In reply to Post #1
Not done anything like that, but I've used my boiled water to then soak into particles which works a treat
Not done anything like that, but I've used my boiled water to then soak into particles which works a treat
In reply to Post #2
That's quite interesting to be honest
I don't know the answer I'm sure I've looked into the amount of salt , water can hold
In the past, as I am,was heavily into koi
To be honest studying water is a mind bender in itself
Salt would only probably satisfy part of the equation,
My current base mix dosnt seem to leach much into the pan when boiling as I've experienced in the past
I understand why baits are steamed maybe to reduce this and the effects on whatever's in the bait
Just got back into making bait, and the answers I was looking for then , are basically the same today
Reading Rod Hutchinsons books inspired me to try my luck, bait making dosnt seem to have moved
forward , considering what he wrote back then
That's quite interesting to be honest
I don't know the answer I'm sure I've looked into the amount of salt , water can hold
In the past, as I am,was heavily into koi
To be honest studying water is a mind bender in itself
Salt would only probably satisfy part of the equation,
My current base mix dosnt seem to leach much into the pan when boiling as I've experienced in the past
I understand why baits are steamed maybe to reduce this and the effects on whatever's in the bait
Just got back into making bait, and the answers I was looking for then , are basically the same today
Reading Rod Hutchinsons books inspired me to try my luck, bait making dosnt seem to have moved
forward , considering what he wrote back then
In reply to Post #3
Edit . It must have moved forward to some extent 😂
Most of us can use long words and sound like we know what we are doing
Myself , I understand the basics but am really clueless 👍🏻
Edit . It must have moved forward to some extent 😂
Most of us can use long words and sound like we know what we are doing
Myself , I understand the basics but am really clueless 👍🏻
In reply to Post #1
Yes
Over the years tried quite a few, straight off the top of my head, Brown sugar, salted, CSL, molasses and honey. Amazing how much comes out of baits when you boil them, especially milks!
What I will say is be careful with high levels of CSL and molasses, does not seem to get a proper boil on for me
I always used to think about it as putting something back into them. When you boil potatoes without salt they are disgusting, when you taste boiled baits (without tweaks) they are pretty bland on the palate, to me
Salt is easy but a tricky one for me and I can't make my mind up if it's the right thing to do, draws moisture out but I know carp like it. Something I realised quite a while ago when glugging baits with hydro, the hydro does not penetrate well because of the salt content, it has a reverse effect for me, draws the moisture out, the baits go hard and the glug goes very watery
Try honey, I have tried large levels of artificial sweetener too, dissolves well and it's cheap
Yes
Over the years tried quite a few, straight off the top of my head, Brown sugar, salted, CSL, molasses and honey. Amazing how much comes out of baits when you boil them, especially milks!
What I will say is be careful with high levels of CSL and molasses, does not seem to get a proper boil on for me
I always used to think about it as putting something back into them. When you boil potatoes without salt they are disgusting, when you taste boiled baits (without tweaks) they are pretty bland on the palate, to me
Salt is easy but a tricky one for me and I can't make my mind up if it's the right thing to do, draws moisture out but I know carp like it. Something I realised quite a while ago when glugging baits with hydro, the hydro does not penetrate well because of the salt content, it has a reverse effect for me, draws the moisture out, the baits go hard and the glug goes very watery
Try honey, I have tried large levels of artificial sweetener too, dissolves well and it's cheap
In reply to Post #5
I find if you use the same water over end over for a while baits seem to leach less during the boiling process so it's defiantly an advantage. But as mentioned below to much and the boil can be affected.
I find if you use the same water over end over for a while baits seem to leach less during the boiling process so it's defiantly an advantage. But as mentioned below to much and the boil can be affected.
Heat is the enemy of baits - washing out chemicals and but more importantly denaturing.
Stick with clean water and if you want to add extra chemicals, add as a cold water post-boil soak.
Stick with clean water and if you want to add extra chemicals, add as a cold water post-boil soak.
In reply to Post #7
Denaturing is not always bad. If you take a protein, as an example, the denaturing breaks down the amino acids chains making them shorter chains and thus easier to digest
Denaturing is not always bad. If you take a protein, as an example, the denaturing breaks down the amino acids chains making them shorter chains and thus easier to digest
In reply to Post #8
Indeed that's also my understanding! However, the denaturation process is often named as the biggest disadvantage of heat treatment of baits. Same is true for the Mailliard reaction which from my understanding is a process occurring when the heating process takes place in absence of water (I.e roasting processes). So this should not apply to cooking or steaming process anyway.
I have always wondered if I'm missing something in that regard???
Indeed that's also my understanding! However, the denaturation process is often named as the biggest disadvantage of heat treatment of baits. Same is true for the Mailliard reaction which from my understanding is a process occurring when the heating process takes place in absence of water (I.e roasting processes). So this should not apply to cooking or steaming process anyway.
I have always wondered if I'm missing something in that regard???
In reply to Post #9
In my understanding the Maillard prosess is amino acids and simple sugars reacting.
Abcense of water is not needed but will allow higher temperatures and a faster process.
Interesting stuff
In my understanding the Maillard prosess is amino acids and simple sugars reacting.
Abcense of water is not needed but will allow higher temperatures and a faster process.
Interesting stuff
"Heat is the enemy of baits" - Dave Moore recently said this on a facebook chat, sounded like some of their best baits are not boiled 
In reply to Post #11
Anyone tried turmeric in the same way you might make yellow rice?
Anyone tried turmeric in the same way you might make yellow rice?
In reply to Post #11
No brainier really when you think about it. I think it goes back to the whole reason we use boilies, to prevent nuisance fish destroying the bat.
A very attractive ball of paste, bound with egg which is then boiled, dried, frozen, defrosted, air dried etc.
One thing about egg bound baits what I do not like is the skinned effect, all those fancy attractors sealed in, good for the fish when they eat it, not the best for attraction when you really think about it, really
There are far, far better options, crumb for starters, water will some permeate this and then better options still
No brainier really when you think about it. I think it goes back to the whole reason we use boilies, to prevent nuisance fish destroying the bat.
A very attractive ball of paste, bound with egg which is then boiled, dried, frozen, defrosted, air dried etc.
One thing about egg bound baits what I do not like is the skinned effect, all those fancy attractors sealed in, good for the fish when they eat it, not the best for attraction when you really think about it, really
There are far, far better options, crumb for starters, water will some permeate this and then better options still
In reply to Post #8
Reply to posts 7,8 and 9
Denaturing ( by heat) is not the process that “breaks” the amino acid chains to form free amino acids or “shorter” chains
The peptide bonds that link the amino acids together to form the protein polymers are broken via a hydrolysis reaction that requires the presence of a catalyst ( eg specific enzymes)
Denaturing due to heat merely “ re arranges “ the structural shape of the polymer chain .This may make any subsequent hydrolysis reaction ( digestion or external enzyme action) “easier or more difficult” to achieve depending on the polymer type.
Loss of amino acids due to any maillard reaction during the boiling process would generally be insignificant considering the times and temperatures involved. A few amino acids can be heat damaged ; but again this would not really be of any significance.
Leaching of solubles would form the main loss route attributable to the boiling process.
Reply to posts 7,8 and 9
Denaturing ( by heat) is not the process that “breaks” the amino acid chains to form free amino acids or “shorter” chains
The peptide bonds that link the amino acids together to form the protein polymers are broken via a hydrolysis reaction that requires the presence of a catalyst ( eg specific enzymes)
Denaturing due to heat merely “ re arranges “ the structural shape of the polymer chain .This may make any subsequent hydrolysis reaction ( digestion or external enzyme action) “easier or more difficult” to achieve depending on the polymer type.
Loss of amino acids due to any maillard reaction during the boiling process would generally be insignificant considering the times and temperatures involved. A few amino acids can be heat damaged ; but again this would not really be of any significance.
Leaching of solubles would form the main loss route attributable to the boiling process.
In reply to Post #1
I seriously think you're putting too much mind energy into this. Just boil your bait as normal and carry on boiling all of your baits in the same water untill you've boiled them all. Go to a lake, find um, feed um, and catch um. It really is that easy. Unless your bait is made of sawdust and you're not miles off um, you will catch.
As interesting as the amino, break down of proteins is, it's just a rather pointless rabbit hole. I've known blokes who have emptied lakes with just sacks of dog food, just added water from a bag of gear and literally hauled. No need to complicate something that isn't complicated.
I seriously think you're putting too much mind energy into this. Just boil your bait as normal and carry on boiling all of your baits in the same water untill you've boiled them all. Go to a lake, find um, feed um, and catch um. It really is that easy. Unless your bait is made of sawdust and you're not miles off um, you will catch.
As interesting as the amino, break down of proteins is, it's just a rather pointless rabbit hole. I've known blokes who have emptied lakes with just sacks of dog food, just added water from a bag of gear and literally hauled. No need to complicate something that isn't complicated.
In reply to Post #14
Leaching of solubles would form the main loss route attributable to the boiling process.
Exactly that for me, hence my comments about milks, even a small percentage in baits and they colour up the water
Interesting info btw
Leaching of solubles would form the main loss route attributable to the boiling process.
Exactly that for me, hence my comments about milks, even a small percentage in baits and they colour up the water
Interesting info btw