In reply to Post #24
Danny i dont have to think about it i know from experience that a lead clip will discharge the lead when set up correctly.
As i think you are implying the lead has to be tethered to discharge from the clip? if so this again is incorrect.
I think its you that seriously needs to have a good think about it
Danny i dont have to think about it i know from experience that a lead clip will discharge the lead when set up correctly.
As i think you are implying the lead has to be tethered to discharge from the clip? if so this again is incorrect.
I think its you that seriously needs to have a good think about it
In reply to Post #31
How can the lead discharge \ release from the leadclip if it's not stuck \ tethered?
How can the lead discharge \ release from the leadclip if it's not stuck \ tethered?
In reply to Post #32
Its simple physics and it certainly doesn't have to be tethered as you claim.
A simple test for you would be to try to pick a rig up with a lead clip fixed to the swivel and shake the rig there is a good chance the lead will drop off depending on how far you care to ram on the tail rubber which should never be rammed on!, now do the same with a running lead clip and the clip will slide away with lead still attached which imo makes this variation unsafe.
A lead can discharge from a lead clip via resistance on the lead without being tethered 1 example would be on the take itself (the lead does create a resistance) which is a way a lot of people fish (rightly or wrongly) if the fish bolts off, its pulling directly against the lead all that is now holding the lead on is the tension of the tail rubber depending on the type of leadclip and how far tail ruber is pushed on denotes how easy it is for the lead to come off.
Another example is even a mesh pva bag on the hook end of rig if the cast is just allowed to drop ie not hitting the clip and feathering down, sinking on a tight line, then the lead hits the water first then the extra resistance of bag hitting water and the lead trying to sink faster than the pva bag can cause the lead to eject or on a running version can cause the leadclip to land on lake bed some distance away from hooklink.
Its simple physics and it certainly doesn't have to be tethered as you claim.
A simple test for you would be to try to pick a rig up with a lead clip fixed to the swivel and shake the rig there is a good chance the lead will drop off depending on how far you care to ram on the tail rubber which should never be rammed on!, now do the same with a running lead clip and the clip will slide away with lead still attached which imo makes this variation unsafe.
A lead can discharge from a lead clip via resistance on the lead without being tethered 1 example would be on the take itself (the lead does create a resistance) which is a way a lot of people fish (rightly or wrongly) if the fish bolts off, its pulling directly against the lead all that is now holding the lead on is the tension of the tail rubber depending on the type of leadclip and how far tail ruber is pushed on denotes how easy it is for the lead to come off.
Another example is even a mesh pva bag on the hook end of rig if the cast is just allowed to drop ie not hitting the clip and feathering down, sinking on a tight line, then the lead hits the water first then the extra resistance of bag hitting water and the lead trying to sink faster than the pva bag can cause the lead to eject or on a running version can cause the leadclip to land on lake bed some distance away from hooklink.
In reply to Post #32
Quote.... How can the lead discharge \ release from the leadclip if it's not stuck \ tethered?
If you are actually being serious and not on a wind up Danny.... Set up a lead clip fixed safely into the swivel like it is meant to be. Put the whole rig on the table in front of you, pick up the hook with a pair of pliers. The first thing that will happen when you lift the lead off the table will be the lead will slide to the back of the lead clip lug, to the weak end where the tail rubber sits. The weight of the lead will be all on that weak link now, not the stronger side of the lug where it sits when you cast, or reel in.
Now give the pliers a small shake imitating a fish shaking its head and watch the lead fall off. There are no snags on your living room table. The weight of the lead alone is enough to discharge the lead once the fish has picked it up. Now do the same with the lead clip running how you are advocating. You will never be able to get rid of the lead like you did with the lead clip fixed. The lead will not even move to the weak end of the lead clip lug! That will only happen if that lead becomes snagged when it is running.
Lead clips should never be used running. I've seen stupid idiot tackle manufacturers advocating this before online. It's absolute lunacy and probably the most dangerous lead set up that you could possibly have.
It's akin to getting in a car with your missus, putting on the seat belt... But wrapping it twice around your throat first. It's just not safe. Your missus will call you a ****ing idiot and ask you what the **** you are doing. You are taking an incredibly well designed product, but putting your own little spin on it. Your own little spin that is making it incredibly dangerous.
As for leads on lead clips not ejecting when the fish charges into weed.... That's simply in no way whatsoever true. If you are using a lead clip and the lead does not eject in weed... That is 100% user error from putting on the tail rubber to far. A well set up lead clip WILL eject the lead EVERY time when a fish hits weed. Every single time without exception.
Quote.... How can the lead discharge \ release from the leadclip if it's not stuck \ tethered?
If you are actually being serious and not on a wind up Danny.... Set up a lead clip fixed safely into the swivel like it is meant to be. Put the whole rig on the table in front of you, pick up the hook with a pair of pliers. The first thing that will happen when you lift the lead off the table will be the lead will slide to the back of the lead clip lug, to the weak end where the tail rubber sits. The weight of the lead will be all on that weak link now, not the stronger side of the lug where it sits when you cast, or reel in.
Now give the pliers a small shake imitating a fish shaking its head and watch the lead fall off. There are no snags on your living room table. The weight of the lead alone is enough to discharge the lead once the fish has picked it up. Now do the same with the lead clip running how you are advocating. You will never be able to get rid of the lead like you did with the lead clip fixed. The lead will not even move to the weak end of the lead clip lug! That will only happen if that lead becomes snagged when it is running.
Lead clips should never be used running. I've seen stupid idiot tackle manufacturers advocating this before online. It's absolute lunacy and probably the most dangerous lead set up that you could possibly have.
It's akin to getting in a car with your missus, putting on the seat belt... But wrapping it twice around your throat first. It's just not safe. Your missus will call you a ****ing idiot and ask you what the **** you are doing. You are taking an incredibly well designed product, but putting your own little spin on it. Your own little spin that is making it incredibly dangerous.
As for leads on lead clips not ejecting when the fish charges into weed.... That's simply in no way whatsoever true. If you are using a lead clip and the lead does not eject in weed... That is 100% user error from putting on the tail rubber to far. A well set up lead clip WILL eject the lead EVERY time when a fish hits weed. Every single time without exception.
In reply to Post #33
I get the whole mechanics thing, but you have to put the sleeve on soo lightly for it to come off, which is not ideal for obvious reasons. (when it hits the water)
And holding a weight with a pear of pliers hanging down and shaking it does NOT simulate a fish shaking it's head attached to a fishing rod.
I have untethered fish where the rubber has been attached lightly.
I get the whole mechanics thing, but you have to put the sleeve on soo lightly for it to come off, which is not ideal for obvious reasons. (when it hits the water)
And holding a weight with a pear of pliers hanging down and shaking it does NOT simulate a fish shaking it's head attached to a fishing rod.
I have untethered fish where the rubber has been attached lightly.
OK Danny....
You seem to just want to argue a completely stupid point, when you are absolutely wrong & very clearly don't understand how things work at all.
You can easily use lead clips with NO tail rubber whatsoever (lots do this when zig fishing). The lead will not come off on the cast when feathered. You can trim the lug on a lead clip with a tail rubber so the lead comes off instantly. The lead clip is one of the most clever inventions ever for carp fishing. A running lead should be used with a large bore ring/swivel. Not a small bore two inch plastic tube.
As long as novices or young anglers reading this understand that you are talking absolute ******** just to argue a stupid point is all that really matters.
Lead clips are not designed to be fished running. Doing so is incredibly dangerous. In the event of a crack off up the mainline you have a running lead on a very thin small holed bit of solid plastic. When that is 10 yards away from the hooked fish it becomes VIRTUALLY impossible for that fish to then eject that lead off of that clip. When the small plastic bore catches up to the birds nest, it's normally a dead fish in that case as the pressure as the fish pulls is jamming the tail rubber back onto the clip, physically not allowing the lead to come off. Think about it. The fish pulls, the tail rubber is being forced back against the clip.
After your previous comments, you clearly are not just going to accept that you are wrong, no matter how many people tell you that you are.
You are clearly on a little wind up, or just stubborn to the point of silliness. On that note I'm out
You seem to just want to argue a completely stupid point, when you are absolutely wrong & very clearly don't understand how things work at all.
You can easily use lead clips with NO tail rubber whatsoever (lots do this when zig fishing). The lead will not come off on the cast when feathered. You can trim the lug on a lead clip with a tail rubber so the lead comes off instantly. The lead clip is one of the most clever inventions ever for carp fishing. A running lead should be used with a large bore ring/swivel. Not a small bore two inch plastic tube.
As long as novices or young anglers reading this understand that you are talking absolute ******** just to argue a stupid point is all that really matters.
Lead clips are not designed to be fished running. Doing so is incredibly dangerous. In the event of a crack off up the mainline you have a running lead on a very thin small holed bit of solid plastic. When that is 10 yards away from the hooked fish it becomes VIRTUALLY impossible for that fish to then eject that lead off of that clip. When the small plastic bore catches up to the birds nest, it's normally a dead fish in that case as the pressure as the fish pulls is jamming the tail rubber back onto the clip, physically not allowing the lead to come off. Think about it. The fish pulls, the tail rubber is being forced back against the clip.
After your previous comments, you clearly are not just going to accept that you are wrong, no matter how many people tell you that you are.
You are clearly on a little wind up, or just stubborn to the point of silliness. On that note I'm out
Beware, there are lead clips and proper working lead clips. I've got some I was given that will not work properly. The tail tab comes back to the tube at far too tight an angle, leaving virtually no gap between the tab and the end of the tube the swivel pushes into. Absolutely useless for anything, and potentially dangerous.
In reply to Post #36
"You can easily use lead clips with NO tail rubber whatsoever (lots do this when zig fishing)."
This is the principle of the brilliantly designed MCF lead clip where you don't use a tail rubber and the lead absolutely ejects instantly every time you get a bite.
Going back to my original post, what I was hoping to get to was a running rig arrangement, as stated in the club rules, but where I could eject the lead quickly and hopefully get the fish to come up in the water. I realise now that's something I'm not going to be able to achieve without a lot of messing about i.e. tying leads on with a rotten bottom etc. Ideally I would just use the MCF arrangement but I can't because of the rules.
As recommended below, I did buy a Fox Drop Off Run Rig Kit and didn't like it at all for many of the reasons listed by others below regarding the dangers of running rigs with lead clips. One of the things I didn't like is the clip itself is very tight when you insert the lead swivel. The fish can't eject the lead for you as it's a running rig so the lead won't come off until it's snagged in the weed which isn't what I want at all.
"You can easily use lead clips with NO tail rubber whatsoever (lots do this when zig fishing)."
This is the principle of the brilliantly designed MCF lead clip where you don't use a tail rubber and the lead absolutely ejects instantly every time you get a bite.
Going back to my original post, what I was hoping to get to was a running rig arrangement, as stated in the club rules, but where I could eject the lead quickly and hopefully get the fish to come up in the water. I realise now that's something I'm not going to be able to achieve without a lot of messing about i.e. tying leads on with a rotten bottom etc. Ideally I would just use the MCF arrangement but I can't because of the rules.
As recommended below, I did buy a Fox Drop Off Run Rig Kit and didn't like it at all for many of the reasons listed by others below regarding the dangers of running rigs with lead clips. One of the things I didn't like is the clip itself is very tight when you insert the lead swivel. The fish can't eject the lead for you as it's a running rig so the lead won't come off until it's snagged in the weed which isn't what I want at all.
In reply to Post #38
Not quite within the spirit of the rules, but could you use something along the lines of a lead clip without a tail rubber, or very lightly fitted tail rubber but instead of using a size 8 swivel use a size 11, or whatever you find suitable. Obviously this would be a loose fit so giving you a running rig, but before casting put a piece of fine silicone tube, or grass, or anything else you think would work, inside the lead clip to give the swivel a slightly snug fit. It would require a bit of experimenting to get the swivel just tight enough to eject the lead everytime so as not to be left with the clip running on the line with the lead still attached. One thing I've found that helps the lead discharge with minimal resistance is to tie a small mono loop onto the lead wire/swivel and use this to attach the lead to the clip.
Not quite within the spirit of the rules, but could you use something along the lines of a lead clip without a tail rubber, or very lightly fitted tail rubber but instead of using a size 8 swivel use a size 11, or whatever you find suitable. Obviously this would be a loose fit so giving you a running rig, but before casting put a piece of fine silicone tube, or grass, or anything else you think would work, inside the lead clip to give the swivel a slightly snug fit. It would require a bit of experimenting to get the swivel just tight enough to eject the lead everytime so as not to be left with the clip running on the line with the lead still attached. One thing I've found that helps the lead discharge with minimal resistance is to tie a small mono loop onto the lead wire/swivel and use this to attach the lead to the clip.