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Flavor bases/solvents (28 posts / 5,781 views)
mistercarp
Posts: 1,307
Post #1 10 Mar 2020 22:10
0
I would like to know, if there are certain flavour bases/solvents you prefer and why?

I read a bit about them, and I found mpg or propylene glycol is used often as it's water soluble but also used in the car industry as anti freeze fluid. Glycerine seems a better base, but it has about the same chemical make up as glycol. Triacetine, diacetyl and ethyl alcohol are alcohol based, but can be dangerous, I have read. Seems not much left?
Gaius_Bell
Posts: 208
Post #2 10 Mar 2020 22:34
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In reply to Post #1
I'm no chemist, but I know of some solvents readily used in flavours in carp baits, these being Propylene Glycol, ethyl alcohol, esters, Organic esters, organic acids and some essential oils.

MSDS sheets will contain information on toxicity however this can be a bit miss leading. Eg formaldehyde is classified as a dangerous substance, yet it's in our bodies.

As I understand PG is the least soluble and can be combined with say Ethyl Alcohol flavours which are very soluble so that when the EA is dispersed you still have attraction via the PG.

I think diacetyl based flavours are no longer in vogue or banned (not sure why).

I'd be interested to know what bases some of the most effective flavours are but I notice a lot of suppliers don't tell you what the base is (Nutrabaits seem to buck this trend). I assume this is an intellectual property/trade secret issue.

christian
Posts: 1,377
Post #3 10 Mar 2020 22:40
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In reply to Post #2
Nash bait have a contents list on their bottles, most are mpg from memory and mpg features on the contents list for their boilies.
Gaius_Bell
Posts: 208
Post #4 10 Mar 2020 23:00
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In reply to Post #3
Is Nash SSA mpg too?
NickGordon NickGordon
Posts: 3,121
Post #5 10 Mar 2020 23:40
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In reply to Post #1
Glycerine is the formed by the saponification of triglycerides from fats.

Personally I think it is the most acceptable flavour base in carp baits.
Gaius_Bell
Posts: 208
Post #6 11 Mar 2020 00:48
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In reply to Post #5
Yes. My Dad (a retired chemist) made sone bio-diesel once and a by product of that was glycerine. Interesting. I'm not aware of glycerine based flavours. Only mixing glycerine with flavours (presumably on a different base) Would you care to elaborate?
christian
Posts: 1,377
Post #7 11 Mar 2020 07:52
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In reply to Post #4
If I can find my magnifying glass I'll check, it's the smallest print I've ever seen...but pretty sure it is, with added crab and liver flavours from memory..
NemesisWitch NemesisWitch
Posts: 1,425
Post #8 11 Mar 2020 08:31
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In reply to Post #6
Most of the original Nutrabaits flavours were on a glycerol (glycerine) base. Ken will be the authority here I suspect.
KenTownley KenTownley
Posts: 30,593
Post #9 11 Mar 2020 08:46
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In reply to Post #8
Most of the original Nutrabaits flavours were on a glycerol (glycerine) base.

Indeed they were/are. There is a limited range of EA flavours too. Glycerin is a good preservative to boot!
mistercarp
Posts: 1,307
Post #10 11 Mar 2020 08:53
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In reply to Post #9
So that's not a harmful base for a flavour?
KenTownley KenTownley
Posts: 30,593
Post #11 11 Mar 2020 10:29
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In reply to Post #10
Not in the slightest.
mistercarp
Posts: 1,307
Post #12 11 Mar 2020 10:33
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In reply to Post #11
Okay, will look for the nutrabaits nature identical ones. Thanks Ken.
Ynnek
Posts: 890
Post #13 11 Mar 2020 14:13
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In reply to Post #1
I'm I so mistaken but mpg is food safe.
They use it in pet and animal feed and is also used as anti-sticking agent in humain feed.

So, mpg would be acceptable as well
mark1009
Posts: 4,745
Post #14 11 Mar 2020 16:22
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In reply to Post #13
All of these are safe in limited quantities and used in human food. I'd imagine you may have digestion issues if you drank a large amount of mpg or glycerine, and we all know the effects of too much Ethanol. Substances get banned because the acceptable safe exposure is low and can be easily exceeded in normal use.
christian
Posts: 1,377
Post #15 11 Mar 2020 17:14
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In reply to Post #4
Checked, it's mpg with crab and liver flavour. Also checked an older bottle, the 100ml square ones, that said di-propalyne glycol with frutarom crab and liverade liquid. They smell similar but the older one is a stronger smell.
I would love to know what the bulk liquid in the old whisky oil palatents was? Anyone....
christian
Posts: 1,377
Post #16 11 Mar 2020 17:16
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In reply to Post #14
Aren't vaping liquids a mixture of glycerine and mpg? Must be reasonably safe.
Rigsbin Rigsbin
Posts: 130
Post #17 11 Mar 2020 18:14
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In reply to Post #16
Most vaping liquids contain vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol - sometimes a mixture of both. I've never done much with bait making and mixing flavours, but have made my own vaping liquids for years now. Surprised there hasn't been more interest in the flavours generally sold for vaping amongst bait makers, there's a huge amount available...
mistercarp
Posts: 1,307
Post #18 11 Mar 2020 20:40
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In reply to Post #17
I heard vaping was more harmful for health than regular smoking?!
mark1009
Posts: 4,745
Post #19 11 Mar 2020 22:17
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In reply to Post #18
General consensus is it's 95% safer than smoking. However it's early days in the research. I gave up smoking 8 years ago and wouldn't vape if you paid me. Wouldn't smoke again either. That **** will kill you.
Gaius_Bell
Posts: 208
Post #20 11 Mar 2020 23:19
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In reply to Post #17
I vape a lot and have been thinking about making my own juice. Might I ask where you source your flavours from?
Rigsbin Rigsbin
Posts: 130
Post #21 12 Mar 2020 09:38
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In reply to Post #20
Generally use Capella and go for whoever is doing the best price on 90 or 100ml. You can usually find discount codes kicking about as well. I think last time I bought from https://theecigshop.uk as they were cheaper overall, but have also used Dark Star in the past
Gaius_Bell
Posts: 208
Post #22 12 Mar 2020 10:48
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In reply to Post #21
Thanks very much!
txangler txangler
Posts: 813
Post #23 18 Oct 2021 15:24
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In reply to Post #1
If I could kick up this old thread here, as this subject has recently sparked my interest. When it comes to specifically boilie making, and using these PG/VG base flavours, the ones commonly used in food and vaping industry, has anyone experimented with bait making and measurements, and how well they can handle the process of boiling, drying, freeze, etc.. while keeping the aroma/taste of the intended flavour? I'm also wondering how these flavours chemically differ from the flavours that are developed for bait making, if there really is much difference?
Baitman Baitman
Posts: 5,266
Post #24 19 Oct 2021 15:26
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In reply to Post #23
They will be the same, maybe a more basic smell with no taste...
just do a 1 egger to test the finished flavour levels.
txangler txangler
Posts: 813
Post #25 19 Oct 2021 15:53
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In reply to Post #24
Ah yes, always doing the 1 egg test. They sure have a overwhelming variety of flavours to choose from but i got the impression they're not as potent, and will boil out so may need to increase the measurements compared to the "bait flavours"
framey framey
Posts: 5,324
Post #26 19 Oct 2021 16:02
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The northern special liquid is quite nice as a vape flavour lol
I've tried it
scozza
Posts: 18,429
Post #27 19 Oct 2021 19:15
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In reply to Post #26
The northern special liquid is quite nice as a vape flavour lol

**** me
Terpinhimley Terpinhimley
Posts: 539
Post #28 21 Oct 2021 20:32
0
In reply to Post #26
Try the carp freaks one. Might be a bit milkshakey 😂
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