Can somebody tell me, why oh why do some people always tell us to drop the lead. It can be expensive with leads unto £1.60plus a pop, I don't usually drop, but will when the peg is weedy or snaggy. Some though even drop when the lake is clear(Brasenose 1).
In reply to Post #1
Why do you think that anglers sponsored or employed by companies that make/sell leads are dumping leads on every fish. Create a very profitable fashion and increase your sales 10,20, 50 fold and laugh all the way to the bank. Doing long term and irreversible damage to the environment in the process.
Thinking for yourself seems to be a dying art.
Why do you think that anglers sponsored or employed by companies that make/sell leads are dumping leads on every fish. Create a very profitable fashion and increase your sales 10,20, 50 fold and laugh all the way to the bank. Doing long term and irreversible damage to the environment in the process.
Thinking for yourself seems to be a dying art.
In reply to Post #1
I remember a video a few years back (I'm assuming a Thinking Tackle) where Fairbrass was explaining that dropping the lead gave you a better, more direct link to the fish and it helped bring them above the weed (or something similar). I'll admit to being a Fairbrass fan as he has done loads for the sport however that was obviously a very good sales ploy which has worked!
I suppose I can understand it on low stock waters where every fish is the fish of a lifetime, anything that pushes the odds in your favour is great. But on a weedless runs water it will coat you a lot of money and gain you nothing.
I remember a video a few years back (I'm assuming a Thinking Tackle) where Fairbrass was explaining that dropping the lead gave you a better, more direct link to the fish and it helped bring them above the weed (or something similar). I'll admit to being a Fairbrass fan as he has done loads for the sport however that was obviously a very good sales ploy which has worked!
I suppose I can understand it on low stock waters where every fish is the fish of a lifetime, anything that pushes the odds in your favour is great. But on a weedless runs water it will coat you a lot of money and gain you nothing.
The lake I fish is weed and snag free apart from a tiny bit in the margins, every man and his dog "Dump the Lead" and even worse when they have the lead clip set so light, the lead can be dumped from just a small take leading the angler to wind in and boat their rig out again.
Next thing will be changing your main line every time you catch a fish just in case it got damaged.
Next thing will be changing your main line every time you catch a fish just in case it got damaged.
90% of the time it's pointless and plain stupid
In reply to Post #5
100% of the time....
100% of the time....
In reply to Post #1
Also, where are you paying £1.60 a lead? 😂😂
Also, where are you paying £1.60 a lead? 😂😂
In reply to Post #7
I dumped one lead last year, got caught on an island
I only fish semi fixed in line lead, have no intention of dumping leads. Surely if you have a dump lead thing on the very fashionable heli rig, reeling in your hook snags on something I guess you will dump it for that as well 
I dumped one lead last year, got caught on an island
I only fish semi fixed in line lead, have no intention of dumping leads. Surely if you have a dump lead thing on the very fashionable heli rig, reeling in your hook snags on something I guess you will dump it for that as well
In reply to Post #6
The only time I drop a lead intentionally is with a zig as find a lead on a long hooklink causes too many hookpulls for my liking
The only time I drop a lead intentionally is with a zig as find a lead on a long hooklink causes too many hookpulls for my liking
In reply to Post #9
Fish adjustable zigs then. Dropping leads is littering
Fish adjustable zigs then. Dropping leads is littering
In reply to Post #7
I don't pay that much, half that actually, I said it as a generalisation. L look at theAngling Direct website both Korda and Fox average around £1.69, some of the Korda ones are over £2. Shows how they can afford a stag do in Vegas.
I don't pay that much, half that actually, I said it as a generalisation. L look at theAngling Direct website both Korda and Fox average around £1.69, some of the Korda ones are over £2. Shows how they can afford a stag do in Vegas.
In reply to Post #3
Lot of truth in that, they have released some quality products over the years, no doubt, but have also Konditioned a generation or two for me in the process with their DVDs and sales pitch
Lead clips were about before these got hold of them, they just put their own twist to it like they do with a lot of their products, heavily promote them and the sheep just follow.
I used lead core and helicopters for a lot of years before deciding to ditch the lead core, and went over to clips. In the right hands, i.e. dropping a lead on the rare occasion I don't have a problem with, not ideal but they are what they are, dropping them regular is just mental, as well as the impact on the sheep's pockets, the environment is number 1
As for the comment about better contact with the fish, I think what he means is there is no lead so it has less chance of shaking the hook out, in other words, catch at all costs
Lot of truth in that, they have released some quality products over the years, no doubt, but have also Konditioned a generation or two for me in the process with their DVDs and sales pitch
Lead clips were about before these got hold of them, they just put their own twist to it like they do with a lot of their products, heavily promote them and the sheep just follow.
I used lead core and helicopters for a lot of years before deciding to ditch the lead core, and went over to clips. In the right hands, i.e. dropping a lead on the rare occasion I don't have a problem with, not ideal but they are what they are, dropping them regular is just mental, as well as the impact on the sheep's pockets, the environment is number 1
As for the comment about better contact with the fish, I think what he means is there is no lead so it has less chance of shaking the hook out, in other words, catch at all costs
In reply to Post #12
The last four words say it all. Problem in a nutshell.
The last four words say it all. Problem in a nutshell.
I normally use a lead clip set up so the lead will come off if the fish goes into weed but will not come off normally. I don't use very short hooklinks but can see a potential need to drop the lead if you are.
In reply to Post #10
I rarely fish zigs (most of my waters are too shallow and weedy) but did get an adjustable kit last season just not really had a chance to use it
I rarely fish zigs (most of my waters are too shallow and weedy) but did get an adjustable kit last season just not really had a chance to use it
In reply to Post #1
For me it is split. I do not think dropping the lead is a good idea. If everyone on a lake does it then all that happens is there is going to be a lake full of leads. The ones these days by korda and fox are plastic coated, so the lead inside shouldn't (in theory) pollute the lake. But still, this is still littering, and if you wouldn't do it on the bankside then why do it in the lake! But there is another side to this and its to do with lead systems. The lead clip is supposed to be used to drop the lead, and if not can then become a 'death rig'. This is to do with the sleeve that pushes over the lead clip itself. If pushed on all the way, there is no way in hell that the lead is going to disengage from the clip. Now if you snap off or are cut off, if a fish picks that up and gets stuck with that, there is no way it can get away from the lead or leader. It is a similar story with helicopter rigs, except its in reverse. If you use a usual heli rig, where the top bead can slide off, the fish *can* use the weight of the lead to get rid of the entire leader, and just have a rig, which, in some cases can also be lost as well either by being caught or if the rig incorporates a barbless hook. But, if there is no lead, how can it get rid of the leader? There is no resistance for the fish to use to push the top bead off the leader. This is exactly the case with dropping the lead with a heli rig. It is not safe. So in my eyes, the only truly safe lead systems are a running rig, incorporating a rung ring (not with a lead clip with the swivel crushed down) or a running inline lead, and a conventional heli rig, although I have heard that it is not the safest and sometimes when set up correctly can also become a dangerous rig. Sorry for the extremely long message, but I had some thoughts that I wanted to share. I may be wrong in some of my thoughts, but in the end if I do not have to drop the lead I will not, as it is expensive and environmentally damaging. Thank you for taking the time to read this!
For me it is split. I do not think dropping the lead is a good idea. If everyone on a lake does it then all that happens is there is going to be a lake full of leads. The ones these days by korda and fox are plastic coated, so the lead inside shouldn't (in theory) pollute the lake. But still, this is still littering, and if you wouldn't do it on the bankside then why do it in the lake! But there is another side to this and its to do with lead systems. The lead clip is supposed to be used to drop the lead, and if not can then become a 'death rig'. This is to do with the sleeve that pushes over the lead clip itself. If pushed on all the way, there is no way in hell that the lead is going to disengage from the clip. Now if you snap off or are cut off, if a fish picks that up and gets stuck with that, there is no way it can get away from the lead or leader. It is a similar story with helicopter rigs, except its in reverse. If you use a usual heli rig, where the top bead can slide off, the fish *can* use the weight of the lead to get rid of the entire leader, and just have a rig, which, in some cases can also be lost as well either by being caught or if the rig incorporates a barbless hook. But, if there is no lead, how can it get rid of the leader? There is no resistance for the fish to use to push the top bead off the leader. This is exactly the case with dropping the lead with a heli rig. It is not safe. So in my eyes, the only truly safe lead systems are a running rig, incorporating a rung ring (not with a lead clip with the swivel crushed down) or a running inline lead, and a conventional heli rig, although I have heard that it is not the safest and sometimes when set up correctly can also become a dangerous rig. Sorry for the extremely long message, but I had some thoughts that I wanted to share. I may be wrong in some of my thoughts, but in the end if I do not have to drop the lead I will not, as it is expensive and environmentally damaging. Thank you for taking the time to read this!
In reply to Post #12
Problem is, you can't really blame them to some extent. As a business if you are in a position to make profit then most people would. The discussion is being had at the moment as to whether dropping the leads is harmful, places like Grenville almost insist on the lead being dropped every fish. There is definitely a discussion to be had but I'm sure if it was harmful to water quality there wouldn't be venues that reccomend it for fish welfare.
However, as I've mentioned, I do use a lead clip, but I fish it fairly tight (not rammed on) so I don't lose the lead every fish, I just want to know it could drop in the event of a snag etc
Problem is, you can't really blame them to some extent. As a business if you are in a position to make profit then most people would. The discussion is being had at the moment as to whether dropping the leads is harmful, places like Grenville almost insist on the lead being dropped every fish. There is definitely a discussion to be had but I'm sure if it was harmful to water quality there wouldn't be venues that reccomend it for fish welfare.
However, as I've mentioned, I do use a lead clip, but I fish it fairly tight (not rammed on) so I don't lose the lead every fish, I just want to know it could drop in the event of a snag etc
In reply to Post #17
discussion is being had at the moment as to whether dropping the leads is harmful, places like Grenville almost insist on the lead being dropped every fish
The discussion has been raised on here years ago, and many times too!
As for the manufacturers. They put products out and promote them, by promoting them are encouraging people to follow them, and they do!
discussion is being had at the moment as to whether dropping the leads is harmful, places like Grenville almost insist on the lead being dropped every fish
The discussion has been raised on here years ago, and many times too!
As for the manufacturers. They put products out and promote them, by promoting them are encouraging people to follow them, and they do!
In reply to Post #18
Unless it's weedy I never drop the lead and I fish helicopters 99% of the time no issues landing big fish with leads on it's just like all rig stuff etc it's all designed to make money catching the angler comes before the fish for them
Unless it's weedy I never drop the lead and I fish helicopters 99% of the time no issues landing big fish with leads on it's just like all rig stuff etc it's all designed to make money catching the angler comes before the fish for them
In reply to Post #19
I understand the profit bit being a compny in business but, if firms like Taylors lead lounge only charge 80p or so for a lead, and still make a profit, why can't Korda and co charge the same instead of charging twice as much. I know were to buy my leads.
I understand the profit bit being a compny in business but, if firms like Taylors lead lounge only charge 80p or so for a lead, and still make a profit, why can't Korda and co charge the same instead of charging twice as much. I know were to buy my leads.
In reply to Post #20
Because Taylors, and many others on the internet, haven't got big business units, key point is, they are sell direct to the customer.
They haven't got to sell through/to shops, sell at trade price, then the shops make their mark up, pay Taxes, VAT, wages, rent, stock, bills.
Thats why they are cheaper, smaller overheads, R&D, ETC.
Because Taylors, and many others on the internet, haven't got big business units, key point is, they are sell direct to the customer.
They haven't got to sell through/to shops, sell at trade price, then the shops make their mark up, pay Taxes, VAT, wages, rent, stock, bills.
Thats why they are cheaper, smaller overheads, R&D, ETC.
In reply to Post #17
There is no defence for putting lead into the environment, it is lethally harmful in the air, water and soil. Science and industry have been aware of this for at least 150 years. In that time it has killed tens of thousands of people in some dreadful ways and is harming many more as we speak.
It has been banned in petrol, canning, ceramics, paint, water supply, putty and other external seals and fillers, electrical insulation, solder, squeezy tubes, shotgun cartridges, split shot for angling, the list goes on.
We are at a stage where angling is introducing metallic lead into the aquatic environment in metric tonnes per year.it does not go away, it cannot be got rid of. Coating on the lead is just
misleading rubbish.those leads will still be there in a thousand years dissolving into and poisoning the environment
If you know you are going to drop the lead you should be using a non toxic substitute and they are available. Korda, Nash, Gardner, Fox and the rest should be taking the lead on this and it is shameful they are not.
Cynical, self serving, greedy people and the sheep they sell to who thoughtlessly accept every specious excuse will and are destroying our environment. Don't feel like being polite about this any more.
There is no defence for putting lead into the environment, it is lethally harmful in the air, water and soil. Science and industry have been aware of this for at least 150 years. In that time it has killed tens of thousands of people in some dreadful ways and is harming many more as we speak.
It has been banned in petrol, canning, ceramics, paint, water supply, putty and other external seals and fillers, electrical insulation, solder, squeezy tubes, shotgun cartridges, split shot for angling, the list goes on.
We are at a stage where angling is introducing metallic lead into the aquatic environment in metric tonnes per year.it does not go away, it cannot be got rid of. Coating on the lead is just
misleading rubbish.those leads will still be there in a thousand years dissolving into and poisoning the environment
If you know you are going to drop the lead you should be using a non toxic substitute and they are available. Korda, Nash, Gardner, Fox and the rest should be taking the lead on this and it is shameful they are not.
Cynical, self serving, greedy people and the sheep they sell to who thoughtlessly accept every specious excuse will and are destroying our environment. Don't feel like being polite about this any more.
In reply to Post #22
Totally agree with you, they should be ashamed.
Totally agree with you, they should be ashamed.
In reply to Post #9
It's only expensive if you get bites 😜
It's only expensive if you get bites 😜
I was shown how to drop an in line lead years ago and was to tight to do it. Upset me loosing a lead when using Nash's lead clip. When Korda came along and whaled on about it I just laughed at them and felt said for those that they where fishing for.
At the end of a session I swim out and pick up any baits that's left.
At the end of a session I swim out and pick up any baits that's left.
In reply to Post #25
I don't normally drop the lead but fished a venue in France that insisted on it. I thought I'd give inline drop offs a go, that didn't last long, not so easy to adjust the tension, lost far too many and I wasn't even catching.
I don't normally drop the lead but fished a venue in France that insisted on it. I thought I'd give inline drop offs a go, that didn't last long, not so easy to adjust the tension, lost far too many and I wasn't even catching.
In reply to Post #1
It does help to bring um up to the surface when fishing in heavy weed .
Helped me catch 2 good forties last year in very very heavy weed both hit the surface upon hitting the rod .
The amount weed that was in the landing net each time had me frantically pulling it apart to find the fish.
No other way of getting them in without them hitting the top first.
It does help to bring um up to the surface when fishing in heavy weed .
Helped me catch 2 good forties last year in very very heavy weed both hit the surface upon hitting the rod .
The amount weed that was in the landing net each time had me frantically pulling it apart to find the fish.
No other way of getting them in without them hitting the top first.
In reply to Post #27
How did we ever used to land these fish before dropping leads eh??!!
How did we ever used to land these fish before dropping leads eh??!!
In reply to Post #28
Easily and cheaply
Easily and cheaply
In reply to Post #29
I know right
.
I know right
.
In reply to Post #1
Its carpy 2 drop your lead
Its carpy 2 drop your lead
Its inevitable that the use of lead in fishing is going to be banned the ways things are going, its just a case of when. The supporters of "Dump the Lead" are not helping and just fuelling the situation. And then you have Pallatrax who are in full support of a ban and pushing for it.....but their interests are in hoping they will get rich by selling lots of "Swivels glued to Rocks". Angling needs to clean up its act and starting with banning "Dump a Lead".
It was also announced today that the Government is going to consider banning lead shot in shooting which could take up to 8 years to implement. And once that ball starts rolling, the "Eco save the World Warriors" will no doubt turn their eye to ban lead in angling.
https://www.carpfeed.com/fishing-news/article/is-the-end-near-for-lead-weights-in-fishing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9391225/Biggest-shake-500-years-game-shooting-ban-looms-toxic-lead-shot.html
It was also announced today that the Government is going to consider banning lead shot in shooting which could take up to 8 years to implement. And once that ball starts rolling, the "Eco save the World Warriors" will no doubt turn their eye to ban lead in angling.
https://www.carpfeed.com/fishing-news/article/is-the-end-near-for-lead-weights-in-fishing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9391225/Biggest-shake-500-years-game-shooting-ban-looms-toxic-lead-shot.html
In reply to Post #28
With some of them we didn't.
With some of them we didn't.
In reply to Post #28
With some of them we didn't.
Each to there own .
With some of them we didn't.
Each to there own .
In reply to Post #6
I believe it is situational.
No reason to drop leads on well managed UK waters.
Every reason on big, unkempt wild US lakes to get big hard fighting fish up in the water before they find a sunken tree or sharp dropoff.
I lost a few fish before I deployed MCF Dumper clips. Also use 'em on certain weedy French waters where bites are few.
We don't do carp fashion much over here, just function.
I believe it is situational.
No reason to drop leads on well managed UK waters.
Every reason on big, unkempt wild US lakes to get big hard fighting fish up in the water before they find a sunken tree or sharp dropoff.
I lost a few fish before I deployed MCF Dumper clips. Also use 'em on certain weedy French waters where bites are few.
We don't do carp fashion much over here, just function.
In reply to Post #35
Do you boat your rigs out?
Do you boat your rigs out?
In reply to Post #1
the same companies that are pushing the ronnie with its multitude of different component parts. All about the cash. Amazes me how they play the "fish safety card" yet not fussed about dumping lead at the bottom of a lake. 😬
the same companies that are pushing the ronnie with its multitude of different component parts. All about the cash. Amazes me how they play the "fish safety card" yet not fussed about dumping lead at the bottom of a lake. 😬
In reply to Post #1
Why drop the lead even when fishing in weed? If a 20lb fish wants to bury into weed, it will do, regardless of whether or not you have a lead attached.
Why drop the lead even when fishing in weed? If a 20lb fish wants to bury into weed, it will do, regardless of whether or not you have a lead attached.
In reply to Post #32
When lead is banned and the replacement material is 10 x the price the same manufacturers will bring out a means of ensuring you never lose a weight. I don't know how they will then say it's for fish safety. Bet they try though.
When lead is banned and the replacement material is 10 x the price the same manufacturers will bring out a means of ensuring you never lose a weight. I don't know how they will then say it's for fish safety. Bet they try though.
In reply to Post #38
But you are assuming that the user are using/buying the companies leads.
But you are assuming that the user are using/buying the companies leads.
In reply to Post #38
jokes on them when I sharpen the same hook for 6 months and then if I have to change it I reuse everything as I can't be arsed to find all the bits LOL.
jokes on them when I sharpen the same hook for 6 months and then if I have to change it I reuse everything as I can't be arsed to find all the bits LOL.
Do you throw your rubbish on the ground?
So why 'throw' or litter by dumping the lead?
No need in most cases.
The plastic coating over time gets brittle, or will get trashed and cracked by hitting gravel or hard ground. If that comes off the lead, the lead can possibly or probably react with the water. Most lakes or even rivers are not a perfect 7 neutral pH, they are already acidic or alkaline (I think the best growth rates for fish are in slight alkaline between 7.5 to 8)
Even alkali's can be corrosive.
We are already having issues with plastics in the environment.
So why 'throw' or litter by dumping the lead?
No need in most cases.
The plastic coating over time gets brittle, or will get trashed and cracked by hitting gravel or hard ground. If that comes off the lead, the lead can possibly or probably react with the water. Most lakes or even rivers are not a perfect 7 neutral pH, they are already acidic or alkaline (I think the best growth rates for fish are in slight alkaline between 7.5 to 8)
Even alkali's can be corrosive.
We are already having issues with plastics in the environment.
In reply to Post #43
Totally agree with you Nick.
Totally agree with you Nick.
In reply to Post #43
Some rivers and canals are still lined with asbestos sheets and they do no harm
Some rivers and canals are still lined with asbestos sheets and they do no harm
In reply to Post #45
This is unfortunately not true. Water treatment plants are required to test for asbestos in the water supply and the max permitted levels are very low due to the toxicity of the fibres. Banned in the UK with very tight legislation on its handling and removal. A lot of work is currently being done to try and overcome some severe problems with contamination of drinking water supplies in parts of the US. Nasty carcinogenic stuff that was extensively used in many ways until the sixties and just like lead has left a massive and ongoing negative impact on the environment we all share.
This is unfortunately not true. Water treatment plants are required to test for asbestos in the water supply and the max permitted levels are very low due to the toxicity of the fibres. Banned in the UK with very tight legislation on its handling and removal. A lot of work is currently being done to try and overcome some severe problems with contamination of drinking water supplies in parts of the US. Nasty carcinogenic stuff that was extensively used in many ways until the sixties and just like lead has left a massive and ongoing negative impact on the environment we all share.
In reply to Post #46
Just a thought, Magoo would know the answer. Isn't asbestos only dangerous in the air, if you were to drink it would enter the lungs?
Just a thought, Magoo would know the answer. Isn't asbestos only dangerous in the air, if you were to drink it would enter the lungs?
In reply to Post #47
That is the question. Fossil fuels defended by oil company funded research, likewise tobacco, lead, chemical, plastic and other companies. Two scientists who did major research for the WHO later got top jobs in the asbestos industry.
We are not all going to die of cancer tomorrow but there is growing evidence that asbestos fibres can cause cancers through ingestion as well as inhalation.
Just saying it is not safe and there is no room for complacency with regard to water quality. There is a lot of nasty sh*t out there and a lot of people with personal(financial) agendas and powerful and sophisticated, well funded lobby groups in support.
That is the question. Fossil fuels defended by oil company funded research, likewise tobacco, lead, chemical, plastic and other companies. Two scientists who did major research for the WHO later got top jobs in the asbestos industry.
We are not all going to die of cancer tomorrow but there is growing evidence that asbestos fibres can cause cancers through ingestion as well as inhalation.
Just saying it is not safe and there is no room for complacency with regard to water quality. There is a lot of nasty sh*t out there and a lot of people with personal(financial) agendas and powerful and sophisticated, well funded lobby groups in support.
In reply to Post #1
No need to drop lead specifically unless there is a REAL reason to. Never dropped a lead in my life, lost very few fish and never lost a fish as a consequence of NOT dropping lead. Marketing in most instances for me.
No need to drop lead specifically unless there is a REAL reason to. Never dropped a lead in my life, lost very few fish and never lost a fish as a consequence of NOT dropping lead. Marketing in most instances for me.
On dropping the lead, anyone used the fox alternative to the Korda heli safe?
In reply to Post #50
That's what I sue but I don't drop the lead, I use the little insert to stop the lead dropping off, only reason I don't overly like the heli safe is because when i hit the clip for some reason the lead fell off a couple times
That's what I sue but I don't drop the lead, I use the little insert to stop the lead dropping off, only reason I don't overly like the heli safe is because when i hit the clip for some reason the lead fell off a couple times
Even the likes of Danny fairbrass have had to reiterate that most of the time there is zero need to drop the lead, only if your fishing a weed choked lake(ie spot fishing to holes in very very thick weed) and snaggy conditions where getting the fish on the surface quickly is key and finally stalking with big heavy leads with short hooklinks, don't want a 5oz inline swinging around by the eyes
Do you remember that Tom Maker film on St Johns where he had a load of fish and was dropping the lead on every single take? Everyone was going 'great angling etc etc', I worked out that in that session he dropped 11.5lbs of lead in the lake, good angling my arse 
In reply to Post #53
I did and had the same thought st Johns can be weedy but not bad enough to drop the lead on the take every time
I did and had the same thought st Johns can be weedy but not bad enough to drop the lead on the take every time
In reply to Post #53
Imagine just how many leads are at the bottom of lakes now that have been dropped since its become trendy to do so in the last 10 years. Unbelievable really.
Imagine just how many leads are at the bottom of lakes now that have been dropped since its become trendy to do so in the last 10 years. Unbelievable really.
In reply to Post #55
To be honest most of the big companies use a coating that's decent and lasts years but so many smaller ones don't..
To be honest most of the big companies use a coating that's decent and lasts years but so many smaller ones don't..
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