I'm making some metalware for myself to get the form and function I want, and something has occurred to me....
Why do we use banksticks/buzz bars that are actually designed to twist?
While I'm questioning obvious design flaws, why do all the digging sticks have the same crap Tommy bar handle design that leaves a metal stud digging into your palm when you push it in?
Why do we use banksticks/buzz bars that are actually designed to twist?
While I'm questioning obvious design flaws, why do all the digging sticks have the same crap Tommy bar handle design that leaves a metal stud digging into your palm when you push it in?
In reply to Post #1
Because most “consultants” only care about the money in their pocket and are too scared to say it's crap if it's crap.
Because most “consultants” only care about the money in their pocket and are too scared to say it's crap if it's crap.
In reply to Post #1
Easy of manufacture and low cost would be the obvious answer.
So easy to weld the T handle to enable it to be pushed into the ground and turned without putting a dent in your palm. The same applies to a bank stick with a flat to stop it twisting.
I see a lot of poor design that is overpriced with a “must have carp name “on it.
Easy of manufacture and low cost would be the obvious answer.
So easy to weld the T handle to enable it to be pushed into the ground and turned without putting a dent in your palm. The same applies to a bank stick with a flat to stop it twisting.
I see a lot of poor design that is overpriced with a “must have carp name “on it.
In reply to Post #3
I've got an idea for a nice folding handle digging stick, but with a woodbutchers tool kit I'll probably just do some hardwood sleeves for my jag one to lose the lump. I was actually surprised to see that lazy design from jag tbh
Im going for square bar for the bank stick inners, and doing something similar to the mpe square connections to lose the threads at the junctions, I've just got to figure out how to broach the holes accurately. If I can mill the brass I'll use for fittings with a router it should be easy enough, just leaving 1.5mm ish in the corners to deal with
I did want to use titanium but it was ridiculously expensive for the small quantity and probably beyond my tools to machine
I've got an idea for a nice folding handle digging stick, but with a woodbutchers tool kit I'll probably just do some hardwood sleeves for my jag one to lose the lump. I was actually surprised to see that lazy design from jag tbh
Im going for square bar for the bank stick inners, and doing something similar to the mpe square connections to lose the threads at the junctions, I've just got to figure out how to broach the holes accurately. If I can mill the brass I'll use for fittings with a router it should be easy enough, just leaving 1.5mm ish in the corners to deal with
I did want to use titanium but it was ridiculously expensive for the small quantity and probably beyond my tools to machine
In reply to Post #4
What it could do with is the domed palm saver attached to it
I have the matrix one
What it could do with is the domed palm saver attached to it
I have the matrix one
In reply to Post #5
So it's profiteering, you have to buy an accessory to make it fit for purpose
So it's profiteering, you have to buy an accessory to make it fit for purpose
In reply to Post #6
No
The palm saver wont go into it unless you adapt it and then ditch the level which comes with the palm saver anyway
Ps the red palm save takes a 3/8 BS F' thread perfectly so it can be used on other sticks lol
No
The palm saver wont go into it unless you adapt it and then ditch the level which comes with the palm saver anyway
Ps the red palm save takes a 3/8 BS F' thread perfectly so it can be used on other sticks lol
Gardner used to a palm saver, think they called it a "Hammerhead" and it just inserted into top of bank stick. I still have mine in my bag.
I bought aluminium bank sticks for the river from Interlok or Karsten Engineering I think they are called. Superb quality and they have a milled groove so the inner can't twist at all, even when they are sliding up and down.
In reply to Post #9
That's a nice simple solution
Does it still use a thread for the buzz bar? That's the main twist point I want to do away with
That's a nice simple solution
Does it still use a thread for the buzz bar? That's the main twist point I want to do away with
In reply to Post #10
A nice system like a ratchet (socket set) would be great
A nice system like a ratchet (socket set) would be great
In reply to Post #10
Why does nobody use a push on snag bar with a key way to avoid twist. No need to tighten it up
Why does nobody use a push on snag bar with a key way to avoid twist. No need to tighten it up
In reply to Post #11
I like that idea, I wouldn't be able to work to the tight tolerances necessary to do it with my tools tho unfortunately.
The mpe system is the best I've come across, by the time I decided to buy it they'd stopped operating tho
I like that idea, I wouldn't be able to work to the tight tolerances necessary to do it with my tools tho unfortunately.
The mpe system is the best I've come across, by the time I decided to buy it they'd stopped operating tho
In reply to Post #4
Why not go for hex inners and use a hex rotary broach to machine the outer bore. Much easier than machining a square..
Why not go for hex inners and use a hex rotary broach to machine the outer bore. Much easier than machining a square..
In reply to Post #1
Something i have done for years is to mill two flats on the top of inner part of bankstick these take a 13mm spanner and enable me to nip the bankstick inner against the buzzbar with zero twist.
I replaced my thumb screws for the matrix ones which when i tighten by hand don't move, i do use a stabiliser to stop the outer bankstick moving.
If the ground is soft enough i still prefer a goalpost on 3 or 4 rod set ups
Something i have done for years is to mill two flats on the top of inner part of bankstick these take a 13mm spanner and enable me to nip the bankstick inner against the buzzbar with zero twist.
I replaced my thumb screws for the matrix ones which when i tighten by hand don't move, i do use a stabiliser to stop the outer bankstick moving.
If the ground is soft enough i still prefer a goalpost on 3 or 4 rod set ups
In reply to Post #14
I had to Google that, and it looks expensive. If I go to round bar with a groove for the inners then it's just the connections I need to square off. It should be easy to drill a hole, rout the square, and round the male section rather than try broaching freehand.
Since I'll be cutting the male squares from round bar, I think square will be easier than hex and less work to make the jig work accurately at 4 orientations rather than 6, especially when I'm adapting woodworking tools and techniques
I had to Google that, and it looks expensive. If I go to round bar with a groove for the inners then it's just the connections I need to square off. It should be easy to drill a hole, rout the square, and round the male section rather than try broaching freehand.
Since I'll be cutting the male squares from round bar, I think square will be easier than hex and less work to make the jig work accurately at 4 orientations rather than 6, especially when I'm adapting woodworking tools and techniques
In reply to Post #15
I haven't got round to a stabiliser design yet, I'll use stainless coach screw with some relief channels for the point of the sticks which will hold in most ground with short 2 rod bars I typically use, I will have to come up with something for softer ground tho
I haven't got round to a stabiliser design yet, I'll use stainless coach screw with some relief channels for the point of the sticks which will hold in most ground with short 2 rod bars I typically use, I will have to come up with something for softer ground tho
In reply to Post #1
This may not help but it might set you off down a different route, I made a few rod pods and the latest was similar to a lot of others ie the top bar is round, when screwing in the buzzer its hit and miss whether its inline or not, I have now changed that to ali angle, the buzzer push's through the top and a plastic long round threaded bar screws up from the underneath, so now hold the buzzer and tighten from under side, would an angle piece of material be an option ?
This may not help but it might set you off down a different route, I made a few rod pods and the latest was similar to a lot of others ie the top bar is round, when screwing in the buzzer its hit and miss whether its inline or not, I have now changed that to ali angle, the buzzer push's through the top and a plastic long round threaded bar screws up from the underneath, so now hold the buzzer and tighten from under side, would an angle piece of material be an option ?
In reply to Post #18
Do you have a picture dave? I can't really visualise it from that description
Do you have a picture dave? I can't really visualise it from that description
In reply to Post #19
I think he mean like the Chris Brown bankware
I think he mean like the Chris Brown bankware
Some of the best banksticks that I have owned, were Nash ones from the 80's. They were made from aluminium but instead of being round, they were triangular so when they were pushed into the ground, they would not twist. The screw thread at the top was also triangular but made from plastic and could be pulled off the stick so when packing up, nothing to unscrew as you could leave your alarm or bars on the plastic thread. Also with being plastic, you could screw the bars down tight so they would not twist and you never got the bimetallic corrosion that you got with the Gardner sticks that were popular at the time. Also as the tops pulled off, they were interchangeable with different length sticks which made them quiet universal as you could use your long sticks or short sticks without having to unscrew anything.
Sadly they stopped making them but, I still have 3 of them left which I occasionally use.
Sadly they stopped making them but, I still have 3 of them left which I occasionally use.
In reply to Post #19
I'll take some and get them up asap
I'll take some and get them up asap
In reply to Post #19
The photos on the bank shows how it was with round bars, all the others shows the angle
ali section and screws that I made including the bobbins, the thumb knobs came from
Axminster tools, the rubber gromets between them and the square section are from a
local electrical supplier used when the knockout is removed from back boxes, if you need any more info just ask
EDIT
Fotgot yo say inside the square section there is a piece of mild steel which the thumb knob screws into as the ali is too soft for long time use.
The photos on the bank shows how it was with round bars, all the others shows the angle
ali section and screws that I made including the bobbins, the thumb knobs came from
Axminster tools, the rubber gromets between them and the square section are from a
local electrical supplier used when the knockout is removed from back boxes, if you need any more info just ask
EDIT
Fotgot yo say inside the square section there is a piece of mild steel which the thumb knob screws into as the ali is too soft for long time use.
In reply to Post #23
That looks sturdy mate, angle makes a lot of sense for the bars in terms of strength, rigidity and ease of alignment. I'm set on black/gold(polished brass) Swan neck bars for my setup, as I said, I'm going for form and function.
Did you paint it yourself? I haven't figured out what to do there yet, I don't know of any paint that'll last on the banksticks, anodising/powder coating would be better but I don't know how much that'll cost and might make assembly harder. I want a DIY finish so I can give it a refurb in future ideally
Zack mentioned bimetellic corrosion, I've already learned a bit about this from the thread in non carp but one joint is bothering me on the Swan necks
To do the centre fitting I'll drill the horizontal hole a tight fit for the Ali bar, but for alignment and long term strength I'll add a small indent in the Ali, and use a grub screw. Corrosion here may cause it to loosen which I don't want. How would I insulate between the brass grub and Ali bar, or is there a better metal for the grub that won't react with brass or Ali? All other joints will be done with epoxy which may not insulate fully but will certainly keep water out
That looks sturdy mate, angle makes a lot of sense for the bars in terms of strength, rigidity and ease of alignment. I'm set on black/gold(polished brass) Swan neck bars for my setup, as I said, I'm going for form and function.
Did you paint it yourself? I haven't figured out what to do there yet, I don't know of any paint that'll last on the banksticks, anodising/powder coating would be better but I don't know how much that'll cost and might make assembly harder. I want a DIY finish so I can give it a refurb in future ideally
Zack mentioned bimetellic corrosion, I've already learned a bit about this from the thread in non carp but one joint is bothering me on the Swan necks
To do the centre fitting I'll drill the horizontal hole a tight fit for the Ali bar, but for alignment and long term strength I'll add a small indent in the Ali, and use a grub screw. Corrosion here may cause it to loosen which I don't want. How would I insulate between the brass grub and Ali bar, or is there a better metal for the grub that won't react with brass or Ali? All other joints will be done with epoxy which may not insulate fully but will certainly keep water out
In reply to Post #24
Isn't what you really want just a screw point titanium stick with fixed 2 rod bars welded to the top.
Isn't what you really want just a screw point titanium stick with fixed 2 rod bars welded to the top.
In reply to Post #25
If its got Swan neck bars I'll take two
If its got Swan neck bars I'll take two
In reply to Post #26
Contact a bike frame builder maybe. They will be able to do the bends and welds.. though you'd probably want thicker gauge than a bike chain/seat stay.
Plus they'll cost you about £500
Contact a bike frame builder maybe. They will be able to do the bends and welds.. though you'd probably want thicker gauge than a bike chain/seat stay.
Plus they'll cost you about £500
In reply to Post #27
That's why I gave up with Ti, a quick look about showed about £70 for a short bit of 5/8 rod
That's why I gave up with Ti, a quick look about showed about £70 for a short bit of 5/8 rod
In reply to Post #24
Loctite 270 might be suitable? Will secure the grubscrew and put a barrier between the two metals.
Loctite 270 might be suitable? Will secure the grubscrew and put a barrier between the two metals.
In reply to Post #24
I did paint it all, I used a primer that is just for ali then matt black spray from Homebase that is used for exterior gates etc, the black and brass sounds good, the only brass I used was at the end of the square tubes where the legs attach, you can't see them but I turned down some brass rod and threaded part of it so the cut down Fox sticks screwed onto them, the idea was to un screw them part of the way and swivel up for transit but in the end I just put the front and back section as is into the unhooking mat, I did find that connecting ali to ali (rod into tube) could be a nightmare to get apart when testing, when you have finished your project I would like to see some photos if possible, good luck, if I can be of any help....
PS
The tubes that connect front to back came from a local garden centre, the ones that make frames using plastic corners/T pieces etc quite thick and strong.
I did paint it all, I used a primer that is just for ali then matt black spray from Homebase that is used for exterior gates etc, the black and brass sounds good, the only brass I used was at the end of the square tubes where the legs attach, you can't see them but I turned down some brass rod and threaded part of it so the cut down Fox sticks screwed onto them, the idea was to un screw them part of the way and swivel up for transit but in the end I just put the front and back section as is into the unhooking mat, I did find that connecting ali to ali (rod into tube) could be a nightmare to get apart when testing, when you have finished your project I would like to see some photos if possible, good luck, if I can be of any help....
PS
The tubes that connect front to back came from a local garden centre, the ones that make frames using plastic corners/T pieces etc quite thick and strong.
In reply to Post #30
I'm getting all the bits together now, as I expect my work may be shut down in the near future. Hopefully the new rods and new metalware will be sorted by March either way. As long as I'm working most of the designs will stay on paper.
A lot of it is quite different to other stuff available, and quite elegant on paper if I do say so myself.
Just with the stabilisers in mind I'm going for a heavier guage tube so I can add a couple of flats and try and do away with the need to tighten any thing up. I've got some etching primer for Ali, I might look for an epoxy coat for the lower section that'll get scuffed quicker
Will check out that locktite
I'm getting all the bits together now, as I expect my work may be shut down in the near future. Hopefully the new rods and new metalware will be sorted by March either way. As long as I'm working most of the designs will stay on paper.
A lot of it is quite different to other stuff available, and quite elegant on paper if I do say so myself.
Just with the stabilisers in mind I'm going for a heavier guage tube so I can add a couple of flats and try and do away with the need to tighten any thing up. I've got some etching primer for Ali, I might look for an epoxy coat for the lower section that'll get scuffed quicker
Will check out that locktite
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