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In reply to Post #28
Just soak a bit of chopped garlic in an acidic hydro. And use as a bait soak. That's it really, no drama 😁
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In reply to Post #15
Bloody hell! I nearly screenshot that post, wish I had now with my useless memory lol
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In reply to Post #26
Fair enough. I do the same, just as and when I need it. I don't store it as such because of the risks mentioned previously. Anyways, it's all irrelevant now, as the original post and some of the subsequent replies have been deleted. Mods may as well delete the entire thread if desired. Sad really, as I love what Mark puts on here and honestly didn't mean to upset him. It's a shame that sometimes, a comment posted to genuinely just point out a potential issue can go tits up. But that's the internet for ya. I'll take a back seat for a bit and just watch for a bit methinks 😁
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In reply to Post #25
No, I make make my own. I add garlic to extra virgin olive oil to dress things with, and I add garlic to ground nut oil to use in cooking.
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In reply to Post #19
Do you make your own or is from the supermarket ? The garlic in oil that you buy from the supermarkets is perfectly safe. On the ingredients you'll probably see sulphites, salt, citric acid, ascorbic acid etc. All preservatives infused into the garlic to prevent spoilage after it goes into the jar of oil Similar process really to what the boffins from the university were recommending in the other post .
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In reply to Post #23
Ah, yes. My mistake. What I actually meant was single ( and uneaten hookbaits ) might not be an issue. Introducing kilos and kilos of botulism infused boilies ? Probably not so good. TBH though, I don't think it could ever be a major issue. The nearest thing that many of the new generation of anglers get to bait preparation is opening a bag of Cell 😂
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In reply to Post #22
“For fish bait, maybe that is the case”
That is the context here isn’t it. Fish bait… 
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In reply to Post #18
This is getting tedious now.
"There is little risk infusing garlic in oil "
For fish bait, maybe that is the case. You'd have to take that up with the authors of the article that Karlos posted.
" spores are on pretty much all the fruit and veg we eat "
Correct. But they are not in an environment in which they can proliferate. Once they are, then this is when problems could arise.
" If in doubt, acidification wouldn't be the way "
Not with oils obviously, as acids are not soluble in oils.
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Thank you for the clarification guys.
My info was grabbed from AI just to try and help out, but it’s good to have had more debate and clarification 👍
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In reply to Post #15
It wasn't a mistake Mark ( ok, maybe just that any liquid bit hehe ) . And please don't think for a second that I am in any way attempting to troll you, or in any way connected to anyone that has. I assure you that's not the case. You do your utmost to help everyone on here and long may it continue. I'd still be gunning out sausages by hand if it wasn't for you. Oh, and I love my Azatom radio, thanks for suggesting that as well 😁
Ok, botulism. Maybe I shouldn't have brought that up. The fact is though that it can happen. It's not going to happen using liquids such as hydros or preserved liquids which are the ones you had in mind. To summarise, botulism can occur in oil as it's a perfect, anaerobic, low acidity environment. With hydros, it can't, as it's a highly acidic and quite often salty environment. The water content here is irrelevant as it's the acidity that inhibits the bacteria responsible for botulism. I've got home fermented pickles at home that look like vegetables in water. But it's not water , its an acidic brine that preserves. I eat them all the time and I've never been ill. As for people getting their information from Google, it's just what people do nowadays.
Here's hoping everyone is happy now 😁
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In reply to Post #17
You can buy garlic in oil? And I've been keeping garlic cloves in oil for my own cooking for years. Not sure how that differs?
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In reply to Post #17
There is little risk in infusing garlic into oil. No more then doing any oil infusions with herbs and spices. This has been done for thousands of years
The fact that spores are pretty much on all fruit and veg we eat, yet there are very little outbreaks shows how remote the chances are.
If in doubt acidification wouldn't be the way... heat treatment is a much more robust control, Heat the infused oil to around 140oC and it will be free of everything by the time its cooled.
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In reply to Post #16
Would you care to elaborate on how it is nonsense and how you understood the context of the comment ? It was a polite heads-up highlighting the potential danger of storing garlic in oil. Now Mark hadn't actually advised anyone do such a thing, but the " any liquid " bit could easily have been perceived to be just that. He acknowledged this and thanked me for pointing it out. Have. a good day sir.
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In reply to Post #15
The botulism comment is nonsense in the context that it was originally made in on this thread.
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This thread was a mistake from the very start. Very silly of me considering what is currently going down in troll-town on & off this forum. I’ve been doing this for a very long time. Decades. I’ve never had botulism 😂
People guessing what will happen by reading stuff on Google regarding making garlic oil for human consumption etc, is not the same as people actually knowing what the effects are being spoken about in this thread. Add liquid betaine, numerous sweeteners or any other manner of completely water based products to your mix of heavily preserved liquids in your glugs. There is far more water than is in a couple of garlic bulbs. Substantially more. You will not create botulism. You don’t get sick. The carp don’t get sick. CSL is 50% water. The same people are telling you at the exact same time to add CSL to your glugs. In any decent amount it will contain FAR more water than your couple of garlic bulbs. Should people not add liquid betaine, sweeteners, CSL or anything else similar, because they are completely water based? Anglers have been adding them to glugs for decades. Very successfully so. Does this cause botulism? Of course not. Looking at stuff online regarding products CONSUMED by humans is not the same thing whatsoever. Yes you need to follow different practices for human consumption. H&S is crazy these days for anything consumed by us. You are not drinking them. Drink some of your bait glug that you have at home… You will very likely be sick. Does it make you sick in angling terms? Of course not. It’s all good. Lessons have been learned again ❤️
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After being alerted to this thread I've done some research.
I don't want CarpForum sharing any information that could be dangerous (intentional, or in this case non-intentional)
So here's 3 methods that could be used to create a garlic infusion that's safe for angler and fish. Main credit to University of Idaho
Method 1: Acidification (Best for Long-Term Storage)
This is the only method that allows you to store your infusion at room temperature. It involves soaking the vegetables in a specific citric acid solution to lower their pH below 4.6.
Solution: Mix 1 level tablespoon of granular citric acid into 2 cups (approx. 500ml) of water.
Preparation: Peel and coarsely chop your garlic/onions into pieces no larger than 1/4 inch (6mm). This is crucial—the acid cannot penetrate whole cloves deeply enough.
Soak: Submerge 2/3 cup of the chopped garlic/onions in the 2 cups of solution. Use a weight (like a small plate or a bag filled with the same solution) to keep them fully submerged.
Timing: Leave them at room temperature for exactly 24 hours.
Infusion : After 24 hours, drain the liquid and pat the garlic dry. You can now add these "safe" pieces to your oil or liquid attractant.
Note: Do not substitute vinegar or lemon juice for citric acid; they are not strong enough or standardized enough for this specific 24-hour soaking method.
Method 2: The "Dry" Method (Safest & Easiest)
Since botulism requires moisture to grow, removing the water from the garlic/onions makes the infusion safe.
Dehydrate: Slice garlic or onions thinly and dry them in a dehydrator or a very low oven until they are brittle and "snap" when bent.
Infuse: Add the fully dried pieces to your oil or liquid.
Result: Without water, the bacteria cannot germinate. This creates a shelf-stable product that can last for several months in a cool, dark place.
Method 3: "Flash & Freeze"
If you don't want to use acid or dry the garlic, you must use temperature control.
Preparation: Mix your fresh garlic and oil/liquid.
Storage: Keep it in the refrigerator and use it within 4 days.
Long-term: If you won't use it in 4 days, pour the mixture into ice cube trays and freeze it.
Usage: Take a "garlic cube" out and add it to your bait just before you head to the lake. The toxin cannot form while the mixture is frozen.
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In reply to Post #12
Also, if the fermentation thing seems a bit of a wait, I'm fairly certain that you could skip the process and instantly produce a preservative brine. I'd dissolve lactic acid into a 2.5 % salt solution getting the PH down to at least 4. Slice up a your garlic, pop it in the jar, use a disc weight to keep it submerged and put the lid on. You'd obviously not get any of flavour changes through fermentation, but I'm fairly certain that it wouldn't go off. Any food technologists on here, feel free to reply. You'd probably still have to give it time to steep for the flavour to seep out, but maybe not as as long as the lengthy fermentation process.
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Thanks for the replies guys, I'll order a litre of glug next time I'm ordering bait and I think I should be able to get corn syrup from the Chinese supermarket and give it a whirl nothing ventured nothing gained.
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In reply to Post #8
You can indeed produce a purely garlic and onion liquid. Many naturally fermented foods start off as nothing more than raw vegetables submerged in brine. This can be just garlic , or with cabbage ( sauerkraut ), or with cabbage , ginger, garlic and spices ( Kimchi )Then Mother Nature gets to work with lactobacillus bacteria producing lactic acid. The key is, sterilisation of equipment and a safe initial salt content ( usually around 2.5 % ). This will inhibit any nasty pathogens from sabotaging your efforts. I've done it in fermenters with air locks, but you can also just use a Kilner jar with a glass weight to keep everything submerged. The jar will need burping every couple of days when active , to release the carbon dioxide.. The whole process can take up to 5 or 6 weeks but once finished it keeps well. I have an 8 month old jar of garlic that's just fine. I like to use the brine whilst it is still quite active with added sugar as a hook bait soak. Leave them soaking for a day or two. You will see the bubbles as the bacteria gets to work.
Edit : It's wise to check the finished brine for acidity with a PH meter for any long term storage. I usually end up at around PH 4 or just under. Only occasionally have I had to manually bring it down with additional lactic acid. This is widely available from homebrew suppliers
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In reply to Post #8
Fish sauce (squid brand, etc) could be a good option. High in salt so it will help preserve.
You can add some golden syrup (easily available corn syrup substitute) to enhance taste and an additional preservative.
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In reply to Post #1
Hi Mark, I don't make my own bait but would this onion and garlic magic still be feasible to wash into freezer baits in the same way as I've done in the past with the watered down honey trick ? If so can you suggest a suitable neutral-ish liquid to use?
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In reply to Post #5
Thanks for clearing that up Mark 👍 I didn't think that you were actually suggesting to use oils but I didn't want the " any liquid " comment to set anyone off on the path to breeding botulism in their kitchen cupboards 😭
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In reply to Post #4
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In reply to Post #1
You say absolutely any liquid at all, but what about oils ? Would this not be a potential recipe for botulism ? A single , uneaten hookbait, probably no problem. But kilos of botulism infused freebies could well be. Any other acidic or salty liquids such as hydros, fish sauce etc will should be fine as it's already an inhospitable environment for the botulism to survive. You've said before that you make your own garlic oil , so that's a secret for you to divulge at a later date 😁 My way of doing it is to first ferment garlic cloves in brine and then blend this into my chosen oil (or liquid food ) when needed. Like you say, you don't need loads.Even just one of the smallest of cloves is ample for around a litre of liquid. Anyway, keep up the good work. and the tips coming. Ali is probably googling fermentation vessels now 😂
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In reply to Post #1
Thank you for the Michelin star bait guide Mark
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