https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-hampshire-55260718
That's mind blowing 😱
These effin people, they just can't help themselves inventing problems that aren't problems at all. No doubt some goon doesn't like carp anglers and its a way to get rid of them.
These effin people, they just can't help themselves inventing problems that aren't problems at all. No doubt some goon doesn't like carp anglers and its a way to get rid of them.
Natural england are a joke. Must have a big kick on vegetation protections at the minute. Sadly this doesn't come in to comparison with the farce on the broads.
I've worked with them for many years and I do think you're right, if you have a few anti-angler staff then they really do make it difficult for fisheries to operate where they have for decades before. We had one that absolutely refused to let carp be stocked in SSSI sites based on the weed growth argument somehow affecting the overwintering birds...you know when the weed has died off
Also flat out refused otter fencing. Said person left and the replacement is much more angler friendly and we have fenced lakes and stockings again in the valley.
I've worked with them for many years and I do think you're right, if you have a few anti-angler staff then they really do make it difficult for fisheries to operate where they have for decades before. We had one that absolutely refused to let carp be stocked in SSSI sites based on the weed growth argument somehow affecting the overwintering birds...you know when the weed has died off
Also flat out refused otter fencing. Said person left and the replacement is much more angler friendly and we have fenced lakes and stockings again in the valley.
In reply to Post #3
Your very lucky as its my understanding they and the national trust opose otter fencing of any sssi.
Your very lucky as its my understanding they and the national trust opose otter fencing of any sssi.
In reply to Post #1
Didn't know Rolf Harris was an angler.
Didn't know Rolf Harris was an angler.
In reply to Post #1
How can they really think carp effect the weed growth ? As long as club rules dictate no weed removal by anglers to make spots etc surely there wouldn't be a major problem?
How can they really think carp effect the weed growth ? As long as club rules dictate no weed removal by anglers to make spots etc surely there wouldn't be a major problem?
In reply to Post #6
heaviy overstocked waters/commercials are never weedy for 2 reasons
1) The fish are so hungry any growth just gets ripped up
2) The poor water clarity generally means weed cant establish
A 'natural' type water with a balanced ecosystem can thrive with both weed and carp - as we all know.
heaviy overstocked waters/commercials are never weedy for 2 reasons
1) The fish are so hungry any growth just gets ripped up
2) The poor water clarity generally means weed cant establish
A 'natural' type water with a balanced ecosystem can thrive with both weed and carp - as we all know.
In reply to Post #7
Natural England will tell you that these venues are not natural as they are stocked with a non indigenous species.
Natural England will tell you that these venues are not natural as they are stocked with a non indigenous species.
In reply to Post #8
**** me they sound worse than Vegans!
**** me they sound worse than Vegans!
In reply to Post #9
Worse they are gaining a lot of support and they intend to reintroduce species that died out including wolves.
Worse they are gaining a lot of support and they intend to reintroduce species that died out including wolves.
In reply to Post #10
In reply to Post #10
I wholeheartedly support the reintroduction of wolves as they keep a check on deer populations and foxes etc to manageable numbers, they also transform the environment to a massive degree, and for the better. Watch the documentaries about wolf reintroduction back into Yellowstone national park to see the unbelievable impact they had on the place. The before and after pictures a just mind blowing.
No doubt if they do get the go ahead, they'll introduce the Carpathian wolf (European) quite a bit smaller than its cousin the timber wolf (North American) which is very large. Highly intelligent animals not looking to eat humans, they actively avoid us.
Remove "beaver" and insert 'otter' >>problem solver<<
I wholeheartedly support the reintroduction of wolves as they keep a check on deer populations and foxes etc to manageable numbers, they also transform the environment to a massive degree, and for the better. Watch the documentaries about wolf reintroduction back into Yellowstone national park to see the unbelievable impact they had on the place. The before and after pictures a just mind blowing.
No doubt if they do get the go ahead, they'll introduce the Carpathian wolf (European) quite a bit smaller than its cousin the timber wolf (North American) which is very large. Highly intelligent animals not looking to eat humans, they actively avoid us.
Remove "beaver" and insert 'otter' >>problem solver<<
Have to agree with Natural England. A heavy stocking of carp into a sensitive environment like an SSSI will cause tremendous damage to plant and animal species. A handful of carp that rarely have a successful spawning and recruitment year are one thing, but we all know that's not what happens. I have seen a number of excellent small mixed fisheries with clear water, healthy weed growth and a diverse flora and fauna reduced to weedless muddy puddles full of hungry pasties stocked at 50-100 fish per acre. Buy/dig fisheries, fence them and fill them with carp if you wish. Please let's leave what's left carp free.
In reply to Post #13
Good points there 👍
Loads of places around like you mention, muddy puddles rammed full of anemic looking fish.
Good points there 👍
Loads of places around like you mention, muddy puddles rammed full of anemic looking fish.
In reply to Post #12
Yep, I've seen that documentary and it is staggering. NE were involved in the reintroduction of otters and work with the national trust and the introduction of beavers which also looks to have a posative impact.
Yep, I've seen that documentary and it is staggering. NE were involved in the reintroduction of otters and work with the national trust and the introduction of beavers which also looks to have a posative impact.
In reply to Post #15
Clearly we just need a cull of anglers who don't fish low stock big waters and aren't as carpy as a tarnished tea spoon to keep the elite happy
Though the operative word, stock, should tell the story in itself... they're as artificial as the muddy puddles but bigger
Clearly we just need a cull of anglers who don't fish low stock big waters and aren't as carpy as a tarnished tea spoon to keep the elite happy
Though the operative word, stock, should tell the story in itself... they're as artificial as the muddy puddles but bigger
In reply to Post #16
Thing is the venue in my link isn't highly stocked in comparison to some of the highly commercial big fish day ticket venues.
Thing is the venue in my link isn't highly stocked in comparison to some of the highly commercial big fish day ticket venues.
In reply to Post #15
It's the wildlife trust I believe. My mate has been involved with the beaver project, and they have a really positive impact to the river systems.
It's the wildlife trust I believe. My mate has been involved with the beaver project, and they have a really positive impact to the river systems.
In reply to Post #13
I agree with this but can see both sides as the carp scene has exploded and needs more waters to feed the demand.
The poster that said dig and fill has it correct imo leave the natural waters as they are
I agree with this but can see both sides as the carp scene has exploded and needs more waters to feed the demand.
The poster that said dig and fill has it correct imo leave the natural waters as they are
In reply to Post #18
Yes it is the wildlife Trust, believe they have a few projects around the UK but I first became aware through a conversation with the national trust about the Devon project.
Yes it is the wildlife Trust, believe they have a few projects around the UK but I first became aware through a conversation with the national trust about the Devon project.
In reply to Post #1
I got a ticket on this club this year, have only fished it once. The fish really are quite ill looking pale mk1 simmos, averaging 12lb. There is also WAY more than 100 carp in that water. My mate had 25 in 48hrs last year.
I got the ticket to take the kids there but still didn't fancy it. Although the lake is lovely.
What they should do is reduce the stock by about 90% leaving only the nicest biggest fish and stock around 20 really nice carp from VS fisheries or the new Simmo super scaleys and let the water mature. Turn it into a true specimen water. The club has other runs water, it would be a win win situation.
I did mentioned it to the committee.
I got a ticket on this club this year, have only fished it once. The fish really are quite ill looking pale mk1 simmos, averaging 12lb. There is also WAY more than 100 carp in that water. My mate had 25 in 48hrs last year.
I got the ticket to take the kids there but still didn't fancy it. Although the lake is lovely.
What they should do is reduce the stock by about 90% leaving only the nicest biggest fish and stock around 20 really nice carp from VS fisheries or the new Simmo super scaleys and let the water mature. Turn it into a true specimen water. The club has other runs water, it would be a win win situation.
I did mentioned it to the committee.
Natural England is coming to you ............ Eventually.
Hatchet Pond in the New Forest , as many Carp that could be netted were removed from this 10 acre venue ,
Would not allow the Beaulieu river to be stocked with Roach BECAUSE they were not 100% true pure breed English Roach .
Im sure their are many more incidents like this out their .
Hatchet Pond in the New Forest , as many Carp that could be netted were removed from this 10 acre venue ,
Would not allow the Beaulieu river to be stocked with Roach BECAUSE they were not 100% true pure breed English Roach .
Im sure their are many more incidents like this out their .
In reply to Post #9
**** me they sound worse than Vegans!
Most of them are Vegan!!! That's the problem!
**** me they sound worse than Vegans!
Most of them are Vegan!!! That's the problem!
Natural England seems to be very picky as to what invasive species they target – seems to be the easy to handle ones or the ones the public won't get upset by it being removed, is the term you would use "Hypocrites"
American Grey Squirrels everywhere you look – they ignore them as it would up-set the public if they culled them.
Japanese MuntJac Deer – just the same ignore them as they look like Bambi; don't want to upset the public by culling them.
Himalayan Balsam- it's taking over the place, but it's ignored as it would be a big job to eradicate it – oh and it looks pretty to the general public.
Giant Hog Weed- there's forests of the stuff in obscure places out of the general public's view, it just gets ignored.
American Grey Squirrels everywhere you look – they ignore them as it would up-set the public if they culled them.
Japanese MuntJac Deer – just the same ignore them as they look like Bambi; don't want to upset the public by culling them.
Himalayan Balsam- it's taking over the place, but it's ignored as it would be a big job to eradicate it – oh and it looks pretty to the general public.
Giant Hog Weed- there's forests of the stuff in obscure places out of the general public's view, it just gets ignored.
I know of a water that was owned by an angling club, its fish stocked was wiped out by pollution, and when it became safe to restock, natural England tried to stop them restocking on the basis it was an SSI and had newts and flora in etc and also the fact that there never had been any fish in the pond to start with.
It went to court, photographs of fish captures by anglers were produced and the question was raised of why a fishing club would own a pond with no fish in it.
Natural England lost the case and the pond was restocked. But even then not without issues as Natural England only wanted the likes of Rudd stocking and claimed carp should not be in the pond and never has been but pictures of carp caught in the pond beforehand allowed carp to be restocked.
I also know of another water, that they only allow fishing on one bank in order to protect the other banks for wildlife habitats despite allowing walkers, dog walkers and bird watchers to use them. Whenever they do any bank clearing, trimming bushes etc, they always dump the cut branches etc in the swims anglers use to fish from, obviously to try and stop people fishing.
Basically, Natural England can go to hell as it will no doubt be an even major threat to fishing in the future, especially when we start getting more and more of these "Woke Heads" we are seeing today trying to ban everything.
It went to court, photographs of fish captures by anglers were produced and the question was raised of why a fishing club would own a pond with no fish in it.
Natural England lost the case and the pond was restocked. But even then not without issues as Natural England only wanted the likes of Rudd stocking and claimed carp should not be in the pond and never has been but pictures of carp caught in the pond beforehand allowed carp to be restocked.
I also know of another water, that they only allow fishing on one bank in order to protect the other banks for wildlife habitats despite allowing walkers, dog walkers and bird watchers to use them. Whenever they do any bank clearing, trimming bushes etc, they always dump the cut branches etc in the swims anglers use to fish from, obviously to try and stop people fishing.
Basically, Natural England can go to hell as it will no doubt be an even major threat to fishing in the future, especially when we start getting more and more of these "Woke Heads" we are seeing today trying to ban everything.
In reply to Post #25
Basically, Natural England can go to hell as it will no doubt be an even major threat to fishing in the future, especially when we start getting more and more of these "Woke Heads" we are seeing today trying to ban everything.
Yep, and I've come to exactly the same conclusion, but I've just listed four examples below - there's absolutely loads of others. And that's their weak spot, it will only take a few 1000 people asking the question "Why are you ignoring all these?" via a direct letter or a complaint to you MP, and Natural England has a massive problem on it's hands.
Basically, Natural England can go to hell as it will no doubt be an even major threat to fishing in the future, especially when we start getting more and more of these "Woke Heads" we are seeing today trying to ban everything.
Yep, and I've come to exactly the same conclusion, but I've just listed four examples below - there's absolutely loads of others. And that's their weak spot, it will only take a few 1000 people asking the question "Why are you ignoring all these?" via a direct letter or a complaint to you MP, and Natural England has a massive problem on it's hands.
In reply to Post #25
Natural England and Wildlife Trust already have support in government, look at the new farming policies about diversifying, Moor woodland, lakes and ponds, encouraging wildlife etc. Two farmers I know of have been trying to do this and create water meadows for over ten years but had always been blocked.
Natural England and Wildlife Trust already have support in government, look at the new farming policies about diversifying, Moor woodland, lakes and ponds, encouraging wildlife etc. Two farmers I know of have been trying to do this and create water meadows for over ten years but had always been blocked.
In reply to Post #24
There is one major difference between your four examples and carp.
The four species you mention, and there are many others that are indeed invasive species that do damage to our natural environment. However they are here as a result of a small number of thoughtless, accidental events or escapes from gardens and parks. Once in our environment they have needed no human help and support to spread and thrive. Indeed they have done it in the face of active eradication measures at different times in the last 200 years. Truly invasive species.
It is not the same with (King) carp. The UK is right at the Northern edge of their range and as a result they rarely breed successfully. There were small numbers of carp in our waters pre 1970 as a result of of them being raised for food historically and the more recent efforts of men like Donald Leney. The huge numbers of carp in our waters now are the direct result of huge stocking programs and they need the continuous support and oversight of humans to thrive. Carp anglers do not have a god given right to stock large numbers of alien fish into our natural environment at levels that do enormous damage to our aquatic environment.
There is one major difference between your four examples and carp.
The four species you mention, and there are many others that are indeed invasive species that do damage to our natural environment. However they are here as a result of a small number of thoughtless, accidental events or escapes from gardens and parks. Once in our environment they have needed no human help and support to spread and thrive. Indeed they have done it in the face of active eradication measures at different times in the last 200 years. Truly invasive species.
It is not the same with (King) carp. The UK is right at the Northern edge of their range and as a result they rarely breed successfully. There were small numbers of carp in our waters pre 1970 as a result of of them being raised for food historically and the more recent efforts of men like Donald Leney. The huge numbers of carp in our waters now are the direct result of huge stocking programs and they need the continuous support and oversight of humans to thrive. Carp anglers do not have a god given right to stock large numbers of alien fish into our natural environment at levels that do enormous damage to our aquatic environment.
In reply to Post #24
You do know that Natural England only have jurisdiction on protected species and sites. Outside of those (including proximity to protected sites) they have no jurisdiction.
Your four examples don't take that in to account so I don't want anyone getting confused that Natural England have rule over every inch of England. They don't. Your examples are misguided, along with your anger it seems.
You do know that Natural England only have jurisdiction on protected species and sites. Outside of those (including proximity to protected sites) they have no jurisdiction.
Your four examples don't take that in to account so I don't want anyone getting confused that Natural England have rule over every inch of England. They don't. Your examples are misguided, along with your anger it seems.
In reply to Post #29
True at this time, however I can see their jurisdiction increasing if the current farming proposals come into effect.
True at this time, however I can see their jurisdiction increasing if the current farming proposals come into effect.
In reply to Post #29
Not really as they are ignoring certain things on their own sites, and picking and choosing what they want too.
If they have a plan to eradicate ALL invasive species from SSSI sites then do it – there's no half measures.
Not really as they are ignoring certain things on their own sites, and picking and choosing what they want too.
If they have a plan to eradicate ALL invasive species from SSSI sites then do it – there's no half measures.
In reply to Post #31
I have always had the belief that nature levels itself out, people complain about too many Pike in a lake but as soon as the stock levels drop the big Pike will eat the Jacks, I don`t think Carp eat that much weed, they dig it up looking for morsels and blood worm but given the chance I think the weed will grow again, our club had a 3 acre pool that was lifeless, no weed at all so we put 10 tons of horse manure in and it absolutely took of, it has just done its 1st 40lb Common and another Common and Mirror just behind it, it is now covered in all sorts of weed,
I have always had the belief that nature levels itself out, people complain about too many Pike in a lake but as soon as the stock levels drop the big Pike will eat the Jacks, I don`t think Carp eat that much weed, they dig it up looking for morsels and blood worm but given the chance I think the weed will grow again, our club had a 3 acre pool that was lifeless, no weed at all so we put 10 tons of horse manure in and it absolutely took of, it has just done its 1st 40lb Common and another Common and Mirror just behind it, it is now covered in all sorts of weed,
In reply to Post #30
If the new NELMS scheme comes in for landowners then NE involvement in it is unnecessary because it all has to go through EA for approvals on things anyway. Streamlining it by giving it to the EA makes more sense. But then when does the government do anything that makes sense!
If the new NELMS scheme comes in for landowners then NE involvement in it is unnecessary because it all has to go through EA for approvals on things anyway. Streamlining it by giving it to the EA makes more sense. But then when does the government do anything that makes sense!
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