HI there
Ive got some old Scopex flavour going back to 2002 --2004, do you reckon this will be any good ? If not, who does the best Scopex now-days.
Cheers
Ive got some old Scopex flavour going back to 2002 --2004, do you reckon this will be any good ? If not, who does the best Scopex now-days.
Cheers
In reply to Post #1
I think scopex is a complicated one. When Rod Hutchinson and Nash parted I think it was only Nash who had the proper original scopex . Incidentally I just ordered and received a new bottle of the Nash version as I was warned that it is becoming hard to get hold of. It smelt spot on to me. I've probably forgotten by now what the original stuff smelt like 30 years ago though tbh.
A friend brought me a load of old catchum and Hutchinson flavors a few weeks ago for a nostalgic sniff, all bar one bottle, maple, were bloody awful. The scopex had almost completely lost its scent so I would be careful with your old stuff. Bang it on eBay though mate, the prices have fallen a lot in recent weeks but you should get enough cash to buy a new bottle!
I think scopex is a complicated one. When Rod Hutchinson and Nash parted I think it was only Nash who had the proper original scopex . Incidentally I just ordered and received a new bottle of the Nash version as I was warned that it is becoming hard to get hold of. It smelt spot on to me. I've probably forgotten by now what the original stuff smelt like 30 years ago though tbh.
A friend brought me a load of old catchum and Hutchinson flavors a few weeks ago for a nostalgic sniff, all bar one bottle, maple, were bloody awful. The scopex had almost completely lost its scent so I would be careful with your old stuff. Bang it on eBay though mate, the prices have fallen a lot in recent weeks but you should get enough cash to buy a new bottle!
In reply to Post #1
Good for your Bank Balance! Get it on ebay
Good for your Bank Balance! Get it on ebay
In reply to Post #3
Catchit labs gear is good. And it came from Nash anyway!
Catchit labs gear is good. And it came from Nash anyway!
I remember the guy who sold it to me , reckoned the older it was the better, so I bought a few 50ml bottles and stored them in the back of the kitchen cupboard and told the misses not to throw them out .To use his words he said "matures like a fine wine".
I will dig some out later and have a good sniff !!
I did use some last year on a very hard water and caught some, but I did mix it with another flavour.
Dont know if Ive got it in me to flog it after storing it all these years.
I will dig some out later and have a good sniff !!
I did use some last year on a very hard water and caught some, but I did mix it with another flavour.
Dont know if Ive got it in me to flog it after storing it all these years.
In reply to Post #5
Sell it and buy nash scopex no 1, think thay all do scopex but I would trust the nash stuff
Sell it and buy nash scopex no 1, think thay all do scopex but I would trust the nash stuff
In reply to Post #6
As I said, my latest bottle smells bang on....in fact better than the last couple I got a few years ago. Be warned though, I don't know if they have stopped selling it but I struggled to find any in any shops, though I think Johnson Ross may still have it.
As I said, my latest bottle smells bang on....in fact better than the last couple I got a few years ago. Be warned though, I don't know if they have stopped selling it but I struggled to find any in any shops, though I think Johnson Ross may still have it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbD5w5Nupdc
3.40 mins in. Judge for yourself
3.40 mins in. Judge for yourself
In reply to Post #8
Totally understand what JB is saying, but with all these different companies now selling custom hookbaits using 'old skool' flavours that are 20,30 years plus in age.
If they had/did/may have deteriorated badly, or gone off, to any degree then the fish wouldn't find them attractive.. and the companies wouldn't shift the stock.
We pay our money, and make our choice, old scopex or fresh Scopex variations by JB or Nash, Catchit.
In theory they shouldn't work, but old flavours do
Totally understand what JB is saying, but with all these different companies now selling custom hookbaits using 'old skool' flavours that are 20,30 years plus in age.
If they had/did/may have deteriorated badly, or gone off, to any degree then the fish wouldn't find them attractive.. and the companies wouldn't shift the stock.
We pay our money, and make our choice, old scopex or fresh Scopex variations by JB or Nash, Catchit.
In theory they shouldn't work, but old flavours do
In reply to Post #9
They work but is that because of or despite the old flavours. A bit of black unflavored foam will catch if you put it in the right place at the right time.
They work but is that because of or despite the old flavours. A bit of black unflavored foam will catch if you put it in the right place at the right time.
In reply to Post #10
Exactly. I know that. Right or wrong, carp are inquisitive creatures.
So does that prove that an old original early 90's scopex, is any worse than a 2021 scopex version.
Say one of each is cast out on a 2 rod spot, and both get a bite, like your zig foam, right time, right place. A bite.
IMHO I Think it boils down to whatever scopex, the individual angler is happy to use.
Exactly. I know that. Right or wrong, carp are inquisitive creatures.
So does that prove that an old original early 90's scopex, is any worse than a 2021 scopex version.
Say one of each is cast out on a 2 rod spot, and both get a bite, like your zig foam, right time, right place. A bite.
IMHO I Think it boils down to whatever scopex, the individual angler is happy to use.
In reply to Post #9
Probably tells us how important artificial flavours are in bait.. Or are they?
Probably tells us how important artificial flavours are in bait.. Or are they?
In reply to Post #1
Most flavours are multi chemical formulations containing predominantly volatile organic chemicals.
During normal storage conditions reactions will occur over time that will introduce other chemicals into the formulation that were not present in the original blend.
So a flavour put together in 2004 will certainly not have the same composition in 2021.
These breakdown products could have a repellent affect, all depends on original formulation , storage conditions and purity of original chemicals.
This is one of the problems with flavours the name could be the same; but the formulations could be quite different and different formulations will react differently during storage.
If you choose to use say a plum, strawberry etc flavour the exact formulation is largely unknown and can vary significantly between suppliers also it's ability as a carp” attractant” will only be anecdotal as it is reliant on an unspecified formulation.
Reply to Kells post 12
“ probably tells us how important artificial flavours are in bait.Or are they”
Below is a very honest quotation from John Bakers recent U tube vids
“It isn't really the flavour catching it for you its the base mix”
There you are straight from the horses mouth so to speak, after many,many years of involvement in the “ scientific “ side of carp bait and actual carp fishing all over the world I completely agree with that statement.
My advice would be don't waste your money on expensive flavours consisting of volatile organic chemicals labelled with “ fruit “ names or other nomenclature.
Your money would be better spent on ensuring you have a “top notch “ base mix where the composition is fully declared/understood.
I do accept though that at the end of the day it is all down to personal belief/choice.
Most flavours are multi chemical formulations containing predominantly volatile organic chemicals.
During normal storage conditions reactions will occur over time that will introduce other chemicals into the formulation that were not present in the original blend.
So a flavour put together in 2004 will certainly not have the same composition in 2021.
These breakdown products could have a repellent affect, all depends on original formulation , storage conditions and purity of original chemicals.
This is one of the problems with flavours the name could be the same; but the formulations could be quite different and different formulations will react differently during storage.
If you choose to use say a plum, strawberry etc flavour the exact formulation is largely unknown and can vary significantly between suppliers also it's ability as a carp” attractant” will only be anecdotal as it is reliant on an unspecified formulation.
Reply to Kells post 12
“ probably tells us how important artificial flavours are in bait.Or are they”
Below is a very honest quotation from John Bakers recent U tube vids
“It isn't really the flavour catching it for you its the base mix”
There you are straight from the horses mouth so to speak, after many,many years of involvement in the “ scientific “ side of carp bait and actual carp fishing all over the world I completely agree with that statement.
My advice would be don't waste your money on expensive flavours consisting of volatile organic chemicals labelled with “ fruit “ names or other nomenclature.
Your money would be better spent on ensuring you have a “top notch “ base mix where the composition is fully declared/understood.
I do accept though that at the end of the day it is all down to personal belief/choice.
In reply to Post #13
I agree, it's the make up of the flavour that catches not the flavour itself, take the original Scopex, based around Diacetyl, the current guidelines for shelf life if stored correctly is 12 months. Hence most if not all original Hutchy/Catchum Scopex will be well passed it's best, whether it still catches? Who knows!! 50/50 I guess.. if you want to use an old favourite flavour crack on, but as the likes of forgotten flavours do as well as myself just use a very small amount of the original mixed with more modern attractors again at low levels.
I agree, it's the make up of the flavour that catches not the flavour itself, take the original Scopex, based around Diacetyl, the current guidelines for shelf life if stored correctly is 12 months. Hence most if not all original Hutchy/Catchum Scopex will be well passed it's best, whether it still catches? Who knows!! 50/50 I guess.. if you want to use an old favourite flavour crack on, but as the likes of forgotten flavours do as well as myself just use a very small amount of the original mixed with more modern attractors again at low levels.
In reply to Post #13
Below is a very honest quotation from John Bakers recent U tube vids
“It isn't really the flavour catching it for you its the base mix”
If we as anglers, spend our hard earned and believe and trust the JB & HNV bait principle that is great, so why does JB sell many flavours, if his base mixes don't need them to catch ?
Below is a very honest quotation from John Bakers recent U tube vids
“It isn't really the flavour catching it for you its the base mix”
If we as anglers, spend our hard earned and believe and trust the JB & HNV bait principle that is great, so why does JB sell many flavours, if his base mixes don't need them to catch ?
In reply to Post #15
Prob because he knows most anglers haven't got the confidence to fish without them
Prob because he knows most anglers haven't got the confidence to fish without them
In reply to Post #15
“ if we as anglers, spend our hard earned and believe and trust the JB & HNV bait principle that is great, so why does JB sell many flavours, if his base mixes don't need them to catch”
That is a question best directed at John
I can tell you though that I have been involved with several medium sized carp bait companies and I posed a similar question to them during the development/trialling stage of new boilie formulations.
Even though all the analytical and theoretical aspects, selection of base materials, field trials etc were signed off, most of them still insisted that flavour chemicals were added.They accepted that all the evidence from the development programme indicated that the flavour chemicals were not enhancing the boilies in any way; but said that the perceived smell of the boilies was an important marketing tool.
As a very experienced boss of one company told me “ you try selling a boilie that has no smell”
“ if we as anglers, spend our hard earned and believe and trust the JB & HNV bait principle that is great, so why does JB sell many flavours, if his base mixes don't need them to catch”
That is a question best directed at John
I can tell you though that I have been involved with several medium sized carp bait companies and I posed a similar question to them during the development/trialling stage of new boilie formulations.
Even though all the analytical and theoretical aspects, selection of base materials, field trials etc were signed off, most of them still insisted that flavour chemicals were added.They accepted that all the evidence from the development programme indicated that the flavour chemicals were not enhancing the boilies in any way; but said that the perceived smell of the boilies was an important marketing tool.
As a very experienced boss of one company told me “ you try selling a boilie that has no smell”
In reply to Post #17
MM Absolutely spot on post
The reaction of the human nose leads to the brain, that signals the opening of the wallet
Flavours/attractors, Probably doesn't catch any more carp with the ‘smelly chemicals' but catches s**tloads of anglers
MM Absolutely spot on post
The reaction of the human nose leads to the brain, that signals the opening of the wallet
Flavours/attractors, Probably doesn't catch any more carp with the ‘smelly chemicals' but catches s**tloads of anglers
In reply to Post #18
Now I have to disagree, the reason being that a lot of anglers fish short and infrequent sessions. If you are fishing longer sessions, especially if these are regular then perhaps, just perhaps, you don't need flavours.
On shorter one off sessions you want carp to investigate your bait as soon as possible. Flavours help with that aim, well the better ones do. And this is where my experience just does not match the science. I have used many flavours that did not attract carp anywhere as well as others did. If flavours did really not have any effect then they would all be equally a waste a time, but anyone who has experimented with flavours a lot will know some make a great deal of difference.
So if some flavours do work why wouldn't you use them, even if it only made one extra fish sample your bait it's worth it whether on a short or long session.
Now I have to disagree, the reason being that a lot of anglers fish short and infrequent sessions. If you are fishing longer sessions, especially if these are regular then perhaps, just perhaps, you don't need flavours.
On shorter one off sessions you want carp to investigate your bait as soon as possible. Flavours help with that aim, well the better ones do. And this is where my experience just does not match the science. I have used many flavours that did not attract carp anywhere as well as others did. If flavours did really not have any effect then they would all be equally a waste a time, but anyone who has experimented with flavours a lot will know some make a great deal of difference.
So if some flavours do work why wouldn't you use them, even if it only made one extra fish sample your bait it's worth it whether on a short or long session.
Very interesting replies, have decided to sell . I am not going to buy any more Scopex for the moment, as I have some other flavours which need using. So now my bait mix is going to be a completely different flavour. I wonder if It will catch me more fish and maybe bigger. Hopefully !
In reply to Post #2
Out of interest, when did Rod and Nash part company. And when do you think the flavour changed ?
Out of interest, when did Rod and Nash part company. And when do you think the flavour changed ?
In reply to Post #21
1988 in believe? Company became Catchum 88 after that. Rod went and set up on his own I think that's how it went..
1988 in believe? Company became Catchum 88 after that. Rod went and set up on his own I think that's how it went..
In reply to Post #1
Flavour is a lable, with many advantages if used well, fred wilton said if u can smell it its 2 strong, just a thought
Flavour is a lable, with many advantages if used well, fred wilton said if u can smell it its 2 strong, just a thought
In reply to Post #22
From memory it was later than that. I think the split came a couple of years later, around 1990?
From memory it was later than that. I think the split came a couple of years later, around 1990?
In reply to Post #24
Thinking about it now, your right... Catchum88 was set up when Nashy and Hutchy joined forces. Pretty acrimonious split a lot of dirty washing aired in the mags at the time.
Thinking about it now, your right... Catchum88 was set up when Nashy and Hutchy joined forces. Pretty acrimonious split a lot of dirty washing aired in the mags at the time.
In reply to Post #25
I remember those letters in Carpworld....very much dirty linen in public. There was a classic Hutchison comment though. From memory there was some mockery of Kevin due to him being a fair bit shorter than Rod, Rod's closing comment was would you be able to see eye to eye with a man who was obviously wearing high heels!!
I've told that badly, but the actual comment with perspective was hilarious.
I remember those letters in Carpworld....very much dirty linen in public. There was a classic Hutchison comment though. From memory there was some mockery of Kevin due to him being a fair bit shorter than Rod, Rod's closing comment was would you be able to see eye to eye with a man who was obviously wearing high heels!!
I've told that badly, but the actual comment with perspective was hilarious.
In reply to Post #26
Would love to read them letters again. I think Tim Paisley fell out with Nashy over his support for Hutchy at the time. The reason why he gave him the right to reply in his mag.Nothing like a good public fall out is there. Carp fishing isfar to sanitised these days..
.
Would love to read them letters again. I think Tim Paisley fell out with Nashy over his support for Hutchy at the time. The reason why he gave him the right to reply in his mag.Nothing like a good public fall out is there. Carp fishing isfar to sanitised these days..
.
In reply to Post #27
Must say there were some big characters in those days, before the PR machines kicked in!
Must say there were some big characters in those days, before the PR machines kicked in!
In reply to Post #28
Yes Mickey mouse now days
Yes Mickey mouse now days
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