In reply to Post #14
I had a debate with an established lake owner about leadcore and he reckoned that it's safe to use if used properly and that if he'd tied 15lb mono to my ankles and ask me to swim out of a snag I wouldn't be able too...
I can think of one very well known and hugely respected lake owner who would take great issue with "your" lake owner! If you are on Facebook message this guy. He'll put you straight. He could write a book about the dangers of leadcore.
Keith Moors.
I had a debate with an established lake owner about leadcore and he reckoned that it's safe to use if used properly and that if he'd tied 15lb mono to my ankles and ask me to swim out of a snag I wouldn't be able too...
I can think of one very well known and hugely respected lake owner who would take great issue with "your" lake owner! If you are on Facebook message this guy. He'll put you straight. He could write a book about the dangers of leadcore.
Keith Moors.
In reply to Post #14
I agree with your conclusion. I like using leadcore but for safety will only ever use on a helicopter style setup. I cringe when I see it used with a lead clip even though I have seen it used by some very good anglers, I simply cannot bring myself to use it. For me it is either lead clips with tubing, running rigs naked or helicopter rigs with leadcore which then covers virtually any scenario I tend to face
I agree with your conclusion. I like using leadcore but for safety will only ever use on a helicopter style setup. I cringe when I see it used with a lead clip even though I have seen it used by some very good anglers, I simply cannot bring myself to use it. For me it is either lead clips with tubing, running rigs naked or helicopter rigs with leadcore which then covers virtually any scenario I tend to face
In reply to Post #14
Your rig is a potential death rig BECAUSE the clip and tail rubber pass over the knot too. That means that the clip can come away from the swivel, therefore not allowing the lead to come off of the clip. If your leadcore then gets tangles or kinked, or somethings stuck on the knot then you are left with a length of leadcore with a fish at one end and a lead at the other. This has potential to become snagged up tethering the fish as the clip itself could become jammed even if the lead does manage to come off. Lead clips and lead core don't mix, simple
Your rig is a potential death rig BECAUSE the clip and tail rubber pass over the knot too. That means that the clip can come away from the swivel, therefore not allowing the lead to come off of the clip. If your leadcore then gets tangles or kinked, or somethings stuck on the knot then you are left with a length of leadcore with a fish at one end and a lead at the other. This has potential to become snagged up tethering the fish as the clip itself could become jammed even if the lead does manage to come off. Lead clips and lead core don't mix, simple
In reply to Post #18
They just dont get it IP100.
They just dont get it IP100.
In reply to Post #14
it looks like the pin is fixed through the lead clip and swivel eye preventing the clip from moving at all? If that's the case, would the fish be able to lose the lead if broken up (rare occasion)?
The whole point about a fixed clip is thast it allows the lead to come off when required. The very last thing youy want is for the clip + the lead to detach from the swivel, running up and down the line, even it it can slide over the leader knot. If you are concerned that on the rare occasions that you get snapped up the lead may not discharge then hold the jaws of the clip together with PVA string.
Alternatively use the MCF Dumper System. Dennis McFetrich is probably one of the most successful big carp angler you have never heard of, which is how he likes it!!!
LINK - McFetrich Dumper Lead Clip
it looks like the pin is fixed through the lead clip and swivel eye preventing the clip from moving at all? If that's the case, would the fish be able to lose the lead if broken up (rare occasion)?
The whole point about a fixed clip is thast it allows the lead to come off when required. The very last thing youy want is for the clip + the lead to detach from the swivel, running up and down the line, even it it can slide over the leader knot. If you are concerned that on the rare occasions that you get snapped up the lead may not discharge then hold the jaws of the clip together with PVA string.
Alternatively use the MCF Dumper System. Dennis McFetrich is probably one of the most successful big carp angler you have never heard of, which is how he likes it!!!
LINK - McFetrich Dumper Lead Clip
In reply to Post #16
My set up is not a potential death rig as the rubber tail with lead clip easily runs over my mono knot with the slightest resistance. As mentioned, lead core is a must on my water as there are too many obstacles in them.
I had a debate with an established lake owner about leadcore and he reckoned that it's safe to use if used properly and that if he'd tied 15lb mono to my ankles and ask me to swim out of a snag I wouldn't be able too...
Sorry, your set up is a potential death rig, anything with leadcore is!
If you have to use leadcore, then do go back to a helicopter set-up, but even then.
I know exactly where Ken is coming from with his mentioning Keith Moors, and Keith Moors wrote an article in Advanced Carp Fishing after I sent them some experiment results that I undertook with leadcore set-ups, and argued about the safety of a leadcore set-up they published in an article.
First thing that worried me was where I got smashed up on a weedy water with a running lead set-up. The gravel bars were severe enough to cut me off above the leadcore. The fish would be trailing the rig and leadcore, even if the lead was ejected.
I'll go back to my experiments, carried out in a water in winter where I was able to retrieve any smashed rigs, lost fish etc.
If any pendant (read lead clip, run ring) or inline lead setup got broken above the leadcore, then the fish were trailing the whole lot. A helicopter rig, the rig had to be able to come off the leadcore.
The first place lost fish swam to was the snags to recover or hide.
If they were trailing any length of leadcore over around 300mm, 1 foot, then they could get tethered to the branches or twigs, it was able to wrap round them. I had to go in in the winter up to my chest, to release fish, one of my own losses, and another that had been there for a period of time.
I tested a few brands of leadcore; some would kink, preventing beads from sliding, on some the lead would push through the weave, preventing anything anything sliding over it. No brand was 100%.
There is NO WAY that a fish, of any size, could snap 45lb leadcore, not with a hook in the mouth, if tethered to a snag. With leadcore wrapped around forceps I struggled to break it. The forceps bent first, and the leadcore just tightened into the branch I wrapped it round.
You could hope the fish rips its mouth if it breaks free..
Leadcore if it has wrapped around a twig or stick, can then tangle and catch up weed. The fish is then towing a ball of weed and rubbish. Ask Keith Moors what happens then!
I think it was Linear, Arnie the big common was found tethered to trees, very dead, caught up on leadcore.
Suffolk Water Park I believe lost the Grey Fish, (Clare Park fish) to being snagged up and tethered on leadcore.
My set up is not a potential death rig as the rubber tail with lead clip easily runs over my mono knot with the slightest resistance. As mentioned, lead core is a must on my water as there are too many obstacles in them.
I had a debate with an established lake owner about leadcore and he reckoned that it's safe to use if used properly and that if he'd tied 15lb mono to my ankles and ask me to swim out of a snag I wouldn't be able too...
Sorry, your set up is a potential death rig, anything with leadcore is!
If you have to use leadcore, then do go back to a helicopter set-up, but even then.
I know exactly where Ken is coming from with his mentioning Keith Moors, and Keith Moors wrote an article in Advanced Carp Fishing after I sent them some experiment results that I undertook with leadcore set-ups, and argued about the safety of a leadcore set-up they published in an article.
First thing that worried me was where I got smashed up on a weedy water with a running lead set-up. The gravel bars were severe enough to cut me off above the leadcore. The fish would be trailing the rig and leadcore, even if the lead was ejected.
I'll go back to my experiments, carried out in a water in winter where I was able to retrieve any smashed rigs, lost fish etc.
If any pendant (read lead clip, run ring) or inline lead setup got broken above the leadcore, then the fish were trailing the whole lot. A helicopter rig, the rig had to be able to come off the leadcore.
The first place lost fish swam to was the snags to recover or hide.
If they were trailing any length of leadcore over around 300mm, 1 foot, then they could get tethered to the branches or twigs, it was able to wrap round them. I had to go in in the winter up to my chest, to release fish, one of my own losses, and another that had been there for a period of time.
I tested a few brands of leadcore; some would kink, preventing beads from sliding, on some the lead would push through the weave, preventing anything anything sliding over it. No brand was 100%.
There is NO WAY that a fish, of any size, could snap 45lb leadcore, not with a hook in the mouth, if tethered to a snag. With leadcore wrapped around forceps I struggled to break it. The forceps bent first, and the leadcore just tightened into the branch I wrapped it round.
You could hope the fish rips its mouth if it breaks free..
Leadcore if it has wrapped around a twig or stick, can then tangle and catch up weed. The fish is then towing a ball of weed and rubbish. Ask Keith Moors what happens then!
I think it was Linear, Arnie the big common was found tethered to trees, very dead, caught up on leadcore.
Suffolk Water Park I believe lost the Grey Fish, (Clare Park fish) to being snagged up and tethered on leadcore.
In reply to Post #18
Stupid is as stupid does Ian. Some people just don't or won't listen and blindy carry on fishing like this regardless.
He's even misunderstood the lake owner, who is quite right in saying that leadcore can be fished safely. But absolutely not with a leadclip and absolutely not on a running leadclip.
He won't be told though so just be glad he's not fishing anywhere you might be.
Stupid is as stupid does Ian. Some people just don't or won't listen and blindy carry on fishing like this regardless.
He's even misunderstood the lake owner, who is quite right in saying that leadcore can be fished safely. But absolutely not with a leadclip and absolutely not on a running leadclip.
He won't be told though so just be glad he's not fishing anywhere you might be.
Agreed, lead clips and leadcore are not suitable to be used together...
If the clip is getting stuck on the top knot when playing a fish then it just shows what will happen if and when the rig is lost due to a mainline breakage... Let alone if the top knot was carrying a bit of weed too.
Helicopter rigs all the way with leadcore imo... Ideally with a no trace bead or similar
If the clip is getting stuck on the top knot when playing a fish then it just shows what will happen if and when the rig is lost due to a mainline breakage... Let alone if the top knot was carrying a bit of weed too.
Helicopter rigs all the way with leadcore imo... Ideally with a no trace bead or similar
In reply to Post #22
I know mate, it's worrying when people use things like lead core when they don't even seem to understand how a lead clip works...
I know mate, it's worrying when people use things like lead core when they don't even seem to understand how a lead clip works...
In reply to Post #20
Actually mentions using leadcore with those clips
And them clips automatically drop the lead
So they are a no no aswell lol
Actually mentions using leadcore with those clips
And them clips automatically drop the lead
So they are a no no aswell lol
In reply to Post #23
To clarify, he refers to the lead clip passing over the knot and onto the main line, so that when he is playing a fish the lead clip and lead is above the knot.
To clarify, he refers to the lead clip passing over the knot and onto the main line, so that when he is playing a fish the lead clip and lead is above the knot.
In reply to Post #26
Which makes the rig potentially dangerous....as well as relying on the leader not being tangled or kinked to prevent it sliding off
Which makes the rig potentially dangerous....as well as relying on the leader not being tangled or kinked to prevent it sliding off
In reply to Post #21
Excellent points, fully agree.
FYI - Arnie the Common was Orchid lakes, which obviously now bans all leaders.
Excellent points, fully agree.
FYI - Arnie the Common was Orchid lakes, which obviously now bans all leaders.
Two rig horror stories showing how the use and abuse of lead clips can lead to huge problems. In both cases the lead has not discharged and the set up on the right includes leadcore which probably caused the tangles after the rig cracked off..
PB Products Hit and Run clip is the ONLY one I would ever consider using.
PB Products Hit and Run clip is the ONLY one I would ever consider using.
In reply to Post #29
It illustrates the fact that leadclips with the tail rubber pushed fully onto the clip are not fish friendly semi-fixed rigs. They become lethal fixed rigs which have been banned on most lakes for decades. Have only ever landed three fish trailing line, all of the rigs involved included line clips.
It illustrates the fact that leadclips with the tail rubber pushed fully onto the clip are not fish friendly semi-fixed rigs. They become lethal fixed rigs which have been banned on most lakes for decades. Have only ever landed three fish trailing line, all of the rigs involved included line clips.