In reply to Post #14
As always, lots of conflicting 'opinions' being expressed in this thread regarding a bait ingredient.
Edit... Best just not to get involved
As always, lots of conflicting 'opinions' being expressed in this thread regarding a bait ingredient.
Edit... Best just not to get involved
In reply to Post #15
The anhydrous version has a solubility which is 2x the solubility of betaine HCl. That said, there are 2 potential explanation why you can only dissolve 40g.
1) As mentioned before minerals and ions in the water can reduce solubility.
2) the betaine HCl may contain some flow agent what' in most cases insoluble.
The anhydrous version has a solubility which is 2x the solubility of betaine HCl. That said, there are 2 potential explanation why you can only dissolve 40g.
1) As mentioned before minerals and ions in the water can reduce solubility.
2) the betaine HCl may contain some flow agent what' in most cases insoluble.
In reply to Post #15
It's worked for you before and there's only 3 variables that I can see, the BHCL, the water and heat, it's just a case of working through them.
The reason I suggested the water is sometimes water companies switch supplies and the mineral content can vary a lot. As a home brewer it could wreak havoc with styles & tastes, some people (and breweries) go as far as to use reverse osmosis filters to get a blank template water and then add minerals back in.
A switch to a more alkaline supply with lots of calcium ions again might not be ideal when working with acidic solutions. You can find the water info, supply & composition etc on your water suppliers website though it may be months old a may not reflect a switch of supply.
If you do go down the de ionised route you could normally find it in motor factors, Halfords etc, but it's been a long time since I bought any so maybe not.
It's worked for you before and there's only 3 variables that I can see, the BHCL, the water and heat, it's just a case of working through them.
The reason I suggested the water is sometimes water companies switch supplies and the mineral content can vary a lot. As a home brewer it could wreak havoc with styles & tastes, some people (and breweries) go as far as to use reverse osmosis filters to get a blank template water and then add minerals back in.
A switch to a more alkaline supply with lots of calcium ions again might not be ideal when working with acidic solutions. You can find the water info, supply & composition etc on your water suppliers website though it may be months old a may not reflect a switch of supply.
If you do go down the de ionised route you could normally find it in motor factors, Halfords etc, but it's been a long time since I bought any so maybe not.
In reply to Post #15
Don't know if this is of any use to you but trawling through my notes I found these -
Dave Moore
"I m a great believer in using Betaine HCL not because of its attraction qualities, but as an aid to the digestive process. The hydrochloric acid portion of this product helps breakdown proteins and aids trypsin digestion. It is also very water soluble so it can be used comfortably at moderate levels. In fish meal based baits I will use this product at this time of the year (winter) up to a level of 20g per 500g of dry mix. In any bait that has a high milk protein content I will reduce that by about 25%. This is mainly due to the bait texture; milk protein baits have a tendency to form a tighter structure and absorb water at a lower rate.
Ian Moore
Ian Moore (CCMoore) also recommends "We recommend using Betaine at 2%+ as used in the aquaculture industry whereas many companies suggest 0.2-0.5% inclusion which is really not worth using
Don't know if this is of any use to you but trawling through my notes I found these -
Dave Moore
"I m a great believer in using Betaine HCL not because of its attraction qualities, but as an aid to the digestive process. The hydrochloric acid portion of this product helps breakdown proteins and aids trypsin digestion. It is also very water soluble so it can be used comfortably at moderate levels. In fish meal based baits I will use this product at this time of the year (winter) up to a level of 20g per 500g of dry mix. In any bait that has a high milk protein content I will reduce that by about 25%. This is mainly due to the bait texture; milk protein baits have a tendency to form a tighter structure and absorb water at a lower rate.
Ian Moore
Ian Moore (CCMoore) also recommends "We recommend using Betaine at 2%+ as used in the aquaculture industry whereas many companies suggest 0.2-0.5% inclusion which is really not worth using
In reply to Post #19
Don't know if this is of any use to you but trawling through my notes I found these -
thank you
Don't know if this is of any use to you but trawling through my notes I found these -
thank you
In reply to Post #19
Has anyone gone that high with betaine?
I saw Pete B also mention using it at high levels in the latest BCSG book
Has anyone gone that high with betaine?
I saw Pete B also mention using it at high levels in the latest BCSG book
In reply to Post #9
There were an excellent series of articles in Carpworld years ago by Mark McKenna and I remember him saying that carp don't have any receptors capable of detecting betaine, although it could have some benefit, digestion wise, in feedbaits.
There were an excellent series of articles in Carpworld years ago by Mark McKenna and I remember him saying that carp don't have any receptors capable of detecting betaine, although it could have some benefit, digestion wise, in feedbaits.
In reply to Post #22
There were an excellent series of articles in Carpworld years ago by Mark McKenna and I remember him saying that carp don't have any receptors capable of detecting betaine, although it could have some benefit, digestion wise, in feedbaits.
'BAIT it's a four letter word'
I downloaded the series. back in 2009
it is the first Q&A paragraph, in Part 6 with the bold heading-
(if this statement is a bit too bold for some of you) perhaps one or two of you can provide some conclusive proof that betaine hydrochloride really does attract cyprinus carpio.
If you can I'll gladly eat my shorts,
There were an excellent series of articles in Carpworld years ago by Mark McKenna and I remember him saying that carp don't have any receptors capable of detecting betaine, although it could have some benefit, digestion wise, in feedbaits.
'BAIT it's a four letter word'
I downloaded the series. back in 2009
it is the first Q&A paragraph, in Part 6 with the bold heading-
(if this statement is a bit too bold for some of you) perhaps one or two of you can provide some conclusive proof that betaine hydrochloride really does attract cyprinus carpio.
If you can I'll gladly eat my shorts,
In reply to Post #22
I do remember that too. Backs up my tank testing.
Also, if feeding pellets with boilies then the carp are getting their betaine shot so no reason it can't still enhance digestion and absorption.
Similar to the way the nutritional recognition theory falls down as carp will be grazing from various parts of the lake buffet table so there isnt clear deficiency given that there is such variety on offer.
I do remember that too. Backs up my tank testing.
Also, if feeding pellets with boilies then the carp are getting their betaine shot so no reason it can't still enhance digestion and absorption.
Similar to the way the nutritional recognition theory falls down as carp will be grazing from various parts of the lake buffet table so there isnt clear deficiency given that there is such variety on offer.
In reply to Post #23
Deep scientific stuff here -
https://medcraveonline.com/JAMB/effect-of-betaine-hydrochloride-as-feed-attractant-on-growth-survival-and-feed-utilization-of-common-carp-cyprinus-carpio.html
Deep scientific stuff here -
https://medcraveonline.com/JAMB/effect-of-betaine-hydrochloride-as-feed-attractant-on-growth-survival-and-feed-utilization-of-common-carp-cyprinus-carpio.html
In reply to Post #23
Just found this in the bedroom next to the mucky mags
Just found this in the bedroom next to the mucky mags
In reply to Post #25
I'll save that one, all of my technical stuff is pre-2013
I'll save that one, all of my technical stuff is pre-2013
In reply to Post #26
In reply to Post #26
Wish I'd of kept my CWs. Sold 1-10 in a binder but the rest went to the tip, boxes of them
The Mrs once again "if your not going to read them, bin them, we need the room"
Edit, to be fair, in the end it was nearly all adverts though.
Wish I'd of kept my CWs. Sold 1-10 in a binder but the rest went to the tip, boxes of them
The Mrs once again "if your not going to read them, bin them, we need the room"
Edit, to be fair, in the end it was nearly all adverts though.
In reply to Post #29
Must have been 22-23 years since I last bought CW, me and a mate met up at AI pits ( half way between Leeds and Northampton). Think the main article was an esssential baits piece
I got there about half an hour before he did and he clocked it on the front seat..
New carp world? Can I have a gander when you're done.
You can have it now if you can find anything amongdt the adverts
Would have been better off buying a couple of paperbacks from the other side of the stand inTesco
Must have been 22-23 years since I last bought CW, me and a mate met up at AI pits ( half way between Leeds and Northampton). Think the main article was an esssential baits piece
I got there about half an hour before he did and he clocked it on the front seat..
New carp world? Can I have a gander when you're done.
You can have it now if you can find anything amongdt the adverts
Would have been better off buying a couple of paperbacks from the other side of the stand inTesco