I see another otter petition has come to the fore, this time asking for the otter to be downgraded in terms of status, interesting angle.
In reply to Post #1
Pointless petition
Pointless petition
In reply to Post #2
Pointless to some, but not to others
Pointless to some, but not to others
In reply to Post #3
I'd guess what Joss means is even if the status were to be downgraded (which is doubtful) it would still be illegal to kill them so it makes no odds.
I would actually like to hear Joss expand on his thoughts as the resident expert. As the population recovers it stands to reason that things could change at some point.
I'd guess what Joss means is even if the status were to be downgraded (which is doubtful) it would still be illegal to kill them so it makes no odds.
I would actually like to hear Joss expand on his thoughts as the resident expert. As the population recovers it stands to reason that things could change at some point.
In reply to Post #3
i meant its a pointless petition in terms it wont happen and an otters status wont change
i meant its a pointless petition in terms it wont happen and an otters status wont change
In reply to Post #4
Of course things could change, I mean everything has the ability to change, it stands to reason with an ever increasing population of otters that it should be talked about.
Of course things could change, I mean everything has the ability to change, it stands to reason with an ever increasing population of otters that it should be talked about.
In reply to Post #3
To the OP, schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act (basically the protected species list) gets reviewed every 5 years and thus far has pretty much just grown and grown in size with each review so I can't see otters coming off any time soon.
I agree with Joss that the petition is a complete waste of time.
The problem we have is that for otters to be considered for de-schedule the population would have to increase massively and I'm sure some of us think there are plenty enough already. I know I do.
To the OP, schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act (basically the protected species list) gets reviewed every 5 years and thus far has pretty much just grown and grown in size with each review so I can't see otters coming off any time soon.
I agree with Joss that the petition is a complete waste of time.
The problem we have is that for otters to be considered for de-schedule the population would have to increase massively and I'm sure some of us think there are plenty enough already. I know I do.
In reply to Post #7
The question being what would be an acceptable level for their status to change? I'm not too sure of it, although its evident that their numbers have exponentially increased if you go on just sightings alone.
The question being what would be an acceptable level for their status to change? I'm not too sure of it, although its evident that their numbers have exponentially increased if you go on just sightings alone.
In reply to Post #6
agreed, things can change, but when referring to Otters, this is one thing that wont change in the foreseeable future.
the national out cry for the countries favourite animal would be a political nightmare. NOW, i'm not saying i think otters should stay on said list or not, but with the recent huge comeback of, what WAS an endangered species and its huge success over recent years, there is no way the government will allow them to be "fair" game ever again, despite anglers views.
Can you ever see RSPB, NE, and every other wildlife group signing up to remove otters from the protected species list?
the other thing is, its only anglers calling for the removal and angling isn't exactly see in a great light outside of the angling paternity.
You could actually say angling has made a slight rod for its own back re the otters success.
agreed, things can change, but when referring to Otters, this is one thing that wont change in the foreseeable future.
the national out cry for the countries favourite animal would be a political nightmare. NOW, i'm not saying i think otters should stay on said list or not, but with the recent huge comeback of, what WAS an endangered species and its huge success over recent years, there is no way the government will allow them to be "fair" game ever again, despite anglers views.
Can you ever see RSPB, NE, and every other wildlife group signing up to remove otters from the protected species list?
the other thing is, its only anglers calling for the removal and angling isn't exactly see in a great light outside of the angling paternity.
You could actually say angling has made a slight rod for its own back re the otters success.
In reply to Post #9
I dont think the angling community had any say in it. Clearly the releases in the Thames catchment area were done without any proper risk assessment, and numbers have boomed out from there.
Obviously there could be a national outcry, but I'm in the thought of the public not particularly caring, why should they?
I've had conversations in the past with work colleagues, explaining the issue angling is facing, obviously I'm biased somewhat, but even still, most cant believe that there is nothing that can be done about the situation
I dont think the angling community had any say in it. Clearly the releases in the Thames catchment area were done without any proper risk assessment, and numbers have boomed out from there.
Obviously there could be a national outcry, but I'm in the thought of the public not particularly caring, why should they?
I've had conversations in the past with work colleagues, explaining the issue angling is facing, obviously I'm biased somewhat, but even still, most cant believe that there is nothing that can be done about the situation
In reply to Post #10
Agree again mate re impact surveys.
NONE were or are carried out pre release/s and they dont have to by law. Of which i personally find quite disturbing and very wrong.
i spend alot of my time talking to non anglers and they dont see the devastating impact on ALL wildlife that otters pose, they just see a cuddly cute creature. I was recently on a radio station where they were discussing a otter in the middle of a local towns park, even the radio host didnt understand what damage an otter can do.
I have been fascinated by otters and their behaviours and you cant help but admire them to some degree.
Petitions are normally poorly put forward and supported by people who and poorly informed and just jump on the bandwagon.
Agree again mate re impact surveys.
NONE were or are carried out pre release/s and they dont have to by law. Of which i personally find quite disturbing and very wrong.
i spend alot of my time talking to non anglers and they dont see the devastating impact on ALL wildlife that otters pose, they just see a cuddly cute creature. I was recently on a radio station where they were discussing a otter in the middle of a local towns park, even the radio host didnt understand what damage an otter can do.
I have been fascinated by otters and their behaviours and you cant help but admire them to some degree.
Petitions are normally poorly put forward and supported by people who and poorly informed and just jump on the bandwagon.
In reply to Post #10
The trouble is otters are an apex predator and apart from the ones that get hit by cars there is no control on their numbers. They will continue to increase until their food supply can no longer maintain their numbers. They are very intelligent I just hope they don't end up like the Fox.
The trouble is otters are an apex predator and apart from the ones that get hit by cars there is no control on their numbers. They will continue to increase until their food supply can no longer maintain their numbers. They are very intelligent I just hope they don't end up like the Fox.
In reply to Post #12
Otters are already common within towns, especially during floods as they escape more rural areas, they are then sighted and hunted by the general public with their cameras, no one seems to make a fuss about disturbing them then
predators will only be as successful as the available food source, once that depletes, then you may see a reduction in numbers, especially as we fence our lakes more, then i suspect angling will face yet another backlash as it will be seen as stopping otters access. But that will be a long way off.
Otters are already common within towns, especially during floods as they escape more rural areas, they are then sighted and hunted by the general public with their cameras, no one seems to make a fuss about disturbing them then
predators will only be as successful as the available food source, once that depletes, then you may see a reduction in numbers, especially as we fence our lakes more, then i suspect angling will face yet another backlash as it will be seen as stopping otters access. But that will be a long way off.
In reply to Post #13
I'll add
This is one argument Angling on its own will NEVER win. It will have to involve so many more wildlife groups to even be taken seriously, and even then, it wont get pushed through.
Otters will remain on the protected species list for more yrs than any of us have, no amount of petitions will change that, in fact, I'll go as far I'm saying it makes the angling community look daft, un educated and out for their own gain/s
I hope I'm wrong, but i doubt i am on this one
I'll add
This is one argument Angling on its own will NEVER win. It will have to involve so many more wildlife groups to even be taken seriously, and even then, it wont get pushed through.
Otters will remain on the protected species list for more yrs than any of us have, no amount of petitions will change that, in fact, I'll go as far I'm saying it makes the angling community look daft, un educated and out for their own gain/s
I hope I'm wrong, but i doubt i am on this one
In reply to Post #11
In regards to petitions, although very little comes from them, it does get people talking, as in this case, and the issue as I said before needs to be talked about.
As for the status change who knows, certainly the near future nothing will change, its clear there are issues surrounding them, as lakes are having to put fences up to protect their stocks, with the likes of Danny Fairbrass paying for them out of his own money, I'm sure the likes of him and Nash can pressure the AT who in turn can pressure other groups for change, in fact if it had been Korda instead of the BS petitioning then I could imagine it will of already hit 10-15k signatures.
In regards to petitions, although very little comes from them, it does get people talking, as in this case, and the issue as I said before needs to be talked about.
As for the status change who knows, certainly the near future nothing will change, its clear there are issues surrounding them, as lakes are having to put fences up to protect their stocks, with the likes of Danny Fairbrass paying for them out of his own money, I'm sure the likes of him and Nash can pressure the AT who in turn can pressure other groups for change, in fact if it had been Korda instead of the BS petitioning then I could imagine it will of already hit 10-15k signatures.
In reply to Post #15
Again, you are right mate, re gets people talking, sadly though, i read that many stupid comments on this subject it puts angling in a bad light, so you could say it has a double edged sword.
Embryo are brilliant, ive worked alongside them for sometime now and they do a great good, as does Danny and his team. None of the major manufactures will take on the Otter subject for fear of backlash, so embryo just do what they need to without upsetting any wildlife groups. I don't see any of the other large firms, FOX, NASH blah blah doing anything constructive towards predation (forgive me if they do, i'm just not aware of anything)
Otter predation is an immensely complicated and emotive subject, one i've been around for a long time, and i actually spend far too much time on it, but perversely, i enjoy it. I do get sick and tired on "anti's" on both sides, i wish people would go out their way to understand issues on both sides of the fence, but sadly, these days, every one is an expert on FB etc and 99.9% are thick as pig
Again, you are right mate, re gets people talking, sadly though, i read that many stupid comments on this subject it puts angling in a bad light, so you could say it has a double edged sword.
Embryo are brilliant, ive worked alongside them for sometime now and they do a great good, as does Danny and his team. None of the major manufactures will take on the Otter subject for fear of backlash, so embryo just do what they need to without upsetting any wildlife groups. I don't see any of the other large firms, FOX, NASH blah blah doing anything constructive towards predation (forgive me if they do, i'm just not aware of anything)
Otter predation is an immensely complicated and emotive subject, one i've been around for a long time, and i actually spend far too much time on it, but perversely, i enjoy it. I do get sick and tired on "anti's" on both sides, i wish people would go out their way to understand issues on both sides of the fence, but sadly, these days, every one is an expert on FB etc and 99.9% are thick as pig
In reply to Post #14
Agree 100%. Really good post.
Agree 100%. Really good post.
In reply to Post #16
It took angling a long time to wake up to it, I suppose when the twitches have to join an angling club to find a bit of water with a healthy bird population the penny will drop.
On that note did you catch the story a short while ago about the Surrey sand Martin project? That looked like a lot of otter fodder should they find their way to that chain of lakes
It took angling a long time to wake up to it, I suppose when the twitches have to join an angling club to find a bit of water with a healthy bird population the penny will drop.
On that note did you catch the story a short while ago about the Surrey sand Martin project? That looked like a lot of otter fodder should they find their way to that chain of lakes
In reply to Post #18
Ive had a conversation with certain wildlife groups, and they rightly point out that domestic cats eat and kill more birds than otters do...will will see a ban on domestic cats...NOPE. Yet RSBP have fences up, predator fences, they would stop a lion getting in!
That begs a different question hey!
Ive had a conversation with certain wildlife groups, and they rightly point out that domestic cats eat and kill more birds than otters do...will will see a ban on domestic cats...NOPE. Yet RSBP have fences up, predator fences, they would stop a lion getting in!
That begs a different question hey!
In reply to Post #1
I mean this sums up the forces in the angling community pushing for this (clueless).
I mean this sums up the forces in the angling community pushing for this (clueless).
In reply to Post #20
indeed.
too be fair, ive not actually read the petition, i should, but havent wasted my time.
Whos actually put it together?
indeed.
too be fair, ive not actually read the petition, i should, but havent wasted my time.
Whos actually put it together?
In reply to Post #21
The Barbel Society chairman Steve Pope.
The Barbel Society chairman Steve Pope.
Remove the otter's protected species status
The Eurasian otter (Lutra Lutra) is now firmly established in the river systems across the UK and appear to be in far greater numbers than anyone can recall.
More details
We believe the protection afforded by a number of priority species lists and The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 should be removed as it is no longer appropriate, in order to protect and maintain a balanced riverine environment.
At least its a short one
The Eurasian otter (Lutra Lutra) is now firmly established in the river systems across the UK and appear to be in far greater numbers than anyone can recall.
More details
We believe the protection afforded by a number of priority species lists and The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 should be removed as it is no longer appropriate, in order to protect and maintain a balanced riverine environment.
At least its a short one
In reply to Post #20
As someone who has fished for barbel a lot over the years the plight of the barbel in small to medium size rivers is quite shocking. Once great barbel rivers such as the ouse, ivel, teme, cherwell reduced to nothing, except the EA trying to boost numbers by injecting thousands upon thousands of fingerlings, you can sort of get the reasoning behind it, as the barbel seemed to of suffered the most from the otters.
Like them or not, in my view you are better doing something, even if the odds are stacked completely against you, at least you've given it a go.
As someone who has fished for barbel a lot over the years the plight of the barbel in small to medium size rivers is quite shocking. Once great barbel rivers such as the ouse, ivel, teme, cherwell reduced to nothing, except the EA trying to boost numbers by injecting thousands upon thousands of fingerlings, you can sort of get the reasoning behind it, as the barbel seemed to of suffered the most from the otters.
Like them or not, in my view you are better doing something, even if the odds are stacked completely against you, at least you've given it a go.
I believe it's the same guy that raised the other one calling for non-lethal means of otter control.
In reply to Post #22
well that's the starting point for it all to go wrong then
well that's the starting point for it all to go wrong then
In reply to Post #25
what the hell is "non leathal" control
if i remember rightly (i may be wrong) it was him asking for otters to be trapped and put into sanctuaries
what the hell is "non leathal" control
if i remember rightly (i may be wrong) it was him asking for otters to be trapped and put into sanctuaries
In reply to Post #24
As someone who has fished for barbel a lot over the years the plight of the barbel in small to medium size rivers is quite shocking.
Your not wrong
I've seen more photos of Barbel carcases this year than photos of live ones, they really are being annihilated!
There's talk of the Alantic Salmon going on the endangered species list to, no wonder if the few returning to breed are getting mullared before they get the chance to, year on year.
As someone who has fished for barbel a lot over the years the plight of the barbel in small to medium size rivers is quite shocking.
Your not wrong
I've seen more photos of Barbel carcases this year than photos of live ones, they really are being annihilated!There's talk of the Alantic Salmon going on the endangered species list to, no wonder if the few returning to breed are getting mullared before they get the chance to, year on year.
In reply to Post #28
cant disagree there either mate
cant disagree there either mate
In reply to Post #25
Which already existed under licence.
Which already existed under licence.
In reply to Post #30
AMEN to that
AMEN to that
In reply to Post #31
Also, you can add that there is "lethal control" under license
Also, you can add that there is "lethal control" under license
In reply to Post #32
Tbf there has always been lethal control, like all other animals can you put them out of their misery if you happened to stumble across one that was so far gone you thought it had zero chance of surviving
Tbf there has always been lethal control, like all other animals can you put them out of their misery if you happened to stumble across one that was so far gone you thought it had zero chance of surviving
In reply to Post #28
The salmon populations wont recover by removing otters. Completely separate drivers sending salmon to the brink, which highlights the main issue really.
The salmon populations wont recover by removing otters. Completely separate drivers sending salmon to the brink, which highlights the main issue really.
In reply to Post #33
As far as im aware, NO one has applied to NE for lethal control as yet
As far as im aware, NO one has applied to NE for lethal control as yet
In reply to Post #31
Is there any chance of a river fishery meeting the criteria for those controls to be implemented?
While I think these petitions have no chance of success, I do feel for them.
I would like to know how much of the angling budget is spent on stocking otter fodder into the rivers, and without the stockings would barbel become an endangered species themselves?
Is there any chance of a river fishery meeting the criteria for those controls to be implemented?
While I think these petitions have no chance of success, I do feel for them.
I would like to know how much of the angling budget is spent on stocking otter fodder into the rivers, and without the stockings would barbel become an endangered species themselves?
In reply to Post #21
If this were a serious argument about recovering fish stocks, the focus should be on lobbying for habitat restoration and reducing pollution of our rivers. That is a bigger issue!! As a community we just can't get behind what we can't see.
The otter predation argument is a classic case of shifting baseline syndrome. Angling boomed in their absence, and now we argue for the status quo (our already degraded systems) without the otter. Our perception of a functioning ecosystem needs re-callibrating. We are essentially in an ecological emergency, the answer is in the mass rewilding of the river systems. As a community we need to embrace that change and respect nature more.
With respect to lakes or commercial waters ok see this as a different argument. I think a risk based solution, through grants to minimise risk to businesses needs looking at. Funds for fencing and stocking etc. I don't think carp should err take residence over protected wildlife as sad as that is to say.
If this were a serious argument about recovering fish stocks, the focus should be on lobbying for habitat restoration and reducing pollution of our rivers. That is a bigger issue!! As a community we just can't get behind what we can't see.
The otter predation argument is a classic case of shifting baseline syndrome. Angling boomed in their absence, and now we argue for the status quo (our already degraded systems) without the otter. Our perception of a functioning ecosystem needs re-callibrating. We are essentially in an ecological emergency, the answer is in the mass rewilding of the river systems. As a community we need to embrace that change and respect nature more.
With respect to lakes or commercial waters ok see this as a different argument. I think a risk based solution, through grants to minimise risk to businesses needs looking at. Funds for fencing and stocking etc. I don't think carp should err take residence over protected wildlife as sad as that is to say.
In reply to Post #36
Very good questions mate. unsure on full criteria, but id suspect no chance of river keepers be able to have a successful application
yeap, im fully on record of saying its woeful for rivers, canals and un protected waters.
you'll be able to find out the monies spent on stocking via the EA
Very good questions mate. unsure on full criteria, but id suspect no chance of river keepers be able to have a successful application
yeap, im fully on record of saying its woeful for rivers, canals and un protected waters.
you'll be able to find out the monies spent on stocking via the EA
In reply to Post #37
Grants for fencing exist via EA and AT
with all the bloody mooning anglers do and the money they waste of the latest crappy bit of tackle, if grants cant be obtained, spend some of your own money to protect what you say you love so dearly...I DID! OR HAD TOO...and so did my members
they all happy to spend thousands on pointless tackle, but cry like babies when a syndicate puts the price up for fencing
Grants for fencing exist via EA and AT
with all the bloody mooning anglers do and the money they waste of the latest crappy bit of tackle, if grants cant be obtained, spend some of your own money to protect what you say you love so dearly...I DID! OR HAD TOO...and so did my members
they all happy to spend thousands on pointless tackle, but cry like babies when a syndicate puts the price up for fencing
In reply to Post #39
Around 2012 it became blatantly obvious around my way you either “Fence it or forget it” it really was that simple.
The ones that did have flourished the ones that did not ended up having to fence and then re-stock from scratch!
The writing is on the wall as regards what the futures going to look like to me-
~ Private Syndicate waters fenced and thriving.
~ Fenced Commercial Carp & Coarse waters thriving.
~ Trout Stillwater's that constantly stock on a very regular basis thriving.
~ Sea fishing- thriving.
The rest “FUBAR!”
Around 2012 it became blatantly obvious around my way you either “Fence it or forget it” it really was that simple.
The ones that did have flourished the ones that did not ended up having to fence and then re-stock from scratch!
The writing is on the wall as regards what the futures going to look like to me-
~ Private Syndicate waters fenced and thriving.
~ Fenced Commercial Carp & Coarse waters thriving.
~ Trout Stillwater's that constantly stock on a very regular basis thriving.
~ Sea fishing- thriving.
The rest “FUBAR!”
In reply to Post #37
The problem is the otter situation was dropped into the angling community like a bomb, from those who didnt particularly care of the consequences, now those rivers I had mentioned earlier went from sustainable to not in a very short space of time relatively speaking. Now you cant blame people for essentially thinking they've had a pretty raw deal, and want to fight back.
It's very easy to blame the environment, but those same environments happily sustained barbel
The problem is the otter situation was dropped into the angling community like a bomb, from those who didnt particularly care of the consequences, now those rivers I had mentioned earlier went from sustainable to not in a very short space of time relatively speaking. Now you cant blame people for essentially thinking they've had a pretty raw deal, and want to fight back.
It's very easy to blame the environment, but those same environments happily sustained barbel
In reply to Post #41
Sorry mate, the otter issues wasn't "Dropped" into angling at all....
it was ignored, not believed, few of us knew full well what was going to happen.
Even today, alot of lake owners, clubs etc still refuse to do anything to protect their stock, as they "dont" think it will happen to them...blind or ignorance? the latter me thinks.
Sorry mate, the otter issues wasn't "Dropped" into angling at all....
it was ignored, not believed, few of us knew full well what was going to happen.
Even today, alot of lake owners, clubs etc still refuse to do anything to protect their stock, as they "dont" think it will happen to them...blind or ignorance? the latter me thinks.
In reply to Post #42
The future for our rivers and canals is particularly bleak.
I live 5 minutes from the Ivel which sadly in 2015 saw the lady and pretty much all the double figure barbel killed in 3 months its was a akin to a fox in a hen coop. I'm sure old Dick Walker is looking down with great sadness on a river he fished much when he lived in the town.
For the first time going back in 2018 they cancelled the annual match which they'd held for 50 years.
Sadly the days of large barbel are dwindling year on year as otter numbers increase, even the chub are starting to thin out and on one stretch once abundant of perch over 3lb it's a shadow of itself.
The only safe venues will be those that are fenced.
The future for our rivers and canals is particularly bleak.
I live 5 minutes from the Ivel which sadly in 2015 saw the lady and pretty much all the double figure barbel killed in 3 months its was a akin to a fox in a hen coop. I'm sure old Dick Walker is looking down with great sadness on a river he fished much when he lived in the town.
For the first time going back in 2018 they cancelled the annual match which they'd held for 50 years.
Sadly the days of large barbel are dwindling year on year as otter numbers increase, even the chub are starting to thin out and on one stretch once abundant of perch over 3lb it's a shadow of itself.
The only safe venues will be those that are fenced.
I've got a single ,placed Beaver in the adjacent river..
The amount of damage this creature has done already beggars belief..if and when they go on the protected list,the fun and games will begin again,just like the otter debacle,only...possibly worse you see,dams cannot be deconstructed,if they get put on the endangered list or whatever..dams cause rivers to back up and spread,...just think about it..!!
Again,like I did years ago, about the otter i'm alerting others because the Beaver rewinding programme....errr,illegal, accidentally let go ,lol,could make the otter situation pale into insignificant wisps of air..
Not long ago,I caught two prominent rewilders,one of which known to me already from my lutra collation data...on private land sussing out release sites..
I caught them red-handed..!!
The amount of damage this creature has done already beggars belief..if and when they go on the protected list,the fun and games will begin again,just like the otter debacle,only...possibly worse you see,dams cannot be deconstructed,if they get put on the endangered list or whatever..dams cause rivers to back up and spread,...just think about it..!!
Again,like I did years ago, about the otter i'm alerting others because the Beaver rewinding programme....errr,illegal, accidentally let go ,lol,could make the otter situation pale into insignificant wisps of air..
Not long ago,I caught two prominent rewilders,one of which known to me already from my lutra collation data...on private land sussing out release sites..
I caught them red-handed..!!
In reply to Post #42
It was dropped in a sense of the angling clubs only found out once dead fish started appearing, it was only then once the EA was contacted that things started coming out, and as no one had experience of otters and what they can do, angling as a whole were slow off the mark.
Moving forward, lakes will be pretty safe, as long as they have a fence, or get lucky, rivers probably wont be so lucky.
It was dropped in a sense of the angling clubs only found out once dead fish started appearing, it was only then once the EA was contacted that things started coming out, and as no one had experience of otters and what they can do, angling as a whole were slow off the mark.
Moving forward, lakes will be pretty safe, as long as they have a fence, or get lucky, rivers probably wont be so lucky.
In reply to Post #44
And everything I've just scanned ,read ,I have mentioned before..,many times..
Remember one thing,we live in strange times,with everything geared towards the green agenda,this agenda does not stop at the environment, it is also aimed,directly at us,as we are currently finding out,if you haven't sussed it yet,you soon will do...
Good luck everyone, I mean it..!
Rivers,fcud..
Lakes..No fence,no fish.
And everything I've just scanned ,read ,I have mentioned before..,many times..
Remember one thing,we live in strange times,with everything geared towards the green agenda,this agenda does not stop at the environment, it is also aimed,directly at us,as we are currently finding out,if you haven't sussed it yet,you soon will do...
Good luck everyone, I mean it..!
Rivers,fcud..
Lakes..No fence,no fish.
In reply to Post #45
Totally agree mate.
I may be coming over as a tad negative with my comments, im certainly not, more a realist.
Totally agree mate.
I may be coming over as a tad negative with my comments, im certainly not, more a realist.
In reply to Post #44
Carp anglers wont be moaning about beavers though
Carp anglers wont be moaning about beavers though
In reply to Post #48
It depends on what type of'beaver'..lol
I don't think you come across negative at all Joss,just truthful,if that's a sin or thought crime,you carry on..don't stop..
I have been through it all,disbelief, lies,being banned from lakes for telling the truth about predation ,anything and everything, especially on here,sometimes.
I said right from get go,one day the situation will manifes itself,but like I said,the green agenda is the biggest threat to future generations,our children and their children..
It is shoved down our throats by the mainstream media,all the time..
It is brainwashing,cognitive disonce
Carp anglers,with lakes,near to a Beaver holt,may well be an issue mate,you see when the beaver builds a dam it alters the direction and flow of watercourses,which could affect the lake etc,mark my words..,plus any human activity, ie fishing,walking etc,becomes void..ie a sanctuary, and illegal for it to be disturbed...
It depends on what type of'beaver'..lol
I don't think you come across negative at all Joss,just truthful,if that's a sin or thought crime,you carry on..don't stop..
I have been through it all,disbelief, lies,being banned from lakes for telling the truth about predation ,anything and everything, especially on here,sometimes.
I said right from get go,one day the situation will manifes itself,but like I said,the green agenda is the biggest threat to future generations,our children and their children..
It is shoved down our throats by the mainstream media,all the time..
It is brainwashing,cognitive disonce
Carp anglers,with lakes,near to a Beaver holt,may well be an issue mate,you see when the beaver builds a dam it alters the direction and flow of watercourses,which could affect the lake etc,mark my words..,plus any human activity, ie fishing,walking etc,becomes void..ie a sanctuary, and illegal for it to be disturbed...
In reply to Post #49
i understand the beaver issue mate, sadly there are many that wont/dont
i understand the beaver issue mate, sadly there are many that wont/dont
In reply to Post #1
Is there a link?
Is there a link?
In reply to Post #51
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/577582
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/577582
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