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immediate drop-offs / stopping runs
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Dark_Wraysbury8

Posts: 8

#12 18 Sept 2025 at 10.00am

In reply to Post #11
Good point, mate.

You're right about the hook points. I have been struggling a lot with blunt points. Almost every hook point, although brutally sharp in the first place, was rusted away, often after only a few hours. I then started to use Gardner's Point Shield (I tried so many things) and it improved.

I think it also was the combination of the short hooklink, the new material, the long hair and the heavy leads. As I said: I used a very similar rig prior and never had so many fish banked in a row, the problem occurred in that very moment I changed from N-Trap soft to semi-stiff, and from heavy baits to critically balanced.

As I said: I baited up the swim once more and did another night in there and had 5 takes in a row not losing one.

As you said, mate: I was lengthening the hooklength and shortened the hair, as well as reducing the weight of the lead, and it worked a treat.

And I interestingly noticed another thing: I had a hard time with carp shaking the hook. The fish there are very, very wary and "riggy" and there were times when they shook off everything I was trying. I was using everything in the word rig-wise what u can imagine, I really think there wasn't anything left to try and at times I felt absolutely desperate. The water has a reputation of being one of the hardest waters in the county with very big fish up to 70 to 80 pounds.

There were times when the only thing you were experiencing was a succession of 3 to 4 bleeps with the bobbin dropping some 2 - 3 inches.

With the new set-up I converted every take into a full-blooded run, no trying to hit twitches anymore. Triggalink worked initially, but soon blew.

I always tried to think out of the box and do something completely unorthodox against the current and not following the vogue.

I proved myself that things work, which in theory are doomed to fail. Size 8 hooks with 30mmers, very long hooklinks over hard-bottomed particle spots, for instance.

I am still struggling with the points. I don't know if anyone has some idea / advice to improve the situation.

JayRussell

Posts: 32

#11 18 Sept 2025 at 6.38am

In reply to Post #1
I’d start by adding an inch to my hook link , what are your hooks points coming back like? You maybe fishing an area that might have a particularly acidic bottom that’s blunting them, or nuisance fish playing with your bait and blunting them, you sound like you know what your doing though so it must be something little making the difference. Could even be you had some competitive feeding and they were just snatching

Dark_Wraysbury8

Posts: 8

#10 17 Sept 2025 at 5.41pm

In reply to Post #9
Of course they had the hook in their mouths to register a take, but not deep enough to grab a good enough hold. That's my point. I think the longish hair was the culprit, too.

I am always open for other opinions / views and was thinking about your arguments aswell.

whataclonker

Posts: 303

#9 17 Sept 2025 at 2.35pm

In reply to Post #8
You could argue your case with virtually any conventional rig, however, the fact remains that they have been the downfall of countless carp & no doubt will continue to do so for years to come.

As I said previously, if for arguments sake what your describing does indeed happen, then IMO it wouldn't have happened 3 times in one morning.

& Again for arguments sake, if they were bites from carp, then the hook was obviously in its mouth to register the takes.

I can see that your already down the rabbit hole & I doubt anything I say will be able to convince you otherwise.

Good Luck with it.

Dark_Wraysbury8

Posts: 8

#8 17 Sept 2025 at 12.49pm

In reply to Post #5
I get your point, mate. But if the fish was sucking from a distance it would not be able to take in the hookbait. And it maybe would be spooked because the hookbait would react kind of unnatural.

I tried the hooklink in the margins in shallow water and noticed that it stretched out completely every time I dropped in the whole lot.

As I said prior to the occurrence I was using N-Trap soft with putty on the hooklink which resulted in a hooklink looping up on the bottom with plenty of slack to take it in (in conjunction with a heavy bait such as a boilie).

Carp approaching the bait while sucking could be the case, yes.

But I don't think this would be the case on pressured waters?

Dark_Wraysbury8

Posts: 8

#7 17 Sept 2025 at 12.12pm

Thanks for your answers!

I baited up the swim again and did a new night in there, this time using a multi rig with a fairly long hooklink of about 12 inches, with two sinkers on it to keep everything down, and a light lead of 3,5 oz. Hookbaitwise I used a balanced tiger.

Five runs i a row, not losing one.

Might be coincidence, but got me thinking

RKB

Posts: 1475

#6 16 Sept 2025 at 12.59pm

In reply to Post #5
Yep, and that first thing I'd be changing is the length of the hair.

whataclonker

Posts: 303

#5 16 Sept 2025 at 12.53pm

In reply to Post #4
As you said that it's a very difficult lake & the fact you had 3 runs drop off in one morning, it indicates to me that it was probably a nuisance fish or something similar to what's already been posted.

Regarding the rig, you could be overthinking it a little - it's easily done & I've fallen into that trap many times!

IMO - even if the semi stiff hook link did fall completely outstretched (which I think would be unlikely), I'm not sure that it works quite how your imagining. The carp would be approaching over & moving down towards the bait while sucking, the hook link would still be able to pivot upwards & allow enough movement to facilitate hooking. IF for arguments sake it does happen how you say, it would be a random & uncommon occurrence, ie, not happening 3 times in a row or a short space of time.

My advice would be to carry on doing what you were previously & continue to use a rig you have confidence in. & If it does happen again repeatedly, then by all means start looking at your set up & change things methodically 1 at a time.

Otherwise you can fall down the rabbit hole of oblivion, chopping & changing, doing your own head in, & going backwards fast!

Dark_Wraysbury8

Posts: 8

#4 12 Sept 2025 at 6.47pm

Hi lads,

thank you for your answers.

Aye, there are plenty of really big pike in there.

And I thought of fish trailing rigs, too.

But I always back-leaded the line to the bottom with captive back leads.

The two lost fish were exactly in the normal feeding spell. That made me wondering.

I thought about it the last few days and have an assumption what might had happened.

The rig I was using was the best rig in over 35 years now and I never banked so many fish in a row. And from one moment to the next I lost three fish one after the other.

The only difference was the hooklink material. Initially I was using Korda N-Trap soft in conjunction with heavy boilies, sometimes with putty on the hooklength. So the the bait landed next to or near the lead every time. I never lost a carp. I always fished a long hair and a relatively short hooklink. It worked pretty well for me.

But then I changed to N-Trap semi-stiff and balanced baits, meaning the bait was always pushed the furthest away from the lead. And now a huge problem occurs, I don't know if you ever noticed that. When a carp approaches the bait from the very end of the bait with a fully stretched hooklink, it isn't able to suck the whole thing in deep enough. A short hooklink and a long hair worsens the situation even more. The same thing happening if the fish comes from an angle from the front. The bait can only be sucked in deep when the fish comes from the direction of the lead, straight or in an angle - won't matter.

Pushed away hookbaits are considered a good thing hence the use of stiff links, but in reality it ruins your chances.

I think the three lost fish came from the bait end and the hook just entered the very edge of the lip and dropped off as soon the line got enough tension either due to a tight clutch or in the beginning of a battle.

Now I have the idea of trying a longer hooklink of for instance 30 cm with five cm turned / folded back and fixed with pva string. As soon as the string dissolves you got some spare hooklink lying on the bottom. Now, even when the fish comes from the riskiest direction / part, it will have ten (double of the folded 5) cm of slack to take the bait in correctly for the hook to grab hold deep enough.

What are your thoughts, have you ever had similar experiences?

Could it work?

vossy1

Posts: 7252

MODERATOR

#3 12 Sept 2025 at 9.35am

Any Pike in there? I've had my pod pulled over with striking/line spooked Pike at a water I fished. Other times absolute screamers, and I mean screamers.

mrgriff

Posts: 3751

#2 11 Sept 2025 at 10.56pm

In reply to Post #1
A fish trailing a rig maybe?

Dark_Wraysbury8

Posts: 8

#1 8 Sept 2025 at 5.53pm

Hello lads,

this morning I had three takes on a very difficult water.

One was a full screamer stopping just before I was able to grab the rod. Another one was a fast run as well with the fish dropping off after only a few seconds.

I've been using the very same rig over a year now and never had any problems.

I was fishing heavy leads of 6 oz this time and a hooklink of around 16 cm. Normally I was using 5 ounces. The hook was a size 4.

I am now wondering if the short hooklink was responsible.

Has anyone else experienced something like that before and has some advice?


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