I'm contemplating using a shock leader for the first time in 30+ years to achieve greater distance on a particular water I'm fishing. So the question I have is if your mainline fails above the shock leader knot, I can't see how your rig tubing and lead can slide over the shock leader knot.
Am I just being thick or is there an easy way to make this safe? I thought about just a naked lead clip, no tubing, as this will maybe slide over a knot. But not really keen on this idea as the tubing provides some protection to stop removing fish scales during the fight.
Your thoughts welcome.
Am I just being thick or is there an easy way to make this safe? I thought about just a naked lead clip, no tubing, as this will maybe slide over a knot. But not really keen on this idea as the tubing provides some protection to stop removing fish scales during the fight.
Your thoughts welcome.
In reply to Post #1
Imo if using leaders then they must be on a Heli setup, with the lead not dropping. It's the only way to minimise the chance of a fish towing a leader around . With a clip of running setup that isn't possible as the hooklink is tied to the leader and not running along it
Imo if using leaders then they must be on a Heli setup, with the lead not dropping. It's the only way to minimise the chance of a fish towing a leader around . With a clip of running setup that isn't possible as the hooklink is tied to the leader and not running along it
You could always use a tapered main line
In reply to Post #1
Good luck trying to get the shock leader line to go through the tubing in the first instance
Good luck trying to get the shock leader line to go through the tubing in the first instance
In reply to Post #1
A lead clip set up should always be fixed, it shouldn't be going anywhere near a leader knot so not sure how you're intending to set it up.
As mentioned your safest option is a heli set up with a fixed lead, and no-trace top bead.
A lead clip set up should always be fixed, it shouldn't be going anywhere near a leader knot so not sure how you're intending to set it up.
As mentioned your safest option is a heli set up with a fixed lead, and no-trace top bead.
As nobody uses light hooklinks anymore, IMO shock leaders can never really be ‘safe'.
They're ok in theory on a heli set up with lead on but it has a long way to eject from the line and if you're using nylon (which if you're contemplating using no tubing you must be) the knot could be a problem for a swivel to pass.
Another compromise people are making to benefit themselves and their results
They're ok in theory on a heli set up with lead on but it has a long way to eject from the line and if you're using nylon (which if you're contemplating using no tubing you must be) the knot could be a problem for a swivel to pass.
Another compromise people are making to benefit themselves and their results
In reply to Post #6
IMO shock leaders can never really be ‘safe'
That's the reality. Saying that, there is an element of risk with everything that we do. It's down to the angler to appreciate this and ensure he is fishing as safe as he can be for me
A run rig on braid would probably be as safe as but good luck casting that without a tangle to the horizon, probably need a stiff link
Helicopter, it's the knot that that the problem and Fluoro or mono leaders can leave massive knots, blob of blanket weed on that and they are not as safe as some people think
Lead clip drops the lead but the clip must be pinned!
IMO shock leaders can never really be ‘safe'
That's the reality. Saying that, there is an element of risk with everything that we do. It's down to the angler to appreciate this and ensure he is fishing as safe as he can be for me
A run rig on braid would probably be as safe as but good luck casting that without a tangle to the horizon, probably need a stiff link
Helicopter, it's the knot that that the problem and Fluoro or mono leaders can leave massive knots, blob of blanket weed on that and they are not as safe as some people think
Lead clip drops the lead but the clip must be pinned!
In reply to Post #1
In reality, a crack off will lead to the leader not being straight and in a tangled mess, rendering it useless for a heli hook link to ever make it off the leader, This can also be the case with straight through mono or braid... There's always a risk putting out any rig configuration.. If using shockleaders, the only way to mitigate down the risk is to use real baits and avoid plastics so the rig is not fishing until the hook rusts away.. And the biggest safety factor would be the ability to retrieve the rig if lost, either boating out or reporting to a bailiff... Not always possible I know...
If using a shockleader reduces the amount of crack offs or cut offs etc, in the big picture it's safer as less tackle lost... Risk can only be assessed by the user, And there is no definitive super safe set up.. Lots of people will have many different opinions, this is mine... There is no shame in losing end tackle occasionally it happens to us all, it's the steps you take afterwards to minimise possible effects to fish and bird life...
In reality, a crack off will lead to the leader not being straight and in a tangled mess, rendering it useless for a heli hook link to ever make it off the leader, This can also be the case with straight through mono or braid... There's always a risk putting out any rig configuration.. If using shockleaders, the only way to mitigate down the risk is to use real baits and avoid plastics so the rig is not fishing until the hook rusts away.. And the biggest safety factor would be the ability to retrieve the rig if lost, either boating out or reporting to a bailiff... Not always possible I know...
If using a shockleader reduces the amount of crack offs or cut offs etc, in the big picture it's safer as less tackle lost... Risk can only be assessed by the user, And there is no definitive super safe set up.. Lots of people will have many different opinions, this is mine... There is no shame in losing end tackle occasionally it happens to us all, it's the steps you take afterwards to minimise possible effects to fish and bird life...
In reply to Post #7
You could only use a run ring on braid with a 1m+ mono hook link or initial 1m+ leader.
The truth is it's not a good idea however you look at it unless you use material that simply won't break and have the use of a boat.. in which case you should be dropping the rigs and not have potential death traps out.
If you're casting a spod, marker or lead in a field.. great
But while it's great for fishing off the beach where the fish are expendable, you're basically saying your success is of more importance than somebody's business assets. Which is what it comes down to, because you can forget fish welfare. People don't give two hoots about the fish and most of them are pellet fed slop pond genetic mistake inbred ****bags anyway
You could only use a run ring on braid with a 1m+ mono hook link or initial 1m+ leader.
The truth is it's not a good idea however you look at it unless you use material that simply won't break and have the use of a boat.. in which case you should be dropping the rigs and not have potential death traps out.
If you're casting a spod, marker or lead in a field.. great
But while it's great for fishing off the beach where the fish are expendable, you're basically saying your success is of more importance than somebody's business assets. Which is what it comes down to, because you can forget fish welfare. People don't give two hoots about the fish and most of them are pellet fed slop pond genetic mistake inbred ****bags anyway
In reply to Post #9
So what would you recommend then? and what is your current setup?
I've used a few different set ups over the years and the leader knot Is the problem for me. A helicopter made with say, 50lb sinking armour braid, would take some beating for me from a fish safety perspective, losing the rig altogether and just left with the hook, hooklink and swivel, providing the bead comes off and the swivel can ride over the silicone and leader knot and the bead can ride over the leader knot!!!
A lead clip would leave the fish towing a hook, hooklink, leadclip and leader, lead gone, hopefully!
Said it before on here, there was a thread a long time ago about snag fishing, lots of falling out and different opinions but in the end the general consensus was a run rig on a braid snag leader was the safest option. This set up is prone to tangles at range for me though
So what would you recommend then? and what is your current setup?
I've used a few different set ups over the years and the leader knot Is the problem for me. A helicopter made with say, 50lb sinking armour braid, would take some beating for me from a fish safety perspective, losing the rig altogether and just left with the hook, hooklink and swivel, providing the bead comes off and the swivel can ride over the silicone and leader knot and the bead can ride over the leader knot!!!
A lead clip would leave the fish towing a hook, hooklink, leadclip and leader, lead gone, hopefully!
Said it before on here, there was a thread a long time ago about snag fishing, lots of falling out and different opinions but in the end the general consensus was a run rig on a braid snag leader was the safest option. This set up is prone to tangles at range for me though
In reply to Post #10
Tapered mainline I suppose if I had to do it. But I have no interest in fishing at that distance without a boat.
I use 50-65lb power pro to a 1m-ish 30-40lb mono/fluoro or leadcore leader with helicopter rigs.
Running rigs straight on fluoro or mono depending on range and line presentation, never a leader.
Every bit of metal, plastic or knot is a hindrance really. You need a weight to get to the fish and as an anchor point for indication (with a running lead) but really free lining is the least prone to failure and picking up debris.
I also use 8 or 10lb mono hook links quite a lot, with a bottom bait or stiff pop up type affair tied on.
If there's any doubt about safety in a certain swim or spot for whatever reason it's probably fair to say you should find a safer way to approach it.
Comes down to if you care about your surroundings and want to catch some fish along the way.. or engage is dick measuring competitions watching each other needlessly casting into oblivion.
Tapered mainline I suppose if I had to do it. But I have no interest in fishing at that distance without a boat.
I use 50-65lb power pro to a 1m-ish 30-40lb mono/fluoro or leadcore leader with helicopter rigs.
Running rigs straight on fluoro or mono depending on range and line presentation, never a leader.
Every bit of metal, plastic or knot is a hindrance really. You need a weight to get to the fish and as an anchor point for indication (with a running lead) but really free lining is the least prone to failure and picking up debris.
I also use 8 or 10lb mono hook links quite a lot, with a bottom bait or stiff pop up type affair tied on.
If there's any doubt about safety in a certain swim or spot for whatever reason it's probably fair to say you should find a safer way to approach it.
Comes down to if you care about your surroundings and want to catch some fish along the way.. or engage is dick measuring competitions watching each other needlessly casting into oblivion.
In reply to Post #11
Never used a tapered mainline but it sounds like a good idea. Used the ESP tapered leaders in the past
People will fish shock leaders, I suppose there is enough information on tackle manufacturers websites to give people a heads up. If I had a fishery I would be setting the rules though, dangerous things in the wrong hands and through my learning over the years, i have fished dangerous set ups on reflection. Like you said, most of it comes from sea fishing and a mahin knot in 45lb mono leaves a massive knot, try getting a swivel over that!!!. That does not include line picking up on the knot and cracking off either, that's the major concern from a casting perspective
For me I would recommend what I said below, braid, to have the smallest knot possible if anything is going to slide over it. There seems to be a lot of people using lead clips and shock leaders though nowadays too?
Braid in a fishing situation i do not like it, i guess most then attach this to a shop bought leader, again, the knot and connection is paramount if things are expected to slide over it
50lb armour cord sinking and 2 foot of lead free is what I would use now on a helicopter set up with a no trace bead if I was tying shock leaders
The lead clip one is worth thinking about for anybody planning on using them, the lead is ditched but the fish is trailing a lot of bits and pieces...
Is just ditching the lead they key, is this enough to give a fish a fighting chance?
There a risks with everything, the question is, which risks do you want to take
Don't use any unless it is absolutely well and truly necessary would be my advise
Never used a tapered mainline but it sounds like a good idea. Used the ESP tapered leaders in the past
People will fish shock leaders, I suppose there is enough information on tackle manufacturers websites to give people a heads up. If I had a fishery I would be setting the rules though, dangerous things in the wrong hands and through my learning over the years, i have fished dangerous set ups on reflection. Like you said, most of it comes from sea fishing and a mahin knot in 45lb mono leaves a massive knot, try getting a swivel over that!!!. That does not include line picking up on the knot and cracking off either, that's the major concern from a casting perspective
For me I would recommend what I said below, braid, to have the smallest knot possible if anything is going to slide over it. There seems to be a lot of people using lead clips and shock leaders though nowadays too?
Braid in a fishing situation i do not like it, i guess most then attach this to a shop bought leader, again, the knot and connection is paramount if things are expected to slide over it
50lb armour cord sinking and 2 foot of lead free is what I would use now on a helicopter set up with a no trace bead if I was tying shock leaders
The lead clip one is worth thinking about for anybody planning on using them, the lead is ditched but the fish is trailing a lot of bits and pieces...
Is just ditching the lead they key, is this enough to give a fish a fighting chance?
There a risks with everything, the question is, which risks do you want to take
Don't use any unless it is absolutely well and truly necessary would be my advise
Thanks for all the advice, you've persuaded me to ditch the idea!! Mainline straight through, though I may look at tapered mainline in the future.
In reply to Post #12
For.me the leader has to go, using a clip isnt safe. Nice big loop swivel on a Heli to go over any knot has to be the only way to leave a fish the best chance of trailing nothing but the hooklink
For.me the leader has to go, using a clip isnt safe. Nice big loop swivel on a Heli to go over any knot has to be the only way to leave a fish the best chance of trailing nothing but the hooklink
In reply to Post #13
Good to discuss Dave
Think we have covered a few options
Good to discuss Dave
Think we have covered a few options