In reply to Post #104
He could have.
Or maybe he couldn't.
The island was too far.
Or maybe he could but it took a few casts and he struggled to get one accurate so left it a bit off the spot and didn't catch.
Or maybe he was determined but inaccurate and took 6 casts to get it spot on, made a disturbance and the fish were off for the day.
Maybe his rig tangled on the cast and he didn't notice despite him getting the cast spot on first time.
I don't think the distance sticks cheat those skills and behaviour choice factors away.
Not against bait baits BTW. Just sharing thoughts.
This chat reminds me of ebikes in mountain biking. 6 years ago you were virtually spat on and abused if you ebiked past "analogue" bikes on a climb.
Nowadays 90% of people are on ebikes on the trails.
I can see that Bait Boats can catch more fish. It'll be a shame if people have to get one in time in order to keep catching.
He could have.
Or maybe he couldn't.
The island was too far.
Or maybe he could but it took a few casts and he struggled to get one accurate so left it a bit off the spot and didn't catch.
Or maybe he was determined but inaccurate and took 6 casts to get it spot on, made a disturbance and the fish were off for the day.
Maybe his rig tangled on the cast and he didn't notice despite him getting the cast spot on first time.
I don't think the distance sticks cheat those skills and behaviour choice factors away.
Not against bait baits BTW. Just sharing thoughts.
This chat reminds me of ebikes in mountain biking. 6 years ago you were virtually spat on and abused if you ebiked past "analogue" bikes on a climb.
Nowadays 90% of people are on ebikes on the trails.
I can see that Bait Boats can catch more fish. It'll be a shame if people have to get one in time in order to keep catching.
In reply to Post #105
Was the bite indication on advanced wireless technology?
Are receivers cheating?
Not trying to be pedantic (honestly!) just pointing out that there's levels of help with all elements of fishing.
Some say the remote control boat is too much. That's absolutely fine by me, everyone can have their thoughts/opinions but at the end of the day that's exactly what they are, personal opinions.
If a BB user is breaking rules or being thoughtless/selfish in their use of the BB then by all means give them both barrels ‘Yates style'
I just asked CoPilot (out of curiosity) and it gave a fairly bland answer
“ Ultimately, whether it's "cheating" depends on personal philosophy. Some might say it's just embracing modern technology to improve your chances, while others might prefer the traditional approach for the sake of the sport's heritage.”
Was the bite indication on advanced wireless technology?
Are receivers cheating?
Not trying to be pedantic (honestly!) just pointing out that there's levels of help with all elements of fishing.
Some say the remote control boat is too much. That's absolutely fine by me, everyone can have their thoughts/opinions but at the end of the day that's exactly what they are, personal opinions.
If a BB user is breaking rules or being thoughtless/selfish in their use of the BB then by all means give them both barrels ‘Yates style'
I just asked CoPilot (out of curiosity) and it gave a fairly bland answer
“ Ultimately, whether it's "cheating" depends on personal philosophy. Some might say it's just embracing modern technology to improve your chances, while others might prefer the traditional approach for the sake of the sport's heritage.”
In reply to Post #107
I did ask previously about deepers and if its seen the same but nobody replied. Same goes for rowing boats with sonars. Surely thats cheating or is it because you know how to use a paddle its fine?
Lets go further what about technology to look at the weather to know if its low pressure etc so you know what tactics to use. Technology is a part of life. If its allowed then how is it cheating
I did ask previously about deepers and if its seen the same but nobody replied. Same goes for rowing boats with sonars. Surely thats cheating or is it because you know how to use a paddle its fine?
Lets go further what about technology to look at the weather to know if its low pressure etc so you know what tactics to use. Technology is a part of life. If its allowed then how is it cheating
In reply to Post #107
I just asked CoPilot (out of curiosity) and it gave a fairly bland answer
Never heard of that, just googled it, I make it not far off, 2nd one for me
Edit - ask it why do carp anglers use bait boats
I just asked CoPilot (out of curiosity) and it gave a fairly bland answer
Never heard of that, just googled it, I make it not far off, 2nd one for me
Edit - ask it why do carp anglers use bait boats
In reply to Post #107
I think CoPilot has nailed it!
I think CoPilot has nailed it!
As a complete novice you can go on line and buy a complete Argos type set up.
Buy a bag of boilies.
Watch a few U tubes.
Book on an overstocked puddle.
Catch a carp.
It's full of merit apparently.
Buy a bag of boilies.
Watch a few U tubes.
Book on an overstocked puddle.
Catch a carp.
It's full of merit apparently.
In reply to Post #107
I knew that would be mentioned and is the reason I deliberately mentioned 'placing the bait'
I knew that would be mentioned and is the reason I deliberately mentioned 'placing the bait'
In reply to Post #112
but bait placement is only part of the puzzle that is fishing. Focusing on one element doesn't answer the question that relates to a.n.other element of the sport.
Different people will draw the line at different points in different areas.
Bite indication: I would imagine 99% of people are happy to use buzzers (and wireless receivers)
Magic twig: Probably 95%+ DON'T like this 'advancement' and feel it's not necessary.
Bait boats: I think Andy's eBike example is good, but I would imagine a lot of that 'anti attitude' WAS finance driven. eBikes, from the little research I have done, are even more expensive than a typical bait boat (I read today that LIDL are selling a Crivit branded bike in France for €1700 - and that's cheap)
but bait placement is only part of the puzzle that is fishing. Focusing on one element doesn't answer the question that relates to a.n.other element of the sport.Different people will draw the line at different points in different areas.
Bite indication: I would imagine 99% of people are happy to use buzzers (and wireless receivers)
Magic twig: Probably 95%+ DON'T like this 'advancement' and feel it's not necessary.
Bait boats: I think Andy's eBike example is good, but I would imagine a lot of that 'anti attitude' WAS finance driven. eBikes, from the little research I have done, are even more expensive than a typical bait boat (I read today that LIDL are selling a Crivit branded bike in France for €1700 - and that's cheap)
In reply to Post #113
It may be only one element but lets deal with bait boats at the moment or the thread will go haywire.
The thread is about bait boats being the norm. I think we've established that they are still not allowed on many venues, so we can't say overall they are the norm.
So the question becomes where they are allowed are they the norm, and its quite possible on those venues it is the norm.
Whether GPS and sonar are the norm on bait boats I don't know, my guess is that they are popular but not the norm yet.
As for bite alarms they are not used for bait placement and so don't short cut years of angling skills. I suppose some clever sod will come along and argue against that but that can discussed on another thread. As I say otherwise the thread will go haywire with everyone arguing over boats, gps, sonar, poles, drones, other bait placement methods and whether they are the norm.
It may be only one element but lets deal with bait boats at the moment or the thread will go haywire.
The thread is about bait boats being the norm. I think we've established that they are still not allowed on many venues, so we can't say overall they are the norm.
So the question becomes where they are allowed are they the norm, and its quite possible on those venues it is the norm.
Whether GPS and sonar are the norm on bait boats I don't know, my guess is that they are popular but not the norm yet.
As for bite alarms they are not used for bait placement and so don't short cut years of angling skills. I suppose some clever sod will come along and argue against that but that can discussed on another thread. As I say otherwise the thread will go haywire with everyone arguing over boats, gps, sonar, poles, drones, other bait placement methods and whether they are the norm.
In reply to Post #113
E-bikes are cheating
I ride a MB as part of my fitness regime, defeats the object, but for anybody disabled etc I can see the benefit. I was educated the other week though, for example, when you are in the middle of nowhere and knackered they can save the day but ultimately you can go a lot further on them too
And the bite alarm one I don't get, we rely on the fish to hook itself via our set ups, that just beeps to tell you line is being pulled off your spool. I used to have a couple of old Daiwa JX reels, didn't need an alarm with those, the spools just clicked loudly
E-bikes are cheating
I ride a MB as part of my fitness regime, defeats the object, but for anybody disabled etc I can see the benefit. I was educated the other week though, for example, when you are in the middle of nowhere and knackered they can save the day but ultimately you can go a lot further on them too
And the bite alarm one I don't get, we rely on the fish to hook itself via our set ups, that just beeps to tell you line is being pulled off your spool. I used to have a couple of old Daiwa JX reels, didn't need an alarm with those, the spools just clicked loudly
In reply to Post #115
Technology always dilutes things that have a cultural, creative or manual aspect to them. Yes, 99 times out of 100 it makes things easier, sometimes more enjoyable, but it also lowers the bar; meaning less commitment, less ability, less “whatever” in order for someone to make a success of it. Good or bad? That's the question.
An analogy - having been a DJ for 30 years I have used every possible medium available; turntables and vinyl, CD's + CDJ's, and digital via laptop only.
The one thing that is definitely true is that as the technology has got better, the commitment, the ability, the "whatever" has been continually reduced as a critical factor in participation. I have now come to the disappointing yet inevitable realisation that one day, there will be practically nobody left "doing it the old way" (with records and turntables etc) apart from a few stubborn old stalwarts who everyone will laugh at and call a luddite.
With DJ'ing, there is no technical skill needed any longer (such as keeping a couple of records playing in time for 5 minutes), as such, the door has opened to an untold number of people who otherwise probably couldn't be bothered to learn it otherwise.
Then there's the taste in music; when you spend years and years honing your craft, spending inordinate amounts of time in record shops, clubs and spending all your student loan on it, you might develop an astute or esoteric taste in music; be adaptable, basically - and maybe you could be a good DJ. With the continued march forwards with tech, none of this is needed anymore. You can go online and buy the entire playlist of "insert *top* DJ name here", downloaded it all and be playing it on your console in 10 minutes. That's making lots of money for lots of people and so it's entirely in the interests of business to continue to make stuff more accessible to the masses. It is also 100% true that what used to be a pretty expensive game (and still can be) can now be done to a decent standard for pittance.
It's all exactly the same with bait boats in my view. Since I am doing my own thing and more than happy with both my angling (
) and musical worlds then everyone can just crack on.
If anyone wants to hear any music, drop me a message.
Technology always dilutes things that have a cultural, creative or manual aspect to them. Yes, 99 times out of 100 it makes things easier, sometimes more enjoyable, but it also lowers the bar; meaning less commitment, less ability, less “whatever” in order for someone to make a success of it. Good or bad? That's the question.
An analogy - having been a DJ for 30 years I have used every possible medium available; turntables and vinyl, CD's + CDJ's, and digital via laptop only.
The one thing that is definitely true is that as the technology has got better, the commitment, the ability, the "whatever" has been continually reduced as a critical factor in participation. I have now come to the disappointing yet inevitable realisation that one day, there will be practically nobody left "doing it the old way" (with records and turntables etc) apart from a few stubborn old stalwarts who everyone will laugh at and call a luddite.
With DJ'ing, there is no technical skill needed any longer (such as keeping a couple of records playing in time for 5 minutes), as such, the door has opened to an untold number of people who otherwise probably couldn't be bothered to learn it otherwise.
Then there's the taste in music; when you spend years and years honing your craft, spending inordinate amounts of time in record shops, clubs and spending all your student loan on it, you might develop an astute or esoteric taste in music; be adaptable, basically - and maybe you could be a good DJ. With the continued march forwards with tech, none of this is needed anymore. You can go online and buy the entire playlist of "insert *top* DJ name here", downloaded it all and be playing it on your console in 10 minutes. That's making lots of money for lots of people and so it's entirely in the interests of business to continue to make stuff more accessible to the masses. It is also 100% true that what used to be a pretty expensive game (and still can be) can now be done to a decent standard for pittance.
It's all exactly the same with bait boats in my view. Since I am doing my own thing and more than happy with both my angling (
) and musical worlds then everyone can just crack on.If anyone wants to hear any music, drop me a message.
In reply to Post #116
Good analogy
I went to a northern soul night the other week, proper vinal and 3 different DJs, bit different to the PC with plug and play!
I suppose its the same as a carp angler and "skill" true ability is substituted by electronic aids, cant bait a spot accurately at 120 yds and get a bait over the top, use a bait boat, cant feature find, use a sonar to find bars and plateaus, cant find clear spots in weed use a camera on your bait boat, all eroding at the anglers true capability, ability and watercraft skills because without them, they couldn't do it
BUT... the only thing you see is a picture, which in a lot of cases tells a thousand lies and not genuine words
Good analogy
I went to a northern soul night the other week, proper vinal and 3 different DJs, bit different to the PC with plug and play!
I suppose its the same as a carp angler and "skill" true ability is substituted by electronic aids, cant bait a spot accurately at 120 yds and get a bait over the top, use a bait boat, cant feature find, use a sonar to find bars and plateaus, cant find clear spots in weed use a camera on your bait boat, all eroding at the anglers true capability, ability and watercraft skills because without them, they couldn't do it
BUT... the only thing you see is a picture, which in a lot of cases tells a thousand lies and not genuine words
On the subject of boats (with oars), I don't think it's a great comparison vs bait boats to be honest. The lakes I fish have boats, but only one of them are we permitted to use them. I am not aware of any day ticket lakes where their use is permitted. Can you imagine? Somewhere like Linear
Bait boats everywhere though.
I think that using boats (with oars) to suss out spots, drop rigs, bait up etc, is being done by anglers who have already learned how to feel for a drop, spod at 100 yards +, fish in 50 foot of weed, handle fish correctly. These anglers have now "graduated" so to speak, and are now fishing the types of lakes that actually require use of a boat, and these types of venues are usually totally outside of the ability of the noddies who want 20 runs a day and to fish out of the back of the car (plus who any sensible fishery owner wouldn't in a million years want padding around his lake for a plethora of reasons).
Boats (with oars) and bait boats = not the same IMO.
Bait boats everywhere though.
I think that using boats (with oars) to suss out spots, drop rigs, bait up etc, is being done by anglers who have already learned how to feel for a drop, spod at 100 yards +, fish in 50 foot of weed, handle fish correctly. These anglers have now "graduated" so to speak, and are now fishing the types of lakes that actually require use of a boat, and these types of venues are usually totally outside of the ability of the noddies who want 20 runs a day and to fish out of the back of the car (plus who any sensible fishery owner wouldn't in a million years want padding around his lake for a plethora of reasons).
Boats (with oars) and bait boats = not the same IMO.
In reply to Post #116
I often go out on a Saturday to meet people and the venue has so called live music, which usually entails a singer singing along to an iphone. It just doesn't seem right when the singer picks up their phone in between songs and fiddles with it.
Last Saturday they had a proper group on for a change with guitar bass and drums.
Ok the singer in the group wasn't the best but it didn't matter, the band rocked and it was so much better than the usual tripe.
That by the way was my attempt at an analogy
I often go out on a Saturday to meet people and the venue has so called live music, which usually entails a singer singing along to an iphone. It just doesn't seem right when the singer picks up their phone in between songs and fiddles with it.
Last Saturday they had a proper group on for a change with guitar bass and drums.
Ok the singer in the group wasn't the best but it didn't matter, the band rocked and it was so much better than the usual tripe.
That by the way was my attempt at an analogy
In reply to Post #118
I did type out a post yesterday reflecting this exact scenario but in the end didn't post it in case it came across as being a bit up my own arse
Some of the lakes I've fished, and still fish, are large wild gravel pits or overgrown meres where just getting to the water is a considerable challenge. On these large expanses of water there is the physical challenge of actually getting a rod in the water before you even start fishing. If it's windy or raining (usually both at once) you get a real battering. Forget ripples on the water, you are talking large waves.
I enjoy the challenges of these waters and it does take a lot of effort, stubborness and a certain amount of drive. Blanks are common and when you do catch it's a fantastic feeling of achievement against the odds. The use of both rowing boat and bait boat help overcome these problems but it's not a level playing field and the fish certainly hold the majority of the cards. They are just tools in the overall picture. Neither on their own catch fish.
This is why I'm comfortable with their use.
I did type out a post yesterday reflecting this exact scenario but in the end didn't post it in case it came across as being a bit up my own arse
Some of the lakes I've fished, and still fish, are large wild gravel pits or overgrown meres where just getting to the water is a considerable challenge. On these large expanses of water there is the physical challenge of actually getting a rod in the water before you even start fishing. If it's windy or raining (usually both at once) you get a real battering. Forget ripples on the water, you are talking large waves.
I enjoy the challenges of these waters and it does take a lot of effort, stubborness and a certain amount of drive. Blanks are common and when you do catch it's a fantastic feeling of achievement against the odds. The use of both rowing boat and bait boat help overcome these problems but it's not a level playing field and the fish certainly hold the majority of the cards. They are just tools in the overall picture. Neither on their own catch fish.
This is why I'm comfortable with their use.