In reply to Post #517
Exactly this. Jobs already done I don't need to spend an extra tenner
Exactly this. Jobs already done I don't need to spend an extra tenner
In reply to Post #516
Nope. I personally think they spent a load of money and then when they tested and saw what we can see they thought we better get the spin machine working not only to make the money back but to make a huge profit from their following. I use tackle that suites my fishing and from who ever sells the best for that job but it seems that people are very tribal when it comes to brands.
Nope. I personally think they spent a load of money and then when they tested and saw what we can see they thought we better get the spin machine working not only to make the money back but to make a huge profit from their following. I use tackle that suites my fishing and from who ever sells the best for that job but it seems that people are very tribal when it comes to brands.
In reply to Post #519
In this case it has more to do with dislike for the guy promoting said brand.
In this case it has more to do with dislike for the guy promoting said brand.
In reply to Post #516
Totally agree. It will have piqued the interest of the noddies, who don't give a damn about fish care. They will only get the message when they realise the product is garbage, won't work and you have to use a pva tie for every decent cast.....with wet hands and wet components.
Totally agree. It will have piqued the interest of the noddies, who don't give a damn about fish care. They will only get the message when they realise the product is garbage, won't work and you have to use a pva tie for every decent cast.....with wet hands and wet components.
In reply to Post #521
That's why you have to buy 4 for 3 rods, so 1 can dry out ready for the next cast..This thing is never going to be a success
That's why you have to buy 4 for 3 rods, so 1 can dry out ready for the next cast..This thing is never going to be a success
In reply to Post #520
Quote... In this case it has more to do with dislike for the guy promoting said brand.
I have avoided commenting on this. But I would say that you are 100% right. And also the man underneath who said it's all tribal. Carp fishing is totally tribal. Many sponsored anglers making comments, who would never say **** all if their own company brought it to market.
I do not know Ali. I have two good friends who do know him well personally (one for thirty plus years) and both really like him. I trust both of them, so he must be alright. As someone who makes their living from carp fishing, I like him for one thing, he has brought a massive amount of anglers into our sport over the last decade. He is the public face of carp fishing really isn't he. We live in a media age, and Ali has embraced that.
That's also the reason that a lot of older anglers absolutely hate him though, because everywhere is as busy as now. I also personally heavily disagree with 'Cheshire mere' Ali, now teaching all the yewts that Big Rig type waters are all tickerty boo, simply because of a new business venture. The whole ethos seems to have changed overnight. Me and him are around the same age, but we could not be more different people, or anglers, at totally opposite ends of both of those spectrums.
I wonder what Ali would do publicity wise, with our hook baits? A lot better than me, that's for sure.
The staged crying? Over a of bit of Chinese plastic, that are about to sell for a tenner for two..... Come on, fack me that's scraping the barrel just a little bit.
I almost think they wanted to cause this reaction, but it's now gone a little bit to far, and bit back. Marketing it, as a self striking component, is just so incredibly naive if you really think about it. That has always been a no no. Even worse when the targeted audience is more novice anglers. Dividing carp fishing, and publicly creating a **** storm over something like this, is really not cool at all in today's age. All field sports are under pressure from the do gooders. Giving them ammo, is not cool at all.
Mike Hutchinson who is involved with OMC, is one of the old Cemex/RMC lakes crew. I cannot see him allowing anything actually dangerous to be brought to market. Surely not. Ali has started up a new business, with big funding everyone keeps saying. So they had to come up with something 'big' fast. I hope it works out for him/them. I am sure he will have learned a lesson from all this if it does.
Quote... In this case it has more to do with dislike for the guy promoting said brand.
I have avoided commenting on this. But I would say that you are 100% right. And also the man underneath who said it's all tribal. Carp fishing is totally tribal. Many sponsored anglers making comments, who would never say **** all if their own company brought it to market.
I do not know Ali. I have two good friends who do know him well personally (one for thirty plus years) and both really like him. I trust both of them, so he must be alright. As someone who makes their living from carp fishing, I like him for one thing, he has brought a massive amount of anglers into our sport over the last decade. He is the public face of carp fishing really isn't he. We live in a media age, and Ali has embraced that.
That's also the reason that a lot of older anglers absolutely hate him though, because everywhere is as busy as now. I also personally heavily disagree with 'Cheshire mere' Ali, now teaching all the yewts that Big Rig type waters are all tickerty boo, simply because of a new business venture. The whole ethos seems to have changed overnight. Me and him are around the same age, but we could not be more different people, or anglers, at totally opposite ends of both of those spectrums.
I wonder what Ali would do publicity wise, with our hook baits? A lot better than me, that's for sure.
The staged crying? Over a of bit of Chinese plastic, that are about to sell for a tenner for two..... Come on, fack me that's scraping the barrel just a little bit.
I almost think they wanted to cause this reaction, but it's now gone a little bit to far, and bit back. Marketing it, as a self striking component, is just so incredibly naive if you really think about it. That has always been a no no. Even worse when the targeted audience is more novice anglers. Dividing carp fishing, and publicly creating a **** storm over something like this, is really not cool at all in today's age. All field sports are under pressure from the do gooders. Giving them ammo, is not cool at all.
Mike Hutchinson who is involved with OMC, is one of the old Cemex/RMC lakes crew. I cannot see him allowing anything actually dangerous to be brought to market. Surely not. Ali has started up a new business, with big funding everyone keeps saying. So they had to come up with something 'big' fast. I hope it works out for him/them. I am sure he will have learned a lesson from all this if it does.
After a couple of weeks - for me it seems fairly clear. If you take a totally objective view.
No matter what the size of the thing, whether it works as intended or not the simple facts that didn't need testing are:
Every fish you land has to go in dead centre of the net and not make any lunges until safely in the folds of the bottom.
You need to be able to safely unhook the fish in the water - I do anyway/ try to, but I use barbless hooks for 90% of my fishing - also there are always shallow type swims where it is safer to remove the fish from the water - or I have had hook holds that you simply can't unhook in the water.
For me - and I have fished for carp for well over 40 years - the above two basic requirements are impossible to meet 100% of the time - so forget rig ethics, it is not safe and can never be. The fins will get caught in net meshes - it will happen less with good angling - but it will happen.
If I had a lake I would ban it. If I had a shop I would not stock it. If I had a business no matter what the cost of tooling and patents I would not bring it to market - I would be clever enough to believe the ‘we got this wrong' is a better long term strategy that shows honesty and integrity.
You don't need to like or dislike Ali or his company. I can't think of a single product that has debuted that risks damage more than this. Lead core maybe? But that was evolution from other types of fishing- can be used safely and wasn't invented for profit.
Hormones, get you more bites - but they are dangerous and illegal- if they were just dangerous would someone bring them to market - with Ali like instructions how to mitigate the serious consequences- would we be debating it?
I hope Ali builds a successful brand, I wish him the very best - I also wish he had enough about him to never release this god awful product. If 75% of people can use it properly 90% of the time, that's a hell of a lot of ripped mouths.
As for the ‘be convinced' ‘try it' brigade it's shameful absolutely shameful. Double hook rigs are safe some of the time - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck....guess what?
No matter what the size of the thing, whether it works as intended or not the simple facts that didn't need testing are:
Every fish you land has to go in dead centre of the net and not make any lunges until safely in the folds of the bottom.
You need to be able to safely unhook the fish in the water - I do anyway/ try to, but I use barbless hooks for 90% of my fishing - also there are always shallow type swims where it is safer to remove the fish from the water - or I have had hook holds that you simply can't unhook in the water.
For me - and I have fished for carp for well over 40 years - the above two basic requirements are impossible to meet 100% of the time - so forget rig ethics, it is not safe and can never be. The fins will get caught in net meshes - it will happen less with good angling - but it will happen.
If I had a lake I would ban it. If I had a shop I would not stock it. If I had a business no matter what the cost of tooling and patents I would not bring it to market - I would be clever enough to believe the ‘we got this wrong' is a better long term strategy that shows honesty and integrity.
You don't need to like or dislike Ali or his company. I can't think of a single product that has debuted that risks damage more than this. Lead core maybe? But that was evolution from other types of fishing- can be used safely and wasn't invented for profit.
Hormones, get you more bites - but they are dangerous and illegal- if they were just dangerous would someone bring them to market - with Ali like instructions how to mitigate the serious consequences- would we be debating it?
I hope Ali builds a successful brand, I wish him the very best - I also wish he had enough about him to never release this god awful product. If 75% of people can use it properly 90% of the time, that's a hell of a lot of ripped mouths.
As for the ‘be convinced' ‘try it' brigade it's shameful absolutely shameful. Double hook rigs are safe some of the time - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck....guess what?
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this is a picture that someone has put on Facebook, you're not telling me a fish towing that through a weed bed or snags isnt going to get snagged??
The lead won't be able to come off the lead clip as the twig will tangled in weed and debris, The fish won't be able to shake the lead off the lead clip due to the spring absorbing the head shakes.
In reply to Post #524
That's an excellent post.
I agree ref the shameful ‘just give it a go' argument.
Internet fishing genius Jordan Realtree put it bestthe other day on Facebook or Instagram when they tries to get him to give it a go. His response was that he didn't need to tread in dog turd to know that it was a dog turd
This whole product is a dog turd!
No hate for Ali from me or his brand. There is now though and I wouldn't touch a single product of theirs after this.
That's an excellent post.
I agree ref the shameful ‘just give it a go' argument.
Internet fishing genius Jordan Realtree put it bestthe other day on Facebook or Instagram when they tries to get him to give it a go. His response was that he didn't need to tread in dog turd to know that it was a dog turd
This whole product is a dog turd!
No hate for Ali from me or his brand. There is now though and I wouldn't touch a single product of theirs after this.
In reply to Post #525
I've not seen it personally to know if it's dangerous mate, apart from in memes. I don't follow any fishing social media like that, I never watch any of it, never have, never will. I would rather insert hot pins into both eyes.
My comments below, were solely on what I have read on this thread, and comments on Faceache.
My comments were regards many people saying you need the lead to set the hook first, so it's all a bit pointless as a self hooking rig. So why market it as that in the first place?
Looking at your photo though Andy.... OMFGG!!!! On the take, in a weedy pit that will rip their faces to bits as they charge off though a weedbed, no wonder so many lakes are banning it.
It's very simple... Forget the self hooking sales patter, get those stupid god awful fins off of the side and just have the elastication to keep the hook in.
Ali's target audience will lap it up, they will sell just as many anyway.... Without causing all of this what's going on now.
I am a bit surprised that no one has asked the question (unless I missed it)... Where are all the prime UK carp caught on this contraption too? If it did what it's supposed too, surely the inventor is the new Terry Hearn right? Got an album stuffed full of premium big UK carp, as he has gone around testing his product?
I've not seen it personally to know if it's dangerous mate, apart from in memes. I don't follow any fishing social media like that, I never watch any of it, never have, never will. I would rather insert hot pins into both eyes.
My comments below, were solely on what I have read on this thread, and comments on Faceache.
My comments were regards many people saying you need the lead to set the hook first, so it's all a bit pointless as a self hooking rig. So why market it as that in the first place?
Looking at your photo though Andy.... OMFGG!!!! On the take, in a weedy pit that will rip their faces to bits as they charge off though a weedbed, no wonder so many lakes are banning it.
It's very simple... Forget the self hooking sales patter, get those stupid god awful fins off of the side and just have the elastication to keep the hook in.
Ali's target audience will lap it up, they will sell just as many anyway.... Without causing all of this what's going on now.
I am a bit surprised that no one has asked the question (unless I missed it)... Where are all the prime UK carp caught on this contraption too? If it did what it's supposed too, surely the inventor is the new Terry Hearn right? Got an album stuffed full of premium big UK carp, as he has gone around testing his product?
In reply to Post #527
That's an interesting point TC. The fins are a disaster. Little anchors. If they had just introduced a spring mechanism, internally, to use elasticity rather than a shock, it could have had merit.
That's an interesting point TC. The fins are a disaster. Little anchors. If they had just introduced a spring mechanism, internally, to use elasticity rather than a shock, it could have had merit.
In reply to Post #527
As you know mate none of the top anglers will use it. Nothing to do with sponsorships etc....it's because they know just from looking at it that it won't work and is not safe.....
As you know mate none of the top anglers will use it. Nothing to do with sponsorships etc....it's because they know just from looking at it that it won't work and is not safe.....
In reply to Post #526
No hate for Ali from me or his brand. There is now though and I wouldn't touch a single product of theirs after this.
No hate for him or their firm but you wouldn't use a single product of theirs. Sounds a bit like hate to me.
No hate for Ali from me or his brand. There is now though and I wouldn't touch a single product of theirs after this.
No hate for him or their firm but you wouldn't use a single product of theirs. Sounds a bit like hate to me.
In reply to Post #529
I feel a bit silly for my first post now after looking at that photo Andy posted. I am so clueless nowadays as I am bolted up 7 days a week working. I have watched all this going on, believing some of it is just hate for Ali.
But after looking at Andy's photo... I am actually dumbfounded. What the actual ****???
The ****ing stupidity of that right there, is actually quite scary. It's a sight to behold.
Midlandman, mate I meant the inventor.... Not any top anglers. No one would would look at that thing without creasing up laughing. I meant, if the contraption was all it was meant to be... The inventor himself would be some carp catching machine.
And then you have the Big Rig type lakes all declaring that thing in the photo is safe??
I feel a bit sick. We are sorry for their actions Mr Leney, Mr Middleton, Mr Hutchinson et al up in the sky.... For they simply do not have a clue, not looking at that photograph below they do not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3DPAX27sA&t=2s
(Please turn that into a link for me)
I feel a bit silly for my first post now after looking at that photo Andy posted. I am so clueless nowadays as I am bolted up 7 days a week working. I have watched all this going on, believing some of it is just hate for Ali.
But after looking at Andy's photo... I am actually dumbfounded. What the actual ****???
The ****ing stupidity of that right there, is actually quite scary. It's a sight to behold.
Midlandman, mate I meant the inventor.... Not any top anglers. No one would would look at that thing without creasing up laughing. I meant, if the contraption was all it was meant to be... The inventor himself would be some carp catching machine.
And then you have the Big Rig type lakes all declaring that thing in the photo is safe??
I feel a bit sick. We are sorry for their actions Mr Leney, Mr Middleton, Mr Hutchinson et al up in the sky.... For they simply do not have a clue, not looking at that photograph below they do not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3DPAX27sA&t=2s
(Please turn that into a link for me)
In reply to Post #527
Maybe I understood Ali wrong, but I'm sure he said they trialed ot for several years, in multiple countries, and caught 4 fish?
He spoke about all the underwater filming they did, but I think we only saw 2 seperate clips of fish picking it up, and one was a sh****r.
Maybe I understood Ali wrong, but I'm sure he said they trialed ot for several years, in multiple countries, and caught 4 fish?
He spoke about all the underwater filming they did, but I think we only saw 2 seperate clips of fish picking it up, and one was a sh****r.