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https://www.ibottles.co.uk/wide-neck-natural-hdpe-jar.html?ps=MTY4PTU1NTYmMTQ0PTU0ODA=&gclid=CjwKCAjwiOCgBhAgEiwAjv5whC-J1r58vgqzu6a0Cmdy8DTAYDxzm0YCspbUtDOPc4qJEMWxbUK_5hoCQKwQAvD_BwE#168=5556&144=5480
Would these work for fermented maize ? Need some wide neck bottles. Too much hassle with coke bottles.
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In reply to Post #198
>>>>Does anyone have a view on how to create a bacterial ferment, the particles smell more cheesy than a yeast ferment where it is has more of an alcohol smell - please?<<<<
You don't ferment it, just boil it till its soft and stick it in a bucket of water, avoid fermentation by leaving the lid off so bacteria gets in and leave it to start rotting in the shade preferably. You will know when its done as it will blow your head off and neighbours will be asking if you have a dead cat in the garden. If I recall this is how they use it in the US but unboiled.
The smell is like N,Buytric acid so if you know what that smells like, you will know when its done. It can go a bit too far though and start smelling like sileage which is enough to make you vomit, when it has reached that stage, it is proper rotten and reeks to heaven high.
I used to fish it like this 70's and into the 80's. The only problem with it is if you handle it with your hands to throw in to bait up etc, you can never wash the stink out of them. These days it might not be so bad with scoops etc.
If you was to ferment it and let it go off, it would just go vinegary
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Does anyone have a view on how to create a bacterial ferment, the particles smell more cheesy than a yeast ferment where it is has more of an alcohol smell - please?
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In reply to Post #196
Great post, thanks for explaining 
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In reply to Post #195
Not quite, when any yeast starts fermenting sugars and producing alcohol this does make a more hostile environment for bacteria to reproduce so while not sterile does act as a preservative, just think about some historic beer styles that are brewed to a higher ABV so they kept for longer (others used more hops which acted as a natural preservative, e.g IPA’s). All yeast can only keep fermenting up to a certain ABV (remember alcohol is it’s waste product), and this is dependant on the particular strain of yeast. For example those used for making those kit ‘spirit’ type drinks can tolerate up to 20%+, others, wild or otherwise, only maybe 6 or 7%. Of course if there insufficient sugar to reach this limit, the yeast runs out of food and fermentation of course stops, the result being something with no sweetness, as there’s no sugar left.
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This is perhaps more of a question than an answer but iirc if you have a lot of available sugar for the wild yeasts to feed on, the resulting alcohol content would rise enough to create a sterile environment which would halt any further fermentation? I know loads of you use the hefty sugar route but imo the best results are gained after using wet but not submerged broken cooked maize, add a small amount sugar to kick start a ferment and use between 48-60hrs..Has always been my most successful
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There seems to be a little bit of unwarranted mystery around fermenting particles, assuming we’re talking about yeast here and not bacteria.
If you dissolve some sugar in water and leave it open to the air for a while (then cover it or don’t), and keep it at a constant room temp, preferably in the dark, the sugar will be fermented by yeast. There’s yeast floating around in the air everywhere, some will end up in the water, chow down on the sugar, convert it to alcohol and carbon dioxide, and multiply …this is how booze and bread have been made for a few thousand years.
So all you need is sugar and yeast (monosaccharides being the easiest for yeast to eat).
When you boil your particles you’ll kill any yeast already present, so leave it open to the air for a while, cover and wait. Or for guaranteed quick results, just add some bakers yeast and it’ll be fermenting in minutes, it really is that simple.
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In reply to Post #191
Mine was all Mixed/dissolved there wasn't any residue settled it all seems to have soaked up nicely..
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In reply to Post #191
I have just started a new batch as well.. The vinegar smell didn't seem to put the fish off at all and the bait/water wasn't sweet, but I still don't know if that is part of the process..
We need our resident expert to come back and give us advice @TCarper
🙂
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In reply to Post #190
I'm glad it's not just me this didn't work for.
I tried it, left it for 6 days sitting directly on a window ledge indoors where the sun beamed on it continuously, the bucket on the outside was warm/hot to the touch during the times of sunlight, of which I then transferred it to an airing cupboard.
Upon opening the bucket all that had happened was the heavy corn syrup/fructose combo had sunk to the bottom pushing the water to the top. I didn't have any sour smell though, which was handy, as I didn't open the bucket up until I got to the lake, so would have been gutted had this 'ruined'.
It's funny that this thread has popped up today, as I'm going to try a second batch tonight, but this time I'm draining the water and going straight in with the CS/F combo liquid, in hope this will work and speed up the process.
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In reply to Post #189
It was really warm most of the time and the last
3 days it was roasting in my car
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In reply to Post #188
Where was it kept it needs warmth
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I made up some maize (the same as the recipe( and left it for 8 days
it was still still just sitting in the water but I wouldn't say it was fermented..
It smelt vinigery and didn't taste very sweet at all, although I mixed it with hemp and corn once I got to the lake and it didn't put the fish off..
What I wondered is, should it still be sweet and should I have left it for longer, or is the vinigar smell a sign it was going off or is that a part of the process?
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Do you distill the liquid and drink it? Or just drink it 😂😂
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In reply to Post #185
I don't know but would that stop the fermentation of the maze
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In reply to Post #184
Has anyone tried adding Molasses to the maize along with the fuctose syrup? Thinking it’s super high sugar content would work well and help with the fermentation?
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In reply to Post #182
Keep the sides of the bucket mega clean to avoid the whole lot turning 👍🏼
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In reply to Post #182
blow the lid off in this heat 
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In reply to Post #181
Quick question, does anyone know if the bucket/containers need to be sterilized before fermenting? or is just being clean enough?
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In reply to Post #180
Micronized maize is particularly fermentable so should be fine 
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In reply to Post #179
Ok cheers, I blended some cooked maize up tonight and it looks decent.
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In reply to Post #178
I tried that last week. It worked, but no more or less than any other method mix I used
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In reply to Post #177
Has anyone put it in a blender afterwards, looking to add some to a method mix for a venue with smaller carp, or should I just blend the unprepared maize? Cheers.
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In reply to Post #176
Obviously the warmer the environment the faster they will turn.
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In reply to Post #175
Thank you 🙏
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In reply to Post #174
Yes at least 1 week is fine.
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In reply to Post #173
With maize in the bucket can you leave it for longer than a few days ?
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In reply to Post #151
I had a bottle explode on me last night  , I used a 7up bottle, it looked bloated and the bottom had popped out. I got 5 more bottles sitting here. I am wondering if it would be ok to open the lid slightly and let some of the gas out or would that ruin it?
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In reply to Post #71
Hi using the longer method is it possible to ferment a mix of either Maize and tigers or maize, tigers and hemp.
Thanks for the great advice will be giving it a good go this season.
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Think I’ll give this a go too Zach. I forgot all about the original thread. I’ve had mixed results in a standard bucket like with tigers, they seem to turn a lot easier than the maize.
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In reply to Post #168
Cheers for this thread Zach. Gonna follow your steps!
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In reply to Post #168
Thanks,I'll let my Nan know.
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In reply to Post #167
>>>What does the hooch taste like?<<<
Just tastes like maize. Its cloudy milky white, but its one way of testing how well fermented it is when you feel it go to your head.
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In reply to Post #144
What does the hooch taste like?
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In reply to Post #144
Hi Zack,
Just want to say thanks for sharing your knowledge, saving my bottles now and going to have a bash at this.
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In reply to Post #164
About half a kilo I think is probably all you get in a bottle anyway as you only 3/4 fill them and then squeeze the bottle to get all air out and screw the top on. The bottles look odd initially being flattish, but they soon pop out again when fermentation kicks in.
But, it is a lot of messing for just regular evening sessions, probably just better to boil the maize and let it ferment in a bucket a few days beforehand. My idea is mainly for use as a back up bait to take and bring home if unused for another day or for long sessions where your ready prepared stuff has been used up or gone off.
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In reply to Post #162
Thanks, so I’d be better off just putting say half a kilo-kilo of maize in each bottle to ferment as that will probably be enough for me for my few hours I do after work
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A simple way to reuse a lot of plastic bottles on one project is something that I came across sometime in the the past few years.
An air conditioning unit. Basically, you get a load of plastic bottles, cut the bottoms off, unscrew the tops, make a big bank of them and fit a piece of hosepipe etc over the bottle spout, these if I recall are fed into a larger pipe which then goes into your house.
The idea is, you face the bottle ends into the wind, the air blows into the bottles, gets slightly compressed and forced down the piping and as we know, compressed air is cool, and then it goes down the main pipe and cools the house down
It would be the ideal thing on roof of a bivvy in Summer if there was a bit of wind on a scorching hot day.
So far. I have not took the plunge. Plenty off instructions online how to do it, just search for plastic bottle air conditioning. Its supposed to be a common practise in 3rd World Countries.
When Nash find out, they will be soon releasing an air conditioning unit for bivvies.
Here is one method of doing it:-
https://observers.france24.com/en/20160602-bangladesh-air-conditioner-plastic-bottles-technology
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In reply to Post #158
>>>>How long will the maize in the bottle last once opened and started being used?<<<
Its difficult to say, because of the narrow neck, you have only one way of getting it out, shake a few pieces out at a time, but, invariably, you will also pour out all the liquid, and if you plan on pouring it back in the bottle, it could be contaminated with bacteria which will start the decaying process. Also air will get in the bottle, and that too could be carrying airborne bacteria. But, it would easily last a weekend or longer, maybe a week, but, I haver tried looking.
As a rule, I cut the bottle open and empty the contents into a bait bucket and use it all up.
I did try fermenting in small 500ml bottles for small amounts of bait for a session, but, it never worked and never bothered repeating the exercise again to try and find out why it did not work.
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In reply to Post #160
Not at all, I think it’s a good idea. I was just trying to work out if there was a way to easily re use the bottles. Please stop trying to twist it into something it’s not.
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In reply to Post #159
Either way the plastic will be recycled, you seem to be shooting a lot of members down recently for no reason.
All Zack done as explain the way he fermented maize with the materials that worked for him, you’ve already got 2 uses out of a old bottle.
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In reply to Post #156
I just want to reduce my plastic waste mate, a bigger necked bottle could be decanted and re used multiple times. I wasn’t slagging the guy off for doing it just trying to find a solution to reduce my own plastic use. I assume that’s alright?
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In reply to Post #157
How long will the maize in the bottle last once opened and started being used?
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I recall this morning that the funnel I eventually ended up using is the top from another PET bottle of the same size. Also when bottling the maize, a bit at a time, usually I use a desert spoon full at a time and poke it through with the handle. Too much and you just clog the funnel up.
Plastic bottles cut in half can be used as propagators to go on top of plants and cutting to grow etc
As for how much pressure the bottle will have to bear, try standing on, jumping on or stamping on a fizzy drinks PET bottle full of water and no air inside which would only compress and try forcing the bottom out of the bottle to become dome shaped. You cannot. How often have you seen a PET bottle with a domes out bottom, probably never, that is because it is rare for a bottle to be pressurised so much. Now try that with a milk carton etc.
I weigh 220lbs and what that works out as lbs/sq inch I dont know, and that is not enough to "Pop" a bottle base out , but off the internet:-
The surface area of a 2 litre coke bottle is 684.274cm2, so now you can work it out.
There may be other containers you can use, but they would have to be clear plastic, otherwise, you would never know what the condition of the maize is, ie, has it fermented, gone rotten etc without opening the top and potentially letting in harmful bacteria. Plus, with a harder plastic, how do you squeeze the air out apart from filling it up to the top with water, but that then leaves no room for the container to expand and potentially become even more pressurised.
A couple of other things about fermentation if your not into winemaking, yeast is killed off when fermentation reaches a level of 10% to 15% alcohol, so when you bang your sugar or fructose syrup in with the particles, is it a controlled amount or just a case of tip it in, because if not, you could end up with a "dry" bait similar to a dry wine, all the sugar has fermented, or it could be a "sweet" bait, like a sweet wine, the sugars have fermented, but the level of alcohol has reached the point were yeast is killed off still leaving sugar in with the particles.
To get a higher level of fermentation, you have to use a "Super Yeast" but that will only raise the alcohol level to around 17% I think as I have ever only used them once years ago.
So basically, that "top" bait you have created, may be an unsweetened or a sweetened bait which could be why sometimes, your bait does not work because it was made wrong, too much sugar or not enough.
As I never add sugars, I have to presume that I am using a "Dry Bait".
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In reply to Post #146
Honestly what’s the problem with cutting the lid off a 2L bottle?
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In reply to Post #153
Why are you asking me what container thst would be? I’ve described a type of container not one I’ve identified. Calm down. 😂
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In reply to Post #153
Can remember reading Zack's method a very long time ago and using it, often thought about a wide neck bottle as well but never found anything. Did wonder If there is a wide one on the marhet that had an air admittance valve in the lid to allow the fermentation process to drive the air out so the bottle didn't expand but again didn't find anything suitable.
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In reply to Post #152
What large screw top bottle would that be then? He's already explained why you need to use a bottle that'll withstand the pressure.
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In reply to Post #151
Hence why I asked lol.
Still think a large screw top would be better.
HDPE will deal with compression just as well as PET to be fair
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In reply to Post #148
>>>>remember those 3L bottles of cheap squash? JUBLEE with the massive tops? be deal them.<<<<
>>>>Plastic milk bottles<<<<
If your planning on using my method and planning on using squash bottles or even plastic milk bottles or even spring water bottles, forget it, you need proper PET plastic bottles that are designed to hold the likes of carbonated drinks that can become highly pressurised. Unless of course you want the container to explode which would go down a treat in the back of a car when you hit some bumps or in a kitchen cupboard.
Believe me, when the maize starts fermenting, the bottle will become very pressurised. Have you ever dropped a bottle of Coca Cola from a height and picked it up and noticed how firm the bottle has become, that is how hard the bottle becomes when maize is fermenting.
I actually think that the serrated bottom of plastic bottles is actually part of the design as a "pressure release valve" in case its contents should start fermenting by accident or the bottle is dropped and this "valve" pops out. As a rule "fizzy" drinks usually have potassium sorbate in to kill off fermentation and bacteria like you use for making homebrew.
Yes Ken, tigers ferment well also prepared this way. The hardest part with tigers though is, they don't like being boiled and scratch and bite like hell when your trying to force them into the bottle. I'm always glad to finally get the tail in and screw the top on.
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In reply to Post #147
Also I promise you I have tapes thst will hold it it was more of the materials would
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In reply to Post #147
you just need to chose who to send it to. Steve carrie of DNA baits / malting organic will turn your fishing line and face masks into benches and boards etc. Brilliant innovation.
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In reply to Post #146
remember those 3L bottles of cheap squash? JUBLEE with the massive tops? be deal them.
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In reply to Post #146
Tape isn't going to hold if the fermentation is enough to make the bottle swell up massively..
Most plastic bottles don't get recycled anyway, we just send them abroad to be burned/buried..
Recycling is good in some countries but not in the UK.
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In reply to Post #144
My only gripe wit htast method is cutting open the plastic bottle, I understand its been recycled once already but its a shame there doesnt seem to be a wider neck bottle to facilitate emptying. ever tried it with a milk bottle and taping the lid shut?
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In reply to Post #144
Some of the best advice to be found on here. Thanks, Zack.
(BTW, it also works with tigers, as you no doubt know.)
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Its many years ago since I posted my method of fermenting maize and repeated it on the odd occasion, I would not be surprised if it was about 20 years ago, maybe longer and over the years it has caught me many fish. Its also a handy way of fermenting maize when you do not know when your going to use it, but you can always have a bottle of it with you for that occasion as it does not go off.
It is a "Fidgety" way of doing it, but it is not designed for doing it for a session in a few days time etc, but more for having a stock of fermented maize ready to go, for the unexpected session, or as a backup bait, that you may or may not use etc
1. Prepare your maize as normal with the soaking and boiling times etc
2. Using a funnel with its spout cut to match the size of a 2 litre or even a 3 litre or smaller plastic PET bottle, ie Coca Cola, Pepsi etc, fill the bottle about three quarters full with maize. Do not completely fill with maize, the bottle needs room inside for the bottle to expand. 2 litre bottles I find best.
3. Top up each bottle with the water from the boiling and share it out between all the bottles if not enough to cover the maize in all the bottles. If there is not enough, just top up with tap water.
4. Squeeze out the air in the plastic bottle till the juice is up to the top off the bottle and screw on the top tight.
5. Place the plastic bottle filled with maize in a warm place and just leave.
6. In a few days time, the bottle will have expanded as fermentation takes place. Do not be surprised to see eventually that the bottom of the bottle has popped out and is now dome shaped and the plastic bottle seems to be about to explode. But don't worry, I have never had one explode yet.
7. Once fermented, it is now ready to use and can be left years before you do use it.
8. To use it, just slice the top off the bottle to make it easier than trying to shake it out of the top. Also, as I usually do, I pour the juice out into a cup etc and have a good drink rather than waste it. Its probably a lot stronger than cheapo cider.
9. Avoid temptation to open bottles to "sniff" etc, you can let harmful bacteria in, and if you do, the maize will rot. If the bottle appears to have air in it and it is very hard to the touch and if the bottle bottom has popped out, presume it is good to go and it has fermented.
Sometimes though, you will get the odd bottle that does not ferment, I think its probably caused by bacteria in the bottle that has killed the yeast off same as what happens with home brewing. All I do with plastic bottles is just swill them out with tap water after they are empty. Maybe it would be better to sterilise them with the likes of Camden tablets etc first, but, I find it rare that one does fail to ferment.
Do not try and fill the bottles with dry maize which is the easy way than poking prepared maize through a small hole with a tea spoon handle etc, fill with water and then leave to soak for the required amount of time and then place the bottles stood upright to boil up in a pan of hot water If you do, you will end up with a plastic bottle full of maize shrink wrapped when the water in the pan boils and the bottle distorts, curls up and shrinks.
An additional thing you can do is add flavour. dye, additives etc when you bottle it etc. The juice is probably not drinkable then. But, be careful what you add, it too could kill off fermentation.
I have found this method only works with maize, the likes of hemp, chick peas, tares, maples etc, just rots and never ferments.
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In reply to Post #142
Good work...
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| | | Cam | | Posts: 6511 |  | | MODERATOR | |
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This has been brought up a few times recently so I have had a tidy up of the thread and tried to keep the relevant posts in.
It may move around a bit but it's the best I can do.
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In reply to Post #110
+1 delete the irrelevant post and lock thread. please don't delete it.
Some really interesting reading about actual bait.
Would also be open to suggestion on how you can speed up the process (eg -get my 20kg of maize in France on the Saturday and get it to a optimum state ASAP for fishing at some point in the week)
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In reply to Post #97
Forever mate. They have a sell by date on only as it’s human consumption stuff. They are two sugars, it will last indefinitely in that bottle. I’ve not had a bottle longer than 2 years. In that time it did not change at all though.
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In reply to Post #52
How long will this keep for, I'm guessing we won't use it all in one go?
@TCarper.?
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In reply to Post #87
Interesting.
Is the salt used to break down the cell walls of the yeast?
It would also be interesting to hear about the further reactions, if possible.
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In reply to Post #83
That's what I was thinking mate, bloody cheap too. I'll get a bottle I think to have a play about with
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In reply to Post #82
Can’t see why not mate. It’s still liquid glucose & fructose. Let me know how it goes with that please.
The price of the corn syrup has gone up massively on Amazon since I posted that link. You can get same stuff on eBay for far less.
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In reply to Post #77
I've just seen something called invert sugar syrup on Amazon mark, would that do a similar job as the corn syrup?
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Bloody good read guys. Thanks to all of those that shared their knowledge
I've never fermented corn, always done this with groundbait. I've always liked using it before it starts to smell of vinegar. Fish go made for it at this stage 😁
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In reply to Post #78
Ok thanks was thinking about doing a large batch and bagging/freezing for spur of the moment trips 👍🏻
Michael
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In reply to Post #77
OK thanks 👍
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In reply to Post #73
You can freeze it, but IMO it's never as effective if you do.
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In reply to Post #75
If you go back and read what I wrote mate, I gave two ways of doing it.
The normal longer winded way, in water... I also spoke about when not having enough time and wanting some done quickly, doing it dry on a radiator after boiling for a couple of days. Obviously the quick way is never going to be as good, and I never advocated it was either mate. The dry way was added on at the end of the post when time is not available.
You can ferment it that way by reducing the moisture and applying lots of heat.... Thus speeding it up.
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In reply to Post #74
Because the glucose (corn syrup) attaches itself to the fructose sugar, and stops it from crystallising. Thus it blends better than granulated fructose, and should not recrystallise in cold water. It makes it more water soluble.
For fermenting particles and getting the sugar right inside a nut or dry maize, they are better blended together.
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In reply to Post #71
Mark in your original post (some months ago) you said to drain the maize prior to adding sugar , and sealing in a bucket. You described this as the dry method.
Do you still advocate that ,or are you now saying to leave the maize in the liquid it's boiled in , and allow it to ferment in the bucket wet, after adding the fructose and corn syrup ?
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Why mix at all, why not add the fructose and corn syrup separately to the maize?
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In reply to Post #72
Thanks for the info 👍🏻 Mixed the corn syrup and fructose very sticky indeed 🤣 best to decant into a bucket, stir then funnel back into the bottle. Once the process has been achieved can the maize be frozen or will freezing affect the effectiveness?
Thanks
Michael
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In reply to Post #59
Sorry people, I forget that I am used to blending powders and liquids. You can do it easily in the bottle... You just have to take you time and do it slowly through a funnel. Use the handle of a wooden spoon to push it all down like a plunger... Lid on and turn upside down and shake to distribute the sugar. Then repeat the process.
If you feck it up, I'm sure it makes a right ole mess
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A good slug into the water before soaking the particles. in a couple of kg of dry maize I'd put about half a cup full in. Soak and boil as normal. Once removing from the boil put into a sealable bucket whilst red hot, then put another half a cup full of HFCS into the water and seal the lid up. (At this stage I also like to add Demerara sugar). You can experiment and put as much as you like in. You cannot overdo it.
That amount will get everything kicking off inside the maize though.
Next question will be how long do you leave it for.... This is not an exact science and depends totally on current temps when you do it. Roughly one week. The more you keep taking the lid off of the bucket and peeking... The longer it will take. Place it into the sun, or next to a radiator to speed things up. You will start to see a lovely frothy white foam starting to appear on top of the water. This will grow to the top of the bucket.
During this stage, when the white foam is actually 'growing'... It's at its very best IMO. It's like drugs for carp from mother nature.
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I wonder if anyone can help, just a couple of questions regarding the HFCS. How much do you use, say per kilo of prepared maize? Also I think I already know the answer, but do you put in water after boiling or drain water and then add some syrup?
Cheers,
GP
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In reply to Post #66
That makes sense!
I'm sure the Mrs won't notice for a while if her dark brown sugar starts going down steadily...
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The refined stuff can come from beet or cane, it's refined to a point its identical
I'm intrigued by the corn syrup, is this going to be better than my usual mix of cane, fructose and brewing sugar???
The cane is only really there for taste purposes, the latter 2 take care of fermentation
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In reply to Post #61
Demarera is fine, or raw cane sugar.
The white stuff you have in tea has been refined to remove some of the stuff you want
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In reply to Post #62
Raw sugar is brown. White sugar has been treated to remove contaminants and make it look more palatable to the consumer. I'd always go for raw molasses to add to a bait. Unless you're looking for a pure saccharide such as fructose.
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In reply to Post #62
Cane sugar is dark brown
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I though normal white sugar was usually Beet sugar. Cane sugar to me is golden castor.
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Another 'beginner' question from me on this one. When we talk about Cane sugar (simple recipe at the bottom of the thread), are we talking Demerara sugar?
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How much of the fructose/ syrup per kg of maize are people using?
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In reply to Post #58
I started to add the fructose into the bottle and stir it with a bank stick but was a nightmare. In the end I just emptied the syrup into a bait bucket, mixed in the fructose and poured it back into the bottle
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In reply to Post #57
Everything is so sticky now. It's like being on the cleanup crew after a swingers party, stuff's got everywhere.
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In reply to Post #56
Get a bit messy did you.. 
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Just in case anyone is tempted to dump a bag of fructose into the syrup without reading Marks instructions below. Just don't okay, don't!
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In reply to Post #53
You're welcome Ken.
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| | | Boo | | Posts: 8815 | | |
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In reply to Post #53
Ordered a bottle of corn syrup and some fructose from Amazon and mixed them together this morning and then poured a load over my spod mix ready for my 4 night trip tomorrow. Wanted something nice and sticky and this has worked a treat
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Thanks, Mark. Have known about fructose for many years, but never in combination with corn syrup. Good on ya!
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In reply to Post #51
That bottle of corn syrup below, has the contents of that 1kg bag of fructose sugar on the left infused into it. It’s a very small amount left in the bag that I could not fit into the bottle.
That below is the best fermentation aid there is that I've ever found bar none (Glucose/Fructose). It’s all about what that will create in a bait, not so much the liquid itself as such. If you put that into boillies, it will make them fur up rapidly too. Far quicker than normal.
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In reply to Post #42
Now you all went and got your Daesang corn syrup.... Now you can make it even better.
The American stuff is as the name suggests, high in fructose. But this is for fish in a waterborne environment to ferment particles, so we are now going to take it to the extreme.
Take a 1kg bag of fructose sugar, run it through a coffee grinder to make it ultra fine. Stick a funnel into the top of your 5l bottle of Daesang... And add the fructose sugar slowly, using a wooden spoons long handle to stir inside the bottle. You can get 1kg of sugar into a full bottle pretty much, but I always tip a little bit out first to make things easier. At first the corn syrup will go very thick and sticky... But pop the bottle onto a radiator or into the sun, and it will thin back down. Pop a dab on your tongue, it's very lush and moorish. You can see why the yanks get addicted to it.
Get as much fructose into that bottle as you possibly can.
What you have done, is made yourself a 5l bottle of carp crack... And it cost less than a score delivered.
You can thank me later 
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In reply to Post #49
Yep do it now mate 👍 pm d both you guys if it don't arrive just lest me know
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In reply to Post #40
Hi runneil, any chance you could pm me that please?
Thanks,
Andy.
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In reply to Post #40
Yes please mate if you don’t mind ? Thankyou 👍
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In reply to Post #42
Thanks for the link
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In reply to Post #42
Yes, Karo syrup over here, Mark. Good stuff for sweetening & fermenting…..
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In reply to Post #43
Yes they do not like that stuff here, or in Europe either.
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In reply to Post #36
It's not the same thing mate. I will use the dry method when I do not have time. It certainly works. I like to add salt to that too.
It's very weather dependent as to how long you leave stuff in a bucket mate. In cooler temps it might take three weeks to reach nirvana. In red hot weather like we had last week, only a week. You have to be the judge.
Look at Spencers bucket of maize below. For me, as you can see I told him, that is absolutely perfect.
He went down lake, smashed them up. Lovely fish too.
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In reply to Post #42
Im sure its borderline illegal over here
Its lovely though. If you ever try drinks from the american market that use it, and then try the european version that substitutes it for sugar or stevia, the corn syrup drinks are so much smoother, its a totally different type of sweetness. You can see why they're addicted.
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daesang-Corn-Syrup-5kg/dp/B073Q2QCPZ
It's called high fructose corn syrup. The Americans have it in everything, even on their chips... They are pretty much addicted to it. It's so water soluble. It's quite hard to buy over here in the UK as I'm sure some of you have already found.
It's not used in much over here, Bakewell Tarts, Carte D'or ice cream, high energy drinks, stuff like that. It's really really bad for you and linked to diabetes.
It's the best fermentation aid for particles. Carp fooking love it.
Put some of this stuff into the water whilst soaking. Put more into the water after boiling too. Put the lid on the bucket and leave sealed... It will start frothing like the bucket of Spencers maize below within a week or so depending on weather/temps. Hey presto. How far you take that is up to you. I personally do not like to get to the alcohol smelling stage, the real magic comes before that. Others do like to go that far.
Peanuts, the same way as tigers. Slime them up.
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In reply to Post #38
Loads on ebay, non fishing branded.
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In reply to Post #37
I could fo that for you if you like 👍
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In reply to Post #38
BAF is the only place I could find it , but they've been out of stock for months .
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In reply to Post #34
Very impressive captures, do you know if there is a good version of the corn syrup available in the uk?
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In reply to Post #35
Could you pm me the recipe for the fermented peanuts please ? 🙂
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In reply to Post #35
Hi Mark, do you think your 3 to 4 day method of fermenting maize (as posted on here) in a dry state , is as good as say soaking maize for 3 to 4 weeks in a sugar solution ?
The 3 to 4 week method I've tried does smell of alcohol, but not a rotting smell just alcohol.
Do you have any views on either method being better or worse.
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Don't let anyone ever tell you that fermentation does not work.
It's the single biggest attractor of a carp in our armoury as carp anglers. It might not get glossy adverts written about it... But there's simply nothing that turns a carp on more in reality.
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In reply to Post #33
He is mate. He's a lovely man.
He had another brace of 40's 
First time he's ever tried preparing the fermented tigers and maize, 44lb common, 41lb mirror, 40lb common and two 33's is alright. In fact it's pretty spectacular fishing in the UK!
Balanced S2 with a turbo tiger over the top.
View post on imgur.com
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In reply to Post #32
Spencer is an absolute diamond
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This bloke Spencer is a very old & regular customer, I'm sure he will not mind me showing you this. He done some of the fermented tigers and maize with the corn syrup (the stuff that makes Americans plump) the same way I'd advised on here & Faceache.... He liked it a lot, so done some peanuts with it too. He used it last night for the very first time. S2 cc hook bait with a supercharged tiger on top. He had two different 33lb commons. Today he caught a lovely 40+ common.
View post on imgur.com
Edit, unfortunately I'm told the fish are not allowed to be posted on forums, only Faceache so I've had to take them down.
View post on imgur.com
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In reply to Post #28
That's good. I am lazy so get mine online, so the cost of mine being 10 quid+ probably covers postage despite the ebay seller offering "free postage".
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In reply to Post #27
Agree with you completely Ken. Any “ long fermented” vegetable matter such as maize, hemp, etc has the potential to produce chemicals that can act as repellents.
I have been involved with problems caused by “ long fermented “ vegetable matter both in boilie formulations and with the use of it in medium sized commercial day ticket lakes,
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In reply to Post #27
Yes that does look pretty extreme Ken 🤢
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In reply to Post #24
Farm shop near me it's £8 for a 25kg sack, so 40kg+ when prepped. Personally I wouldnt ferment maize, fresh is best imo
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Before everyone gets carried away, please note that rotten maize is not always successful. I watched a French guy pile a bucket of this junk into a swim I had my eye on. I went to the other side of the lake but kept an eye on the area he had baited, and I never saw a fish show, and nor did the guy catch in the whole week he was there. The sh1t was still on the lake bed another week later when I left to come home. Not even the birds would touch it.
I feel sure there is a limit to the amount of 'fermentation'. It's a fine line between fermented and downright rotten. This is my take on it: LINK - CLICK HERE>
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In reply to Post #25
OK thanks 👍
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In reply to Post #17
Where do you get your Maize so cheap ?
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In reply to Post #22
Thanks for all the advice here fellas 👍
So this is what I intend to do :-
take some hard maize and soak it for 24hours.
Boil it up until soft or some splits like pop corn.
Add a hefty dose of sugar.
Leave somewhere warm for 4 to 5 days until it smells like alcohol .
Is that about it ? Can I leave it longer if I don't use all I've made in one hit or is it no good once alcohol smell goes ?
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In reply to Post #15
No, nor enzymes or bacteria, but it'd be remiss not to mention yeast, especially for the angler and with airtight buckets.
For me fermentation (topic title) leans to yeast (naturally occuring), certainly in my fishing using open top containers or closed buckets too.
Given fishing as the situation it would be almost impossible to exclude yeast or bacteria, they're all around us. If the premise is enzymatic activity then it's also reasonable to assume yeast activity as if you haven't denatured the enzymes by heat there's a good possibility you haven't the yeast and certainly not the bacteria.
Edit, Brewers Yeast means different things to different people, to me it means yeast used to make beer, another hobby of many years, sadly no more :-(
EDIT 2, re read that method of Marks, I'm talking on a tangent, not the same thing at all
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Its an interesting subject, i try to use it when its when the fermentation is at its peak, enzyme activity which is after 3-5 days for me pending temperatures. After this point, the alcohol phases and onwards the question is, what adds to the attractiveness
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In reply to Post #15
I think in this process you are just using the natural yeast in the Maize to provide the fermentation, the sugar feeds this natural yeast. The boiling will help release sugar from the Maize itself.
Brewers yeast and Brocacel are not active yeasts so will not aid fermentation.
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In reply to Post #15
I feel sugar is enough.
Plenty of brown sugar and leave it out in the sun. Around day 5 and it's ripe
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In reply to Post #6
It's when it goes from alcohol to a vinegary smell that I find it's less effective. It has a lovely sticky white consistency and leaves a lovely cloud when thrown in.
I've got videos on my phone of fish absolutely hammering a spot 6ft out, completely ignoring the line that they are bumping into constantly. It resembles a bream bite when it really gets going, and gives me an early warning that the fish have arrived on the spot. Some **** commented saying that it was "spawning fish" in the margins
It works better than any boilie i've ever used, and would happily use it for eternity. For just over a tenner for 40kg of prepped boozy maize, it's a no brainer.
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In reply to Post #14
Haven't seen anyone mention yeast yet ? Would that be breweres yeast or Brocacel ?
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In reply to Post #13
Depends on the size of the bucket might need a bloody big balloon
Cheap beer airlock for a few quid would be a better option, but then there's a hole in the lid, not a prob if you have a few spare.
Me, I just crack the lid open at the edge slightly.
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In reply to Post #12
A plumbing fitting in the lid with a balloon on it would be a cheap fix.
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For anyone trying the air tight bucket method I'd be very wary where you put it, especially If you truly have a air tight bucket. Capping anything with active yeast and a good supply of sugar is not really a good idea.
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In reply to Post #3
Sorry. Not a very informative post was it.. 
What I should of added was leave for a few days ideally somewhere warm. You should the start to get that boozy vinergary smell as the natural sugars start to ferment. Its then probably at it's best. I'm more of a less is more type person. But no doubt adding things like sugar or salt will no doubt not do any harm. Just ask Terry hearn he likes his salty sweet Maize. 
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In reply to Post #6
Toronto, how long re you leaving your boiled, sugary maize for ? in a air tight bucket im guessing ?
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In reply to Post #6
That's interesting thanks
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In reply to Post #4
Thanks I saw that from Mark, just wondered if there was a better long term way , Mark knows just stuff so maybe not?
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| | | Boo | | Posts: 8815 | | |
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In reply to Post #3
This is from Mark at Specialized Hookbaits
Take some dry maize, maize is much better than human prepared sweetcorn. Prepared sweetcorn is gold dust, but not for what we are doing here. It has preservatives in there. These will inhibit what you are trying to achieve. Use dry maize, and you do not need bucketfuls. Take 1lb of dry maize. Soak in a bucket with warm water, and some raw cane sugar. Just a table spoon full or two. Soak this for twelve hours. Boil it up for ten minutes. You do not want to break the maize by boiling it. The kernels should remain intact. Once boiled, drain, and place back into a small bucket. Add a big hand full of raw cane sugar whilst still hot, and shake up. Put the lid tightly on the bucket... Then place on a radiator, or in direct sunlight. For at least forty eight hours, thirty six is even better. Don't peek, just leave the lid on. No new air must enter the bucket, for the very best results. Now take the lid off, and throw a handful of natural salt onto them. Shake the maize up... It's now good to go. You have helped to get things kicking inside the maize itself. The heat and the sugar, have helped the maize to ferment. The salt will help to sort of freeze, or slow down this fermentation for you, for longer use in an angling situation. What you have now, is super charged maize. You only need a handful around each rod with your other free bait. It will make a big difference. It's time specific. When it starts to smell strongly of alcohol, the magic is gone. Start again.
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In reply to Post #2
Don't you add anything like sugar, and how long you leaving it for days, weeks , or longer 🤔
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In reply to Post #1
Just boil it up. Leave it in a sealed bucket. Nature will take care of the rest.
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Anyone got a recipe of how to prepare fermented Maize ?
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