What one ingredient wouldn't you do without in your basemixes?
In reply to Post #1
Difficult question as there are three ingredients that are in nearly all my mixes, liver, yeast and milk protein. If I have to pick one I'd say liver.
Difficult question as there are three ingredients that are in nearly all my mixes, liver, yeast and milk protein. If I have to pick one I'd say liver.
Pre digested fishmeal probably.
In reply to Post #3
Fishmeal
Fishmeal
In reply to Post #1
Confidence
Confidence
In reply to Post #1
Just to be different to everyone else I'm gonna say CLO
Just to be different to everyone else I'm gonna say CLO
In reply to Post #5
Nice. Can you send me some?
Nice. Can you send me some?
Scopex.
In reply to Post #1
It's a good question - in the old days very easy to answer as many mixes were based on similar bulk ingredients and as such go to additions were easy to match. (Robin red, nut meals etc.) I think nowadays it's so much harder, because you can be tempted to throw the kitchen sink at it, as opposed to compliment your mix.
I love liver powder, but to me it struggles alongside some flavours, mixes and enhancers. The same with GLM brilliant, but sometimes it battles other labels you want in the bait.
If I had to include something in every bait, it would be a powdered pallatant like the old MilkB and also a sweetener as I think this can ‘knock the corners' off a lot of flavours. Butric is another obvious one, but horrible stuff and I have neither the time nor inclination to test optimum levels.
It's a good question - in the old days very easy to answer as many mixes were based on similar bulk ingredients and as such go to additions were easy to match. (Robin red, nut meals etc.) I think nowadays it's so much harder, because you can be tempted to throw the kitchen sink at it, as opposed to compliment your mix.
I love liver powder, but to me it struggles alongside some flavours, mixes and enhancers. The same with GLM brilliant, but sometimes it battles other labels you want in the bait.
If I had to include something in every bait, it would be a powdered pallatant like the old MilkB and also a sweetener as I think this can ‘knock the corners' off a lot of flavours. Butric is another obvious one, but horrible stuff and I have neither the time nor inclination to test optimum levels.
In reply to Post #5
100%
100%
Iso eugenol
In reply to Post #1
growler extract
growler extract
So many possibilities.
I want a very good protein source, and to me that is, with one exception, an animal protein, whether it is beef, fish, liver or chicken.
The exception is yeast. All these proteins contain all of the essential amino acids, which mean they provide best useable protein for growth and tissue repair.
Successful Baits can be very basic: liver powder, Maize Meal, soya flour, semolina, and calcium Caseinate.
That will work as it stands, add liquid liver and a liquid yeast as a soak or liquid content, or both.
Probably sold in great quantities and taken loads of waters apart.
I'm not keen on modern 'high protein' meals like hemp meal/crushed hemp, peanut meal or tiger nut flour, the ingredients don't work as well as the actual hemp, peanut or tiger nut!
I actually think boilie nutrition and attraction has gone backwards. That is not the fault of anglers or even bait makers, but because the cost of raw ingredients has increased so much; fishmeal, beef powder, milk proteins.
This was happening before Brexit!
I actually think that the ingredient I can't do without is semolina. I can use it as a binder with almost any base.
I want a very good protein source, and to me that is, with one exception, an animal protein, whether it is beef, fish, liver or chicken.
The exception is yeast. All these proteins contain all of the essential amino acids, which mean they provide best useable protein for growth and tissue repair.
Successful Baits can be very basic: liver powder, Maize Meal, soya flour, semolina, and calcium Caseinate.
That will work as it stands, add liquid liver and a liquid yeast as a soak or liquid content, or both.
Probably sold in great quantities and taken loads of waters apart.
I'm not keen on modern 'high protein' meals like hemp meal/crushed hemp, peanut meal or tiger nut flour, the ingredients don't work as well as the actual hemp, peanut or tiger nut!
I actually think boilie nutrition and attraction has gone backwards. That is not the fault of anglers or even bait makers, but because the cost of raw ingredients has increased so much; fishmeal, beef powder, milk proteins.
This was happening before Brexit!
I actually think that the ingredient I can't do without is semolina. I can use it as a binder with almost any base.
Garlic powder.
In reply to Post #8
yep the original RH 1980's scopex!
yep the original RH 1980's scopex!
In reply to Post #15
I would love to get my hands on some, and not some 40 year old bottle. I just don't think it's out there.
I would love to get my hands on some, and not some 40 year old bottle. I just don't think it's out there.
In reply to Post #15
I had a chat with a guy from Catchit Labs about Scopex. He said that their Scopex has exactly the same active ingredients as the original and that the only reason it is thinner than the original stuff is because of the base it is made on. I was going to ask why they use a different base but we were interrupted by people who were looking to spend some money.
I had a chat with a guy from Catchit Labs about Scopex. He said that their Scopex has exactly the same active ingredients as the original and that the only reason it is thinner than the original stuff is because of the base it is made on. I was going to ask why they use a different base but we were interrupted by people who were looking to spend some money.
In reply to Post #17
The Nash Scopex No1 was also on a different base (mpg as opposed to the original diacetin) and I always found it very good. Same with maplecream, that was originally on a diacetin base but the modern mpg versions are still pretty good.
The Nash Scopex No1 was also on a different base (mpg as opposed to the original diacetin) and I always found it very good. Same with maplecream, that was originally on a diacetin base but the modern mpg versions are still pretty good.
In reply to Post #16
John baker toppex.
He gave the flavour to hutchy who then sold it under the name scopex. John said he wouldn't sell it whilst rod was alive and selling it. Now he does.
John baker toppex.
He gave the flavour to hutchy who then sold it under the name scopex. John said he wouldn't sell it whilst rod was alive and selling it. Now he does.
In reply to Post #19
If you believe his story that is. Toppex is nothing like Scopex in smell or taste really. Unless it is a very very concentrated version.
If you believe his story that is. Toppex is nothing like Scopex in smell or taste really. Unless it is a very very concentrated version.
In reply to Post #20
indeed!
anything he says in regards to the original RH scopex flavour,... i'd take with a HUGE pinch of salt
guys you can NOT make the original RH scopex flavour, cos of poxy EU regs that came in
i've had most of 'em scopex flavours in recent years AND they ain't nothing like my 80's original RH scopex flavour (still have 50ml bottle half full, for sniffing only )
indeed!
anything he says in regards to the original RH scopex flavour,... i'd take with a HUGE pinch of salt
guys you can NOT make the original RH scopex flavour, cos of poxy EU regs that came in
i've had most of 'em scopex flavours in recent years AND they ain't nothing like my 80's original RH scopex flavour (still have 50ml bottle half full, for sniffing only )
In reply to Post #21
The only Scopex that came close to the RH original was Nash Scopex, and that is because they came from the same source supplier. (If anyone knows the history between Nash and Rod Hutchinson you'll know why).
I could smell and taste the difference in the Mainline and other versions.
None now are anything like RH Scopex of years ago.
The only Scopex that came close to the RH original was Nash Scopex, and that is because they came from the same source supplier. (If anyone knows the history between Nash and Rod Hutchinson you'll know why).
I could smell and taste the difference in the Mainline and other versions.
None now are anything like RH Scopex of years ago.
In reply to Post #20
I believe it. He doesn't seem the type of guy to lie. I would trust that man's word over everyone elses nostalgic nose memory of a flavour from years and years ago..........
I believe it. He doesn't seem the type of guy to lie. I would trust that man's word over everyone elses nostalgic nose memory of a flavour from years and years ago..........
In reply to Post #23
And I also understood that toppex isn't the real deal but his own creation.
That could explain why Rh scopex and topex aren't carbon copies
And I also understood that toppex isn't the real deal but his own creation.
That could explain why Rh scopex and topex aren't carbon copies
In reply to Post #24
I'm sure he mentioned that it's not exactly the same but as close as can be. And let's have it right who's to say that's any worse?
We have SO many more flavours available these days comparatively. So flavours like scopex smashed it years ago but was being used in a different angling world as today. Would they stand out as much?
I think there's a lot of nostalgia with flavours.
Off topic I know......
As you were
I'm sure he mentioned that it's not exactly the same but as close as can be. And let's have it right who's to say that's any worse?
We have SO many more flavours available these days comparatively. So flavours like scopex smashed it years ago but was being used in a different angling world as today. Would they stand out as much?
I think there's a lot of nostalgia with flavours.
Off topic I know......
As you were
In reply to Post #25
I bought a bottle after hearing his podcast and, yes, he sounded genuine. It's not the same though and does not smell like the original.
I bought a bottle after hearing his podcast and, yes, he sounded genuine. It's not the same though and does not smell like the original.
In reply to Post #25
Actually there are less flavours available to anglers than there were than back in the day. And nowadays there are so many regulations regarding the safety of flavours some of the Ingredients in the flavours are no longer used, diactyl in cream flavours is the obvious one.
With regards to scopex the original was on a different base so any current version is not going to be the same.
Actually there are less flavours available to anglers than there were than back in the day. And nowadays there are so many regulations regarding the safety of flavours some of the Ingredients in the flavours are no longer used, diactyl in cream flavours is the obvious one.
With regards to scopex the original was on a different base so any current version is not going to be the same.
In reply to Post #22
And didn't Jason Rider basically give the recipe in his book? He'd know the Nash version.
And didn't Jason Rider basically give the recipe in his book? He'd know the Nash version.
In reply to Post #27
Maybe there was more flavours available to the manufacturers and flavour houses due to less regulations but I'd have thought to the actual anglers there's much more no? That's what I'd have thought. More bait companies, more boutique and small bait companies and more ingredient retailers etc etc all in reach of every angler with an iPhone.
Maybe there was more flavours available to the manufacturers and flavour houses due to less regulations but I'd have thought to the actual anglers there's much more no? That's what I'd have thought. More bait companies, more boutique and small bait companies and more ingredient retailers etc etc all in reach of every angler with an iPhone.
In reply to Post #29
Actually no, the market for anglers making their own baits is nothing like it was in the 80s. Back then the magazines carried loads of adverts for base mixes, ingredients and flavours. You couldn't buy ready made baits as easily as you can now, if you wanted something a bit better than a bag of tutties you had to make them yourself.... Although I bet we would all like a few bags of original frozen tutties in our freezers now.
Actually no, the market for anglers making their own baits is nothing like it was in the 80s. Back then the magazines carried loads of adverts for base mixes, ingredients and flavours. You couldn't buy ready made baits as easily as you can now, if you wanted something a bit better than a bag of tutties you had to make them yourself.... Although I bet we would all like a few bags of original frozen tutties in our freezers now.
In reply to Post #29
The overall flavour market is enormous. There's big money in parfums and foodstuff. Flavours for anglers us like less than 1% of the market, what makes it very niche.
The overall flavour market is enormous. There's big money in parfums and foodstuff. Flavours for anglers us like less than 1% of the market, what makes it very niche.
In reply to Post #28
Yes he does - I'm assuming its the Nash version. He's making baits with scopex in that I have done very well on this year.
Yes he does - I'm assuming its the Nash version. He's making baits with scopex in that I have done very well on this year.
In reply to Post #30
Interesting I'd have thought it was the other way around given the popularity of angling now compared to then. Surprising
Interesting I'd have thought it was the other way around given the popularity of angling now compared to then. Surprising
In reply to Post #31
And let's not forget the vape market for flavours, that must be a new profitable avenue nowadays....
And let's not forget the vape market for flavours, that must be a new profitable avenue nowadays....
In reply to Post #31
There was an Inside the Factory on the BBC on Sunday that had a short section on flavours (specifically mint), but an explanation that food flavours are natural products compared to perfumes being allowed to be artificial.
I grew up in the 1980's and was stinking my mother's kitchen out with various ideas; pond pellets, dog food. Even up to around 2005 I was making my own (from a proprietary base mix but with tweaks)
I personally think anglers who make their own bait is far less than even 20years ago, with far more bait companies around making ready made bait.
There was an Inside the Factory on the BBC on Sunday that had a short section on flavours (specifically mint), but an explanation that food flavours are natural products compared to perfumes being allowed to be artificial.
I grew up in the 1980's and was stinking my mother's kitchen out with various ideas; pond pellets, dog food. Even up to around 2005 I was making my own (from a proprietary base mix but with tweaks)
I personally think anglers who make their own bait is far less than even 20years ago, with far more bait companies around making ready made bait.
In reply to Post #33
Back then pretty much everyone rolled their own. Now virtually no one does, so the viability of buying 50 gallon drums from manufacturers isn't there.
Apart from a couple of “boutique” companies (A Bait, Optibaits, JB, for example) none of the flavours are purpose made made for fishing, they are al byproducts of the confectionary, baking or pet food businesses - angling is literally a drop in the ocean to them.
Back then pretty much everyone rolled their own. Now virtually no one does, so the viability of buying 50 gallon drums from manufacturers isn't there.
Apart from a couple of “boutique” companies (A Bait, Optibaits, JB, for example) none of the flavours are purpose made made for fishing, they are al byproducts of the confectionary, baking or pet food businesses - angling is literally a drop in the ocean to them.
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