In reply to Post #30
Excellent post mate.
Excellent post mate.
In reply to Post #31
Cheers
I am in no way connected to Snugpak or any angling trade!!!
Cheers
I am in no way connected to Snugpak or any angling trade!!!
In reply to Post #30
I am really tempted to get one of these as my old Trakker big z has lost its loft and is more like a blanket than a sleeping bag. Just need to convince myself I need to spend that much on a sleeping bag.
I am really tempted to get one of these as my old Trakker big z has lost its loft and is more like a blanket than a sleeping bag. Just need to convince myself I need to spend that much on a sleeping bag.
In reply to Post #30
How many Nash, Aqua, Trakker etc (Chinese manufactured products) have had a high volume of returns??? 10 percent one Rep from one of these companies claimed all built into the price! How many times have products produced in the far east turned out to be recalled or just duff due to them having issues with the bell caps leaking or poles too long for the fabric at the front or poles snapping???
Not their fault....its just their badge on the product, they don't actually make it!!
But your talking about bivvies & brollies etc, that are subjected to an onslaught of abuse whether constant erecting or the elements they have to face .... im (and this thread) talking about the humble sleeping bag, that does little more than be a human envelope
.
Bivvies & brollies etc might be a different debate
Im aware Snugpak make good products (i have their jacket) but there are other brands that are as good and better that are made overseas. The "UK is best" blanket view just isn't a credible one. There have been UK built industries in the past that have folded because the quality was so bad or just couldnt keep up with overseas reliability.
You obviously have never bought a product with a problem, either that or you haven't kept it long enough for any faults to show in the first place.
The only sleeping bag that i had a problem with was the Gardner Sub Zero .... the crash zip was poor.
I think you will find the reason there is a premium price in this product and Uk products are the price for manufacturing in the UK are massive........Wages, rates, Insurances etc etc...I think you'll find most working people here in the UK would rather earn a fair wage while at work and not a sweat shop to keep the product costs down and also choose to spend their money here in the UK to put something back into the system??
This is a different debate completely and not one i necessarily disagree with.
How many Nash, Aqua, Trakker etc (Chinese manufactured products) have had a high volume of returns??? 10 percent one Rep from one of these companies claimed all built into the price! How many times have products produced in the far east turned out to be recalled or just duff due to them having issues with the bell caps leaking or poles too long for the fabric at the front or poles snapping???
Not their fault....its just their badge on the product, they don't actually make it!!
But your talking about bivvies & brollies etc, that are subjected to an onslaught of abuse whether constant erecting or the elements they have to face .... im (and this thread) talking about the humble sleeping bag, that does little more than be a human envelope
. Bivvies & brollies etc might be a different debate
Im aware Snugpak make good products (i have their jacket) but there are other brands that are as good and better that are made overseas. The "UK is best" blanket view just isn't a credible one. There have been UK built industries in the past that have folded because the quality was so bad or just couldnt keep up with overseas reliability.
You obviously have never bought a product with a problem, either that or you haven't kept it long enough for any faults to show in the first place.
The only sleeping bag that i had a problem with was the Gardner Sub Zero .... the crash zip was poor.
I think you will find the reason there is a premium price in this product and Uk products are the price for manufacturing in the UK are massive........Wages, rates, Insurances etc etc...I think you'll find most working people here in the UK would rather earn a fair wage while at work and not a sweat shop to keep the product costs down and also choose to spend their money here in the UK to put something back into the system??
This is a different debate completely and not one i necessarily disagree with.
In reply to Post #34
Mate in my opinion, there are only a handful of bags of the market which i would choose today, and nothing to do with origin etc!!!
Either fleece (personally hate fleece), too bulky (poor insulation material) or rubbish design/ mummy bag.
I tried Mummy bags and hated it, fleece bags and hated it, fox/ trakker so say reversible bags with no fleece? Only to be faced with a rubbish non cotton type material, and there massive!!!
Pertex like the Goliath or Sunridge heat control were by far the most comfortable bags I used. I could curl up in one of them in the sort of weather we are having now and feel like I was fishing in the great outdoors and it didn't matter how cold or wet it got I was warm and comfortable and "safe".
"Safe" means to me if it gets splashed or condensation on it, it will wick away, if I fell in I could strip off and jump in my bag etc etc...I'm not saying for one minute the other bags wont do this....but I would bet with the exclusion of a handful the Snugpak would perform better.
Skimp on a sleeping bag....not worth it, I like sleeping outdoors.......skimp on a bivvy?? no real difference in bivvies nower days, there all made equally as craply!!!just price!!!!!
Give me a UK, Irish or European divvy manufacture like the old Aqua.....then we would have a debate!
And, If you wanted an example of bad sleeping bag design what about Nash draft liner for the sleep system......the Carptech Goliath (which I know you bought into)
Personally I think the option of having a product like this again in this trade shows there is a market for it.
Incidentally in my original post I never mentioned the UK is best argument? only Snugpak
Mate in my opinion, there are only a handful of bags of the market which i would choose today, and nothing to do with origin etc!!!
Either fleece (personally hate fleece), too bulky (poor insulation material) or rubbish design/ mummy bag.
I tried Mummy bags and hated it, fleece bags and hated it, fox/ trakker so say reversible bags with no fleece? Only to be faced with a rubbish non cotton type material, and there massive!!!
Pertex like the Goliath or Sunridge heat control were by far the most comfortable bags I used. I could curl up in one of them in the sort of weather we are having now and feel like I was fishing in the great outdoors and it didn't matter how cold or wet it got I was warm and comfortable and "safe".
"Safe" means to me if it gets splashed or condensation on it, it will wick away, if I fell in I could strip off and jump in my bag etc etc...I'm not saying for one minute the other bags wont do this....but I would bet with the exclusion of a handful the Snugpak would perform better.
Skimp on a sleeping bag....not worth it, I like sleeping outdoors.......skimp on a bivvy?? no real difference in bivvies nower days, there all made equally as craply!!!just price!!!!!
Give me a UK, Irish or European divvy manufacture like the old Aqua.....then we would have a debate!
And, If you wanted an example of bad sleeping bag design what about Nash draft liner for the sleep system......the Carptech Goliath (which I know you bought into)
Personally I think the option of having a product like this again in this trade shows there is a market for it.
Incidentally in my original post I never mentioned the UK is best argument? only Snugpak
In reply to Post #35
Personally I think the option of having a product like this again in this trade shows there is a market for it.
Ive not said there isnt a market for it. Ive said it "looks good", ive not even said i would never buy one. What i said was the "appeal will be very limited (because of price) and unless another outdoor type market buys into it i would question its availability long term".
And, If you wanted an example of bad sleeping bag design what about Nash draft liner for the sleep system......the Carptech Goliath (which I know you bought into)
Yes the Carptech Goliath is a disappointment as a 4 season bag, softened very slightly that i only paid £55 for mine, but then im not claiming there arn't poor products around.
I know what you mean about finding the right bag that ticks your own requirements. I will be interested in reading the feedback after a season or two.
Personally I think the option of having a product like this again in this trade shows there is a market for it.
Ive not said there isnt a market for it. Ive said it "looks good", ive not even said i would never buy one. What i said was the "appeal will be very limited (because of price) and unless another outdoor type market buys into it i would question its availability long term".
And, If you wanted an example of bad sleeping bag design what about Nash draft liner for the sleep system......the Carptech Goliath (which I know you bought into)
Yes the Carptech Goliath is a disappointment as a 4 season bag, softened very slightly that i only paid £55 for mine, but then im not claiming there arn't poor products around.
I know what you mean about finding the right bag that ticks your own requirements. I will be interested in reading the feedback after a season or two.
Can't see a temperature rating for this bag unlike there other bags, best weight to warmth ratio compared to what. I've had a snugpak softie jacket warm but not exceptional for the loft imo. Had a snugpak 3 season bag that ripped internally.
And if people pay £250 on a bag, how likely are they to give an honest review if it ain't up to much?
And if people pay £250 on a bag, how likely are they to give an honest review if it ain't up to much?
Buy with confidence!!
I have owned a Snugpak elite softie 5 mummy style bag for the last 3 years and i fish right through winter. I put it to the test aswell in severe cold northern conditions by stripping right down to t-shirt and shorts in january , went to sleep woke up everything was frozen solid, i was toast that night! It is by far the warmest & best material bag i have owned by quite a distance.
Whilst appreciating the quality of the bag i kept saying to myself "i wish they made these in a square shape instead of a mummy style along with crash zips". This fortis snugpak bag has answered all my prayers. I cant believe they have bought one out specifically for carp fishing. It's 100% on my next to buy list. If my current snugpak bag is anything to go by this will be by far the best bag on the market for a long time to come.
I have owned a Snugpak elite softie 5 mummy style bag for the last 3 years and i fish right through winter. I put it to the test aswell in severe cold northern conditions by stripping right down to t-shirt and shorts in january , went to sleep woke up everything was frozen solid, i was toast that night! It is by far the warmest & best material bag i have owned by quite a distance.
Whilst appreciating the quality of the bag i kept saying to myself "i wish they made these in a square shape instead of a mummy style along with crash zips". This fortis snugpak bag has answered all my prayers. I cant believe they have bought one out specifically for carp fishing. It's 100% on my next to buy list. If my current snugpak bag is anything to go by this will be by far the best bag on the market for a long time to come.
You will probs find the 3 season gets you through 4 seasons and the 5th season zip on will be rated -20( comfort rating) or something daft.
My current elite softie 5 has a comfort rating of -15 & extreme -20
My current elite softie 5 has a comfort rating of -15 & extreme -20
In reply to Post #39
Quote: "Whilst appreciating the quality of the bag i kept saying to myself "i wish they made these in a square shape instead of a mummy style along with crash zips". This fortis snugpak bag has answered all my prayers".
I feel the same way. I have been using the Snugpack Elite 4 and can't believe how warm it is compared to everything else I have used and yet it packs down to very little and weighs less than 2kg. I also wished they did one with crash zips and rectangular - and now they have. Whether it will be quite as warm in a rectangular shape remains to be seen - and that may be why they have not used the temperature ratings they normally classify their sleeping bags in.
Like I said before it is overpriced - my Elite 4 cost me £86.50 from new. But if you factor in the ethics of paying someone a decent wage in a UK based product then that makes a difference. Seriously people, you get almost all your tackle as cheap as you do coz some poor Chinaman with a family to support gets 3 grains of rice a month as salary...
Quote: "Whilst appreciating the quality of the bag i kept saying to myself "i wish they made these in a square shape instead of a mummy style along with crash zips". This fortis snugpak bag has answered all my prayers".
I feel the same way. I have been using the Snugpack Elite 4 and can't believe how warm it is compared to everything else I have used and yet it packs down to very little and weighs less than 2kg. I also wished they did one with crash zips and rectangular - and now they have. Whether it will be quite as warm in a rectangular shape remains to be seen - and that may be why they have not used the temperature ratings they normally classify their sleeping bags in.
Like I said before it is overpriced - my Elite 4 cost me £86.50 from new. But if you factor in the ethics of paying someone a decent wage in a UK based product then that makes a difference. Seriously people, you get almost all your tackle as cheap as you do coz some poor Chinaman with a family to support gets 3 grains of rice a month as salary...
In reply to Post #40
Like I said before it is overpriced - my Elite 4 cost me £86.50 from new. But if you factor in the ethics of paying someone a decent wage in a UK based product then that makes a difference. Seriously people, you get almost all your tackle as cheap as you do coz some poor Chinaman with a family to support gets 3 grains of rice a month as salary..
Im sure you wouldnt try lecturing people about consumer ethics unless this theory is a constant in your life for everything you buy
Any product should be good enough quality wise to justify the extra cost .... not because of where it is made
Like I said before it is overpriced - my Elite 4 cost me £86.50 from new. But if you factor in the ethics of paying someone a decent wage in a UK based product then that makes a difference. Seriously people, you get almost all your tackle as cheap as you do coz some poor Chinaman with a family to support gets 3 grains of rice a month as salary..
Im sure you wouldnt try lecturing people about consumer ethics unless this theory is a constant in your life for everything you buy
Any product should be good enough quality wise to justify the extra cost .... not because of where it is made
In reply to Post #41
Ha ha ha, not a lecture just a statement of fact. As a consumer I am as hypocritical as the next person and also like a bargain and a cheap deal. I never said I only buy ethically. The post was about why a UK designed, developed, manufactured and sold product - which this Fortis x Snugpack is meant to be - costs quite as much as it does compared to getting it all done in China where labour is dirt cheap.
We could exchange views on the merits of an international minimum wage if you like...
Ha ha ha, not a lecture just a statement of fact. As a consumer I am as hypocritical as the next person and also like a bargain and a cheap deal. I never said I only buy ethically. The post was about why a UK designed, developed, manufactured and sold product - which this Fortis x Snugpack is meant to be - costs quite as much as it does compared to getting it all done in China where labour is dirt cheap.
We could exchange views on the merits of an international minimum wage if you like...
In reply to Post #42
We could exchange views on the merits of an international minimum wage if you like...
Can it wait until i get back from Primark??
We could exchange views on the merits of an international minimum wage if you like...
Can it wait until i get back from Primark??
In reply to Post #42
there might be almost double the material in the fortis one too. not to mention increased R&D and build time and costs as its a new design for snugpak.
Whilst I agree that there's many that will give a rave review then quietly sell something on later when it doesnt seem quite so good.
there are also a notable few that give warts and all reviews and G4ne is one of them.
there might be almost double the material in the fortis one too. not to mention increased R&D and build time and costs as its a new design for snugpak.
Whilst I agree that there's many that will give a rave review then quietly sell something on later when it doesnt seem quite so good.
there are also a notable few that give warts and all reviews and G4ne is one of them.
In reply to Post #44
If they sold a wide boy, id buy one in an instant
Fortis......are you listening
If they sold a wide boy, id buy one in an instant
Fortis......are you listening