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In reply to Post #39
Very very rare do I use lead clips as the lakes I fish are pretty much open or I fish my local canal from may to September anyway,I feel for me personally I have no need to use a lead clip.
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In reply to Post #38
Used it twice and it worked for me. I was told by the local tackle shop that whiplash sank and found it didn't. Having spent the money on 3 reels worth had to try something. On those 2 occasions it felt like reeling in fluoro.
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In reply to Post #37
It makes ordinary whiplash sink ?
Do people who use braid use it in all situations ?
I use fluro for close range and on ressies with a flat bottom , no features etc
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In reply to Post #36
Don't know whether it will work with the Gardner but a treatment with Kryston Greased Lightning certainly worked on Whiplash for me.
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In reply to Post #35
Yeah I understand what your saying I use running rigs and Fluoro for short range fishing
Bough some Gardner braid and I can’t get it to sink
I haven’t used it , only placed it along a margin
Maybe with a bit of use
So what’s your thoughts when used with back leads
Would the sensitivity suffer? It shouldn’t in theory just two tubes 😂
I can’t stand using them , but have tried on a ressie to combat undertow
My Confidence in them is low
Edit when a say fixed lead I’m talking semi fixed with semi tight lines
So once the lead is lifted , then surely the line would behave the same
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In reply to Post #33
Think of running leads with slack lines as the line is free running through a tube. Until you have pulled up the slack, it comes easily.
Now think of the same with a semi-fixed lead, or running (bolt rig) with a tight line to the rod tip, it is harder to pull.
Now equate that to indication, the running lead and slack line, the carp is taking line through that 'tube', on any movement, whichever direction it swims. You will get a bleep, indicator movement, until the slack line is pulled tight.
A semi-fixed lead on tight line is trying to 'cut through' the water.
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In reply to Post #32
Thanks Andy, food for thought for me.
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In reply to Post #32
Read lots of arguments , I’m sure if there was a way they was superior and stood out
we would all use it
Can’t get my head around slack lining dynamics and that it’s more sensitive
A fixed lead would still have the same dynamics with water resistance on the line?
Don’t get me wrong I use semi slack and slackish lines all the time
This dosnt make me right
Think sometimes it just surprising Mr carp that’s the difference
The only item of tackle I’ve ever found to make a difference so far is a hook😂
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In reply to Post #30
I've fished at 100yds+ with light bobbins and slack lines to good effect. Personally I wouldn't be using a light lead if dropping from a boat at range. The chances of getting back to the bank without having dragged the rig along the bottom would be remote IMO.
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In reply to Post #25
I think unless the line is very slack and using a light bobbin the lead more often than not moves but the big advantage apart from better indication over a say a lead clip as i think you and others have said its harder for the fish to use the lead to shake the hook out as it slides away
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In reply to Post #29
Light bobbins even if fishing at range after dropping rigs via a boat Andy like the OP?
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In reply to Post #16
I think that the weight of the bobbin is more important for bite detection than lead size or whether it's fixed or running. Light bobbins all the way for me.
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In reply to Post #26
Yep, imagine what happens when the big girls get about our rigs! Carnage...
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In reply to Post #21
Have used running rigs on and off since I started fishing from 1/2oz right up and they all work, it's about the situations you face.
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In reply to Post #25
Exactly. A fish of 2lb is lifting a 4oz lead up off the deck as it moves off after being hooked. I’d say if anything the heavier the weight bouncing on the line could be a hinderance and could rip a hook free.
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In reply to Post #20
What do you think is happening down there when the fish is going for it before lifting into the fish? The lead sat there while the fish takes off?
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In reply to Post #23
Never had an issue either from 1/2 oz right up and agreed the movement actually helps, it's all about resistance and even running rigs have some which the fish feel.
Still stunned that many think the lead stays put on the take, in most cases it will be moving and bouncing all over the place.
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Never had an issue using 2oz leads with runnings rigs, albeit never at range. Don’t see too much issue even if it moves, it’s only driving the hook home deeper as it does. Just my opinion of course. I’ve used them extensively for over a decade as regardless of tight, slack, heavy or light leads, they are much more efficient than in lines or lead clips. Korda underwater taught me that, think it was the second dvd where they did all manner of underwater tests on line, lead setups, etc. With a diver.
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In reply to Post #16
I believe Rob Hughes did do a test on running leads on mono in the Underwater Carping series in Carpology (?). I can't remember who he was testing.
However I felt him moving the lead rather than the hookbait negated the test. I can understand why though, obviously you don't want a hook in your finger, but it did not give a genuine result.
Personally I prefer a heavier lead when fishing running leads 3-3.5oz, I don't want the lead moving on the take, and yes, flat pear or grippa leads do hold still better than 'round' pear or distance leads on hard lakebeds, but in silt or clay the normal lead can 'plug'.
I noticed someone mentioned a couple of bleeps before a screamer, I had the same with running leads on run rings.
A running lead set-up is similar to a bolt rig. If you have a copy of Kevin Maddocks Carp Fever, quite literally the only difference is whether it is fished slack or tight line.
Obviously both work at the right time. You can't fish a running lead when undertow is pulling your line, whereas the tight line can stop the line moving (d'oh).
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In reply to Post #19
Always use the heaviest lead I can get away with so there is the least chance of the lead moving at all. If the lead moves then you may as well use a lead clip or inline system. The main reason for using a running lead is to offer the least amount of resistance on the fish picking up the bait and not being able to use the lead as any sort of tool to help it dislodge the hook from its mouth should it be initially *****ed - especially on heavily pressured fish that have learnt to use the lead to rid the hook by shaking its head & not moving. With the heavier lead not moving easily the fish can move in any direction it wants to giving indication, but if it can move the lead when picking the bait up, then it could easily move to side to side or towards you without any indication.
May not be as cut & dried as we may like to think, but the more it is in our favour the better & using a heavy lead with a running rig offers the optimum requirements for how the rig is designed to work. All of the negatives mentioned there all point to using a heavier lead to stop those from occurring. How many anglers would think of using a rigid stem like what you would use on a marker setup to attach the lead & allow the line to run freely should it be fished over a softer or dirtier substrate? Works well in pike fishing where you ant the least resistance as possible to stop the Pike from dropping the bait before it turns with it.
Heavy lead (4oz+) with a large diameter "run ring" allows the line to run as freely as it can be regardless of the substrate, which in turn gives the best indication on the bobbins regardless of direction the fish moves in. Having the line clipped up at the rod butt helps to set the hook properly as the initial lack of resistance from the light indicator & slack line will have the fish moving away with very little knowledge it has been "ricked" with a sharp hook - hence why most takes are a few bleeps until the bobbin reaches the alarm before screaming off.
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In reply to Post #19
Would it matter if the lead didn't stay totally put on a decent take? you should already be lifting into the fish, also depending on how tight the line is to the rod has an effect on different lead sizes.
I've used running leads almost exclusively for the last 20 years or so apart from weedy venues in the uk or big foreign snaggy venues where i have felt it better to drop the weight(not necessary a lead), i can say they work with both slack and tight lines i choose my lead size and how tight my line is depending on distance fished and water conditions.
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In reply to Post #15
What size running leads are you alluding to 3, 4, 5, 6 oz leads or above? What benefits do you think it negates? Can't be just indication?
Does it matter if the lead moves and the line may not run through the swivel as effectively? Could this help if it does?
If we factor in line used, it's lay & angle, tension from water, debris, etc is it really as cut and dried as we like to imagine?
Not sure the lead stays put while the line runs through it unless using a huge weight especially with the force of a decent take.
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In reply to Post #16
well said
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In reply to Post #2
Years ago i used to use a heavy inline flat pear, bored out with a bead about a foot and a half behind as a shocker. Nice semi slack line, on a few occasions seemed to have a small liner before an absolute ripper. Which in hindsight was probably a carp not knowing what to do with itself! Fantastic set up that was, makes me wonder why i dont use it anymore!
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This would be a great subject for an underwater test. Running rigs - braid, flouro or mono - light or heavy leads??? Can someone contact Rob Hughes?
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Don't forget though than running rigs work better with heavier leads so that there is less chance of the lead moving & allows the line to run through the lead swivel more effectively. I see too many people on the bank using them with 1oz leads & heavier bobbins that needed which when the fish picks the rig up, the lead moves before the bobbin does negating the benefits of using a running setup. A large flat pear or square lead works much better than a similar sized rounded pear lead IMHO. Even with inline setups fished running, the best leads for those I have found are the Nash flat square ones. Removing the insert & polishing the insides to remove any burrs etc work fantastically on straight mono/fluorocarbon or even tubing, as I do not like using leaders of any type other than when fishing a rotary/helicopter setup as the risk of the fish carrying a leader around should you crack off, etc is just as dangerous as a fixed lead IMHO especially with materials that hold memory like leadcore or cannot be broken easily should they get snagged.
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In reply to Post #13
Yes I agree running leads work fine with slack lines, in fact so do fixed leads but only if you use the lightest bobbins you can get away with.
I never fish stupidly slack lines probably more semi slack, but sinking the line carefully and using light bobbins has made a big difference to indication even at range.
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In reply to Post #4
I fish runnings rigs and slack lines all the time. With a running rig no matter how far the fish moves or in what direction you get a positive indication. You don’t really get a drop back because the fish pulls line through the lead.
Nonsense saying you can’t and shouldn’t do it.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #11
It’s not fair to dismiss slack lines, most practices have their purpose.
If you’re fishing a clear feeding patch at 30 yards where fish patrol through the path of your mainline, then you’ll slacken off and sink the line.
Fishing with any undertow or flow would be a disaster.
And to the first post, if you’re using braid with a running rig use a heavy fluoro or mono leader.. though you are then potentially leaving a fish towing a hooklink and leader 
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Back in the day , 30 ish years ago we only fished running leads with bow tight lines, so tight the tips had a bend in them. The takes were fantastic and hooks were none to sharp back then either, slack line talk is ********.
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In reply to Post #2
He could be using sinking braid though, having said that floating can be useful to get over snags and bars. I've never really liked fishing running rigs at distance in all but the calmest of conditions and even then I'd use the heaviest lead I could get away with to enhance any take/reduce the chance of the lead moving and getting no indication.
It's a balancing act for the indication, give it a good wind and the resitance required at the indicator end just to make the line stay put, puts any notion of it being free running (as in the fish not feeling resitance) out of the window.
Also been in the position where the resistance from tight lines and under tow has allowed the fish to kite taking the lead with it with no indication, the under tow taking up any slack and keeping the indicator in place. That was simply because I couldn't hold bottom with the leads I had, worth pointing out as it can happen.
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In reply to Post #4
You've got that arse about face chap...
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In reply to Post #4
Yeah totally don’t get that logic or advise it, I would definitely recommend doing it the other way round. Running leads - slack lines, fixed leads - semi tight/tight lines.
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Same here I’m 
I wouldn’t use fixed leads if fishing with mega slack lines, always running... the fish could be swimming for miles before you got any indication with slack lines and fixed leads.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #5
Neither do I
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In reply to Post #4
I don’t get your logic
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In reply to Post #2
Slack line with running leads  Fixed lead for slack lines! With a running lead you should fish tight lines... but if you want to miss takes, crack on 
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In reply to Post #2
I do the same as you Nick.
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In reply to Post #1
Running leads should be fished on a slack, sinking line, your braid is likely to float.
I say 'should be fished', in theory it doesn't make any difference as the line is free running, but unfortunately water currents, undertow, even wind will affect the line moving in the water.
The best way I found to get mono to sink and run along the lakebed, sounds wrong, is tighten up after casting, putting the rod tip under the water. Keeping the tip as low as possible, pull line off the reel as you put the rod on the buzzers, attach indicator, and pull more line off the reel until the indicator hangs straight down, and the line is in curves between each rod ring, touching every one, with it also going straight down from the rod tip.
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Like a lot of us these days I’ve been blinded by the use of fixed heavy leads and popped up baits .But recently I’ve been thinking of going back to basics and fishing a running lead system on braid mainline , with a hair rigged bottom bait on an ultra sharp hook . Mainly for better bite indication . I fish at distance dropping my lead via boat . Can anyone see any disadvantage using a running lead set up ?
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