I feel a bit of a fraud being here as I am really a Match Angler but like to keep up with what is happening in the carp fishing world, especially as far as baits are concerned.
I have experimented using Pigeon conditioner as a margin feed which has produced some good results but wondered if it would be beneficial to use Betaine in any of my particles or pastes ?
I have experimented using Pigeon conditioner as a margin feed which has produced some good results but wondered if it would be beneficial to use Betaine in any of my particles or pastes ?
In reply to Post #1
Those who really really study carps reactions to ingredients will be split, as there is camps for and against it, as well as camps for the different types available the naturally derived stuff or the HCI version etc
So with match fishing and correct me if I'm wrong generally is about creating a competitive feeding response in smaller carp in highly stocked lakes? I'm not sure you'd notice a dramatic different personally, I think there are far more potent ingredients you can utilise from the carp fishing world but to each their own.
Start with a 1% by dry weight ratio and work your way up, giving it s few sessions on each formula.
Those who really really study carps reactions to ingredients will be split, as there is camps for and against it, as well as camps for the different types available the naturally derived stuff or the HCI version etc
So with match fishing and correct me if I'm wrong generally is about creating a competitive feeding response in smaller carp in highly stocked lakes? I'm not sure you'd notice a dramatic different personally, I think there are far more potent ingredients you can utilise from the carp fishing world but to each their own.
Start with a 1% by dry weight ratio and work your way up, giving it s few sessions on each formula.
In reply to Post #2
I find the natural derived betaine more potent than the HCl version.
I find the natural derived betaine more potent than the HCl version.
In reply to Post #2
Mozzi - Which other ingredients would you suggest then ?
Mozzi - Which other ingredients would you suggest then ?
Mozzi is right I'd look at liquids like canalus or liver possibly. Likely to see a better / quicker response.
In reply to Post #4
Most the proper hydros - salmon, tuna, shrimp, Calanus, liver etc
Green lipped mussel powder, liver powder, citric acid, salt, sugar, sweet corn juice, high fructose corn syrup, yeast extracts, chilli sauces, oyster sauces, belechan, cpsp90, krill powder, paprika, the world really is your oyster.
Molasses did there is no nuisance fish.
I also prefer naturally derived betaine
Most the proper hydros - salmon, tuna, shrimp, Calanus, liver etc
Green lipped mussel powder, liver powder, citric acid, salt, sugar, sweet corn juice, high fructose corn syrup, yeast extracts, chilli sauces, oyster sauces, belechan, cpsp90, krill powder, paprika, the world really is your oyster.
Molasses did there is no nuisance fish.
I also prefer naturally derived betaine
In reply to Post #1
When I worked with two or three of the U.K.s top match lads it was clear to me that they actually only needed to use 2/3 products, all of them pellet based!
One of the additives that one of them used in his own bait was Betaine anyhdrous.
He wins many matches 😉
When I worked with two or three of the U.K.s top match lads it was clear to me that they actually only needed to use 2/3 products, all of them pellet based!
One of the additives that one of them used in his own bait was Betaine anyhdrous.
He wins many matches 😉
In reply to Post #7
Dynamite betaine green is probably the best selling ground bait of the last twenty years
Dynamite betaine green is probably the best selling ground bait of the last twenty years
In reply to Post #8
So In 1 post you say don't use it and then the next post you say this is the best ground bait ever!! Make your
Mind up. The dude is asking for help rather than listing loads of ingredients or backtracking and going down the betaine route why not be specific to help the OP!
I would say to the OP get some good fish hydro and a splash of salmon or good oil and that will help. If you want to take it further add in some powder additives like betaine or green lip muscle but first start with a liquid... then add to it.
So In 1 post you say don't use it and then the next post you say this is the best ground bait ever!! Make your
Mind up. The dude is asking for help rather than listing loads of ingredients or backtracking and going down the betaine route why not be specific to help the OP!
I would say to the OP get some good fish hydro and a splash of salmon or good oil and that will help. If you want to take it further add in some powder additives like betaine or green lip muscle but first start with a liquid... then add to it.
In reply to Post #9
In reply to Post #7
For the last 20 years I fished a small quarry where I could often bait the margins & watch the fish react to the bait.
I tried pretty much every bait over the years and on every occasion, the reaction to pellets was unreal. I could even hook a fish & the others would continue, tails up, engrossed.
I've not seen anything that promotes such a fast & carefree feeding response.
For the last 20 years I fished a small quarry where I could often bait the margins & watch the fish react to the bait.
I tried pretty much every bait over the years and on every occasion, the reaction to pellets was unreal. I could even hook a fish & the others would continue, tails up, engrossed.
I've not seen anything that promotes such a fast & carefree feeding response.
In reply to Post #1
As a matchmen it's trial and error, I guess you know that
I know a few top match lads and they are getting more and more into bait than they ever did. Trill was popular at one time, sounds like people are going over to particle now. Mainline Cell liquids and supporting baits are very popular too.
If you are using home made particle there are literally 100s of options, the good news it will suck up water or what you soak it in like a sponge, like mentioned try betaine at low levels in warm water, sugar such as CSL and molasses would be worth a try, you can get away with very high levels, mix it with warm water, you could also add Cell activator or I belive they do a specific particle additive, personally I would avoid fish and liver based additive with particle but that's my choice, make it super sweet
Put it somewhere warm and leave it a couple of day, I.e prepare it Wednesday or Thursday for Saturday, give it a stir everyday and come Saturday you should have a nicely fermenting frothy mix that has absorbed most of the water
As a matchmen it's trial and error, I guess you know that
I know a few top match lads and they are getting more and more into bait than they ever did. Trill was popular at one time, sounds like people are going over to particle now. Mainline Cell liquids and supporting baits are very popular too.
If you are using home made particle there are literally 100s of options, the good news it will suck up water or what you soak it in like a sponge, like mentioned try betaine at low levels in warm water, sugar such as CSL and molasses would be worth a try, you can get away with very high levels, mix it with warm water, you could also add Cell activator or I belive they do a specific particle additive, personally I would avoid fish and liver based additive with particle but that's my choice, make it super sweet
Put it somewhere warm and leave it a couple of day, I.e prepare it Wednesday or Thursday for Saturday, give it a stir everyday and come Saturday you should have a nicely fermenting frothy mix that has absorbed most of the water
In reply to Post #1
On a water I've fished a lot during the last 10 years I've found it's better left alone more over I much prefer hemp.
On a water I've fished a lot during the last 10 years I've found it's better left alone more over I much prefer hemp.
In reply to Post #1
Think it's definitely worth giving a go in your pastes, maybe worth combining with something containing high levels of glutamic acid.
On the particle front I'd be inclined to look at a vitamin & mineral additive, so many options can make your head spin!
Think it's definitely worth giving a go in your pastes, maybe worth combining with something containing high levels of glutamic acid.
On the particle front I'd be inclined to look at a vitamin & mineral additive, so many options can make your head spin!
In reply to Post #14
I think the biggest problem I have is getting my head round fermenting baits. I have always used the freshest bait available and it never seems right to use a bait that has gone "Off".
I think the biggest problem I have is getting my head round fermenting baits. I have always used the freshest bait available and it never seems right to use a bait that has gone "Off".
In reply to Post #15
some stuff is better fresh, but you cant beat pigeon conditioner once it smells like its 40% proof
some stuff is better fresh, but you cant beat pigeon conditioner once it smells like its 40% proof
In reply to Post #16
Added Betaine to my hemp and soon had the fish swirling in the margins. Obviously not conclusive proof that it works but certainly a good start to my experiments.
Added Betaine to my hemp and soon had the fish swirling in the margins. Obviously not conclusive proof that it works but certainly a good start to my experiments.
In reply to Post #1
I have been experimenting a bit over the pas two seasons and added some betaine to my mix this year. Must say I'm truly impressed with my results thus far. Loads of other things may have contributed to my catch rate going up, but I absolutely won't take it out of my mix for now.
Doubts here about it having any effect when tossing it in your particles though...
I have been experimenting a bit over the pas two seasons and added some betaine to my mix this year. Must say I'm truly impressed with my results thus far. Loads of other things may have contributed to my catch rate going up, but I absolutely won't take it out of my mix for now.
Doubts here about it having any effect when tossing it in your particles though...
For those in the know (if any are left!) ...If I was to make solution with anhydrous crystals and water what ratio of Betaine to water would be a good place to start?
In reply to Post #19
It al depends on the final dosing you're aiming for.
The higher the concentration, the lesser you need to add to your bait.
It al depends on the final dosing you're aiming for.
The higher the concentration, the lesser you need to add to your bait.
In reply to Post #18
Can you compare it with the same mix? Or did you change just more than just adding betaine?
I personally don't like to add to the mix. But I prefer to use it in soaks to spike my hookbaits with it.
Can you compare it with the same mix? Or did you change just more than just adding betaine?
I personally don't like to add to the mix. But I prefer to use it in soaks to spike my hookbaits with it.
In reply to Post #21
I prepared my hemp and put it in a 4 pint plastic milk bottle then added betaine dissolved in water and left it overnight. The problem with Match fishing for carp is that for the first half of a 5 hour match the carp quite often dont feed in the margins, they do visit the margins but dont feed properly until the last couple of hours. In my last match I fed the margins with the hemp and they fed throughout the whole match.
I prepared my hemp and put it in a 4 pint plastic milk bottle then added betaine dissolved in water and left it overnight. The problem with Match fishing for carp is that for the first half of a 5 hour match the carp quite often dont feed in the margins, they do visit the margins but dont feed properly until the last couple of hours. In my last match I fed the margins with the hemp and they fed throughout the whole match.
In reply to Post #9
Apologies Neil, he literally asked for exactly that on post 4? Also, with the green swim stim, I am not privy to the betaine levels etc but hardly anyone who has crossed over from coarse fishing would argue it shifted seriously large volumes.
You can both give advice and opinion, as well as answer more binary if a specific question is asked. I have no idea why this stressed you out to the point you felt the need to admonish me for it ? 👍🏼
Apologies Neil, he literally asked for exactly that on post 4? Also, with the green swim stim, I am not privy to the betaine levels etc but hardly anyone who has crossed over from coarse fishing would argue it shifted seriously large volumes.
You can both give advice and opinion, as well as answer more binary if a specific question is asked. I have no idea why this stressed you out to the point you felt the need to admonish me for it ? 👍🏼
Reading ALL pages