In reply to Post #8
Hi Christian, can I ask the reasons behind getting the baits into the freezer asap?
Hi Christian, can I ask the reasons behind getting the baits into the freezer asap?
With the suggested recipies it would be interesting to see the cost per kg of bait made.
In reply to Post #28
Hi BB,
I was told (by a bait maker) that 4% of hydros is top for freebies. Some kind of damages may occur to the fish.
He didn't explain why unfortunately.
Hi BB,
I was told (by a bait maker) that 4% of hydros is top for freebies. Some kind of damages may occur to the fish.
He didn't explain why unfortunately.
In reply to Post #33
I'm not convinced by that one bit. 4% max? Sounds like that was purely based on cost, not research.
I'm not convinced by that one bit. 4% max? Sounds like that was purely based on cost, not research.
In reply to Post #34
Got to agree on that. Sounds wrong.
Some hydros work their best at a higher level than that. And that in a pellet that is eaten immediately, not in a boilie that will sit on the bottom leaking for hours.
Got to agree on that. Sounds wrong.
Some hydros work their best at a higher level than that. And that in a pellet that is eaten immediately, not in a boilie that will sit on the bottom leaking for hours.
In reply to Post #35
That's good. I would love to use more.
To make a point.... he said that about freebies. That's mean big quantities and freebies considered as a food.
For baits (even more for high attract ones) it's different.
Suppose that he had in mind powdered hydro not liquid ones. The latter go out of bait quickly.
Buy the way what is highest possible inclusion rate suggested then? For example of fish hydrolisate?
And alongside with predigested fishmeal as well?
That's good. I would love to use more.
To make a point.... he said that about freebies. That's mean big quantities and freebies considered as a food.
For baits (even more for high attract ones) it's different.
Suppose that he had in mind powdered hydro not liquid ones. The latter go out of bait quickly.
Buy the way what is highest possible inclusion rate suggested then? For example of fish hydrolisate?
And alongside with predigested fishmeal as well?
In reply to Post #34
Hi NW
No, I don't think so as he is selling ingredients as well.
Hi NW
No, I don't think so as he is selling ingredients as well.
In reply to Post #37
Full on milk proteins are an interesting concept. I have always thought tho that what they make up for in protein, aminos ans soluble attractiveness, they lacked in many other aspects of what carp need. I love milks in all of my baits but I feel happier and get better results when you round a bait off with the other elements like salts minerals and liquids.
Full on milk proteins are an interesting concept. I have always thought tho that what they make up for in protein, aminos ans soluble attractiveness, they lacked in many other aspects of what carp need. I love milks in all of my baits but I feel happier and get better results when you round a bait off with the other elements like salts minerals and liquids.
In reply to Post #33
Damages to the fish - really.... surely that cannot be right.
What with an easier to digest food, more availability of key Amino Acids, less stress on the fishes system as it gets the benefit from said bait or paste.
Sounds like a budget issue TBH.
Damages to the fish - really.... surely that cannot be right.
What with an easier to digest food, more availability of key Amino Acids, less stress on the fishes system as it gets the benefit from said bait or paste.
Sounds like a budget issue TBH.
In reply to Post #36
BB and myself got an enzyme project going and we aim for a very high amount of hydrolyzed protein in this. Then again we don't focus on boiled baits at this stage. In a boiled bait it limits itself on the rollability as it gets sticky at higher rates, usually at 15-25 % depending on other ingredients.
The only reason to keep inclusion rates low that I can think of is because of the salt content of some hydros. Or with some enzymes bitter compounds may be formed that affect palatability but I doubt that is an issue in a commercial product. But he may well have other, valid reasons. Any particular hydro he say should be max 4%?
BB and myself got an enzyme project going and we aim for a very high amount of hydrolyzed protein in this. Then again we don't focus on boiled baits at this stage. In a boiled bait it limits itself on the rollability as it gets sticky at higher rates, usually at 15-25 % depending on other ingredients.
The only reason to keep inclusion rates low that I can think of is because of the salt content of some hydros. Or with some enzymes bitter compounds may be formed that affect palatability but I doubt that is an issue in a commercial product. But he may well have other, valid reasons. Any particular hydro he say should be max 4%?
In reply to Post #28
BB, I had started of with 5% inclusion of a whey product with 25% hydrolysis, and it worked well, although was very attractive to bream as well. The 5% came from a n article by Geoff Bowers I think. Anyway could not get that product anymore and started using one that had12/13% hydrolysis. Still caught well. Then saw Peptpro and tried swopping it for the whey at same quantity. It worked but not as well, trouble is other things could be in play, very much gut feeling to be honest, tried using both together and catchs fell right off. Ever since just kept to the whey product. I am pretty sure less is best in many cases
BB, I had started of with 5% inclusion of a whey product with 25% hydrolysis, and it worked well, although was very attractive to bream as well. The 5% came from a n article by Geoff Bowers I think. Anyway could not get that product anymore and started using one that had12/13% hydrolysis. Still caught well. Then saw Peptpro and tried swopping it for the whey at same quantity. It worked but not as well, trouble is other things could be in play, very much gut feeling to be honest, tried using both together and catchs fell right off. Ever since just kept to the whey product. I am pretty sure less is best in many cases
In reply to Post #31
Mike
Two reasons, I don't think they hold as much moisture as other ingredients and so dry out very quickly.
Second I always seemed to catch best when the baits were fresh, even now when I go over 15% milk protein I like to freeze asap.
Bob
Mike
Two reasons, I don't think they hold as much moisture as other ingredients and so dry out very quickly.
Second I always seemed to catch best when the baits were fresh, even now when I go over 15% milk protein I like to freeze asap.
Bob
In reply to Post #40
He confirmed 5%max. Soluble. And including liquid ones.
Some issues with digestion in the long run.
He is driving now. Promised more details tonight (after beer time)
He said there is no difference between 4%. and 10% in terms of attraction.
He confirmed 5%max. Soluble. And including liquid ones.
Some issues with digestion in the long run.
He is driving now. Promised more details tonight (after beer time)
He said there is no difference between 4%. and 10% in terms of attraction.
In reply to Post #36
Hi FPM,
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Hydros of fishmeal, milks, yeasts etc. are the exact same products, but which have had some of their protein broken down, which as Scaley said aids digestion.
However, we include them mainly to improve attraction.
When a bed of boilies has been in the water for several hours, the lake bacteria will gradually break down the protein completely while releasing a big feed signal.
All we do with hydros or added enzymes is speed up the process.
BB.
Hi FPM,
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Hydros of fishmeal, milks, yeasts etc. are the exact same products, but which have had some of their protein broken down, which as Scaley said aids digestion.
However, we include them mainly to improve attraction.
When a bed of boilies has been in the water for several hours, the lake bacteria will gradually break down the protein completely while releasing a big feed signal.
All we do with hydros or added enzymes is speed up the process.
BB.
In reply to Post #44
Would adding 2-3% of Brocacel yeast maximise the milk protein mix nutrient breakdown once eaten, as well as adding a good source of B vitamins.
Would adding 2-3% of Brocacel yeast maximise the milk protein mix nutrient breakdown once eaten, as well as adding a good source of B vitamins.