In reply to Post #45
I wouldn't be surprised to see a new company emerge from the ashes in europe as nashbread,eu or sumfin, all the UK gear shipped out at a nominal cost (creative accounting).
I wouldn't be surprised to see a new company emerge from the ashes in europe as nashbread,eu or sumfin, all the UK gear shipped out at a nominal cost (creative accounting).
In reply to Post #37
Yep spot on. Boom time is over, people are getting sick of paying ridiculous prices now.
Yep spot on. Boom time is over, people are getting sick of paying ridiculous prices now.
In reply to Post #46
Here's one I haven't seen mentioned yet. DJ's Monster Squid. Although I don't think it was ever released, if my memory serves me well, it was made by one of their rollers (DJ) & was a mix of both the Monster Pursuit & S Mix with if I remember correctly, a banana oil palatant & flavour? It did a lot of fish to those who were lucky enough to get it, so I never understood why they never released it???
Here's one I haven't seen mentioned yet. DJ's Monster Squid. Although I don't think it was ever released, if my memory serves me well, it was made by one of their rollers (DJ) & was a mix of both the Monster Pursuit & S Mix with if I remember correctly, a banana oil palatant & flavour? It did a lot of fish to those who were lucky enough to get it, so I never understood why they never released it???
In reply to Post #48
Yes Monster Squid was released, back in 2010 if I remember correctly?
It certainly was a good bait. I was using it when the water was too cold to use Fen Mix (dark), now that really was some exceptional bait.
Yes Monster Squid was released, back in 2010 if I remember correctly?
It certainly was a good bait. I was using it when the water was too cold to use Fen Mix (dark), now that really was some exceptional bait.
I can see a lot of company's picking up and cashing in on there recipes now. A lot probably already have. Scopex squid was quite a unique and ground breaking recipe that's caught a he'll of a lot of fish for it to just disappear of the radar.
Someone like Jason Ryder from A baits. Who used to work for Nash bait could probably get it rolled as close to the recipe as anyone.
Someone like Jason Ryder from A baits. Who used to work for Nash bait could probably get it rolled as close to the recipe as anyone.
In reply to Post #13
It's a great shame. Whatever you might think of their current products or marketing, Nashbait is an historic brand that most older anglers will have used something from at some point and at the end of the day, people are losing jobs.
Most comments here and elsewhere seem very UK-focused in terms of what they should have done better. Yes that top level quality may (or maybe not, but thats another subject!) be important on the 10 % of "hardest" UK circuit waters, but the people fishing those waters have not been their target market for years, understandably as it is a tiny portion of the market when you look at europe as a whole.
Obviously the retail mark-ups are a problem (more so in the UK again), as are increasing raw materials costs, Mark from baitworks talks about it regularly on his podcast. However, you might be surprised to learn the prices of "decent" baits (say equivalent to Nash) in europe, even direct, its just not that cheap. To get the real cheap prices you would have to go to the big belgian outfits that sell proper old school "crap" 50/50 (or worse!) type baits. Also, distribution is no joke, it's one thing selling direct in the UK, but on the scale of europe it is not that easy. Of the bigger direct-selling UK firms DNA do it via germany, don't know how it's going but don't see anyone in France using it, and Baitworks have been looking at it for several years but don't seem to be able to have found a way to make it viable yet. Selling via retailers does help a lot logistically.
I don't they priced themselves out of the market, Mainline for example is much more expensive over here, but I don't know how much they sell. Given brexit, I think the mistake was setting up the new factory in the UK and not in europe, plus probably growing too fast with the difficulty that brings?
It's a great shame. Whatever you might think of their current products or marketing, Nashbait is an historic brand that most older anglers will have used something from at some point and at the end of the day, people are losing jobs.
Most comments here and elsewhere seem very UK-focused in terms of what they should have done better. Yes that top level quality may (or maybe not, but thats another subject!) be important on the 10 % of "hardest" UK circuit waters, but the people fishing those waters have not been their target market for years, understandably as it is a tiny portion of the market when you look at europe as a whole.
Obviously the retail mark-ups are a problem (more so in the UK again), as are increasing raw materials costs, Mark from baitworks talks about it regularly on his podcast. However, you might be surprised to learn the prices of "decent" baits (say equivalent to Nash) in europe, even direct, its just not that cheap. To get the real cheap prices you would have to go to the big belgian outfits that sell proper old school "crap" 50/50 (or worse!) type baits. Also, distribution is no joke, it's one thing selling direct in the UK, but on the scale of europe it is not that easy. Of the bigger direct-selling UK firms DNA do it via germany, don't know how it's going but don't see anyone in France using it, and Baitworks have been looking at it for several years but don't seem to be able to have found a way to make it viable yet. Selling via retailers does help a lot logistically.
I don't they priced themselves out of the market, Mainline for example is much more expensive over here, but I don't know how much they sell. Given brexit, I think the mistake was setting up the new factory in the UK and not in europe, plus probably growing too fast with the difficulty that brings?
In reply to Post #51
I wonder if nash bait supporting so many "sponsored" anglers has become unsustainable.
They go fishing and create content, etc, but not sure that translates into sales so much.
They all drive around in deluxe vw transporters, have top end equipment chucked at them, user promotion, but ultimately it must be draining the bank account. Are the vans included?
No matter how great the video content was I'd never be happy to use their bait. Ultimately the quality of the bait has to be good or exceptional. Home rollers can make a better product, and quite a few established companies have overtaken nash for quite some time now.
I used to use some of their flavours back in the day, and they were great...
Red liver, salmon oil palatant, shellfish concentrate, etc. That was 30+ years ago.
I wonder if nash bait supporting so many "sponsored" anglers has become unsustainable.
They go fishing and create content, etc, but not sure that translates into sales so much.
They all drive around in deluxe vw transporters, have top end equipment chucked at them, user promotion, but ultimately it must be draining the bank account. Are the vans included?
No matter how great the video content was I'd never be happy to use their bait. Ultimately the quality of the bait has to be good or exceptional. Home rollers can make a better product, and quite a few established companies have overtaken nash for quite some time now.
I used to use some of their flavours back in the day, and they were great...
Red liver, salmon oil palatant, shellfish concentrate, etc. That was 30+ years ago.
In reply to Post #33
Quote.... Didn't John timmerman move to nash from cc Moore in the last year or so?
Poor John.
They were adding little side notes onto anglers yearly contracts just a couple months ago regarding us, telling their anglers that they were not allowed to mention using our hook baits anymore. Trying to cause problems. They did cause problems for a week or two... Until I saw what was going on.
I had to tell the lad in question, "No problem, you don't get our stuff anymore and nor do any of your pals". "Go use the stuff that you get for free, that you don't actually want to use". He instantly went back to mentioning us. A) because as he has some integrity & B) because he 100% did not want to lose his edge. But they put it right on him... I'd spent the last year mentioning their freezer bait when the lad caught. They had spent the last year trying to 'imply' to their clueless followers that he was having his amazing results with their bait on the rig....Because I have absolutely zero to hide. They did. They would have very happily destroyed the lads relationship with us just as they were about to go under. At least he was honest, others bow to their pressure with a van load of free kit, that you lot pay for ultimately.
Their media kids who exist solely for likes on socials, have shat on people for years for their likes. They will not get much sympathy from certain sectors. I hope every single one of the poor lads who work in the bait factory find new jobs soon. The people at the top will be just fine, those lads will not.
I've never publicised a single carp that I've caught in the last seven or eight years, not one single carp. Nothing. It does not happen anymore. Solely down to their media div & his all his media influencer pals (non Thames anglers) who blew the river Thames to absolute pieces, just for some extra Instagram likes. This memory popped up on my social media today. Irony.
Quote.... Didn't John timmerman move to nash from cc Moore in the last year or so?
Poor John.
They were adding little side notes onto anglers yearly contracts just a couple months ago regarding us, telling their anglers that they were not allowed to mention using our hook baits anymore. Trying to cause problems. They did cause problems for a week or two... Until I saw what was going on.
I had to tell the lad in question, "No problem, you don't get our stuff anymore and nor do any of your pals". "Go use the stuff that you get for free, that you don't actually want to use". He instantly went back to mentioning us. A) because as he has some integrity & B) because he 100% did not want to lose his edge. But they put it right on him... I'd spent the last year mentioning their freezer bait when the lad caught. They had spent the last year trying to 'imply' to their clueless followers that he was having his amazing results with their bait on the rig....Because I have absolutely zero to hide. They did. They would have very happily destroyed the lads relationship with us just as they were about to go under. At least he was honest, others bow to their pressure with a van load of free kit, that you lot pay for ultimately.
Their media kids who exist solely for likes on socials, have shat on people for years for their likes. They will not get much sympathy from certain sectors. I hope every single one of the poor lads who work in the bait factory find new jobs soon. The people at the top will be just fine, those lads will not.
I've never publicised a single carp that I've caught in the last seven or eight years, not one single carp. Nothing. It does not happen anymore. Solely down to their media div & his all his media influencer pals (non Thames anglers) who blew the river Thames to absolute pieces, just for some extra Instagram likes. This memory popped up on my social media today. Irony.
In reply to Post #52
Nash were not getting the sales in the EU as they anticipated , reason being baits like the Key et al were far too expensive for their marketplace . Why would you buy a bait of inferior quality that is 15 euro a KG when you can buy a very good bait from a firm such as Boilie and more Wildon or Bait service Straubing for 9.99 Euro ?
Nash were far too expensive even before BREXIT.
However Nash do have a very good following in countries like Austria and Germany for their tackle , because all of the entry level carpers over there are Nash fan boys.
Fox made the right move in putting a distribution center in the EU quite a few years ago , and it's been a success . They don't obviously produce boilies but there are so many bait firms out there these days.
I do feel sadness that part of the carp fishing history is disappearing in Nashbait , but it's a natural progression to follow this more suitable business model. Remember Nash bought up the old Catchum company of Rods and picked up some great recipes and ingredients from that.
I purchased what I think we're two of the very first Nash products , the weigh sling/sack and the sleeping bag cover , the quality was great and it was all that was available in the early 80s, what I see from Nash these days is is not what I would say is Chinese tat , that some people describe it as but the quality is not there anymore , as an example I bought the titan globetrotter a few years back and the paint job and finishing on the metalwork was crapola.
What makes me wonder about Nash is Kevin Nash himself has made a video that is on Facebook where he states that he was nearly bankrupt at one point and considering winding Nash down as he could not compete any longer with the Chinese made tackle. He stated he had a change of philosophy and made high end bed chairs and bivvies in the UK , trying to provide high quality products to the masses , this he says turned the company around , only for him a few years later to start manufacturing those items in China.!!!!
I don't think we are hearing the whole truth from Alan Blair in his video , I think other factors are coming into play.
Nash were not getting the sales in the EU as they anticipated , reason being baits like the Key et al were far too expensive for their marketplace . Why would you buy a bait of inferior quality that is 15 euro a KG when you can buy a very good bait from a firm such as Boilie and more Wildon or Bait service Straubing for 9.99 Euro ?
Nash were far too expensive even before BREXIT.
However Nash do have a very good following in countries like Austria and Germany for their tackle , because all of the entry level carpers over there are Nash fan boys.
Fox made the right move in putting a distribution center in the EU quite a few years ago , and it's been a success . They don't obviously produce boilies but there are so many bait firms out there these days.
I do feel sadness that part of the carp fishing history is disappearing in Nashbait , but it's a natural progression to follow this more suitable business model. Remember Nash bought up the old Catchum company of Rods and picked up some great recipes and ingredients from that.
I purchased what I think we're two of the very first Nash products , the weigh sling/sack and the sleeping bag cover , the quality was great and it was all that was available in the early 80s, what I see from Nash these days is is not what I would say is Chinese tat , that some people describe it as but the quality is not there anymore , as an example I bought the titan globetrotter a few years back and the paint job and finishing on the metalwork was crapola.
What makes me wonder about Nash is Kevin Nash himself has made a video that is on Facebook where he states that he was nearly bankrupt at one point and considering winding Nash down as he could not compete any longer with the Chinese made tackle. He stated he had a change of philosophy and made high end bed chairs and bivvies in the UK , trying to provide high quality products to the masses , this he says turned the company around , only for him a few years later to start manufacturing those items in China.!!!!
I don't think we are hearing the whole truth from Alan Blair in his video , I think other factors are coming into play.
It is a shame - it was a pretty big thing when Nashbait started and being the 'spawn' of Catchum they had some great recipes, like for many, Sting fish mix recipes pre and post Success pack, and Scopex Sq., Tangee Sq. along with many others.
I'd hope when they see the positive responses, let things settle a bit and have a rethink maybe bring back some other proven squid mixes and then sell boilies and jarred particles direct.
lets face it, most of Essex have been buying baits 'direct' for many years from a 'field tester' a field testers mate, or their gran thats got a spare chest freezer in the shed.
In reply to Post #1
Whatever happened to Gary Hayes he was the bait guru at nash
Whatever happened to Gary Hayes he was the bait guru at nash
In reply to Post #56
Gary bayes... Health complications and getting on a bit so took a back seat and was used more in a consultancy role I believe
Gary bayes... Health complications and getting on a bit so took a back seat and was used more in a consultancy role I believe
In reply to Post #54
To be fair, Nashbait is under 10€/kg in France if you buy by 5kg.
Maybe it is more expensive in Germany / Austria, I don't know.
To be fair, Nashbait is under 10€/kg in France if you buy by 5kg.
Maybe it is more expensive in Germany / Austria, I don't know.
In reply to Post #52
Quote... I wonder if nash bait supporting so many "sponsored" anglers has become unsustainable. They go fishing and create content, etc, but not sure that translates into sales so much.
100% correct Dave.
The problem with all these big companies these days is they truly believe this is all that is needed for success. That's because in the old days of magazines it WAS. Control the media, control the sales. That's what they did.
The product quality became secondary to them all. They still believe that if they control the media & all the influencers, they will control the sales. But those days are long gone. The internet saw to that. Try as they might, they simply cannot keep a lid on the internet like they did with the magazines, and in reality a small bunch of influencers.
I have a game for you all to play.... Go to the larger, older bait companies social media.... Then start going through the posts. What you will actually find is, that 99.9% of what you will see, is ALL paid influencers. Even the ones you think are not. It's not really, 'real'. People woke up to it all.
If they put the investment into REAL quality products, instead of just relying on influencers to drag in people that young anglers aspire to be.... They would not be struggling. But the quality of product is long gone. When the quality of product is gone... The influencers are not worth a ****. Their target audience is the most fickle around. They will jump ship the moment a better offer comes along.
The bloke I mentioned below, was sent a van load of tackle, along with a plea to stop mentioning us at the same time. It did not work. Maybe if they just woke up to the fact that no amount of free Chinese tackle is going to stop a determined carp angler once he has an edge & has found products that blow their own free ones out of the water.... They would have chosen a different path. But they all just still assume that if they control the media, they control the sales.
Why do you lot HONESTLY believe these companies churn out free media, after free media, CONSTANTLY? Does anyone truly believe that it's for the good of yourselves? Or the good of angling? Of course it's not, it's for the good of themselves. They used to control Tim Paisley & the rest with a bit of advertising.... But they cannot control the internet. They can pump out as much free media as they want trying to portray an image. But the fact remains, anglers in the UK stopped using the gear donkeys years ago. Ever since, it's all just been media spin. This comes as a shock to all of you. Some can't believe that it's true. Of course it's true. Multi million pound companies do not fold for no reason.
Look what's going on with Ali now.... Offering kids & novices £100 vouchers for their catch reports
Imagine the amount of bait they likely just sold.... Why are the UK catch reports not coming out of their earholes?
Quote... I wonder if nash bait supporting so many "sponsored" anglers has become unsustainable. They go fishing and create content, etc, but not sure that translates into sales so much.
100% correct Dave.
The problem with all these big companies these days is they truly believe this is all that is needed for success. That's because in the old days of magazines it WAS. Control the media, control the sales. That's what they did.
The product quality became secondary to them all. They still believe that if they control the media & all the influencers, they will control the sales. But those days are long gone. The internet saw to that. Try as they might, they simply cannot keep a lid on the internet like they did with the magazines, and in reality a small bunch of influencers.
I have a game for you all to play.... Go to the larger, older bait companies social media.... Then start going through the posts. What you will actually find is, that 99.9% of what you will see, is ALL paid influencers. Even the ones you think are not. It's not really, 'real'. People woke up to it all.
If they put the investment into REAL quality products, instead of just relying on influencers to drag in people that young anglers aspire to be.... They would not be struggling. But the quality of product is long gone. When the quality of product is gone... The influencers are not worth a ****. Their target audience is the most fickle around. They will jump ship the moment a better offer comes along.
The bloke I mentioned below, was sent a van load of tackle, along with a plea to stop mentioning us at the same time. It did not work. Maybe if they just woke up to the fact that no amount of free Chinese tackle is going to stop a determined carp angler once he has an edge & has found products that blow their own free ones out of the water.... They would have chosen a different path. But they all just still assume that if they control the media, they control the sales.
Why do you lot HONESTLY believe these companies churn out free media, after free media, CONSTANTLY? Does anyone truly believe that it's for the good of yourselves? Or the good of angling? Of course it's not, it's for the good of themselves. They used to control Tim Paisley & the rest with a bit of advertising.... But they cannot control the internet. They can pump out as much free media as they want trying to portray an image. But the fact remains, anglers in the UK stopped using the gear donkeys years ago. Ever since, it's all just been media spin. This comes as a shock to all of you. Some can't believe that it's true. Of course it's true. Multi million pound companies do not fold for no reason.
Look what's going on with Ali now.... Offering kids & novices £100 vouchers for their catch reports
Imagine the amount of bait they likely just sold.... Why are the UK catch reports not coming out of their earholes?
In reply to Post #51
Quote.... Yes that top level quality may (or maybe not, but thats another subject!) be important on the 10 % of "hardest" UK circuit waters, but the people fishing those waters have not been their target market for years, understandably as it is a tiny portion of the market when you look at europe as a whole.
Top level quality 'might' or 'might not' be important? Did you really just say that? Really? That's the type of attitude that would have seen them go under.
You speak like they are doing things correctly. They just went out of business if you did not notice. You speak of 'target' audiences.... They ONLY got to the size they did by dominating the top UK waters. Not Euro waters where you could often use anything and catch. The moment they were NEVER even being used anymore on the top waters in the UK.... It was because there were better alternatives. The best anglers find that out first. Eventually that filters down.
So you are pretty much saying they gave up on quality, to sell sub standard stuff on a large scale in Europe? Off the back of previous great products & former glories? From a time when they were consistently being used on the top waters in the UK, because they were among the best around. Because that is what made their name. Not what you are alluding to whatsoever!! That is exactly what has destroyed their name. If an angler is catching five times more on one bait, compared to their bait alongside it.... You expect said angler to continue purchasing what they sell? That is not the way things work at all. No amount of influencers or spin can change that. These are just the facts of life.
You honestly think that would last? The Europeans have their own bait companies now. The old days are long gone. They lost their footing in the UK market. According to you, intentionally.... Game over.
Edit... If the quality is not so important over there... Why you having our hook baits sent to France Sam? That is a contradiction in itself mate
Quote.... Yes that top level quality may (or maybe not, but thats another subject!) be important on the 10 % of "hardest" UK circuit waters, but the people fishing those waters have not been their target market for years, understandably as it is a tiny portion of the market when you look at europe as a whole.
Top level quality 'might' or 'might not' be important? Did you really just say that? Really? That's the type of attitude that would have seen them go under.
You speak like they are doing things correctly. They just went out of business if you did not notice. You speak of 'target' audiences.... They ONLY got to the size they did by dominating the top UK waters. Not Euro waters where you could often use anything and catch. The moment they were NEVER even being used anymore on the top waters in the UK.... It was because there were better alternatives. The best anglers find that out first. Eventually that filters down.
So you are pretty much saying they gave up on quality, to sell sub standard stuff on a large scale in Europe? Off the back of previous great products & former glories? From a time when they were consistently being used on the top waters in the UK, because they were among the best around. Because that is what made their name. Not what you are alluding to whatsoever!! That is exactly what has destroyed their name. If an angler is catching five times more on one bait, compared to their bait alongside it.... You expect said angler to continue purchasing what they sell? That is not the way things work at all. No amount of influencers or spin can change that. These are just the facts of life.
You honestly think that would last? The Europeans have their own bait companies now. The old days are long gone. They lost their footing in the UK market. According to you, intentionally.... Game over.
Edit... If the quality is not so important over there... Why you having our hook baits sent to France Sam? That is a contradiction in itself mate