So what was the ultimate decline in the baits?
Was it the fact that an ingredient became unavailable and was substituted for something else?
Was it that the company cut corners and failed on quality?
Was it the fact that an ingredient became unavailable and was substituted for something else?
Was it that the company cut corners and failed on quality?
In reply to Post #31
Possibly both.
Also not helped by making that next big step up in production volumes, a unit, staff, milk protein & fishmeal cost hikes you know.... making your rolling tables mixes become machine rolling friendly on a big scale.
Possibly both.
Also not helped by making that next big step up in production volumes, a unit, staff, milk protein & fishmeal cost hikes you know.... making your rolling tables mixes become machine rolling friendly on a big scale.
In reply to Post #31
In 2011-2012 Mark went through the trouble of getting fishmeal and other ingredients straight from factories in Norway to make sure they was as good and fresh as possible, so he was very quality concious at that time.
In 2011-2012 Mark went through the trouble of getting fishmeal and other ingredients straight from factories in Norway to make sure they was as good and fresh as possible, so he was very quality concious at that time.
In reply to Post #33
Hmm very odd why things went so sour then. I'm sure there was a reason, but no excuse. Does make you wonder though. His baits had almost a cult following in the valley. Seems strange to think that it was thrown away.
Hmm very odd why things went so sour then. I'm sure there was a reason, but no excuse. Does make you wonder though. His baits had almost a cult following in the valley. Seems strange to think that it was thrown away.
In reply to Post #34
I think two mistakes he made. Firstly he should never have started selling through shops. That was always gonna be a disaster. A massive following of guys buying direct ain't gonna start to pay £13 a kilo all of a sudden and shops soon get pissed when they've got a freezer full of bait no one will buy cos they can get it direct for half the price.
Secondly if mark had enough of rolling he should have gone to Active baits and said look guys, you know my baits good and catches. Here's the formula. You make it, roll it and distribute it and pay me a percentage. That way it's an all round win for everyone. With their buying power they could have kept the price down and the quality the same.
Trying to cheapen a mix won't ever work. It failed for baitcraft and it's back fired on urban ( remember them?)
I think two mistakes he made. Firstly he should never have started selling through shops. That was always gonna be a disaster. A massive following of guys buying direct ain't gonna start to pay £13 a kilo all of a sudden and shops soon get pissed when they've got a freezer full of bait no one will buy cos they can get it direct for half the price.
Secondly if mark had enough of rolling he should have gone to Active baits and said look guys, you know my baits good and catches. Here's the formula. You make it, roll it and distribute it and pay me a percentage. That way it's an all round win for everyone. With their buying power they could have kept the price down and the quality the same.
Trying to cheapen a mix won't ever work. It failed for baitcraft and it's back fired on urban ( remember them?)
In reply to Post #30
Which time was this? Remember him buying salmon oil.
Which time was this? Remember him buying salmon oil.
In reply to Post #36
He did release a bait called Savay Salmon. It could coincide with that.
He did release a bait called Savay Salmon. It could coincide with that.
In reply to Post #37
That was later I believe and also involving another ingredient
That was later I believe and also involving another ingredient
In reply to Post #37
The savay salmon smelt very similar to rich worth salmon supreme .
All the salmon boilies I bought were so soft they were used for crumbling.
The savay salmon smelt very similar to rich worth salmon supreme .
All the salmon boilies I bought were so soft they were used for crumbling.
In reply to Post #39
The Savay salmon was very similar base mix to T1, less the 10% Haiths Robin red and other bits and pieces. I thought.
But I was told by someone in Kent that was field testing the Savay Salmon for Mark, Pre release, that the ‘smell' was the original Pukka Salmon, first made famous, and sourced by Rod Hutchinson, and then, later on, Chris Haswell managed to source it, As I bought some off him.
I don't know if that is, or was correct
The Savay salmon was very similar base mix to T1, less the 10% Haiths Robin red and other bits and pieces. I thought.
But I was told by someone in Kent that was field testing the Savay Salmon for Mark, Pre release, that the ‘smell' was the original Pukka Salmon, first made famous, and sourced by Rod Hutchinson, and then, later on, Chris Haswell managed to source it, As I bought some off him.
I don't know if that is, or was correct
In reply to Post #40
I bought a bit of savay salmon a few months before things went pear shaped, I was catching well on it but by the time I was ready for a second order the price had halved and there were a lot of very negative comments about the baits changing. I remember he stopped using Robin red and made his own version which seemed a big deal at the time, not sure I'd be that bothered by that single change now as rr has changed anyway
I bought a bit of savay salmon a few months before things went pear shaped, I was catching well on it but by the time I was ready for a second order the price had halved and there were a lot of very negative comments about the baits changing. I remember he stopped using Robin red and made his own version which seemed a big deal at the time, not sure I'd be that bothered by that single change now as rr has changed anyway
In reply to Post #26
It sounds like we do, I heard a handful of horror stories from them.. shame as it goes really, his bait was fantastic in the beginning.. it's good to see some smaller companies still out there who work off smaller scales, maintaining quality and not being deers in the pound note headlights.
It sounds like we do, I heard a handful of horror stories from them.. shame as it goes really, his bait was fantastic in the beginning.. it's good to see some smaller companies still out there who work off smaller scales, maintaining quality and not being deers in the pound note headlights.
In reply to Post #42
Marks Bait T1 in particular was in the beginning, a top notch bait, outstanding to other baits for the money TBH.
The best fresh fishmeal, top notch milk proteins, feed enhancers, the whole package, several of my friends using it were not home bait makers, but raved about it, caught everywhere.
I did use 10kg of his special K/Super K to try, before it all went Pete Tong, but at the time was rolling my own, and using ABS/Geoffs bait as well.
Comparing results it was no better or worse for me than the other baits.
In hindsight, Sometimes it is better to stay as you are, smaller and fresher, lower overheads, etc.
Marks Bait T1 in particular was in the beginning, a top notch bait, outstanding to other baits for the money TBH.
The best fresh fishmeal, top notch milk proteins, feed enhancers, the whole package, several of my friends using it were not home bait makers, but raved about it, caught everywhere.
I did use 10kg of his special K/Super K to try, before it all went Pete Tong, but at the time was rolling my own, and using ABS/Geoffs bait as well.
Comparing results it was no better or worse for me than the other baits.
In hindsight, Sometimes it is better to stay as you are, smaller and fresher, lower overheads, etc.
Didn't one of the baits (super k?)have an ingredient in which pet food makers used to get the pet addicted to that certain food. I remember asking him about it at a show years ago when he was selling direct and he changed the subject to the " it's got high amount of cheese powder" , twice.
In reply to Post #44
The bait with an element of cheese was Halo I believe. K from memory was a meaty/spicy type bait.
T1, K and Halo were all on the same base mix, just with different additives.
The bait with an element of cheese was Halo I believe. K from memory was a meaty/spicy type bait.
T1, K and Halo were all on the same base mix, just with different additives.