In reply to Post #18
Maple-8, now that was a good bait!
Maple-8, now that was a good bait!
In reply to Post #22
"Seems like someone may have an axe to grind.
The Opal mix, the 8 baits, The Grange?! You must have a pretty short memory"
Not at all. No personal vendetta or beef. I used both Grange and Active 8 and did so for around 8 years. Then I jumped on the Cell bandwagon until the early 2010's when waters dictated which type of baits were effective.
What I'm saying is, I believe they have had their day. Since The Cell, the likes of Sticky, DNA and CC Moore have come on leaps and bounds and have overtaken Mainline if I looked at it from a media/popularity = results basis. Lets not deny that if it wasn't for magazines and DVD's in the late noughties and early 2010's, the Cell would not have got the traction it did. Then you've got the argument that it worked so well because it passed through the fish quicker than they could eat it for whatever reason.
The firms mentioned above all brought out baits which worked to massive effect and were market successes. Mainline on the other hand rolled out multiple baits that did not seem to be selling on the same scale, and so fell by the wayside. Back then, Nutrabaits had the likes of Trigga which kicked off massively, and we were also in the midst of Dynamite Baits having a massive impact with all the promotion surrounding stick mixes, jarred particles and the good 'ol meaty marine groundbait.
No axe to grind, just saying I believe it is. Why is the cell still on the market after all this time but assassin8/maple8 isn't? Grange has been out twice now and disappeared twice. It's fallen out of favour because people have moved on. This leads me to believe ultimately that if Mainline had never brought out the cell, they would have gone into obscurity.
Apart from The Link, what have mainline done the last ten years that has been an original idea that has A) Competed in the market, and B) Not been a reinvention of what they already had? "Essential" Cell. "New" Grange. "Hybrid" of Cell and Active 8, "Activ" Maple-8
All boils down to money, and to the level of exposure which the cell enjoyed on Sky Sports and in the Magazines during a time when the internet and free thinking and information was in its infancy in the late 2000's. As i've said previously, internet and free thinking also contributed to the death of magazines. Yes, the cost of printing on paper may have gone up, but surely the efficiency of technology would have negated those costs? I just think that free thinking and the increase in information allowed people the scope to use what they deemed THE best, rather than being given an impression of what THE best was by print media and DVD's who were being paid to say what THE best was.
"Seems like someone may have an axe to grind.
The Opal mix, the 8 baits, The Grange?! You must have a pretty short memory"
Not at all. No personal vendetta or beef. I used both Grange and Active 8 and did so for around 8 years. Then I jumped on the Cell bandwagon until the early 2010's when waters dictated which type of baits were effective.
What I'm saying is, I believe they have had their day. Since The Cell, the likes of Sticky, DNA and CC Moore have come on leaps and bounds and have overtaken Mainline if I looked at it from a media/popularity = results basis. Lets not deny that if it wasn't for magazines and DVD's in the late noughties and early 2010's, the Cell would not have got the traction it did. Then you've got the argument that it worked so well because it passed through the fish quicker than they could eat it for whatever reason.
The firms mentioned above all brought out baits which worked to massive effect and were market successes. Mainline on the other hand rolled out multiple baits that did not seem to be selling on the same scale, and so fell by the wayside. Back then, Nutrabaits had the likes of Trigga which kicked off massively, and we were also in the midst of Dynamite Baits having a massive impact with all the promotion surrounding stick mixes, jarred particles and the good 'ol meaty marine groundbait.
No axe to grind, just saying I believe it is. Why is the cell still on the market after all this time but assassin8/maple8 isn't? Grange has been out twice now and disappeared twice. It's fallen out of favour because people have moved on. This leads me to believe ultimately that if Mainline had never brought out the cell, they would have gone into obscurity.
Apart from The Link, what have mainline done the last ten years that has been an original idea that has A) Competed in the market, and B) Not been a reinvention of what they already had? "Essential" Cell. "New" Grange. "Hybrid" of Cell and Active 8, "Activ" Maple-8
All boils down to money, and to the level of exposure which the cell enjoyed on Sky Sports and in the Magazines during a time when the internet and free thinking and information was in its infancy in the late 2000's. As i've said previously, internet and free thinking also contributed to the death of magazines. Yes, the cost of printing on paper may have gone up, but surely the efficiency of technology would have negated those costs? I just think that free thinking and the increase in information allowed people the scope to use what they deemed THE best, rather than being given an impression of what THE best was by print media and DVD's who were being paid to say what THE best was.
In reply to Post #32
Free thinking in carpfishing regarding boilies? Increase of information? Lol every single company you mentioned is out there because of marketing... Nothing else... and Mainline was the best in it. It is not rocket science... Non of the companies sell magic... Only fish food... Not really hard to sell stuff to carp anglers... If you invest in marketing... We can all see what nonsense companies are coming up with... as if they would compete in who can get away with more stupid product with some extreme price...
Free thinking in carpfishing regarding boilies? Increase of information? Lol every single company you mentioned is out there because of marketing... Nothing else... and Mainline was the best in it. It is not rocket science... Non of the companies sell magic... Only fish food... Not really hard to sell stuff to carp anglers... If you invest in marketing... We can all see what nonsense companies are coming up with... as if they would compete in who can get away with more stupid product with some extreme price...
In reply to Post #32
Agree with all this, when mainline were at there best though there were still some very good alternatives, shellfish b5, cranberry red etc, the one that dominated my local waters GB's frankfurter.
Agree with all this, when mainline were at there best though there were still some very good alternatives, shellfish b5, cranberry red etc, the one that dominated my local waters GB's frankfurter.
In reply to Post #30
The biggest out there now is Sticky, triple the size of anyone I could mention. A lot of the big firms claim to roll x tonnes a week these boys do it.
You can't deny to the consumer, the black backed promo boards, decent branding and general quality of the bait is a huge pull. Nowadays sticky is far superior to all the other big boys in terms of quality and expense of ingredients.
Cell came out just as the nut bait craze resurfaced and none of the big boys were quick out the box to bring out a bait to compete. Coconut smells lovely to humans and mainline had expansive marketing to be able to make it almost seem like cell was the only nut bait around, despite the fat is hasn't now, nor ever has contained any nut. Fancy accessories and idolised consultants contributed massively to their success.
Nowadays there is a lot more anglers and a lot more day tickets, carp anglers aren't a subsection of the coarse fishing industry that roll has gone 180 so now there is far more bait being made that before.
Nash said at one point they've tripled production, however there share of the market has decreased massively.
It's possibly a logistics thing with the Korda mainline deal, I am only guessing but I'd say Korda is in almost 100% of shops where as mainline is in probably 80% , an obligation or better mark up for retailers won't be sniffed at.
Mainline definately aren't the dominant force they once were, as there releases don't gain traction, just look at link, a big standard low fishmeal content fishmeal with a bit of dye, that was there big play a couple of years ago and it's not been a stand out. Now it's square hookbaits and “smart” liquid ( lol ), remember those “limited edition” pop ups at the counters of tackle shops? Not restocked.....still there.
There is a big influx of companies coming to the market with whole ranges ready rolled by other bigger companies and a “completely new” brand has curiosity appeal.
Nowadays you almost have to add “human appeal” to tge criteria of a bait, whether that's pulling on nostalgia, or making a bait seem visually appealing or a snazzy name. It's a consumers market, we are literally spending hundreds on graphics designs for pots tge carp will never see because if it doesn't look right to the consumer it won't sell. Carp catching ability is extremely low on the list of requirements for the everyday shopper.
I guarantee you if you put a snazzy label on a 250ml bottle of mollases and sell it for tge same price an an unbranded 1l it will sell more.
You've got people buying 150ml glycerine based “hookbait enhancement systems” for twelve quid because it comes in a fancy bottle from a trusted brand.
What confuses me is the same people shun Sainsbury's in favour of Aldi or Lidl 😂
The biggest out there now is Sticky, triple the size of anyone I could mention. A lot of the big firms claim to roll x tonnes a week these boys do it.
You can't deny to the consumer, the black backed promo boards, decent branding and general quality of the bait is a huge pull. Nowadays sticky is far superior to all the other big boys in terms of quality and expense of ingredients.
Cell came out just as the nut bait craze resurfaced and none of the big boys were quick out the box to bring out a bait to compete. Coconut smells lovely to humans and mainline had expansive marketing to be able to make it almost seem like cell was the only nut bait around, despite the fat is hasn't now, nor ever has contained any nut. Fancy accessories and idolised consultants contributed massively to their success.
Nowadays there is a lot more anglers and a lot more day tickets, carp anglers aren't a subsection of the coarse fishing industry that roll has gone 180 so now there is far more bait being made that before.
Nash said at one point they've tripled production, however there share of the market has decreased massively.
It's possibly a logistics thing with the Korda mainline deal, I am only guessing but I'd say Korda is in almost 100% of shops where as mainline is in probably 80% , an obligation or better mark up for retailers won't be sniffed at.
Mainline definately aren't the dominant force they once were, as there releases don't gain traction, just look at link, a big standard low fishmeal content fishmeal with a bit of dye, that was there big play a couple of years ago and it's not been a stand out. Now it's square hookbaits and “smart” liquid ( lol ), remember those “limited edition” pop ups at the counters of tackle shops? Not restocked.....still there.
There is a big influx of companies coming to the market with whole ranges ready rolled by other bigger companies and a “completely new” brand has curiosity appeal.
Nowadays you almost have to add “human appeal” to tge criteria of a bait, whether that's pulling on nostalgia, or making a bait seem visually appealing or a snazzy name. It's a consumers market, we are literally spending hundreds on graphics designs for pots tge carp will never see because if it doesn't look right to the consumer it won't sell. Carp catching ability is extremely low on the list of requirements for the everyday shopper.
I guarantee you if you put a snazzy label on a 250ml bottle of mollases and sell it for tge same price an an unbranded 1l it will sell more.
You've got people buying 150ml glycerine based “hookbait enhancement systems” for twelve quid because it comes in a fancy bottle from a trusted brand.
What confuses me is the same people shun Sainsbury's in favour of Aldi or Lidl 😂
In reply to Post #35
A shop near me had a premium Mainline account so could get baits on next day delivery for customers.They had a huge display all set up and had everything Mainline did all on display,it just didn't sell very well at all.They said for every kg they sold of Mainline they sold easily 10kg of Sticky,i have done really well on Cell and Krill in the past and would be happy to use both again
A shop near me had a premium Mainline account so could get baits on next day delivery for customers.They had a huge display all set up and had everything Mainline did all on display,it just didn't sell very well at all.They said for every kg they sold of Mainline they sold easily 10kg of Sticky,i have done really well on Cell and Krill in the past and would be happy to use both again
In reply to Post #35
I would have thought Dynamite were right up there production size wise? Certainly bigger in Europe than Sticky.
I would have thought Dynamite were right up there production size wise? Certainly bigger in Europe than Sticky.
I would imagine ABS roll at least a few tonnes a week
I don't think Mainline have been helped by the cost of their baits, at what £12 a kilo, when you can get other baits from various sources at half that. The rise of the direct bait companies probably helped their apparent decline.
Mainline also had a multiple way distribution system to tackle shops.
Some shops were able to buy direct from Mainline at cost, yet others had to go through a middleman.
Mainline were big in the UK, but not necessarily abroad, apart from a small part of France. The European Market was originally 'dominated' by Nutrabaits who were big in this country as well, a North/South divide, although we know what happened to Nutrabaits.
I know Mainline have done some very good baits, and the use of The Essex Grange as the 'test pit', NRG, Grange CSL, Activ8, etc kept them high profile, but since Cell I would struggle to call a Mainline Bait dominant.
Mainline also had a multiple way distribution system to tackle shops.
Some shops were able to buy direct from Mainline at cost, yet others had to go through a middleman.
Mainline were big in the UK, but not necessarily abroad, apart from a small part of France. The European Market was originally 'dominated' by Nutrabaits who were big in this country as well, a North/South divide, although we know what happened to Nutrabaits.
I know Mainline have done some very good baits, and the use of The Essex Grange as the 'test pit', NRG, Grange CSL, Activ8, etc kept them high profile, but since Cell I would struggle to call a Mainline Bait dominant.
In reply to Post #36
A shop near me actually stopped selling mainline because it just didn't sell but was selling loads of sticky compared to mainline there was just no point in even selling it when taking in account how much it was costing them to have it.
Like yours sticky was out selling mainline massively, I've done well on the cell in the past but never done well on any of the hookbaits though and when speaking to a known company's owner (thread in the bait section) I was told how poor mainlines hook baits really are.
I have a few friends who carp fish 3 are on DNA, 2 are on scopex squid, 8 of us are on Sticky and 1 still uses complex T none of us have used anything mainline now for years, not saying that it's like this everywhere but does say a lot
A shop near me actually stopped selling mainline because it just didn't sell but was selling loads of sticky compared to mainline there was just no point in even selling it when taking in account how much it was costing them to have it.
Like yours sticky was out selling mainline massively, I've done well on the cell in the past but never done well on any of the hookbaits though and when speaking to a known company's owner (thread in the bait section) I was told how poor mainlines hook baits really are.
I have a few friends who carp fish 3 are on DNA, 2 are on scopex squid, 8 of us are on Sticky and 1 still uses complex T none of us have used anything mainline now for years, not saying that it's like this everywhere but does say a lot
In reply to Post #35
Mainlines online marketing has been / is terrible as well. They do a few youtube videos but they are really bad. They just missed the boat a bit with switch to online marketing.
Mainlines online marketing has been / is terrible as well. They do a few youtube videos but they are really bad. They just missed the boat a bit with switch to online marketing.
In reply to Post #41
One thing that probably hasn't helped with mainline is most of the videos or catch reports have prototype bait that never gets released or special bait made for one or two people, so people can never buy the bait that people see in things.
If Korda have brought mainline or is used as a distributor how long before we have gooed up pop ups being sold by them
One thing that probably hasn't helped with mainline is most of the videos or catch reports have prototype bait that never gets released or special bait made for one or two people, so people can never buy the bait that people see in things.
If Korda have brought mainline or is used as a distributor how long before we have gooed up pop ups being sold by them
Maybe Kev and Steve have enough money that they are happy keeping things ticking over and don't want the aggro of trying to be no.1 with all the work/social media that goes along with it..
If the original Grange ever made a comeback I can imagine around 50% of anglers who are using other brands would switch straight onto it. I know I blooming would!
Never really understood why Mainline got slagged off for being a **** bait manufacturer tbh.
Never really understood why Mainline got slagged off for being a **** bait manufacturer tbh.
In reply to Post #44
Never mind the Grange, Assassin 8 worked everywhere I took it – no pre-baiting required, it was instant action.
Never mind the Grange, Assassin 8 worked everywhere I took it – no pre-baiting required, it was instant action.