This is very interesting >>Power vs Test Curve<<
So, it's a myth that you'll get hook pulls in the margins with 3 3/4 rods whereas you're more likely to with a 2 3/4 rod. Comfy.
So, it's a myth that you'll get hook pulls in the margins with 3 3/4 rods whereas you're more likely to with a 2 3/4 rod. Comfy.
In reply to Post #1
This video has often been quoted but there is a massive and glaringly obvious flaw...
Lee Jackson is using braid mainline on the lighter rod and the heavier test curve rod has mono main line on it.
This video has often been quoted but there is a massive and glaringly obvious flaw...
Lee Jackson is using braid mainline on the lighter rod and the heavier test curve rod has mono main line on it.
In reply to Post #1
Load of unscientific rubbish. He was pulling at quite a shallow angle with the lighter rod.
I could pull 20 lb with my spinning rod if I held it flat.
Load of unscientific rubbish. He was pulling at quite a shallow angle with the lighter rod.
I could pull 20 lb with my spinning rod if I held it flat.
So riddle me this:
Why do big cat guys use through action rods instead of equally powerful fast tapers for instance?
Also,.as highlighted in linked video, now you know why guys get muh hook pulls with braid...
Why do big cat guys use through action rods instead of equally powerful fast tapers for instance?
Also,.as highlighted in linked video, now you know why guys get muh hook pulls with braid...
In reply to Post #4
Because the more through action the more the rod bends, the more the rod bends the shorter it gets, the shorter it gets the harder you can pull with it.
Because the more through action the more the rod bends, the more the rod bends the shorter it gets, the shorter it gets the harder you can pull with it.
In reply to Post #4
The shorter the lever the more powerful the pull. A shorter through/ parabolic action rod will have more pull than a long fast taper rod.
The shorter the lever the more powerful the pull. A shorter through/ parabolic action rod will have more pull than a long fast taper rod.
It's a clumsy way of saying the rod which bends to become the shortest lever pulls the hardest. Simple physics in the same way a long spanner will undo a tight nut, except you are the nut and the fish has the spanner working in their favour.
Not as simple as TC impacting it.
A 2.75 tip on a stiff parallel butt section will be a 2.75 rod but won't pull as hard as a 3.5-4lb blank which bends to become shorter.
Hook pulls are tosh though, fish wouldn't have mouths left if hooks were pulling out. It's just not hooked properly in the first place. Especially with a fast action long rod which probably pulls about 1lb at any sort of range and won't set the hook
Beaten to it, agree with last 2 posts
Not as simple as TC impacting it.
A 2.75 tip on a stiff parallel butt section will be a 2.75 rod but won't pull as hard as a 3.5-4lb blank which bends to become shorter.
Hook pulls are tosh though, fish wouldn't have mouths left if hooks were pulling out. It's just not hooked properly in the first place. Especially with a fast action long rod which probably pulls about 1lb at any sort of range and won't set the hook
Beaten to it, agree with last 2 posts
In reply to Post #5
So less hook pulls with faster tapers...nice 👌
So less hook pulls with faster tapers...nice 👌
In reply to Post #4
Assuming both rods are held at the same angle ( unlike in the video we wasted our time looking at) its easier to exert more pressure with a through action rod with the same tc. Better leverage.
Assuming both rods are held at the same angle ( unlike in the video we wasted our time looking at) its easier to exert more pressure with a through action rod with the same tc. Better leverage.
In reply to Post #8
But more chance of the fish finding a snag-not so nice
But more chance of the fish finding a snag-not so nice
There's no such thing as a more powerful rod.
It's a stick
A long stick that doesn't bend casts further
A short stick that does bend translates more of your effort to the other end
Someone with a long stick that doesn't bend feels like they're pulling the fish's head off so goes easy at the net, next to no pressure on hook, PING
It's a stick
A long stick that doesn't bend casts further
A short stick that does bend translates more of your effort to the other end
Someone with a long stick that doesn't bend feels like they're pulling the fish's head off so goes easy at the net, next to no pressure on hook, PING
In reply to Post #11
In reply to Post #11
There's a reason you see people playing fish from the spigot and it's not because they're attached to a runaway train.
One of the craziest things I see is people boating/bait boating rigs out a couple of hundred yards. Then see they've a set of acrow jack fast taper mega high TC rods on the pod
There's a reason you see people playing fish from the spigot and it's not because they're attached to a runaway train.
One of the craziest things I see is people boating/bait boating rigs out a couple of hundred yards. Then see they've a set of acrow jack fast taper mega high TC rods on the pod
In reply to Post #11
Thats about right 👍
My reply to post 1 rubbish .
Thats about right 👍
My reply to post 1 rubbish .
In reply to Post #11
yep - just that
the reason why people use so many different rods for so many different types of fish / water / weather / day of the week is very simply ...... 'marketing'
technique will always override the supposed extra quality of any 'stick'
yep - just that
the reason why people use so many different rods for so many different types of fish / water / weather / day of the week is very simply ...... 'marketing'
technique will always override the supposed extra quality of any 'stick'
In reply to Post #15
As I have found out after purchasing numerous sets of rods and still not able to cast long distances accurately. Should have asked Mr Edmonds first.
As I have found out after purchasing numerous sets of rods and still not able to cast long distances accurately. Should have asked Mr Edmonds first.
In reply to Post #15
Far from it.
I would never be able to hit 180yds with my Dymag Stalker rods, where I can with my Trebuchets. The simple fact is, a certain tool for a specific job, irrespective of marketing spiel.
The advancements of materials will have an effect. The effects might be marginal, or they might be considerable i.e lighter and less tiring to use as an example, they could also be a load of old cobblers like you're suggesting 👍
Far from it.
I would never be able to hit 180yds with my Dymag Stalker rods, where I can with my Trebuchets. The simple fact is, a certain tool for a specific job, irrespective of marketing spiel.
The advancements of materials will have an effect. The effects might be marginal, or they might be considerable i.e lighter and less tiring to use as an example, they could also be a load of old cobblers like you're suggesting 👍
In reply to Post #17
What line are you hitting 180 yards with?
Because 3 weeks ago “151.8yds measured with a surveyors wheel” was your limit
What line are you hitting 180 yards with?
Because 3 weeks ago “151.8yds measured with a surveyors wheel” was your limit
In reply to Post #18
That 151 was with 15lb mono and mono leader, that 180 was with 12lb Syncro XT to the clip and braided leader with a gentle tail/ cross wind, so it's less if measured I'd say.👍
That 151 was with 15lb mono and mono leader, that 180 was with 12lb Syncro XT to the clip and braided leader with a gentle tail/ cross wind, so it's less if measured I'd say.👍
In reply to Post #19
If you measure on clip just wait for stronger wind you will be doing 200 in no time.
If you measure on clip just wait for stronger wind you will be doing 200 in no time.
In reply to Post #20
Around 170 to 180 is where I need to get as I'm using.it as an edge where none of the other anglers can cast to that I've seen on my place. Getting bait to that range is the tricksy part. Was hitting the clip at 173 with a Fox medium spod in near perfect conditions, apparently the medium Spombs go further.
My weedy arms are still fugged from the weekend blasting that mad heavy spod rod I've got
Around 170 to 180 is where I need to get as I'm using.it as an edge where none of the other anglers can cast to that I've seen on my place. Getting bait to that range is the tricksy part. Was hitting the clip at 173 with a Fox medium spod in near perfect conditions, apparently the medium Spombs go further.
My weedy arms are still fugged from the weekend blasting that mad heavy spod rod I've got
In reply to Post #13
spot on you still see that on 1 acre waters torrix te ,s everywhere ,its strange why people have to ask .Maybe lots of them are instant carpers who bought casting rods from the start without ever having much fishing experience and are just used to the feeling of winching fish in .Maybe they are also suffer optical illusions when claiming their rods bend through when fish are under the tip.To be fair in some early df videos he was creaming himself over the playing action on infinities whilst his rod was virtually poker straight i remember laughing about it at the time and thinking he is either deluded or on a promotion pitch
spot on you still see that on 1 acre waters torrix te ,s everywhere ,its strange why people have to ask .Maybe lots of them are instant carpers who bought casting rods from the start without ever having much fishing experience and are just used to the feeling of winching fish in .Maybe they are also suffer optical illusions when claiming their rods bend through when fish are under the tip.To be fair in some early df videos he was creaming himself over the playing action on infinities whilst his rod was virtually poker straight i remember laughing about it at the time and thinking he is either deluded or on a promotion pitch
In reply to Post #22
To be fair, if I could only have one set of carp rods I'd have 3.25 tc, you can fish close with heavier rods, but can't fish at range with light ones
To be fair, if I could only have one set of carp rods I'd have 3.25 tc, you can fish close with heavier rods, but can't fish at range with light ones
In reply to Post #23
In 3.25 for me I'd choose Free Spirit XS or Harrison Torrix in 12ft.
The people I mean clearly have plenty of money mate.
In 3.25 for me I'd choose Free Spirit XS or Harrison Torrix in 12ft.
The people I mean clearly have plenty of money mate.
For years I didn't believe that long, stiff rods could be exerting less force than shorter through actioned rods. Common sense and experience showed this must be wrong.
Then i caught carp on light, short fly rods (but using normal carp hooks and full strength line). There was no feeling of being in charge, but they hardly ever had a long run and were under much more control.
Then some one on the forum suggested that I google 3rd class lever. Then it all made sense. Shorter levers will let you exert more force with lower perceived effort. Physics and common sense don't always agree!
I am guessing that there is also a complex interplay about the flex in the rod and the elasticity of the line. My guess is that a shorter with with a more elastic ro-and-line combination is the optimum power and reducing hook-pull combination.
Obviously y fishing tight to a snag adds another layer of complexity to this equation, which is why we end up buying so many rods!!
Then i caught carp on light, short fly rods (but using normal carp hooks and full strength line). There was no feeling of being in charge, but they hardly ever had a long run and were under much more control.
Then some one on the forum suggested that I google 3rd class lever. Then it all made sense. Shorter levers will let you exert more force with lower perceived effort. Physics and common sense don't always agree!
I am guessing that there is also a complex interplay about the flex in the rod and the elasticity of the line. My guess is that a shorter with with a more elastic ro-and-line combination is the optimum power and reducing hook-pull combination.
Obviously y fishing tight to a snag adds another layer of complexity to this equation, which is why we end up buying so many rods!!
In reply to Post #26
I've said it before but a simple bucket test will show you what's going on
Take a heavy rod and tie the line to a bucket, top it up with water until you cant/won't lift it
Then tie a light rod to the same bucket and you'll lift it easily
Thinking about hook pulls at the net though, with my light rods they'll still absorb lunges with the line at 180°, stiffer rods will be putting less pressure during the fight, but at the moment of netting the line will be at an acute angle, the leverage will be factored out and you'll have very little flex to absorb and shocks
I've said it before but a simple bucket test will show you what's going on
Take a heavy rod and tie the line to a bucket, top it up with water until you cant/won't lift it
Then tie a light rod to the same bucket and you'll lift it easily
Thinking about hook pulls at the net though, with my light rods they'll still absorb lunges with the line at 180°, stiffer rods will be putting less pressure during the fight, but at the moment of netting the line will be at an acute angle, the leverage will be factored out and you'll have very little flex to absorb and shocks
In reply to Post #6
Spot on - that's why my cat rods are only 10'6", 4lb TC. Action is very progressive, bending almost into the butt, although it takes a very decent fish to fully compress them. If I used, say my 12ft Hi S ER's for cats, I'd be taking twice as long to get fish to the net.
Spot on - that's why my cat rods are only 10'6", 4lb TC. Action is very progressive, bending almost into the butt, although it takes a very decent fish to fully compress them. If I used, say my 12ft Hi S ER's for cats, I'd be taking twice as long to get fish to the net.
In reply to Post #15
Don't agree with that at all and frankly codswallop mate. I use a fast taper for distance fishing as the whole purpose of using such a rod is to cast - you have to be quite careful with them if a fish gets lively at the net, those are 12ft Hi S ER's. I use 12ft ES for margin to 60-70 yards, much better suited to shorter distances and absorbing lunges close in. Then I have 10ft Hi S 2 3/4 for fishing smaller waters and those are very handy for fishing with trees over your head. Then for floater fishing you want rods with soft tips, as often I am using very light lines - those are a pair of 11ft Hi s 2 1/4. Marketing has jack sh1t to do with it. Horses for courses. When ever I see people using a big pit and long range rod for all their fishing, frankly I just think... noddy.
Don't agree with that at all and frankly codswallop mate. I use a fast taper for distance fishing as the whole purpose of using such a rod is to cast - you have to be quite careful with them if a fish gets lively at the net, those are 12ft Hi S ER's. I use 12ft ES for margin to 60-70 yards, much better suited to shorter distances and absorbing lunges close in. Then I have 10ft Hi S 2 3/4 for fishing smaller waters and those are very handy for fishing with trees over your head. Then for floater fishing you want rods with soft tips, as often I am using very light lines - those are a pair of 11ft Hi s 2 1/4. Marketing has jack sh1t to do with it. Horses for courses. When ever I see people using a big pit and long range rod for all their fishing, frankly I just think... noddy.
In reply to Post #27
Oh ... you're right. Add another variable (line angle) to the equation and really confuse me!
Oh ... you're right. Add another variable (line angle) to the equation and really confuse me!
In reply to Post #29
Meh whatever
Those older - proper - anglers could catch a 30lb plus carp with a split cane Rod and a centrepin reel. Because they had proper technique.
Doesn't matter how many different rods you use, technique is the overriding factor be that casting, playing a fish etc.
I never said you should use a big pit set up for float fishing. And yes a shorter Rod can be useful if there are trees... but so can varied technique if you only have 12 foot rods.
I could borrow Usain Bolt's trainers but I won't be running the 100m in under 10 seconds. Whereas he could borrow mine and still leave me eating his dust and chicken nuggets.
Meh whatever
Those older - proper - anglers could catch a 30lb plus carp with a split cane Rod and a centrepin reel. Because they had proper technique.
Doesn't matter how many different rods you use, technique is the overriding factor be that casting, playing a fish etc.
I never said you should use a big pit set up for float fishing. And yes a shorter Rod can be useful if there are trees... but so can varied technique if you only have 12 foot rods.
I could borrow Usain Bolt's trainers but I won't be running the 100m in under 10 seconds. Whereas he could borrow mine and still leave me eating his dust and chicken nuggets.
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