In reply to Post #30
I think sometimes a super sharp hook highlights these problems more. If you hit a stone on the retrieve it will wreck the point of the hook, but it's more noticeable on the sharpest hooks.
I had similar experiences with the fox hooks, nice and sharp from the pack but always knackered when retrieved. I find the atomic and Gardner hooks stay in tact better, esp trig hammers have been pretty good too.
If it's corrosion dulling the points then candle wax protects pretty well
I think sometimes a super sharp hook highlights these problems more. If you hit a stone on the retrieve it will wreck the point of the hook, but it's more noticeable on the sharpest hooks.
I had similar experiences with the fox hooks, nice and sharp from the pack but always knackered when retrieved. I find the atomic and Gardner hooks stay in tact better, esp trig hammers have been pretty good too.
If it's corrosion dulling the points then candle wax protects pretty well
I couldn't get on with the Kamakura hooks either. You only have to look at them the wrong way and the points go over. Not sure they'd stand up to anything but the very softest mouths.
Carried on using Hayward or JP, both very sharp but retain just enough strength in the point for me.
Carried on using Hayward or JP, both very sharp but retain just enough strength in the point for me.
Apologies for bumping an old thread. I'm a big fan of sharpening hooks and think they have made a difference for me, but a few weeks ago I stumbled on some kamakuras that I bought a while ago and they are by far the sharpest out the packet hooks I have seen - they are also sharper than I can achieve - so I thought maybe it was worth the switch - I went out yesterday to catch a few smaller soft mouth doubles and photographed a couple of the hooks after landing - does anyone actually fish with these? I'd love to know - I will be going back to what I know best but I wonder if hook technology will ever bring razor sharp and durability into a hook
Use these all the time on a hinge and although a 3am tinker and burred hook will test you I think it's worth the pain. Fishing a shallow silty lake and I'll always put half a folded bit of rig foam on covering the point. Just yesterday I had a mid twenty common and the hook point was still good. Very rare was like a double win that. Great hooks just kids gloves type stuff.
In reply to Post #33
I wonder if hook technology will ever bring razor sharp and durability into a hook
Not for a long, long time.
Hooks are made of spring steel and heat treated. They're treated to a sweet spot in terms of hardness, that gives them flexibility (they act like a spring). Problem is, when the wire is sharpened to a very, very fine point, the yield point of the material is easily exceeded under load. Even when treated to the sweet spot, the points will bend/go-over. Treat them to a higher hardness, and the tip of the point will just snap off under load.
So basically until a new steel is developed that has a significantly higher yield strength, we're stuck with spring steel. You'll read blurb from hook manufacturers about fancy "new" steels like chrome/vanadium, and fancy "new" treatments like cryogenic tempering, but the reality is these have been around for donkeys years in other applications and are just variations of heat treated spring steels.
Not even your advanced materials like titanium or inconel can get near to heat treated steel for the characteristics desirable in a carp hook.
The Kamakuras are 100% a one fish hook so what you see is completely normal.
I wonder if hook technology will ever bring razor sharp and durability into a hook
Not for a long, long time.
Hooks are made of spring steel and heat treated. They're treated to a sweet spot in terms of hardness, that gives them flexibility (they act like a spring). Problem is, when the wire is sharpened to a very, very fine point, the yield point of the material is easily exceeded under load. Even when treated to the sweet spot, the points will bend/go-over. Treat them to a higher hardness, and the tip of the point will just snap off under load.
So basically until a new steel is developed that has a significantly higher yield strength, we're stuck with spring steel. You'll read blurb from hook manufacturers about fancy "new" steels like chrome/vanadium, and fancy "new" treatments like cryogenic tempering, but the reality is these have been around for donkeys years in other applications and are just variations of heat treated spring steels.
Not even your advanced materials like titanium or inconel can get near to heat treated steel for the characteristics desirable in a carp hook.
The Kamakuras are 100% a one fish hook so what you see is completely normal.
In reply to Post #33
what did you use to take such good pictures, phone or camera?
what did you use to take such good pictures, phone or camera?
Pretty sure the strongest metal on earth, would still probably kick over, when its got the diameter of a hook point, especially a sharpened one.
Way i look at hooks, and leads etc, the consumable items, is how much it cost per fish, and would i pay that much per fish to catch them. Answer is always yes, or i would take up golf.
Way i look at hooks, and leads etc, the consumable items, is how much it cost per fish, and would i pay that much per fish to catch them. Answer is always yes, or i would take up golf.
In reply to Post #33
Yes I've been using the size 4 choddys for a few seasons now & what you see is the norm. Very rarely, when all the planets align, they're salvageable, but usually they're scrap after a fish. I've found that they do touch up nicely though with a fine stone, when needed. I believe they make a difference & they're worth it.
However, it isn't a hook I would choose for a runs water, purely for cost reasons.
Yes I've been using the size 4 choddys for a few seasons now & what you see is the norm. Very rarely, when all the planets align, they're salvageable, but usually they're scrap after a fish. I've found that they do touch up nicely though with a fine stone, when needed. I believe they make a difference & they're worth it.
However, it isn't a hook I would choose for a runs water, purely for cost reasons.
In reply to Post #2
I use them almost exclusively and do well on them, wide gape and not the wipe gape X which is a heavier gauge which i dont really have the need for.
With regards to 'one fish hook' at very most, lucky to get one fish tbh and any slight mishaps, miscast etc can see you needing to change the hook so a quick hook change rig needed. i use in conjunction with a traditional spinner rig albeit small korda 'd' and wafter and also pecky kombi...
I use them almost exclusively and do well on them, wide gape and not the wipe gape X which is a heavier gauge which i dont really have the need for.
With regards to 'one fish hook' at very most, lucky to get one fish tbh and any slight mishaps, miscast etc can see you needing to change the hook so a quick hook change rig needed. i use in conjunction with a traditional spinner rig albeit small korda 'd' and wafter and also pecky kombi...
In reply to Post #36
On the phone on the bank- the bit that worried me a little, was the first one, still felt sharp, as the point was in tact but turned, due to my eyes I took a picture and then enlarged it, in the original shot there doesn't look a lot wrong with it.
I always knew they were 1 fish hooks but wondered if their sharpness outweighed this - I'm now not convinced - if they are 90% on the sharpness scale I think I can get longshank twister 10s to about 60% and they need touching up occasionally and can sometimes be re cast even after a fish. At least with hand sharpened once they blunt you know about it
On the phone on the bank- the bit that worried me a little, was the first one, still felt sharp, as the point was in tact but turned, due to my eyes I took a picture and then enlarged it, in the original shot there doesn't look a lot wrong with it.
I always knew they were 1 fish hooks but wondered if their sharpness outweighed this - I'm now not convinced - if they are 90% on the sharpness scale I think I can get longshank twister 10s to about 60% and they need touching up occasionally and can sometimes be re cast even after a fish. At least with hand sharpened once they blunt you know about it
In reply to Post #40
"At least with hand sharpened once they blunt you know about it"
I've gotten into the habit of running my finger tip across all sides to feel if it's turned over or not, & obsessively stabbing the point into the soft skin on the back of my thumb..
... but yes I do agree that they are very delicate, & I can totally understand if you (or anyone else) think that it's not worth the faff.
As with pretty much everything to do with fishing - it's a matter of personal preference & doing whatever you feel works for you.
"At least with hand sharpened once they blunt you know about it"
I've gotten into the habit of running my finger tip across all sides to feel if it's turned over or not, & obsessively stabbing the point into the soft skin on the back of my thumb..
... but yes I do agree that they are very delicate, & I can totally understand if you (or anyone else) think that it's not worth the faff.
As with pretty much everything to do with fishing - it's a matter of personal preference & doing whatever you feel works for you.
In reply to Post #41
What a wonderful reply thank you - exactly what I was looking for, advocates of something that can be an absolute game changer but needs consideration and tenacity to keep going. I absolutely applaud that and gives me real food for thought - thank you.
What a wonderful reply thank you - exactly what I was looking for, advocates of something that can be an absolute game changer but needs consideration and tenacity to keep going. I absolutely applaud that and gives me real food for thought - thank you.
In reply to Post #40
I had a similar episode on my barbel session a while ago.
I took a picture of a rig for my blog page, and only when I later zoomed in I saw the point was still sharp but slightly burred over.
Hard to spot on a size 10.
I had a similar episode on my barbel session a while ago.
I took a picture of a rig for my blog page, and only when I later zoomed in I saw the point was still sharp but slightly burred over.
Hard to spot on a size 10.
I posted in this thread originally at the very beginning and I'm still using the Kamakura's without any issues 😃 although I don't use them exclusively these days as I fish more runs waters so just use hooks from Temu/Alibaba and just touch them up with the OMC hook sharpener. But when I'm fishing 2 of my main lakes where you wouldn't want to lose one, I always use the wide gape Kamakura's. Definitely one fish hooks (although still catch the odd bream and they are fine) but the fish I'm fishing for I'm more than happy to just have the one fish on the 70p hook