I was asked this question by someone today, and thought, well, let´s ask the doyens on here to give a clear & concise answer, in layman´s terms 
Q : My boilie has a total of 40% protein, so how much of that is easily digestible protein that is used up, and how much is shat out ?
Answers please
Q : My boilie has a total of 40% protein, so how much of that is easily digestible protein that is used up, and how much is shat out ?
Answers please
In reply to Post #1
Depends on the source of the protein and the AA profile of each protein source. Very difficult but not impossible to research and work out
Depends on the source of the protein and the AA profile of each protein source. Very difficult but not impossible to research and work out
In reply to Post #1
So many variables to that answer in fact almost infinite number until you give a recipe. And even then it's not exact, you need his exact method and storage conditions for the bait and even then, it's down to the Capra feeding habits.
Have you ever been to the pub and been going for a piss in between every couple of pints? The exact same thing can happen to carp gorging on bait ( usually the high carb crap baits ) to the point they're crapping it out on the mat. This is a much faster intestinal transit time than a few boilies eaten casually and thus, considering how carp break down food, you get another variable in the answer. This is why koi carp are fed carefully and excess food removed.
On the basis of getting absolute complete recipes and preparation methods as well as storage methods, you can forecast a best case scenario as to how much potential the protein content of the bait has. This is different to working out and mimicking a carps requirements
So many variables to that answer in fact almost infinite number until you give a recipe. And even then it's not exact, you need his exact method and storage conditions for the bait and even then, it's down to the Capra feeding habits.
Have you ever been to the pub and been going for a piss in between every couple of pints? The exact same thing can happen to carp gorging on bait ( usually the high carb crap baits ) to the point they're crapping it out on the mat. This is a much faster intestinal transit time than a few boilies eaten casually and thus, considering how carp break down food, you get another variable in the answer. This is why koi carp are fed carefully and excess food removed.
On the basis of getting absolute complete recipes and preparation methods as well as storage methods, you can forecast a best case scenario as to how much potential the protein content of the bait has. This is different to working out and mimicking a carps requirements
In reply to Post #1
"how much is shat out" is that the technical term?
"how much is shat out" is that the technical term?
In reply to Post #1
If you have ever seen a Carps excretion you will notice that what comes out is not very different in its makeup , I have seen carp pass tigernuts and boilie and although the boilie was a mush it was still the same colour as the original boilie , the tigernuts looks very similar to what is going in , I have even seen carp pass mussels , and even those were similar.
I am not certain as to how much of the protein is used up in the carps digestion process but one thing I'm certain of is it's not very much , not as much as a human anyway.
If you have ever seen a Carps excretion you will notice that what comes out is not very different in its makeup , I have seen carp pass tigernuts and boilie and although the boilie was a mush it was still the same colour as the original boilie , the tigernuts looks very similar to what is going in , I have even seen carp pass mussels , and even those were similar.
I am not certain as to how much of the protein is used up in the carps digestion process but one thing I'm certain of is it's not very much , not as much as a human anyway.
In reply to Post #1
I'm sure there is scientific papers out there that say carp can only process so much protein. Think it's around the 35-40% mark.
The FAO details, which are outdated I guess and for aquaculture purposes
I'm sure there is scientific papers out there that say carp can only process so much protein. Think it's around the 35-40% mark.
The FAO details, which are outdated I guess and for aquaculture purposes
In reply to Post #6
That number between 35-40 % I have read too.
A while back I read an article about casein that was consumed by carp. The digestability was high (around 80 %) but it stayed in their in their system (retention time) for almost 5 hours while amino acids stayed in there for about 1,5 hour.
I talked about this with Ynnek (on this forum) and I got out of it that I won't use milk protein in winter as it will fill the fish up.
That number between 35-40 % I have read too.
A while back I read an article about casein that was consumed by carp. The digestability was high (around 80 %) but it stayed in their in their system (retention time) for almost 5 hours while amino acids stayed in there for about 1,5 hour.
I talked about this with Ynnek (on this forum) and I got out of it that I won't use milk protein in winter as it will fill the fish up.
In reply to Post #7
Really interesting, do you have a link to that article?
Really interesting, do you have a link to that article?
In reply to Post #7
under normal circumstances yes, but fish can still gorge themselves in winter on some venues.
The bait we've just finishd was built with cold water in mind and features caseins, caseinates and wheyproteins amount a wide array of ingredients and omitting them honestly did the bait a diservice.
under normal circumstances yes, but fish can still gorge themselves in winter on some venues.
The bait we've just finishd was built with cold water in mind and features caseins, caseinates and wheyproteins amount a wide array of ingredients and omitting them honestly did the bait a diservice.
In reply to Post #9
Disservice in what way? Less catches?
Did you use the bait for longer periods on the same lake? If so, did you notice any change in effectiveness?
Disservice in what way? Less catches?
Did you use the bait for longer periods on the same lake? If so, did you notice any change in effectiveness?
In reply to Post #9
Something that a couple of European anglers experienced is that baits containing high milks content are excellent for instant fishing. Once you introduce a lot of bait (something we, Belgians and dutch anglers, often do) the catch rate of baits loaded with milks goes down over time. It could be that although the milks have excellent digestibility (94% +) the saturate much more. This is also something the paper mentioned. Baits containing milks spend more time in the digestive system of the carp compared to other baits with similar protein content and digistability.
In addition,
The only enzyme that are active in the digestive track of carp during colder months are enzymes that help digisting animal protein.
This is logical since all vegetation has died off...
Something that a couple of European anglers experienced is that baits containing high milks content are excellent for instant fishing. Once you introduce a lot of bait (something we, Belgians and dutch anglers, often do) the catch rate of baits loaded with milks goes down over time. It could be that although the milks have excellent digestibility (94% +) the saturate much more. This is also something the paper mentioned. Baits containing milks spend more time in the digestive system of the carp compared to other baits with similar protein content and digistability.
In addition,
The only enzyme that are active in the digestive track of carp during colder months are enzymes that help digisting animal protein.
This is logical since all vegetation has died off...