In reply to Post #15
So you are saying that Grange was the most nutritionally balanced bait being fed? Or was it just the only bait being fed, in big quantities? And why did the fish start coming out on 8-ball when that started being fed?
Don't get me wrong, if i could still get the proper Grange, id still be on it. But it wasn't the most nutritionally perfect bait around at the time......
So you are saying that Grange was the most nutritionally balanced bait being fed? Or was it just the only bait being fed, in big quantities? And why did the fish start coming out on 8-ball when that started being fed?
Don't get me wrong, if i could still get the proper Grange, id still be on it. But it wasn't the most nutritionally perfect bait around at the time......
In reply to Post #16
Grange was Mainlines test pit. Almost everyone on there was a Mainline angler.
The switch from Grange CSL to 8Ball was the progression, and each was pretty much the only bait being fed.
Those who tried other baits failed, and ended up using Mainline bait. Its common knowledge that field testers were selling bait straight from the factory and making money out of it.
This country pretty much had a north/south divide, Mainline in the south, Nutrabaits in the north. It took the rise of selling direct (at less than tackle shop prices) for other bait companies to break into the market, or the hiring of a big name and a massive advertising campaign.
Grange does or did contain a complete protein profile, a yeast protein, and mixed with the Corn Steep liquor which contains amino acids and vitamins and minerals it was a decent food source.
Activ8 was a simple follow on still containing the vecon.
Grange was Mainlines test pit. Almost everyone on there was a Mainline angler.
The switch from Grange CSL to 8Ball was the progression, and each was pretty much the only bait being fed.
Those who tried other baits failed, and ended up using Mainline bait. Its common knowledge that field testers were selling bait straight from the factory and making money out of it.
This country pretty much had a north/south divide, Mainline in the south, Nutrabaits in the north. It took the rise of selling direct (at less than tackle shop prices) for other bait companies to break into the market, or the hiring of a big name and a massive advertising campaign.
Grange does or did contain a complete protein profile, a yeast protein, and mixed with the Corn Steep liquor which contains amino acids and vitamins and minerals it was a decent food source.
Activ8 was a simple follow on still containing the vecon.
In reply to Post #17
Back in the day I fished the Grange for a number of years and have never used a Mainline bait in my life, despite meeting Kevin and Steve down there. Maybe I just like making life harder for myself.
I agree that the water was saturation baited with whichever M bait was that years choice. And I agree that those using the bait caught plenty.
In the limited time I did on there I found that it wasn't easy to compete. I caught my share either with single smelly baits over big buckets of hemp or very small baits with tiny stringers. But it was a bit of an act of faith to try fishing like that.....
Back in the day I fished the Grange for a number of years and have never used a Mainline bait in my life, despite meeting Kevin and Steve down there. Maybe I just like making life harder for myself.
I agree that the water was saturation baited with whichever M bait was that years choice. And I agree that those using the bait caught plenty.
In the limited time I did on there I found that it wasn't easy to compete. I caught my share either with single smelly baits over big buckets of hemp or very small baits with tiny stringers. But it was a bit of an act of faith to try fishing like that.....
In reply to Post #17
That's my point - it wasn't the "best" bait, it was basically the only bait!
Just look at the results on Richworth readmades on unfairfield when there was a lot of other decent baits being fed in. Although it helps if you can put it in the right areas......
That's my point - it wasn't the "best" bait, it was basically the only bait!
Just look at the results on Richworth readmades on unfairfield when there was a lot of other decent baits being fed in. Although it helps if you can put it in the right areas......
In reply to Post #19
That's my point - it wasn't the "best" bait, it was basically the only bait!
Just look at the results on Richworth readmades on unfairfield when there was a lot of other decent baits being fed in. Although it helps if you can put it in the right areas
You're mixing your concepts.
The Richworth Tutti-Fruttis on Harefield were using attraction, attractor baits, the flavour, sticky sweet, in limited amounts.
Squimp used exactly the same concept on The Grange, with hemp or tiny stringers.
Attractor baits work in limited amounts. You don't fish with massive amounts of free boilies, you rely on the high attraction or even nutrition of the background feed (hemp) or the limited amount of freebies.
In the limited time I did on there I found that it wasn't easy to compete. I caught my share either with single smelly baits over big buckets of hemp or very small baits with tiny stringers. But it was a bit of an act of faith to try fishing like that
If you put an attractor bait, in the right place, as you rightly say, on a guaranteed patrol route, or on a natural food source, even over leftover bait, it can catch.
If a carp is munching and feeding over food, be that particles or boilies, it does not usually stop to inspect every item. Whatever boilie is on the hook will be taken.
If the boilie is giving off the right attraction signals on a patrol route, the carp might stop to take it. It does not necessarily mean that it is a viable food source. To inspect a bait the carp have to pick it up and mouth it, because they don't have hands. An efficient rig means they get hooked!
Years ago, back when I was still a youngster in my teens, I still caught my fair share of carp, on shelf life boilies, the ubiquitous Tutti-Frutti and Honey Yucatan baits. One bag would last me weeks, fishing every weekend. I discovered that a 3 or 4 bait stringer with the hookbait was all I needed to catch. I caught less when I used more!
It was the attraction of the high flavour level that got the fish picking up the hookbait. The same fish rarely got caught on the same boilie, to any angler. (Bear in mind we were all mates fishing the same water, so pooled information and baits). To continue catching you regularly had to change baits, until we discovered grinding up pond pellets, adding casein and semolina and making boilies.
We have gone back to the high attraction fishing, using spod mixes, particles, hydrolysate liquids and glugs instead of high attraction attractor boilies. Food source bait fishing is now a minority, except for those in the know, due in part because of the increased price of fishmeal.
That's my point - it wasn't the "best" bait, it was basically the only bait!
Just look at the results on Richworth readmades on unfairfield when there was a lot of other decent baits being fed in. Although it helps if you can put it in the right areas
You're mixing your concepts.
The Richworth Tutti-Fruttis on Harefield were using attraction, attractor baits, the flavour, sticky sweet, in limited amounts.
Squimp used exactly the same concept on The Grange, with hemp or tiny stringers.
Attractor baits work in limited amounts. You don't fish with massive amounts of free boilies, you rely on the high attraction or even nutrition of the background feed (hemp) or the limited amount of freebies.
In the limited time I did on there I found that it wasn't easy to compete. I caught my share either with single smelly baits over big buckets of hemp or very small baits with tiny stringers. But it was a bit of an act of faith to try fishing like that
If you put an attractor bait, in the right place, as you rightly say, on a guaranteed patrol route, or on a natural food source, even over leftover bait, it can catch.
If a carp is munching and feeding over food, be that particles or boilies, it does not usually stop to inspect every item. Whatever boilie is on the hook will be taken.
If the boilie is giving off the right attraction signals on a patrol route, the carp might stop to take it. It does not necessarily mean that it is a viable food source. To inspect a bait the carp have to pick it up and mouth it, because they don't have hands. An efficient rig means they get hooked!
Years ago, back when I was still a youngster in my teens, I still caught my fair share of carp, on shelf life boilies, the ubiquitous Tutti-Frutti and Honey Yucatan baits. One bag would last me weeks, fishing every weekend. I discovered that a 3 or 4 bait stringer with the hookbait was all I needed to catch. I caught less when I used more!
It was the attraction of the high flavour level that got the fish picking up the hookbait. The same fish rarely got caught on the same boilie, to any angler. (Bear in mind we were all mates fishing the same water, so pooled information and baits). To continue catching you regularly had to change baits, until we discovered grinding up pond pellets, adding casein and semolina and making boilies.
We have gone back to the high attraction fishing, using spod mixes, particles, hydrolysate liquids and glugs instead of high attraction attractor boilies. Food source bait fishing is now a minority, except for those in the know, due in part because of the increased price of fishmeal.
In reply to Post #20
Do you roll your own baits now or look for particular ingredients in a bait?
Do you roll your own baits now or look for particular ingredients in a bait?
In reply to Post #20
No Nick, there was, shall we say “boatloads” of Richworths going into Harefield. Not just Tutti's.
No Nick, there was, shall we say “boatloads” of Richworths going into Harefield. Not just Tutti's.
In reply to Post #22
Condensed Milk aka ‘Harefield Hauler'.
Condensed Milk aka ‘Harefield Hauler'.
In reply to Post #22
No Nick, there was, shall we say “boatloads” of Richworths going into Harefield. Not just Tutti's.
Not everyone using Richworths caught.
Baits can complement each other.
Many anglers who fished Harefield were rolling and fishing with high protein fishmeal baits.
Now this is the complement bit, the first nutritional need is for energy, which the high carbohydrate Richworths provided. The protein was provided by the Premier fishmeal baits.
Equally, you had anglers jumping in and fishing with Richworths over fishmeal boilies. Again, by accident or design, all nutritional needs provided, along with increased attraction of the fishmeal breaking down.
No Nick, there was, shall we say “boatloads” of Richworths going into Harefield. Not just Tutti's.
Not everyone using Richworths caught.
Baits can complement each other.
Many anglers who fished Harefield were rolling and fishing with high protein fishmeal baits.
Now this is the complement bit, the first nutritional need is for energy, which the high carbohydrate Richworths provided. The protein was provided by the Premier fishmeal baits.
Equally, you had anglers jumping in and fishing with Richworths over fishmeal boilies. Again, by accident or design, all nutritional needs provided, along with increased attraction of the fishmeal breaking down.
In reply to Post #24
And a lot of those anglers fishing their own baits admitted defeat and bought readymade. Selman and Lane mention it, for example.
But just goes to show the bait you use doesn't have to the best, most nutritious bait going. Just putting something they want to eat in the right place trumps any bait.
And a lot of those anglers fishing their own baits admitted defeat and bought readymade. Selman and Lane mention it, for example.
But just goes to show the bait you use doesn't have to the best, most nutritious bait going. Just putting something they want to eat in the right place trumps any bait.
In reply to Post #25
I have been to so many venues now where they tell you that you must be on a certain boilie to get results. Normally due to the fact that they sell the bait there (which I understand as they want to make extra money) but hand on heart, my own results often prove that a decent well balanced bait that is nothing like the bait being sold is often a better choice. A good bait is a good bait, and I try to look back with an open mind. Attractor baits can work short term as can tigers or sweetcorn but the biggest and more awkward ones to catch always slip up on a decent bait in the end. Welly was dominated by b5 when I went there and even the lads sponsored by other companies were using it. Three of us started on hnv pro and used maybe 2 percent of the volume of the other lads and we had an amazing season with all of the big mirrors slipping up to us.
Why do I think this happens? Well when anything is used to excess it always loses its effectiveness and the greater the pressure, the quicker it happens. Also, big carp need certain minerals and salts which they don't get from a lot of modern baits.
Tuttis In very small amounts can be effective but I found that I generally had poor results if I overdid them (too strong)
I always use small volumes of bait but they are all high protein and rich in minerals yet low in flavours.......and it seems to work everywhere regardless of who is piling in particles or boilies.
I have been to so many venues now where they tell you that you must be on a certain boilie to get results. Normally due to the fact that they sell the bait there (which I understand as they want to make extra money) but hand on heart, my own results often prove that a decent well balanced bait that is nothing like the bait being sold is often a better choice. A good bait is a good bait, and I try to look back with an open mind. Attractor baits can work short term as can tigers or sweetcorn but the biggest and more awkward ones to catch always slip up on a decent bait in the end. Welly was dominated by b5 when I went there and even the lads sponsored by other companies were using it. Three of us started on hnv pro and used maybe 2 percent of the volume of the other lads and we had an amazing season with all of the big mirrors slipping up to us.
Why do I think this happens? Well when anything is used to excess it always loses its effectiveness and the greater the pressure, the quicker it happens. Also, big carp need certain minerals and salts which they don't get from a lot of modern baits.
Tuttis In very small amounts can be effective but I found that I generally had poor results if I overdid them (too strong)
I always use small volumes of bait but they are all high protein and rich in minerals yet low in flavours.......and it seems to work everywhere regardless of who is piling in particles or boilies.
In reply to Post #26
Personally I've found sweetcorn & tiger nuts to work over long periods of time and catch some incredible fish not just short term as you suggested, no doubt decent boilies are very effective also.
IMO it's the calibre of angler and how they are fishing which will impact on results regardless at times of baits being used.
Personally I've found sweetcorn & tiger nuts to work over long periods of time and catch some incredible fish not just short term as you suggested, no doubt decent boilies are very effective also.
IMO it's the calibre of angler and how they are fishing which will impact on results regardless at times of baits being used.
In reply to Post #26
Don't get me wrong Gary - the two baits I buy, and the baits i make myself, I'm happy provide carp with everything they need. But if you think of the amount of different baits that go into a lot of day ticket waters is it worth it for occasional short visits? Sensible tactics make more of a difference imo
Totally different with a water that you're able to put some time in on tho.
Don't get me wrong Gary - the two baits I buy, and the baits i make myself, I'm happy provide carp with everything they need. But if you think of the amount of different baits that go into a lot of day ticket waters is it worth it for occasional short visits? Sensible tactics make more of a difference imo
Totally different with a water that you're able to put some time in on tho.
In reply to Post #28
Every bait has some nutrition but I don't believe long campaign succes can only happen with baits that fulfill all carps needs. Had to many great experience with tigers, high carb baits, etc.
This basically due to the fact that your boilie/bait isn't their only feed source.
Nevertheless, white papers have confirmed that carp can be selective towards their feed intake: e.g. when 3 populations of carp were fed with deficient feed (1 population good carbs deficient, the other fat and the last protein.) They selected the bait containing the nutricient they were lacking. This situation would only be valid with a unbalanced feed supply and/or an overstocked lake. In any other situation the baits providing carp the complete essential spectrum of nutrition will not automatically outfish other baits.
Every bait has some nutrition but I don't believe long campaign succes can only happen with baits that fulfill all carps needs. Had to many great experience with tigers, high carb baits, etc.
This basically due to the fact that your boilie/bait isn't their only feed source.
Nevertheless, white papers have confirmed that carp can be selective towards their feed intake: e.g. when 3 populations of carp were fed with deficient feed (1 population good carbs deficient, the other fat and the last protein.) They selected the bait containing the nutricient they were lacking. This situation would only be valid with a unbalanced feed supply and/or an overstocked lake. In any other situation the baits providing carp the complete essential spectrum of nutrition will not automatically outfish other baits.
In reply to Post #28
There's being confident but then there's actually analysing what you've got infront of you., speaking to suppliers and knowing what roughly goes into the bait etc
There's being confident but then there's actually analysing what you've got infront of you., speaking to suppliers and knowing what roughly goes into the bait etc