Short interesting read about the use of lead in shooting, it does mention fishing in some stats which got me thinking about the lead we are encouraged to litter into our lakes. I wonder if hardcore environmentalists even know about the tonnes of lead littering lake beds from fishing.
Link to the Guardian
Link to the Guardian
In reply to Post #1
Used to do a bit of wildfowl shooting when the lead ban was brought in here and it was banned on clay shoots but the reality is we have far bigger threats from factories, farming, sewage treatment and when these go to court they receive petty fines.
Used to do a bit of wildfowl shooting when the lead ban was brought in here and it was banned on clay shoots but the reality is we have far bigger threats from factories, farming, sewage treatment and when these go to court they receive petty fines.
In reply to Post #1
I've had the feeling for some time now that this is bubbling under the surface and could well gain momentum over the next 2-3 years. This is the feeling I get in mainland Europe.
I hope I'm wrong.
I've had the feeling for some time now that this is bubbling under the surface and could well gain momentum over the next 2-3 years. This is the feeling I get in mainland Europe.
I hope I'm wrong.
In reply to Post #1
I think we will still be OK, the birds will struggle to eat a 3oz pear
Obviously all the real experts will tell you lead is perfectly safe £
I think we will still be OK, the birds will struggle to eat a 3oz pear
Obviously all the real experts will tell you lead is perfectly safe £
In reply to Post #2
I agree, massive reform is needed in all the areas you have listed. This lead issue seems to, on the face of it, be a simpler fix.
I agree, massive reform is needed in all the areas you have listed. This lead issue seems to, on the face of it, be a simpler fix.
In reply to Post #2
Not many clay shoots ban lead shot at the moment.
Not many clay shoots ban lead shot at the moment.
In reply to Post #6
Or even game shoots as far as i believe, the only difference is they started phasing out plastic wads for fibre which are biodegradable.
Or even game shoots as far as i believe, the only difference is they started phasing out plastic wads for fibre which are biodegradable.
In reply to Post #1
I would think it's highly unlikely they know about the “ tonnes of lead littering lake beds” yet.
If they did you can expect articles asking why we have been removing / banning lead in pipes, or paint etc when fishermen are still polluting our watercourses with lead.
However I'm sure it will come.
I used to do a lot of shooting and the amount of plas wads left on the ground after a big clay shoot was shocking. We often used to rake / pickup the heavy concentrations but as said fibre wads are really the way to go. We used to believe they weren't quite as good for clay shooting though.
Also I'm fairly certain that lead free shot is a little less dense but harder so not quite so good as lead.
I've lost touch with the shooting scene but I'm interested what is being used now if anyone would care to share that info.
I would think it's highly unlikely they know about the “ tonnes of lead littering lake beds” yet.
If they did you can expect articles asking why we have been removing / banning lead in pipes, or paint etc when fishermen are still polluting our watercourses with lead.
However I'm sure it will come.
I used to do a lot of shooting and the amount of plas wads left on the ground after a big clay shoot was shocking. We often used to rake / pickup the heavy concentrations but as said fibre wads are really the way to go. We used to believe they weren't quite as good for clay shooting though.
Also I'm fairly certain that lead free shot is a little less dense but harder so not quite so good as lead.
I've lost touch with the shooting scene but I'm interested what is being used now if anyone would care to share that info.
In reply to Post #8
Bismuth, tungsten and steel shot are the main alternatives to lead shot, apart from steel shot bismuth and tungsten are more expensive alternatives , bismuth is pretty close to lead in performance but expensive in comparison, tungsten is also costly some say it can wreak havoc on the chokes as does steel shot with it being very dense metal, a lot recommend not using it in high grade guns with tight chokes especially steel shot it can bulge a tight choke as it does not soften with it being more dense.
Lots more to it like guns that can fire high grade steel shot will be proofed with a Fleur de leys tested to superior proof pressures, that's about the size of it.
Bismuth, tungsten and steel shot are the main alternatives to lead shot, apart from steel shot bismuth and tungsten are more expensive alternatives , bismuth is pretty close to lead in performance but expensive in comparison, tungsten is also costly some say it can wreak havoc on the chokes as does steel shot with it being very dense metal, a lot recommend not using it in high grade guns with tight chokes especially steel shot it can bulge a tight choke as it does not soften with it being more dense.
Lots more to it like guns that can fire high grade steel shot will be proofed with a Fleur de leys tested to superior proof pressures, that's about the size of it.
In reply to Post #9
Thanks for that Ian.
I knew about the bismuth and didn't like the idea of steel shot but perhaps Tungsten started being used after I gave up.
I did some searching for tungsten shot cartridges and at £2699 / 1000 they do seem quite expensive. Especially when at one stage we were paying about £80/ 1000 for Winchester AA. (We used to order several 1000 at a time and pick them up the same day they came in so the gun shop gave us a good deal but time and prices move on obviously)
Thanks for that Ian.
I knew about the bismuth and didn't like the idea of steel shot but perhaps Tungsten started being used after I gave up.
I did some searching for tungsten shot cartridges and at £2699 / 1000 they do seem quite expensive. Especially when at one stage we were paying about £80/ 1000 for Winchester AA. (We used to order several 1000 at a time and pick them up the same day they came in so the gun shop gave us a good deal but time and prices move on obviously)
In reply to Post #9
Good response👍
It's been proved that lead shot being reasonably soft does not ricochet of trees etc,but steel shot being hard is a different subject altogether,I've seen a couple of nice English side by sides completely ruined and barrels scraped😖
Good response👍
It's been proved that lead shot being reasonably soft does not ricochet of trees etc,but steel shot being hard is a different subject altogether,I've seen a couple of nice English side by sides completely ruined and barrels scraped😖
I shot at a lead free clay ground and the guy there was telling me that a lot of their skeet shooting members now shoot steel even when at grounds they can use lead. Their reasoning was the lighter steel shot cartridges had a higher shot count when compared with the same gram load of lead cartridge. This they said gave them a fuller pattern.
On the other hand I have also heard that it can take more steel shot to break a clay as they can punch cleanly straight through, where as lead deforms more and is more likely to smash the clay.
Can't say I noticed much difference myself really seemed to break the clays all the same, but as others have said you need to be careful what guns steel is used in.
On the other hand I have also heard that it can take more steel shot to break a clay as they can punch cleanly straight through, where as lead deforms more and is more likely to smash the clay.
Can't say I noticed much difference myself really seemed to break the clays all the same, but as others have said you need to be careful what guns steel is used in.
In reply to Post #12
Unfortunately all shooting will go down the none toxic route and steel,copper,bismuth, just dosent have the shock/knock down power like lead does, (steel is getting better now but more expensive than ever before) although tts shot seems to be the new in thing killing cleaning it's just to expensive to load large amounts of it.
Same as bullets I am having to use copper bullets now for shooting deer as they all go back into the food chain although they do kill they make a hell of a mess of the carcass but don't have the same knock down ability as lead meaning they run before expiring.
I'm sure the lead weight situation was talked about on Fairbrass podcast and off the top of my head the plastic coating on the lead took more than a lifetime to perish.
Unfortunately all shooting will go down the none toxic route and steel,copper,bismuth, just dosent have the shock/knock down power like lead does, (steel is getting better now but more expensive than ever before) although tts shot seems to be the new in thing killing cleaning it's just to expensive to load large amounts of it.
Same as bullets I am having to use copper bullets now for shooting deer as they all go back into the food chain although they do kill they make a hell of a mess of the carcass but don't have the same knock down ability as lead meaning they run before expiring.
I'm sure the lead weight situation was talked about on Fairbrass podcast and off the top of my head the plastic coating on the lead took more than a lifetime to perish.
In reply to Post #1
Lead shot in fishing was banned because swans and some other waterfowl were ingesting it along with small stones.
They use the small stones in their gullet to help break down their food.
The lead was poisoning them because it was stored for so long inside them.
Lead weights of 1oz or more were deemed safe as they were bigger than the small stones stored in the swans gullet and were rejected as too big.
Lead in the general environment is a pretty inert substance and is no real concern in low quantities.
I'm pretty sure that the UK are the only country that has banned lead shots in fishing.
I know that they are still on sale in France, as I have seen them myself.
Lead shot in fishing was banned because swans and some other waterfowl were ingesting it along with small stones.
They use the small stones in their gullet to help break down their food.
The lead was poisoning them because it was stored for so long inside them.
Lead weights of 1oz or more were deemed safe as they were bigger than the small stones stored in the swans gullet and were rejected as too big.
Lead in the general environment is a pretty inert substance and is no real concern in low quantities.
I'm pretty sure that the UK are the only country that has banned lead shots in fishing.
I know that they are still on sale in France, as I have seen them myself.
In reply to Post #14
Indeed, I was aware of everything you have mentioned. I was just wondering what the future holds. Like someone has previously mentioned, there is more pressing water quality issues.
I would like to see less lead of any size being dropped in the lake, along with the plastic that covers them. Although I am slightly hypocritical, as I use lead weights myself, but not setup to drop.
I think the UK are still consulting on banning lead shot in cartridges, but clay shooting isn't my discipline, so not up to scratch.
Indeed, I was aware of everything you have mentioned. I was just wondering what the future holds. Like someone has previously mentioned, there is more pressing water quality issues.
I would like to see less lead of any size being dropped in the lake, along with the plastic that covers them. Although I am slightly hypocritical, as I use lead weights myself, but not setup to drop.
I think the UK are still consulting on banning lead shot in cartridges, but clay shooting isn't my discipline, so not up to scratch.