Are neoprene gas cannister sleeves worth having? Do they really work?
In reply to Post #1
The Ridgemonkey electric ones work well, keeps the bottle burning right to the end.
Can't imagine normal ones make any difference.
The Ridgemonkey electric ones work well, keeps the bottle burning right to the end.
Can't imagine normal ones make any difference.
In reply to Post #2
agree about the ridgemonkey one
the others actually make the cooker performance worse as the gas / liquid needs heat to expand as it leaves the bottle. the idea that the covers keep the can warm & stop it getting cold is wrong - the gas makes it cold & the cover prevents it from warming up.
I still have one though - it's somewhere to keep my spoon & dulls the noise of my bashing the can if I move it about on the bank.
agree about the ridgemonkey one
the others actually make the cooker performance worse as the gas / liquid needs heat to expand as it leaves the bottle. the idea that the covers keep the can warm & stop it getting cold is wrong - the gas makes it cold & the cover prevents it from warming up.
I still have one though - it's somewhere to keep my spoon & dulls the noise of my bashing the can if I move it about on the bank.
In reply to Post #3
+1
& it depends on your stove, if you have the ability to burn liquid gas it makes no difference at all in my experience.
+1
& it depends on your stove, if you have the ability to burn liquid gas it makes no difference at all in my experience.
In reply to Post #1
I bought one to use with a heated drinks mat. It took a while to warm up and the USB plug started to get hot, so junked it. As others have pointed out a cover on it's own works against you and actually cools the cannister whilst the stove is running. The covers I've seen are to fit the Coleman cannisters so others may not fit.
I bought one to use with a heated drinks mat. It took a while to warm up and the USB plug started to get hot, so junked it. As others have pointed out a cover on it's own works against you and actually cools the cannister whilst the stove is running. The covers I've seen are to fit the Coleman cannisters so others may not fit.
I used to work in the Chemical Industry and we used to use 880kg Chlorine drums on one process. Although they were sat on scales, you didn't really need them as you could see the ice level on the outside of the drum that decreased in it's coverage as the Chlorine was used up. It's all down to some technical term called the Enthalpy of Vaporization, which basically means that as the Chlorine changes state from a liquid to a gas, it takes in heat from the outside and cools down.
If you were to insulate the cylinder by placing it in a jacket, the internal temperature would drop and gas pressure would reduce.
I've never used a USB heated jacket but it should work.
If you were to insulate the cylinder by placing it in a jacket, the internal temperature would drop and gas pressure would reduce.
I've never used a USB heated jacket but it should work.
In reply to Post #6
Yes that's exactly correct.
What I've never understood as a once avid hill walker & carp angler is why anglers buy gas stoves (propane/butane mix) that rely on gaseous fuel pressure to drive the burn in cold conditions
If you know you're going to be out in cold conditions why buy a stove that won't perform in them? Then to compound matters you try to fix a problem that doesn't need to exist by buying heated covers for gas cylinders....
There are plenty of stoves out there that perform well in cold conditions by burning liquid gas or liquid fuel yet still people buy stoves not up to the job
Horse & water springs to mind.
Edit, its not a problem though , the latest Fox video has reinvented the army stick burner...proper carpy...coming in camo 2 a store near you soon.
Yes that's exactly correct.
What I've never understood as a once avid hill walker & carp angler is why anglers buy gas stoves (propane/butane mix) that rely on gaseous fuel pressure to drive the burn in cold conditions
If you know you're going to be out in cold conditions why buy a stove that won't perform in them? Then to compound matters you try to fix a problem that doesn't need to exist by buying heated covers for gas cylinders....
There are plenty of stoves out there that perform well in cold conditions by burning liquid gas or liquid fuel yet still people buy stoves not up to the job
Horse & water springs to mind.
Edit, its not a problem though , the latest Fox video has reinvented the army stick burner...proper carpy...coming in camo 2 a store near you soon.
In reply to Post #1
Just another useless item of tat that you don't need. I loved my winter carping, far more than summer when it's busy. It does not matter how cold it gets. The gas always works. Even if slows right down. Once the stove is running for 30 seconds, pour just a tiny amount of the already warmed water on the side of the gas can from the kettle. It will warm the gas enough to make the stove more powerful. Repeat as the water gets hot and the stove will roar like it's summertime and boil normally.
I've never understood the silly gas neoprene covers and how they could possibly work. They are just insulating the cold in. Nothing else.
Good to hear it explained properly by people with knowledge on the subject below.
Just another useless item of tat that you don't need. I loved my winter carping, far more than summer when it's busy. It does not matter how cold it gets. The gas always works. Even if slows right down. Once the stove is running for 30 seconds, pour just a tiny amount of the already warmed water on the side of the gas can from the kettle. It will warm the gas enough to make the stove more powerful. Repeat as the water gets hot and the stove will roar like it's summertime and boil normally.
I've never understood the silly gas neoprene covers and how they could possibly work. They are just insulating the cold in. Nothing else.
Good to hear it explained properly by people with knowledge on the subject below.
In reply to Post #8
Thanks for that Mark. It was the gas slowing down whilst fishing last week that prompted my query.
Thanks to Vossy as well. Can you recommend me a stove like the ones you've described please.
Somebody gave me the stove I'm currently using so it's my first experience of it in action.
Thanks for that Mark. It was the gas slowing down whilst fishing last week that prompted my query.
Thanks to Vossy as well. Can you recommend me a stove like the ones you've described please.
Somebody gave me the stove I'm currently using so it's my first experience of it in action.
In reply to Post #9
Honestly, it's probably easier to do what Mark said. the reason your stove slowed down I assume is because you're using standard propane/butane gas. Propane vapourises at -42c Butane at -2c and given Butane changing state from liquid to gas causes a cooling of the cannister anywhere nearing freezing will cause that process to slow down.
I'm not sure if others do/did the same but I used to use the cannisters until they slowed down then just use a new cylinder, keeping the other part cylinder to use in warmer months, you'd end up with loads of part used cans. Nowaday they make a transfer device where you can transfer all those dregs into the one cylinder, or fill it. (its on the forum somewhere).
You can buy a really reliable Bullin T4 for silly money (very well regarded on the forum), whereas a decent MSR or Optimus isn't going to be cheap, but nows a good time to be looking on ebay, come the warmer weather they don't hang around. I prefer named brands as they tend to be servicable, cheaper stoves are not.
My stoves, MSR Dragonfly (liquid only), Optimus Vega (gas and liquid gas), Primus Omnilite Ti (gas & liquid fuels). My 1st Carping stove, Coleman Sportster (liquid).
The only down side to liquid fuel stoves is they can flare up on start up. Personally if fishing I use meths to pre heat as I don't want to illuminate the whole lake (meths burns with a blue flame).
Honestly, it's probably easier to do what Mark said. the reason your stove slowed down I assume is because you're using standard propane/butane gas. Propane vapourises at -42c Butane at -2c and given Butane changing state from liquid to gas causes a cooling of the cannister anywhere nearing freezing will cause that process to slow down.
I'm not sure if others do/did the same but I used to use the cannisters until they slowed down then just use a new cylinder, keeping the other part cylinder to use in warmer months, you'd end up with loads of part used cans. Nowaday they make a transfer device where you can transfer all those dregs into the one cylinder, or fill it. (its on the forum somewhere).
You can buy a really reliable Bullin T4 for silly money (very well regarded on the forum), whereas a decent MSR or Optimus isn't going to be cheap, but nows a good time to be looking on ebay, come the warmer weather they don't hang around. I prefer named brands as they tend to be servicable, cheaper stoves are not.
My stoves, MSR Dragonfly (liquid only), Optimus Vega (gas and liquid gas), Primus Omnilite Ti (gas & liquid fuels). My 1st Carping stove, Coleman Sportster (liquid).
The only down side to liquid fuel stoves is they can flare up on start up. Personally if fishing I use meths to pre heat as I don't want to illuminate the whole lake (meths burns with a blue flame).
In reply to Post #9
I've used a Chinese Bulin personally for more years than I can remember. Before that I had a Primus Gravity. Both have long hoses on.
If you are a bit crazy like myself, it's super easy to give the very bottom of the gas can a quick lick with the naked flame for one second, while still keeping the top part where the gas attaches tilted far away from any flame. That should only be done if you have a screw loose and should not really be recommended on the internet. But that is what I actually do 😂
It's never caused me any harm. Hot water works just as well though and no naked flames on gas cans. As you wash your cup out with a bit of hot water, chuck that water on the gas can.
The one thing I would never do is turn your gas can upside down. This pushes liquid gas through the stove. Unless you have a stove designed to run on liquid gas (like I'm certain Vossy will recommend) that's far more dangerous. It causes Bulins and similar to flare right up.
I've used a Chinese Bulin personally for more years than I can remember. Before that I had a Primus Gravity. Both have long hoses on.
If you are a bit crazy like myself, it's super easy to give the very bottom of the gas can a quick lick with the naked flame for one second, while still keeping the top part where the gas attaches tilted far away from any flame. That should only be done if you have a screw loose and should not really be recommended on the internet. But that is what I actually do 😂
It's never caused me any harm. Hot water works just as well though and no naked flames on gas cans. As you wash your cup out with a bit of hot water, chuck that water on the gas can.
The one thing I would never do is turn your gas can upside down. This pushes liquid gas through the stove. Unless you have a stove designed to run on liquid gas (like I'm certain Vossy will recommend) that's far more dangerous. It causes Bulins and similar to flare right up.
In reply to Post #11
"The one thing I would never do is turn your gas can upside down. This pushes liquid gas through the stove. Unless you have a stove designed to run on liquid gas (like I'm certain Vossy will recommend) that's far more dangerous. It causes Bulins and similar to flare right up."
Interesting to know, as I've done this a lot with my T4 when the cannister is getting low. Touchwood, no problems at all up to now. As I was a long term Coleman user I always use my stove well clear of my brolly though.
"The one thing I would never do is turn your gas can upside down. This pushes liquid gas through the stove. Unless you have a stove designed to run on liquid gas (like I'm certain Vossy will recommend) that's far more dangerous. It causes Bulins and similar to flare right up."
Interesting to know, as I've done this a lot with my T4 when the cannister is getting low. Touchwood, no problems at all up to now. As I was a long term Coleman user I always use my stove well clear of my brolly though.
In reply to Post #12
It's also the fastest way to block your stove up Ged. The only reason you are not seeing it flare is as you mentioned you are only doing it when the can is very low. If you try it when there is slightly more liquid in there it will flare up very dangerously. Better to use hot water or even a small lick from the stoves naked flame. Literally one second and swirl the can. The stove will roar. You are holding the can with your hand and never allowing it to get super hot. You're just warming the gas slightly.
The stoves that Vossy mentioned like the Dragonfly etc are all designed to run on liquid gas, not gas vapour like our Bulins and similar. You invert the gas can with them so liquid gas flows into the stove.
Lots of people do it when their gas gets low on Bulins etc not just you, but it's incredibly dangerous Ged. When you see one flare up the flames will shoot up 3 or 4 foot.
It's also the fastest way to block your stove up Ged. The only reason you are not seeing it flare is as you mentioned you are only doing it when the can is very low. If you try it when there is slightly more liquid in there it will flare up very dangerously. Better to use hot water or even a small lick from the stoves naked flame. Literally one second and swirl the can. The stove will roar. You are holding the can with your hand and never allowing it to get super hot. You're just warming the gas slightly.
The stoves that Vossy mentioned like the Dragonfly etc are all designed to run on liquid gas, not gas vapour like our Bulins and similar. You invert the gas can with them so liquid gas flows into the stove.
Lots of people do it when their gas gets low on Bulins etc not just you, but it's incredibly dangerous Ged. When you see one flare up the flames will shoot up 3 or 4 foot.
In reply to Post #13
The stoves that Vossy mentioned like the Dragonfly etc are all designed to run on liquid gas, not gas vapour like our Bulins and similar. You invert the gas can with them so liquid gas flows into the stove.
I stand to be corrected but that's not quite right.
MSR Dragonfly, Liquid fuels only not including gas at all.
Optimus Vega propane butane only, liquid or vapour.
Primus Omnilite, gas vapour and liquid fuels, can't remember but I don't think liquid propane/butane
Blocking of jets not a issue on MSR or Primus as jets can be cleaned or have shaker jets, you do however have to change the jets for different types of fuel.
The manuals mention white gas but that's a Americanism and doesn't mean propane/butane.
If my dragonfly can be run on p/b I'd never have bought the Omnilite, I'll have annoyed myself if it can
Edit, spot on re inverting the gas on a stove not designed to do it
The stoves that Vossy mentioned like the Dragonfly etc are all designed to run on liquid gas, not gas vapour like our Bulins and similar. You invert the gas can with them so liquid gas flows into the stove.
I stand to be corrected but that's not quite right.
MSR Dragonfly, Liquid fuels only not including gas at all.
Optimus Vega propane butane only, liquid or vapour.
Primus Omnilite, gas vapour and liquid fuels, can't remember but I don't think liquid propane/butane
Blocking of jets not a issue on MSR or Primus as jets can be cleaned or have shaker jets, you do however have to change the jets for different types of fuel.
The manuals mention white gas but that's a Americanism and doesn't mean propane/butane.
If my dragonfly can be run on p/b I'd never have bought the Omnilite, I'll have annoyed myself if it can
Edit, spot on re inverting the gas on a stove not designed to do it
In reply to Post #14
I think "white gas" is just petrol without additives, probably the same or very similar to Coleman fuel.
I think "white gas" is just petrol without additives, probably the same or very similar to Coleman fuel.
In reply to Post #14
No you will be 100% correct Vossy regarding that particular stove. I've never had one. I've always used the stoves mentioned or a Coleman.
But the stoves we all generally use, are not designed to have liquid gas run through them. Turning the can upside down is not the one. It's the same reason the cheaper longer canisters of gas meant for plumbers flare very badly when used with a Bulin etc when the can is still full when you lay them flat on their side.
No you will be 100% correct Vossy regarding that particular stove. I've never had one. I've always used the stoves mentioned or a Coleman.
But the stoves we all generally use, are not designed to have liquid gas run through them. Turning the can upside down is not the one. It's the same reason the cheaper longer canisters of gas meant for plumbers flare very badly when used with a Bulin etc when the can is still full when you lay them flat on their side.
For years, I have had a simple method for using "Gas" during the Winter months, regardless of how cold it gets, the water in the lake will always have a bit of warmth to it, even if its only 3 - 4C. I just fill a small bait bucket with water and drop the gas cannister in it,
When your cooking, the cannister does not freeze up and if you keep the bucket of water in your bivvy for the session, the air temperature will warm the water even more. Plus, I always cook on the lowest heat that I can.
As for inverting a "Gas Cannister", I have aways been against it as it seems a dangerous way to use one having done it once or twice accidently. But, I have to smile, I can recollect that Gerry would always advise people to invert the cannister, even with a Bullin.
Stoves I use, are Primus Omnifuel and Himalya, Hexy blocks and Gel burners, Trangia's and variants of and the Bulin.
My preferred cookers are my Primus's in the Winter or the Trangia's. The Primus is useful when it comes to pack up if the bivvy is wet or iced up, set it going with the bivvy door closed whilst you pack up outside and ice will soon melt and the bivvy will eventually dry if you leave it long enough.
Trangia's in Winter can take a while to warm up before you can start cooking. Just use a "Preheater", Trangia sell them. but they are expensive for what they are. I just use the bottom half of a shoe polish tin, just put a tiny bit of paper or tree bark in, a couple of drops of meths on top of it and no more and light and put it under the Trangia burner. Within seconds the Trangia will be blazing away and you can start cooking straight away. But do not put too much fuel in the preheater otherwise it takes a long time to burn out and the Trangia is like a jet engine on steroids. You only need the preheater to burn for not more than a minute if that.
>>>I think "white gas" is just petrol without additives, probably the same or very similar to Coleman fuel.<<<
"White Gas", similar to Coleman Fuel is Naptha, or Napthalene. Also known as "Panel Wipe". I buy it in gallon tins to use in my Primus's instead of Aspen 4 sometimes, but, there is two different types of Panel Wipe... and at the moment thanks to "Brain Fog" from Covid. I cannot remember what the difference is, one might be Napthalene and the other Cellulose based which is no good.
When your cooking, the cannister does not freeze up and if you keep the bucket of water in your bivvy for the session, the air temperature will warm the water even more. Plus, I always cook on the lowest heat that I can.
As for inverting a "Gas Cannister", I have aways been against it as it seems a dangerous way to use one having done it once or twice accidently. But, I have to smile, I can recollect that Gerry would always advise people to invert the cannister, even with a Bullin.
Stoves I use, are Primus Omnifuel and Himalya, Hexy blocks and Gel burners, Trangia's and variants of and the Bulin.
My preferred cookers are my Primus's in the Winter or the Trangia's. The Primus is useful when it comes to pack up if the bivvy is wet or iced up, set it going with the bivvy door closed whilst you pack up outside and ice will soon melt and the bivvy will eventually dry if you leave it long enough.
Trangia's in Winter can take a while to warm up before you can start cooking. Just use a "Preheater", Trangia sell them. but they are expensive for what they are. I just use the bottom half of a shoe polish tin, just put a tiny bit of paper or tree bark in, a couple of drops of meths on top of it and no more and light and put it under the Trangia burner. Within seconds the Trangia will be blazing away and you can start cooking straight away. But do not put too much fuel in the preheater otherwise it takes a long time to burn out and the Trangia is like a jet engine on steroids. You only need the preheater to burn for not more than a minute if that.
>>>I think "white gas" is just petrol without additives, probably the same or very similar to Coleman fuel.<<<
"White Gas", similar to Coleman Fuel is Naptha, or Napthalene. Also known as "Panel Wipe". I buy it in gallon tins to use in my Primus's instead of Aspen 4 sometimes, but, there is two different types of Panel Wipe... and at the moment thanks to "Brain Fog" from Covid. I cannot remember what the difference is, one might be Napthalene and the other Cellulose based which is no good.
Not all gas canisters have the same gas in them & using different brands can affect how your stove performs at lower temperatures.
Gases are usually butane, propane, isobutane or a mixture of them & the exact make up will be written on the can. Different blends have different properties - amount of gas in the can, optimum temp for usage & volatility etc. As mentioned, propane vaporizes at the lowest temp so if you're fishing in the cold, look for a blend that has a higher propane content. Builders gas canisters have a different blend to most camping gas companies.
If you are uncomfortable applying direct heat from a flame or boiling water on a can then consider using the cheap little disposable packets of handwarmer/ foot warmer that heat up when exposed to the air. One of these under your gas canister will keep it going in the coldest temps & can last for over 8 hours although they're definitely at their hottest during the first 3-4 hours. They work on exposure to oxygen in the air so don't place it inside a neoprene cover as that will starve it of oxygen & it won't get as warm.
Gases are usually butane, propane, isobutane or a mixture of them & the exact make up will be written on the can. Different blends have different properties - amount of gas in the can, optimum temp for usage & volatility etc. As mentioned, propane vaporizes at the lowest temp so if you're fishing in the cold, look for a blend that has a higher propane content. Builders gas canisters have a different blend to most camping gas companies.
If you are uncomfortable applying direct heat from a flame or boiling water on a can then consider using the cheap little disposable packets of handwarmer/ foot warmer that heat up when exposed to the air. One of these under your gas canister will keep it going in the coldest temps & can last for over 8 hours although they're definitely at their hottest during the first 3-4 hours. They work on exposure to oxygen in the air so don't place it inside a neoprene cover as that will starve it of oxygen & it won't get as warm.
Turning the can upside down will depend on your stove too.
The reason for the flare up is the amount of fuel being burnt. Most are designed to burn the fuel as a gas but if you turn it upside down you are forcing a liquid into the burner which is highly concentrated fuel so will burn more. Some stoves actually have a preheating pipe that goes up through the flame which ensures that liquid won't make it to the burner - I think the primes easyfuel is an example.
If you are still struggling with cold, look for the multi can adapters & run your stove off of a couple of cans. 2 cans require half the heat for the gas to expand so will not cool as quickly.
The reason for the flare up is the amount of fuel being burnt. Most are designed to burn the fuel as a gas but if you turn it upside down you are forcing a liquid into the burner which is highly concentrated fuel so will burn more. Some stoves actually have a preheating pipe that goes up through the flame which ensures that liquid won't make it to the burner - I think the primes easyfuel is an example.
If you are still struggling with cold, look for the multi can adapters & run your stove off of a couple of cans. 2 cans require half the heat for the gas to expand so will not cool as quickly.
If you don't camouflage your gas canister the carp will spot it and you won't catch anything. It's very simple. I've gone one step further and actually use a hollowed out log to disguise mine.
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