Some of them are even using the Nash marketing images
I totallly agree with a lot of the comments on here that a lot of stuff sold by premium bivvy manufacturers is just sweat shop Far Eastern tat.
But here's the thing, let's say ESP for instance read this thread and decided to release a shelter that they guaranteed was 100% uk sourced and UK manufacturerd, put it was double the price of their existing shelters, how many people would pick the uk version.? Maybe they'd have to give the uk version a five year warranty to encourage sales?
But here's the thing, let's say ESP for instance read this thread and decided to release a shelter that they guaranteed was 100% uk sourced and UK manufacturerd, put it was double the price of their existing shelters, how many people would pick the uk version.? Maybe they'd have to give the uk version a five year warranty to encourage sales?
In reply to Post #32
In reality I dont think there is a big enough market of people that would pay the extra for a UK sourced and built products (metalware & rods might be the exception) ... im sure there will always be a small market though..
The likes of Cotswold is a good example. Understandably most people wont pay their prices, just because it is a UK company. It needs to be more than that. Very similar products have always been available elsewhere for fraction of the cost. But bring out something uniquely different and price becomes less of an issue. As an example I remember seeing their bag that sat over the front bar of a Carp-Porter for the first time. I thought it was a great idea and bought one immediately. Same as when i fist saw Keith's Defiant MPS Trident - Nothing else around at the time that was like it and i happily paid the price.
If any company wants to bring out a UK built bivvy, to succeed it needs to offer something different in design, its not enough to offer arguably better quality, UK badge on its own and try and charge a premium
In reality I dont think there is a big enough market of people that would pay the extra for a UK sourced and built products (metalware & rods might be the exception) ... im sure there will always be a small market though..
The likes of Cotswold is a good example. Understandably most people wont pay their prices, just because it is a UK company. It needs to be more than that. Very similar products have always been available elsewhere for fraction of the cost. But bring out something uniquely different and price becomes less of an issue. As an example I remember seeing their bag that sat over the front bar of a Carp-Porter for the first time. I thought it was a great idea and bought one immediately. Same as when i fist saw Keith's Defiant MPS Trident - Nothing else around at the time that was like it and i happily paid the price.
If any company wants to bring out a UK built bivvy, to succeed it needs to offer something different in design, its not enough to offer arguably better quality, UK badge on its own and try and charge a premium
In reply to Post #33
Im not so sure now. Times are changing with the current situation and we really shouldn't go back to such a throw away culture as before this current crisis.
I see an opportunity for man kind to change our selfish ways and stop this never ending merry go round of consumerism.
I for one would be quite happy to buy a quality product from a British manufacture as long as it would last me a good few years of wear and tear. Our problem at the moment is that we are paying over inflated prices for tat and having to replace it sooner than we like. We will get there one day for the sake of the planet. I really hope we do.
Im not so sure now. Times are changing with the current situation and we really shouldn't go back to such a throw away culture as before this current crisis.
I see an opportunity for man kind to change our selfish ways and stop this never ending merry go round of consumerism.
I for one would be quite happy to buy a quality product from a British manufacture as long as it would last me a good few years of wear and tear. Our problem at the moment is that we are paying over inflated prices for tat and having to replace it sooner than we like. We will get there one day for the sake of the planet. I really hope we do.
In reply to Post #34
Pretty much spot on there Phil – there's absolutely no reason why a British built Bivvy could be done, if who ever made produced one got back to old ways – Quality not quantity, value not cheap, longevity not time faults, pride not pure profit.................
No reason for one to be silly money either (As this Chinese stuff is) unless you wanted it to be - by going to another level in design/materials.
One of the biggest problems I could see would be lack of skills, I doubt anyone in any of the tackle companies have a miniscule clue how to mass produce a quality product anymore to high standards. Plenty of highly skilled accountants thou.
Pretty much spot on there Phil – there's absolutely no reason why a British built Bivvy could be done, if who ever made produced one got back to old ways – Quality not quantity, value not cheap, longevity not time faults, pride not pure profit.................
No reason for one to be silly money either (As this Chinese stuff is) unless you wanted it to be - by going to another level in design/materials.
One of the biggest problems I could see would be lack of skills, I doubt anyone in any of the tackle companies have a miniscule clue how to mass produce a quality product anymore to high standards. Plenty of highly skilled accountants thou.
In reply to Post #35
I agree. Build cost of a £600 tent is probably considerably less than £50. It's the tackle companies that are ripping us off.
A decent business in the Uk could definitely compete in the tent market, albeit at a lower (ie less greedy margin). Selling direct to the public, of course.
I agree. Build cost of a £600 tent is probably considerably less than £50. It's the tackle companies that are ripping us off.
A decent business in the Uk could definitely compete in the tent market, albeit at a lower (ie less greedy margin). Selling direct to the public, of course.
In reply to Post #34
Well said
Well said
In reply to Post #36
That's the problem though mate. I'm all for a UK brand but this is how it started. Custom or unique items get copied, made in the Far East for maximum profit, minimum input. All these sales company's, not manufacturers, with no factory, no overheads or wages and just ripping people off. I could understand say a 100% mark up, that's business but these are 900% and counting
What happens, a UK manufacturer comes out with a quality product and then a sales company promoting a “badge” goes to China, under cuts them by say 50% and still have a 500% profit margin, that's whats wrong.
Like I say, justice will be done when they all get bit in the arse and the Chinese are shipping direct to tackle shops or better still, the customer. Imagine that, UK distribution centre
What people REALLY need to understand is the fact that they are buying overpriced Chinese crap with a fancy badge on, heavily promoted as unique and something special in a sales pitch, or you can buy the exact same thing for a fraction of the price with no badge on, it's a no brainier for me until the market place and importation rules changed
That's the problem though mate. I'm all for a UK brand but this is how it started. Custom or unique items get copied, made in the Far East for maximum profit, minimum input. All these sales company's, not manufacturers, with no factory, no overheads or wages and just ripping people off. I could understand say a 100% mark up, that's business but these are 900% and counting
What happens, a UK manufacturer comes out with a quality product and then a sales company promoting a “badge” goes to China, under cuts them by say 50% and still have a 500% profit margin, that's whats wrong.
Like I say, justice will be done when they all get bit in the arse and the Chinese are shipping direct to tackle shops or better still, the customer. Imagine that, UK distribution centre
What people REALLY need to understand is the fact that they are buying overpriced Chinese crap with a fancy badge on, heavily promoted as unique and something special in a sales pitch, or you can buy the exact same thing for a fraction of the price with no badge on, it's a no brainier for me until the market place and importation rules changed
Nobody is ripping anyone off because no-one is forced to buy anything, there is plenty of choice and you can buy a bivvy for less than £100 if you wish There is no law against what mark up a company makes. There are many industries that make huge mark ups.
Of course there are going to be a few people sticking their hands up declaring their commitment to purchasing UK build .... but it is such a small demographic in the grand scheme of things. Outside of the angling bubble I am involved with various camping clubs, groups, pages etc and the cost of tents absolutely dwarfs a top end Tempest . Demand for UK built tents is virtually nil .... just not on people's radar.
Dont get me wrong I would love to see a UK build bivvy and something different on the market, but i would never commit to buying one unless there was a genuine advantage. People keep declaring what a great idea this and how there is an obvious market for it ............... Yet, no manufacturer or enthusiastic individual can be convinced to run with it and that speaks volumes.
Of course there are going to be a few people sticking their hands up declaring their commitment to purchasing UK build .... but it is such a small demographic in the grand scheme of things. Outside of the angling bubble I am involved with various camping clubs, groups, pages etc and the cost of tents absolutely dwarfs a top end Tempest . Demand for UK built tents is virtually nil .... just not on people's radar.
Dont get me wrong I would love to see a UK build bivvy and something different on the market, but i would never commit to buying one unless there was a genuine advantage. People keep declaring what a great idea this and how there is an obvious market for it ............... Yet, no manufacturer or enthusiastic individual can be convinced to run with it and that speaks volumes.
In reply to Post #39
Nobody is ripping anyone off because no-one is forced to buy anything
It's not about that for me. It's about the massive profit margins to the point we are now looking at £600 tents which true value is about £25 in material, labour and overhead costs!
Are you going to say it's fine when they are trying to charge us £1000 for something that true value is around £40! and then everybody else follows suit!
These sales people are also doing virtually nothing for the U.K. economy, that's another key point for me, what's your thoughts on that?
Like I say, minimum input and maximum output and once again the angler has to take it on the chin
Nobody is ripping anyone off because no-one is forced to buy anything
It's not about that for me. It's about the massive profit margins to the point we are now looking at £600 tents which true value is about £25 in material, labour and overhead costs!
Are you going to say it's fine when they are trying to charge us £1000 for something that true value is around £40! and then everybody else follows suit!
These sales people are also doing virtually nothing for the U.K. economy, that's another key point for me, what's your thoughts on that?
Like I say, minimum input and maximum output and once again the angler has to take it on the chin
In reply to Post #25
mrj Carter Thanks for putting that up 40 to 50 dollars for a tempest ridiculous what a rip off these tackle companies are
mrj Carter Thanks for putting that up 40 to 50 dollars for a tempest ridiculous what a rip off these tackle companies are
In reply to Post #40
I totally agree.
Firstly it IS a rip off.
Secondly I want as little as possible from China.
I totally agree.
Firstly it IS a rip off.
Secondly I want as little as possible from China.
In reply to Post #41
I'm now waiting for one of these numptys to do another embarrassing video trying to justify the design and cutting edge technology used in a few aluminium poles and fabric for a few free bits of tackle
I'm now waiting for one of these numptys to do another embarrassing video trying to justify the design and cutting edge technology used in a few aluminium poles and fabric for a few free bits of tackle
In reply to Post #40
Are you going to say it's fine when they are trying to charge us £1000 for something that true value is around £40! and then everybody else follows suit!
These sales people are also doing virtually nothing for the U.K. economy, that's another key point for me, what's your thoughts on that?
My thoughts are that if you don't like it, then dont pay it. That is a far more effective action than moaning about it on a forum
Are you going to say it's fine when they are trying to charge us £1000 for something that true value is around £40! and then everybody else follows suit!
These sales people are also doing virtually nothing for the U.K. economy, that's another key point for me, what's your thoughts on that?
My thoughts are that if you don't like it, then dont pay it. That is a far more effective action than moaning about it on a forum
In reply to Post #44
I thought the forum was a platform for public discussion?
What I like about it is the non biased views, more facts from users, real life, not fantasy. My thoughts are quite clear I guess. I stand by them
I thought the forum was a platform for public discussion?
What I like about it is the non biased views, more facts from users, real life, not fantasy. My thoughts are quite clear I guess. I stand by them