This should be a sticky, if you don't mind me saying so...
In recent years, the use of glass bubbles or spheres in a basemix, to create a pop up, has become very popular...however there seems to be little or no guidance around regarding their use, which is a scandal.
If inhaled, these things can be deadly, just as other things such as asbestos lodge in the lungs, so can these. Their main use is in the construction industry , where they are injected into iron girders and the like, to reduce weight. When used in the industry, positive pressure facial masks MUST be worn.
I know that even some bait companies treat these things as fairly harmless, its only a matter of time before an employee is made serously ill using them.
The bottom line, if you MUST use them to make a pop up mix at home, be VERY careful....try and work in a well ventilated place, wear the best quaity facemask you can afford, and try and "calm" the spheres by spraying them with an atomiser or by lightly smearing the inside of the bag with a little vegetable oil
Some people seem to know all about this - others seem blissfully ignorant - DON'T BE its your health
Matt
In recent years, the use of glass bubbles or spheres in a basemix, to create a pop up, has become very popular...however there seems to be little or no guidance around regarding their use, which is a scandal.
If inhaled, these things can be deadly, just as other things such as asbestos lodge in the lungs, so can these. Their main use is in the construction industry , where they are injected into iron girders and the like, to reduce weight. When used in the industry, positive pressure facial masks MUST be worn.
I know that even some bait companies treat these things as fairly harmless, its only a matter of time before an employee is made serously ill using them.
The bottom line, if you MUST use them to make a pop up mix at home, be VERY careful....try and work in a well ventilated place, wear the best quaity facemask you can afford, and try and "calm" the spheres by spraying them with an atomiser or by lightly smearing the inside of the bag with a little vegetable oil
Some people seem to know all about this - others seem blissfully ignorant - DON'T BE its your health
Matt
In reply to Post #7
A couple of points on this ;
1/ Do you realise how small these are ? Less than 10 thousandths millimeter . Even if a carp swallows a pop-up and digests all the base mix the spheres will pass straight through as they are inert and too small to be ground up b the carps teeth.
2/The risks to humans using the spheres in bait manufacture are small , and neglidgable if you follow the manufacturers recommended safety precautions . Here is an extract from the 3M Scotchlite Glassbubbles safety data sheet which are the most commonly used type ;
Inhalation:
Upper Respiratory Tract Irritation: Signs/symptoms may include cough, sneezing, nasal discharge, headache, hoarseness, and nose
and throat pain.
Prolonged or repeated exposure may cause:
Lung Effects: Signs/symptoms may include difficulty breathing, cough, wheezing, weakness, increased heart rate, bluish
colored skin (cyanosis), sputum production and changes in lung function tests.
Ingestion:
Gastrointestinal Irritation: Signs/symptoms may include abdominal pain, nausea, diarrhea and vomiting.
8.2 PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE)
8.2.1 Eye/Face Protection
Avoid eye contact.
The following eye protection(s) are recommended: Safety Glasses with side shields.
3M MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET SCOTCHLITE BRAND GLASS BUBBLES, TYPES B, K, L, and S 11/27/2002
Page 4 of 8
8.2.2 Skin Protection
Select and use gloves and/or protective clothing to prevent skin contact based on the results of an exposure assessment. Consult with
your glove and/or protective clothing manufacturer for selection of appropriate compatible materials.
Gloves made from the following material(s) are recommended: Neoprene, Nitrile Rubber.
8.2.3 Respiratory Protection
Select one of the following NIOSH approved respirators based on airborne concentration of contaminants and in accordance with
OSHA regulations: Half facepiece or fullface air-purifying respirator with P95 particulate filters. Consult the current 3M Respiratory
Selection Guide for additional information or call 1-800-243-4630 for 3M technical assistance.
8.2.4 Prevention of Swallowing
Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product. Wash exposed areas thoroughly with soap and water.
This all sounds very dangerous , but if you looked at a similar data sheet for talc it would scare you sh1tless .
A couple of points on this ;
1/ Do you realise how small these are ? Less than 10 thousandths millimeter . Even if a carp swallows a pop-up and digests all the base mix the spheres will pass straight through as they are inert and too small to be ground up b the carps teeth.
2/The risks to humans using the spheres in bait manufacture are small , and neglidgable if you follow the manufacturers recommended safety precautions . Here is an extract from the 3M Scotchlite Glassbubbles safety data sheet which are the most commonly used type ;
Inhalation:
Upper Respiratory Tract Irritation: Signs/symptoms may include cough, sneezing, nasal discharge, headache, hoarseness, and nose
and throat pain.
Prolonged or repeated exposure may cause:
Lung Effects: Signs/symptoms may include difficulty breathing, cough, wheezing, weakness, increased heart rate, bluish
colored skin (cyanosis), sputum production and changes in lung function tests.
Ingestion:
Gastrointestinal Irritation: Signs/symptoms may include abdominal pain, nausea, diarrhea and vomiting.
8.2 PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE)
8.2.1 Eye/Face Protection
Avoid eye contact.
The following eye protection(s) are recommended: Safety Glasses with side shields.
3M MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET SCOTCHLITE BRAND GLASS BUBBLES, TYPES B, K, L, and S 11/27/2002
Page 4 of 8
8.2.2 Skin Protection
Select and use gloves and/or protective clothing to prevent skin contact based on the results of an exposure assessment. Consult with
your glove and/or protective clothing manufacturer for selection of appropriate compatible materials.
Gloves made from the following material(s) are recommended: Neoprene, Nitrile Rubber.
8.2.3 Respiratory Protection
Select one of the following NIOSH approved respirators based on airborne concentration of contaminants and in accordance with
OSHA regulations: Half facepiece or fullface air-purifying respirator with P95 particulate filters. Consult the current 3M Respiratory
Selection Guide for additional information or call 1-800-243-4630 for 3M technical assistance.
8.2.4 Prevention of Swallowing
Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product. Wash exposed areas thoroughly with soap and water.
This all sounds very dangerous , but if you looked at a similar data sheet for talc it would scare you sh1tless .
In reply to Post #1
good warning post
good warning post
In reply to Post #1
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00xMx_1M8tUPv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS--
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00xMx_1M8tUPv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS--
In reply to Post #3
silverfish great link which backs up what i am saying. I am reading more and more "how do i make pop ups" replied with "just add 20% glass spheres..."
Be warned. And I ask the Mods again, this really should be a sticky - plenty of stickies about fish safety, this one is even more important, its anglers' safety.
For those that dont read silverfish's link,its the health and safety data sheet from the manufacturer 3M and it recomends proper goggles and PROPER facemask, not just a thin dust mask like you would wear decorating or something.
Be safe guys!
Matt
silverfish great link which backs up what i am saying. I am reading more and more "how do i make pop ups" replied with "just add 20% glass spheres..."
Be warned. And I ask the Mods again, this really should be a sticky - plenty of stickies about fish safety, this one is even more important, its anglers' safety.
For those that dont read silverfish's link,its the health and safety data sheet from the manufacturer 3M and it recomends proper goggles and PROPER facemask, not just a thin dust mask like you would wear decorating or something.
Be safe guys!
Matt
In reply to Post #4
Learn something everyday.....didnt know that ...good info..
Learn something everyday.....didnt know that ...good info..
In reply to Post #5
are glass spheres any good for fish ?
I cant say id ever do this to bait
are glass spheres any good for fish ?
I cant say id ever do this to bait
In reply to Post #6
you might say you would never do it to bait....bet a lot of people think that, and don't realise that half the pop ups they've got are glass!!!
The effect on the fish is secondary in my opinion, how many pop ups get ingested by carp - not many!
Spread the word to anyone you know that's even thinking about making their own.
cheers
Matt
you might say you would never do it to bait....bet a lot of people think that, and don't realise that half the pop ups they've got are glass!!!
The effect on the fish is secondary in my opinion, how many pop ups get ingested by carp - not many!
Spread the word to anyone you know that's even thinking about making their own.
cheers
Matt
In reply to Post #8
Agreed Keith IF, and thats a very big IF, you do follow the precautions, which is my point exactly.
Matt
Agreed Keith IF, and thats a very big IF, you do follow the precautions, which is my point exactly.
Matt
are these spheres solid glass? or hollow?? 
how do they make bait so buoyant??
i've never used, nor am i likely to seeing as i hate bait making! these nor have any idea what they look like.
how do they make bait so buoyant??
i've never used, nor am i likely to seeing as i hate bait making! these nor have any idea what they look like.
In reply to Post #10
Hollow as in 'glass bubbles'.
what do they look like...........in the bag.......a very fine light powder, out of the bag........a very fine powder that slowly drops to ground level and floats around if disturbed. A bit like powder snow or wading around in polystyrene balls.
Buoyancy........think of an airball pop-up as being 20% micro encapsulated air
Hollow as in 'glass bubbles'.
what do they look like...........in the bag.......a very fine light powder, out of the bag........a very fine powder that slowly drops to ground level and floats around if disturbed. A bit like powder snow or wading around in polystyrene balls.
Buoyancy........think of an airball pop-up as being 20% micro encapsulated air
In reply to Post #11
Based on the evidence thus far, i have put the 2 main posts at the top of the thread.If this all turns out to be factual it can be made a sticky .
Can we please have our resident bait makers input on this please
.
Based on the evidence thus far, i have put the 2 main posts at the top of the thread.If this all turns out to be factual it can be made a sticky
.Can we please have our resident bait makers input on this please
.
In reply to Post #10
Volume of a sphere
Circumscribed cylinder to a sphere.
In 3 dimensions, the volume inside a sphere (that is, the volume of a ball) is given by the formula
\!V = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3
where r is the radius of the sphere and π is the constant pi. This formula was first derived by Archimedes, who showed that the volume of a sphere is 2/3 that of a circumscribed cylinder. (This assertion follows from Cavalieri's principle.) In modern mathematics, this formula can be derived using integral calculus, e.g. disk integration to sum the volumes of an infinite number of circular disks of infinitesimal thickness stacked centered side by side along the x axis from x = 0 where the disk has radius r (i.e. y = r) to x = r where the disk has radius 0 (i.e. y = 0).
At any given x, the incremental volume (δV) is given by the product of the cross-sectional area of the disk at x and its thickness (δx):
\!\delta V \approx \pi y^2 \cdot \delta x.
The total volume is the summation of all incremental volumes:
\!V \approx \sum \pi y^2 \cdot \delta x.
In the limit as δx approaches zero[1] this becomes:
\!V = \int_{-r}^{r} \pi y^2 dx.
At any given x, a right-angled triangle connects x, y and r to the origin, hence it follows from Pythagorean theorem that:
\!r^2 = x^2 + y^2.
Thus, substituting y with a function of x gives:
\!V = \int_{-r}^{r} \pi (r^2 - x^2)dx.
This can now be evaluated:
\!V = \pi \left[r^2x - \frac{x^3}{3} \right]_{-r}^{r} = \pi \left(r^3 - \frac{r^3}{3} \right) - \pi \left(-r^3 + \frac{r^3}{3} \right) = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3.
Therefore the volume of a sphere is:
\!V = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3.
Alternatively this formula is found using spherical coordinates, with volume element
\mathrm{d}V=r^2\sin\theta\,\mathrm{d}r\,\mathrm{d}\theta\,\mathrm{d}\varphi
In higher dimensions, the sphere (or hypersphere) is usually called an n-ball. General recursive formulas exist for deriving the volume of an n-ball.
For most practical uses, the volume of a sphere can be approximated as 52.4% of the volume of an inscribing cube, since \pi/6 \approx 0.5236. For example, since a cube with edge length 1 m has a volume of 1 m3
, a sphere with diameter 1 m has a volume of about 0.524 m3
.
Thought you knew all that Brian.
Volume of a sphere
Circumscribed cylinder to a sphere.
In 3 dimensions, the volume inside a sphere (that is, the volume of a ball) is given by the formula
\!V = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3
where r is the radius of the sphere and π is the constant pi. This formula was first derived by Archimedes, who showed that the volume of a sphere is 2/3 that of a circumscribed cylinder. (This assertion follows from Cavalieri's principle.) In modern mathematics, this formula can be derived using integral calculus, e.g. disk integration to sum the volumes of an infinite number of circular disks of infinitesimal thickness stacked centered side by side along the x axis from x = 0 where the disk has radius r (i.e. y = r) to x = r where the disk has radius 0 (i.e. y = 0).
At any given x, the incremental volume (δV) is given by the product of the cross-sectional area of the disk at x and its thickness (δx):
\!\delta V \approx \pi y^2 \cdot \delta x.
The total volume is the summation of all incremental volumes:
\!V \approx \sum \pi y^2 \cdot \delta x.
In the limit as δx approaches zero[1] this becomes:
\!V = \int_{-r}^{r} \pi y^2 dx.
At any given x, a right-angled triangle connects x, y and r to the origin, hence it follows from Pythagorean theorem that:
\!r^2 = x^2 + y^2.
Thus, substituting y with a function of x gives:
\!V = \int_{-r}^{r} \pi (r^2 - x^2)dx.
This can now be evaluated:
\!V = \pi \left[r^2x - \frac{x^3}{3} \right]_{-r}^{r} = \pi \left(r^3 - \frac{r^3}{3} \right) - \pi \left(-r^3 + \frac{r^3}{3} \right) = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3.
Therefore the volume of a sphere is:
\!V = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3.
Alternatively this formula is found using spherical coordinates, with volume element
\mathrm{d}V=r^2\sin\theta\,\mathrm{d}r\,\mathrm{d}\theta\,\mathrm{d}\varphi
In higher dimensions, the sphere (or hypersphere) is usually called an n-ball. General recursive formulas exist for deriving the volume of an n-ball.
For most practical uses, the volume of a sphere can be approximated as 52.4% of the volume of an inscribing cube, since \pi/6 \approx 0.5236. For example, since a cube with edge length 1 m has a volume of 1 m3
, a sphere with diameter 1 m has a volume of about 0.524 m3
.
Thought you knew all that Brian.
In reply to Post #13
Thought you knew all that Brian.
yes pete. i did.
but i didn't know whether glass bubbles were solid or hollow.
now i do know that, & i know where the bubbles in glass come from.
they put them in there!!
Thought you knew all that Brian.
yes pete. i did.
but i didn't know whether glass bubbles were solid or hollow.
now i do know that, & i know where the bubbles in glass come from.
they put them in there!!
Ive worked with this stuff for years in resin systems etc and its really not nice. Deffo need a good mask and good ventilation.