Having not visited a certain large gravel pit for sometime, I found myself on its banks again yesterday. Imagine my surprise when I peered down into its inky depths. The water was black. After a a brief investigation I discovered those floating rats, lead by the chief rat, the commodore, have completely killed over 100 acres of wonderful ecology. Apparently aquatic macrophytes make their utterly pointless past-time slightly inconvenient. Do those, who actually know, feel this type of unbelievable action damages the fishing, or the welfare of the fish?
In reply to Post #1
Floating Rats?
Commodore?
Sorry I've no idea what you're talking about.
Floating Rats?
Commodore?
Sorry I've no idea what you're talking about.
In reply to Post #2
Yacht club 😉
Yacht club 😉
In reply to Post #1
I couldn't think of anything worse, I do wonder on a 100 acre lake how the sailing club have got away with it as I would imagine NE wouldn't be best pleased they're bound to have some involvement on a body of water like that, I know they wouldn't allow it on one club water I'm on with a sailing club hence why their only resolve is to get a weed cutting boat in and cut a circuit around the lake so the sailing boats keels and rudders are not getting bound up in the weed as it reaches the surface, mind you it's the only time NE are of any use.
Make the most of it if NE get their way there will be less carp to fish for as they're trying to get it passed that all carp are removed from sssi's and that's the thin edge of the wedge.
Edit: the whole of the cotswold water park is now ssi status.
I couldn't think of anything worse, I do wonder on a 100 acre lake how the sailing club have got away with it as I would imagine NE wouldn't be best pleased they're bound to have some involvement on a body of water like that, I know they wouldn't allow it on one club water I'm on with a sailing club hence why their only resolve is to get a weed cutting boat in and cut a circuit around the lake so the sailing boats keels and rudders are not getting bound up in the weed as it reaches the surface, mind you it's the only time NE are of any use.
Make the most of it if NE get their way there will be less carp to fish for as they're trying to get it passed that all carp are removed from sssi's and that's the thin edge of the wedge.
Edit: the whole of the cotswold water park is now ssi status.
I have seen personally at first hand the effects of lake dye,or Dyofix on two small fisheries, it killed some the weed,but the stuff that remained started to breakdown and made actual catching of fish very hard..it looked awful ,the colour of the water.
My relation was a member of a lake with a sailing club,the sailing committee,got the dosage wrong, the lake virtually died its ecosystem ruined,the fishing also died,lots of members left,the fish didn't perish, just became impossible to catch I was told. ..
But thats what the sailing club wanted ,they got what they wanted,no anglers,using a chemical to achieve their end..
Remember,today as we are seeing, not just in angling,it's control,full control of many aspects of your entirety,all planned,and now in evidence.
Remember this word..
Phosphates,...👎
My relation was a member of a lake with a sailing club,the sailing committee,got the dosage wrong, the lake virtually died its ecosystem ruined,the fishing also died,lots of members left,the fish didn't perish, just became impossible to catch I was told. ..
But thats what the sailing club wanted ,they got what they wanted,no anglers,using a chemical to achieve their end..
Remember,today as we are seeing, not just in angling,it's control,full control of many aspects of your entirety,all planned,and now in evidence.
Remember this word..
Phosphates,...👎
In reply to Post #5
Is that the end of fishing in the water park?
Is that the end of fishing in the water park?
Kinda on the fence over this dye stuff.
A few years ago I hated the stuff but I have since seen it used to very good effect. One gravel pit I know suffered very badly with algae, the fish became even more tricky than usual, and they looked awful (pale due to the colour of the water and were dropping in weight too). Fast forward a few years and the dye has really sorted it out. It hasn't killed the weed, just controlled it (I think the dye has to be used sensibly which is where some other waters fall down). The fish have darkened up big time due to the clarity (you can tell the dye has been used but the water aint dark blue like some other waters I've seen). Growth rates gone through the roof (not sure why but there's certainly no more bait going in). You can see the carp are healthier and happier. Has it improved the water? Yes.
I know another water that gets badly affected by algae, dangerously so in fact. I'd love for it to be treated sensibly, but it's not gonna happen for various reasons.
So essentially I believe it can used to improve certain waters for algae reasons.
Completely disagree with it being used for removal of weed.
A few years ago I hated the stuff but I have since seen it used to very good effect. One gravel pit I know suffered very badly with algae, the fish became even more tricky than usual, and they looked awful (pale due to the colour of the water and were dropping in weight too). Fast forward a few years and the dye has really sorted it out. It hasn't killed the weed, just controlled it (I think the dye has to be used sensibly which is where some other waters fall down). The fish have darkened up big time due to the clarity (you can tell the dye has been used but the water aint dark blue like some other waters I've seen). Growth rates gone through the roof (not sure why but there's certainly no more bait going in). You can see the carp are healthier and happier. Has it improved the water? Yes.
I know another water that gets badly affected by algae, dangerously so in fact. I'd love for it to be treated sensibly, but it's not gonna happen for various reasons.
So essentially I believe it can used to improve certain waters for algae reasons.
Completely disagree with it being used for removal of weed.
In reply to Post #7
Could be Adam and a lot of other lakes if NE get their way I was listening to a podcast a while ago now that Mark Bryant of Baitworks and Mike Holly put out they have Jamie Cook from the Angling Trust on every now and then with updates of things going on.
One of them Jamie Cook mentioned that Natural England are trying to get it passed that carp are removed from all SSSi sites (like I said thin edge of the wedge) the whole of the water park was given status recently last year or two I think slipped through and so was the agenda of carp removal by Natural England if they get it that's a lot of carp to be removed, he mentioned one such lake it had already happened.
A quick google and it starts to become reality NE are starting to get a bit busy with it.
Hatchet Ponds LINK
LINK
Could be Adam and a lot of other lakes if NE get their way I was listening to a podcast a while ago now that Mark Bryant of Baitworks and Mike Holly put out they have Jamie Cook from the Angling Trust on every now and then with updates of things going on.
One of them Jamie Cook mentioned that Natural England are trying to get it passed that carp are removed from all SSSi sites (like I said thin edge of the wedge) the whole of the water park was given status recently last year or two I think slipped through and so was the agenda of carp removal by Natural England if they get it that's a lot of carp to be removed, he mentioned one such lake it had already happened.
A quick google and it starts to become reality NE are starting to get a bit busy with it.
Hatchet Ponds LINK
LINK
In reply to Post #9
Yes..
And I'd take this a little but further, the long game is this Green agenda,what I believe is ..covert,usherd in under many guises and lies..
Rewilding
Phosphates
SSI..
I have long known that Natural England and the rewinding community are amongst anglings biggest enemies..
We have seen it already..Otters..,Beavers in Scotland,now in England..
Remember it's the Green agenda..
Yes..
And I'd take this a little but further, the long game is this Green agenda,what I believe is ..covert,usherd in under many guises and lies..
Rewilding
Phosphates
SSI..
I have long known that Natural England and the rewinding community are amongst anglings biggest enemies..
We have seen it already..Otters..,Beavers in Scotland,now in England..
Remember it's the Green agenda..
In reply to Post #8
I could not agree any more Yonny!
I was exactly the same, I thought the stuff was the work of the devil. The reality, is in fact so very different. The blue dye is actually incredibly great stuff for the welfare of our precious carp! I have seen a correlation, between this stuff being applied... And suddenly the pit doing bites within 12 hours... Not once.... But twice this year on a pit that only done 4 bites all of last year.
I have watched with my own eyes... This stuff kill an active algae bloom this year. Knock it on the head and actually stop it in its tracks. If you look at the weed on my rod tops... Let me tell you out in that pit.... The weed is still 8 feet deep in 12 foot of water. All it does is controls the weed a touch when used properly. It just stops it from reaching the surface. The water remains crystal clear all year.
Blue dye would have saved the Black mirror and the rest in the Mere if applied in time.... And that's a fact.
If any of you fish a pit, which suffers a very dangerous algae bloom.... Blue dye is your friend... Not your enemy.
Trust me.
I could not agree any more Yonny!
I was exactly the same, I thought the stuff was the work of the devil. The reality, is in fact so very different. The blue dye is actually incredibly great stuff for the welfare of our precious carp! I have seen a correlation, between this stuff being applied... And suddenly the pit doing bites within 12 hours... Not once.... But twice this year on a pit that only done 4 bites all of last year.
I have watched with my own eyes... This stuff kill an active algae bloom this year. Knock it on the head and actually stop it in its tracks. If you look at the weed on my rod tops... Let me tell you out in that pit.... The weed is still 8 feet deep in 12 foot of water. All it does is controls the weed a touch when used properly. It just stops it from reaching the surface. The water remains crystal clear all year.
Blue dye would have saved the Black mirror and the rest in the Mere if applied in time.... And that's a fact.
If any of you fish a pit, which suffers a very dangerous algae bloom.... Blue dye is your friend... Not your enemy.
Trust me.
In reply to Post #11
I believe if considered correctly In the right waters applied in the right quantity I can see it would have benefits especially with depths of 8 to 12 feet or more and definitely for the algae blooms, in the wrong water and application possibly not, I was on a thirty odd acre lake years ago average of 4 to 6 feet deep the odd 7 foot spot when they did this it killed the weed in fact killed everything the weed turned to a black mush on the bottom absolutely stank and the fishing died a death it had no real adverse affect on the fish but barely a carp got caught for following 18 months or more before it started to get back somewhere near normal.
I believe if considered correctly In the right waters applied in the right quantity I can see it would have benefits especially with depths of 8 to 12 feet or more and definitely for the algae blooms, in the wrong water and application possibly not, I was on a thirty odd acre lake years ago average of 4 to 6 feet deep the odd 7 foot spot when they did this it killed the weed in fact killed everything the weed turned to a black mush on the bottom absolutely stank and the fishing died a death it had no real adverse affect on the fish but barely a carp got caught for following 18 months or more before it started to get back somewhere near normal.
In reply to Post #12
Sounds like they used too much. Too much and you prevent sunlight from penetrating to a depth that will foster weed growth. I think it's very easy to over-do.
Blue dye would have saved the Black mirror and the rest in the Mere if applied in time.... And that's a fact.
Exactly this Mark
Sounds like they used too much. Too much and you prevent sunlight from penetrating to a depth that will foster weed growth. I think it's very easy to over-do.
Blue dye would have saved the Black mirror and the rest in the Mere if applied in time.... And that's a fact.
Exactly this Mark
In reply to Post #12
As Yonny said that lake has been done with something terribly wrong mate.
Theale lagoon is a very shallow pit. That bit in front of me is 12 foot... But at a rough guess... Over 200 acres of the pit is under 6 foot. Over 100 acres of the pit is under 4 foot. That's why it gets so weedy.
All of it has lush weed growth harbouring an abundance of natural food. Look how blue the water is from the dye the day after it is applied.
The fish are growing at an absolutely incredible rate.
As Yonny said that lake has been done with something terribly wrong mate.
Theale lagoon is a very shallow pit. That bit in front of me is 12 foot... But at a rough guess... Over 200 acres of the pit is under 6 foot. Over 100 acres of the pit is under 4 foot. That's why it gets so weedy.
All of it has lush weed growth harbouring an abundance of natural food. Look how blue the water is from the dye the day after it is applied.
The fish are growing at an absolutely incredible rate.
In reply to Post #9
I would take a different view of the CWP situation.
my understanding is that the new SSSI status for the whole water park (1 or 2 lakes excluded) is a pointless paper exercise.
I've seen ALL the relevant paperwork from NE as I run a fishery in the CWP that has been an SSSI since 1995 -when 15 lakes were first designated.
When my lake was first designated, English Nature (as was) attempted to reduce my carp stock by stopping me doing any restocking. It was apparent that they knew less about ‘Fisheries' than I did. Eventually a compromise was reached such that I could restock to maintain my existing (40 odd) fish.
Since 1995, EN/NE have been an absolute waste of space. Strict rules, no grants, few if any site visits and an unrealistic expectation that lake owners would nurture their sites based on goodwill alone ! Rules that restricted my ability to make money from the site, and no incentives to improve it......
The new rules ‘say' (NE's words, not mine) that ALL lakes can carry on doing what they were doing before the recent designation; and yet still have SSSI status. That sounds impossible to me.
Furthermore from a personal perspective it makes my life harder because now we have a 2 tier SSSI with the 1995 lakes (still) working to the old strict rules and the remaining (majority) doing what they have done for the intervening 25 years (following EA stocking rules). That is manifestly unfair to the 1995 lake owners.
What they should have done was design a new set of ‘rules' for the entire CWP. Instead they are asking each lake to submit a list of the activities that they have been doing and NE will ‘licence' those. How long that process will take, I have no idea........I Suspect a very longtime. NE mention lake visits...are they having a laugh, they don't have the resource to visit all the lakes anytime soon.
NE don't have the budget to administer this new SSSI (they couldn't manage it when there were only 15 lakes involved) so what is going to happen from here on in is anybody's guess.
From a purely carp perspective, Ive seen nothing to suggest any plans to demand the removal of any fish from lakes in the CWP. So that is the good news.
The bad news is that the new system appears un-workable to me - and more importantly I don't understand the NE agenda. Until I do, I will carry on refusing to cooperate with these new plans.
I would take a different view of the CWP situation.
my understanding is that the new SSSI status for the whole water park (1 or 2 lakes excluded) is a pointless paper exercise.
I've seen ALL the relevant paperwork from NE as I run a fishery in the CWP that has been an SSSI since 1995 -when 15 lakes were first designated.
When my lake was first designated, English Nature (as was) attempted to reduce my carp stock by stopping me doing any restocking. It was apparent that they knew less about ‘Fisheries' than I did. Eventually a compromise was reached such that I could restock to maintain my existing (40 odd) fish.
Since 1995, EN/NE have been an absolute waste of space. Strict rules, no grants, few if any site visits and an unrealistic expectation that lake owners would nurture their sites based on goodwill alone ! Rules that restricted my ability to make money from the site, and no incentives to improve it......
The new rules ‘say' (NE's words, not mine) that ALL lakes can carry on doing what they were doing before the recent designation; and yet still have SSSI status. That sounds impossible to me.
Furthermore from a personal perspective it makes my life harder because now we have a 2 tier SSSI with the 1995 lakes (still) working to the old strict rules and the remaining (majority) doing what they have done for the intervening 25 years (following EA stocking rules). That is manifestly unfair to the 1995 lake owners.
What they should have done was design a new set of ‘rules' for the entire CWP. Instead they are asking each lake to submit a list of the activities that they have been doing and NE will ‘licence' those. How long that process will take, I have no idea........I Suspect a very longtime. NE mention lake visits...are they having a laugh, they don't have the resource to visit all the lakes anytime soon.
NE don't have the budget to administer this new SSSI (they couldn't manage it when there were only 15 lakes involved) so what is going to happen from here on in is anybody's guess.
From a purely carp perspective, Ive seen nothing to suggest any plans to demand the removal of any fish from lakes in the CWP. So that is the good news.
The bad news is that the new system appears un-workable to me - and more importantly I don't understand the NE agenda. Until I do, I will carry on refusing to cooperate with these new plans.
In reply to Post #15
That's good info Squimp,interesting..
Here's what I know about phosphates,and it's not much,but I always do my research..
So..I've a farming friend, sheep ,cattle etc..they've a big bungalow and want to build a room onto an established farm building,the building is very old..
They live no where near a river,yet this small building proposal has been refused ,as phosphates could enter the river,the river is the Camel,which is five miles away,..and the land is shaped,that it could never enter the river system anyway..
I don't understand this,neither does anyone else..
Maybe someone could kick start my phosphate education and say what this means..?
That's good info Squimp,interesting..
Here's what I know about phosphates,and it's not much,but I always do my research..
So..I've a farming friend, sheep ,cattle etc..they've a big bungalow and want to build a room onto an established farm building,the building is very old..
They live no where near a river,yet this small building proposal has been refused ,as phosphates could enter the river,the river is the Camel,which is five miles away,..and the land is shaped,that it could never enter the river system anyway..
I don't understand this,neither does anyone else..
Maybe someone could kick start my phosphate education and say what this means..?