15
The anhydrous version has a solubility which is 2x the solubility of betaine HCl. That said, there are 2 potential explanation why you can only dissolve 40g.
1) As mentioned before minerals and ions in the water can reduce solubility.
2) the betaine HCl may contain some flow agent what’ in most cases insoluble.
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In reply to Post #14
As always, lots of conflicting 'opinions' being expressed in this thread regarding a bait ingredient.
Edit... Best just not to get involved 
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In reply to Post #12
Just wondering if increased minerals/chemicals in your water might be hampering it.
possible, Anglian Water can have a twang to it and there have been water works.
I went to town yesterday with the intention of picking up some purified water, the chemist had litre bottles of alkaline water..not ideal for an acid solution. Or gallons.
There is a milky white semi-soluable in the bottom now, possibly the 2% impurity?
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Much more going on with this ingredient than meets the eye, methyl donor properties for one & when mixed with amino acids creates better feeding responses.
Only know as I was recently clearing out a load of my old notes and had quite a bit about this, so much you forget!
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In reply to Post #10
I don't think that you're harming your chances either. And for the extra few pence in a kilo of bait, you're not really harming your bank balance either. If you include it in your free offerings, you may as well include it in your hookbaits. Even if it's not attractive as such, there's certainly the possibility that it's detectable and so similar to your free offerings.
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In reply to Post #1
Just wondering if increased minerals/chemicals in your water might be hampering it.
Too early in the morning to look at chemistry right now but just a thought as supplies can vary seasonally.
Edit, maybe try de ionised water, more consistent results.
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In reply to Post #10
Fair enough, totally your choice.
Tank tests show that any fishmeal will get the bottom torn apart, so I'd happily sub one for another with no issue.
The thinking with betaine is that it helps utilise other ingredients, but has no actual attraction of its own.
Can't argue that the multinational pellet manufacturers use it so the research and proof must be there.
But as an additional ingredient in a boilie I can't justify it. If fish are eating my pellets and everyone else's then they are getting their betaine ration anyway.
The pellet manufacturers are basically catering for fish farms where the pellet feed is the only feed the fish get. Once in a lake then there is many bait options available, and they can still get some betaine from the available pellets so they are not missing out.
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In reply to Post #7
Variables are there for sure, every situation is different,
edit.
The same could be said for any additive, be that choosing between salmon oil or cod liver oil, LT($ or Irish fishmeal, GLM, liver, garlic, ethyl or nature idetical flavours, red, yellow, natural colour,
I don't think that I've harmed my chances by adding 5-10g of betaine to a base mix or soaking a hookbait.
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In reply to Post #7
I just use it at 2 % , so 2g in 100g for hookbaits. But yeah, so many variables. I use 1% citric acid with various soluble powders and actively fermenting CSL. The paste is then proved for around 12 hours before rolling. Is the betaine adding anything extra with all that going on ? Possibly not. I may just ditch it once I've run out of my current stock. . I think it' s a nostalgia thing to be honest.
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In reply to Post #4
Did you have good results with the concentrated anhydrous version solution as a dip previously ? Also was it just as a quick 5 minute soak or long term storage in the solution ?
yes, hook baits (corkballs) were sprinkled with anhydrous out of the pan and I've used dipped/soaked.
Tigers in betatalin
May be wrong in some opinions but there were times when it couldn't be over done.
Ian Parberry enlightened me on the stuff back in the 90s, explained the super solution, wasn't paying five quid for 250ml any more.
Also used HCL with some success in baits 
I'm day-ticketing, no long term feed bait plans, fishing for runs where a different bait on one rod might pick up a better fish or a load of fish. Or nothing
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In reply to Post #6
I have never used betaine. Tank tested some and seen ZERO reaction, so cannot see any worth in a glug or even in a bait.
Do you think 2g in 500g is really changing things...
So many variables, you could have the bait 110% right (with ot without betaine) but just have a bad day. You'd never know.
I'd sooner have an extra 2g of pdfm.
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In reply to Post #3
I usually use 2 g of the anhydrous version in 100 g of hookbait base mix. Works well for me.
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In reply to Post #3
Ah ok, you posted an answer before I'd even managed to post the questions Lol.
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In reply to Post #1
Did you have good results with the concentrated anhydrous version solution as a dip previously ? Also was it just as a quick 5 minute soak or long term storage in the solution ?
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It's going to be used as a base solution and won't all be going into a single dip,
I would use it to add small measurements to small egg white only pop-up mixes instead of measuring tenths of a gram.
Anyhoo, the 60% solution theory seems to have failed, I was hoping to add a minimal amount of water to the sticky components of the glug that 5g may or may not disolve into.
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In reply to Post #1
Use less, you don't need much in a bait for it to be effective. Less is more..
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I'm trying to make a solution of Betaine HCL for a dip but it's not disolving fully.
previously I'd made a super solution with anhydrous- you can throw it in boiling water until it's almost syrupy.
I know that the max soulability is 65g/100ml, for what it's worth I'm struggling at 40g/100ml and there is still some sediment forming in the bottom.
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