Imo availability of free food is paramount regardless of quality. Anything that can be eaten without getting caught on is going to be more successful as long as the carp like to eat it. The only difference between a standard food and a super food will be that the fish grow faster. In this day and age of so many baits going into a lake it's impossible for the fish to become bait selective so availability is imo absolutely everything, obviously putting said food in the right place is a great help
In reply to Post #15
I thought i had tried to make it clear that mainline, is not crap. Just not the best available.
As someone else has said, I'm of the opinion that in most lakes, so many different baits are going in that it's impossible for the fish to tell which one is giving them the most benefit.( belief in hnv theory is a whole argument in itself, one which I believed was gospel, but now think is largely irrelevant. ) so we are left with location and food supply as the relevant factors. Obviously some people are better at finding the fish in the first place. Then have the dedication to keep getting there first. Also not everyone can cast 150 yards accurately and bait accurately too. Bait boats are a real leveler here.
I thought i had tried to make it clear that mainline, is not crap. Just not the best available.
As someone else has said, I'm of the opinion that in most lakes, so many different baits are going in that it's impossible for the fish to tell which one is giving them the most benefit.( belief in hnv theory is a whole argument in itself, one which I believed was gospel, but now think is largely irrelevant. ) so we are left with location and food supply as the relevant factors. Obviously some people are better at finding the fish in the first place. Then have the dedication to keep getting there first. Also not everyone can cast 150 yards accurately and bait accurately too. Bait boats are a real leveler here.
In reply to Post #17
Hence my "If you're saying Mainline is rubbish bait, you're an idiot( not accussing anyone)" - that was more a genralisation I read on here and in general about Mainline bait and not aimed at you in person.
Hence my "If you're saying Mainline is rubbish bait, you're an idiot( not accussing anyone)" - that was more a genralisation I read on here and in general about Mainline bait and not aimed at you in person.
In reply to Post #4
Quote.... Isn't the criteria, that there more than 2000 fish in that lake who need to eat...
Someone who see's past the headlines. When he was fishing on the car park, catching a brace of 40's, there were circa ten carp in there. 20%. Far wiser, far longer fished for carp too.
On that basis, to equal those kind of feats, I'd be looking for him to bank more than 400 x 40's from that place. It's not really carp fishing as we knew it anymore, not with those sorts of stock.
So many of the 'elite' waters these days have a joke amount of carp in them. Even the revered ones. It's all being dumbed down constantly.
Quote.... Isn't the criteria, that there more than 2000 fish in that lake who need to eat...
Someone who see's past the headlines. When he was fishing on the car park, catching a brace of 40's, there were circa ten carp in there. 20%. Far wiser, far longer fished for carp too.
On that basis, to equal those kind of feats, I'd be looking for him to bank more than 400 x 40's from that place. It's not really carp fishing as we knew it anymore, not with those sorts of stock.
So many of the 'elite' waters these days have a joke amount of carp in them. Even the revered ones. It's all being dumbed down constantly.
'
I dont no how these full time anglers get some much credit. Fishing over stocked lakes for sponsors.
Look at Tom stockes, fishing some of the best waters to Norton Disney.
Id much prefer to watch a video on a hard lake where they had to work for it then have a Bayliff drop you 30 kilo on a spot so you can brag
Look at Tom stockes, fishing some of the best waters to Norton Disney.
Id much prefer to watch a video on a hard lake where they had to work for it then have a Bayliff drop you 30 kilo on a spot so you can brag
In reply to Post #21
How long will the enthusiasm last if you can catch 40's to order?
How long will the enthusiasm last if you can catch 40's to order?
In reply to Post #22
When people stop recognising them as top anglers. There full time, give anyone half decent that Time most would produce the same.
When people stop recognising them as top anglers. There full time, give anyone half decent that Time most would produce the same.
In reply to Post #21
Oz holness comes to mind.
Oz holness comes to mind.
In reply to Post #23
My mate always says that time in fishing makes up for lack of talent. For me I always wonder if the bait that the sponsored anglers get is the same bait as everyone else.
My mate always says that time in fishing makes up for lack of talent. For me I always wonder if the bait that the sponsored anglers get is the same bait as everyone else.
In reply to Post #22
Totally agree,
Years ago I was in awe of someone who'd had a twenty pounder,now you can start off fishing ,catch a 30 pounder ,instant access and results in some cases, especially if you have money .
It's not progress,it's soulless...
Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it will happen ,its coming and the biggest laugh of all is the search for a mega bait, a bait that makes dreams , such a bait does not and never will.exist ..
Hence ,location ,presentation and bait in that order,taught to me by one of Kents finest Original anglers ,it has to be in that order because ,bait ...is ...only a ,very small part of the equation..
Totally agree,
Years ago I was in awe of someone who'd had a twenty pounder,now you can start off fishing ,catch a 30 pounder ,instant access and results in some cases, especially if you have money .
It's not progress,it's soulless...
Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it will happen ,its coming and the biggest laugh of all is the search for a mega bait, a bait that makes dreams , such a bait does not and never will.exist ..
Hence ,location ,presentation and bait in that order,taught to me by one of Kents finest Original anglers ,it has to be in that order because ,bait ...is ...only a ,very small part of the equation..
In reply to Post #26
"Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it"
This. Especially the urge to give fish names, like they give a ****.
"Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it"
This. Especially the urge to give fish names, like they give a ****.
the reason that these guys get the free bait & paid to fish is because of the results they had when they didn't get free bait & had limited time to fish.
I've fished plenty of places where full timers never got anywhere near the results of guys who fished properly & made the most of their limited time. time can be a leveller in some ways but it's not as important as some people are making out. good anglers are still good anglers & will catch loads wherever they go. tom stokes fishes norton because he is paid to - it's his job - to catch fish from the lakes & post them on social media to advertise them. same as darrel did in the mainline video.
that catch from Grenville isn;t that different to what others have done before on film - using different baits & tackle from different manufacturers. darrel mentioned on his recent podcast that it wasn't even his best trip on there last year.
certainly not something that was groundbreaking & have people changing their opinions on what makes a decent bait.
I've fished plenty of places where full timers never got anywhere near the results of guys who fished properly & made the most of their limited time. time can be a leveller in some ways but it's not as important as some people are making out. good anglers are still good anglers & will catch loads wherever they go. tom stokes fishes norton because he is paid to - it's his job - to catch fish from the lakes & post them on social media to advertise them. same as darrel did in the mainline video.
that catch from Grenville isn;t that different to what others have done before on film - using different baits & tackle from different manufacturers. darrel mentioned on his recent podcast that it wasn't even his best trip on there last year.
certainly not something that was groundbreaking & have people changing their opinions on what makes a decent bait.
Time and effort are 2 different things when fishing
Put enough time in and you will eventually catch a fish
Put a lot of effort in and you will catch more
These sponsorships are rewarding the effort of a few and I'm not talking about 20% of bait you could phone most companies up and they would give you that and call you sponsored I'm talking totally free bait free tackle even in some cases getting paid to fish
Then you get the anglers that put in the effort catch the fish and say nothing and go back to there day jobs because fishing is and will always be there enjoyment and hobby
I know a very good angler who catches a lot of fish and goes to work every day
Is he sponsored yes he is does he scream it from the roof tops most would walk past him in the carp shows and wouldn't turn a hair
Mickey grey is another
Fish for you nobody else
Put enough time in and you will eventually catch a fish
Put a lot of effort in and you will catch more
These sponsorships are rewarding the effort of a few and I'm not talking about 20% of bait you could phone most companies up and they would give you that and call you sponsored I'm talking totally free bait free tackle even in some cases getting paid to fish
Then you get the anglers that put in the effort catch the fish and say nothing and go back to there day jobs because fishing is and will always be there enjoyment and hobby
I know a very good angler who catches a lot of fish and goes to work every day
Is he sponsored yes he is does he scream it from the roof tops most would walk past him in the carp shows and wouldn't turn a hair
Mickey grey is another
Fish for you nobody else
I think it's a really good original question, and one that I spend an awful lot of time on.
Anything that is put in a decent spot in that quantity that is a decent bait would probably have had the same result. Free food, very competitive situation with hungry fish and bait placement sprayed from a boat (I assume). Most of us will have done similar on week trips, let's not pretend that a decision was made to maximise a particular session, it was probably hatched weeks before a bait and wait film that showed how to build a swim and maximise catches.
Where I think bait is super important and quality matters is on the more normal type situations, where fewer mouths have a choice. Especially in winter, fish that don't really need to feed have to be tempted (or annoyed) enough to take a bait. In these situations I would much rather have the very best possible than bag fulls of ‘good' bait.
A bait that is absolutely the best it can be, whilst you probably won't get anything better than naturals, I enjoy trying. I love pitting my wits against not just the fish but other anglers who buy 5kg of sawdust shelf life baits off eBay.
We all know that sometimes you will get your arse kicked by a worse bait, a worse rig, or lazy location - but I'd prefer to struggle doing my best that sit behind bait, rigs and spots and take my turn doing exactly the same as the other 90%.
So does bait matter - probably not as much as we think it does.
Does confidence matter and doing the very best - I think so. I also have very lazy sessions when I just want to go fishing and sit there for a few hours not really expecting to catch - often trying to learn a new lake but in the days of all the gadgets the only edges left and out of reach of the herd is bait science, rig science and 6th sense location.
Anything that is put in a decent spot in that quantity that is a decent bait would probably have had the same result. Free food, very competitive situation with hungry fish and bait placement sprayed from a boat (I assume). Most of us will have done similar on week trips, let's not pretend that a decision was made to maximise a particular session, it was probably hatched weeks before a bait and wait film that showed how to build a swim and maximise catches.
Where I think bait is super important and quality matters is on the more normal type situations, where fewer mouths have a choice. Especially in winter, fish that don't really need to feed have to be tempted (or annoyed) enough to take a bait. In these situations I would much rather have the very best possible than bag fulls of ‘good' bait.
A bait that is absolutely the best it can be, whilst you probably won't get anything better than naturals, I enjoy trying. I love pitting my wits against not just the fish but other anglers who buy 5kg of sawdust shelf life baits off eBay.
We all know that sometimes you will get your arse kicked by a worse bait, a worse rig, or lazy location - but I'd prefer to struggle doing my best that sit behind bait, rigs and spots and take my turn doing exactly the same as the other 90%.
So does bait matter - probably not as much as we think it does.
Does confidence matter and doing the very best - I think so. I also have very lazy sessions when I just want to go fishing and sit there for a few hours not really expecting to catch - often trying to learn a new lake but in the days of all the gadgets the only edges left and out of reach of the herd is bait science, rig science and 6th sense location.