In reply to Post #15
Why should a 15lb line be 0.35mm, 18lb 0.38mm, and 20lb 0.40mm ?
Who told you that ?
Why should a 15lb line be 0.35mm, 18lb 0.38mm, and 20lb 0.40mm ?
Who told you that ?
In reply to Post #16
I was thinking that...
I was thinking that...
In reply to Post #16
Because that's a rough guides for mono filament lines as they are all a continuous single filament of nylon.
Because that's a rough guides for mono filament lines as they are all a continuous single filament of nylon.
In reply to Post #18
Thats quite obvious though Goose , there are no sizes set in stone though
Thats quite obvious though Goose , there are no sizes set in stone though
In reply to Post #1
Big Game 15LB
Big Game 15LB
In reply to Post #16
In reply to Post #15
Why should a 15lb line be 0.35mm, 18lb 0.38mm, and 20lb 0.40mm ?
Who told you that ?
It was to do with specified diameters and breaking strains for tournament casting, and I think IGFA line ratings.
A specific diameter line was matched with a specific shockleader in casting tourneys, and IGFA records were that a line rating had to be consistent throughout, with no added leader for any record to be considered.
Anglers have been 'convinced' that a 15lb line that breaks at 20lb is a 'better' line than one that breaks at 15lb, yet if the one that breaks at 20lb is a 0.40mm line, then the angler is not getting the whole story.
Now a 0.35mm line that breaks at 20lb is impressive.
A thicker line In theory should also have better abrasion resistance, (but doesn't always) as some lines do seem more resistant to damage, they may be more 'slippery' over snags and not get abraded as a line that 'digs in', or a more supple line may not get damaged as easily as a stiffer line in the same diameter.
Anglers themselves also have lines that work for them, yet other lines don't. I got on with Daiwa Sensor, others hated it. I found Berkeley Big Game, Ultima lines and Nash Bullet absolutely awful horrible stuff, too much twist, unexplained breakages.
Other lines I got on with for years Platil, Sylcast, Maxima, hardly heard of now.
The line I do still use, in and around weed is Gardner Pro, either light or dark in 15lb.
In reply to Post #15
Why should a 15lb line be 0.35mm, 18lb 0.38mm, and 20lb 0.40mm ?
Who told you that ?
It was to do with specified diameters and breaking strains for tournament casting, and I think IGFA line ratings.
A specific diameter line was matched with a specific shockleader in casting tourneys, and IGFA records were that a line rating had to be consistent throughout, with no added leader for any record to be considered.
Anglers have been 'convinced' that a 15lb line that breaks at 20lb is a 'better' line than one that breaks at 15lb, yet if the one that breaks at 20lb is a 0.40mm line, then the angler is not getting the whole story.
Now a 0.35mm line that breaks at 20lb is impressive.
A thicker line In theory should also have better abrasion resistance, (but doesn't always) as some lines do seem more resistant to damage, they may be more 'slippery' over snags and not get abraded as a line that 'digs in', or a more supple line may not get damaged as easily as a stiffer line in the same diameter.
Anglers themselves also have lines that work for them, yet other lines don't. I got on with Daiwa Sensor, others hated it. I found Berkeley Big Game, Ultima lines and Nash Bullet absolutely awful horrible stuff, too much twist, unexplained breakages.
Other lines I got on with for years Platil, Sylcast, Maxima, hardly heard of now.
The line I do still use, in and around weed is Gardner Pro, either light or dark in 15lb.
In reply to Post #21
Nobody in this thread said that GR60 in 15lb actually breaks at 15lb did they? The original poster simply asked for suggestions of the best main line for fishing in weed. I wish I would have said "GR60 in 0.39 mm diameter" now. Christ on a bike!
Everybody and their mother knows that the strength of a line is primarily a function of the diameter. I'd imagine the chemical construction also plays a part because the strength of the chemical bonds between the atoms must play some role, has anybody bothered to test the chemical bonds of GR60 in 15... sorry 0.39 mm before? Also, any differences in suppleness of lines are probably, to all practical purposes anyway, completely diminished when put under tension whilst playing a fish.
Nobody in this thread said that GR60 in 15lb actually breaks at 15lb did they? The original poster simply asked for suggestions of the best main line for fishing in weed. I wish I would have said "GR60 in 0.39 mm diameter" now. Christ on a bike!
Everybody and their mother knows that the strength of a line is primarily a function of the diameter. I'd imagine the chemical construction also plays a part because the strength of the chemical bonds between the atoms must play some role, has anybody bothered to test the chemical bonds of GR60 in 15... sorry 0.39 mm before? Also, any differences in suppleness of lines are probably, to all practical purposes anyway, completely diminished when put under tension whilst playing a fish.
In reply to Post #20
I used to use that, so long ago I can't remember why I stopped using it. There was a reason. Also technology has come on so far since then there must be better lines out there now.
I used to use that, so long ago I can't remember why I stopped using it. There was a reason. Also technology has come on so far since then there must be better lines out there now.
In reply to Post #21
IGFA as in International Game Fish Organisation ?
Carp fishing and carp fishing line has zero relevance to IGFA so lines can be whatever thickness and rating the manufacturers want to put on the label , I always look at diameter first , I think you'll find most anglers will , rating is only relevant to the venues rule book in my eyes
IGFA as in International Game Fish Organisation ?
Carp fishing and carp fishing line has zero relevance to IGFA so lines can be whatever thickness and rating the manufacturers want to put on the label , I always look at diameter first , I think you'll find most anglers will , rating is only relevant to the venues rule book in my eyes
I've been using berkley.. I don't know which one but its been the best mono I've ever used and you get miles of it for the money
Have been seriously impressed with the new Thinking Anglers OGX....was out in France recently and had some trouble with a fish getting into some savage thorny tree root snags, landed the fish when it eventually came out but expected the line to be shredded....it was barely marked.
In reply to Post #26
Have been seriously impressed with the new Thinking Anglers OGX....was out in France recently and had some trouble with a fish getting into some savage thorny tree root snags, landed the fish when it eventually came out but expected the line to be shredded....it was barely marked.
That is a serious line. The 0.35mm was breaking in the line tests at around 18lb. Sadly the only line that came close to that is the discontinued Shimano Catana that broke at 20lb.
In reply to Post #21
IGFA as in International Game Fish Organisation ?
Carp fishing and carp fishing line has zero relevance to IGFA so lines can be whatever thickness and rating the manufacturers want to put on the label , I always look at diameter first , I think you'll find most anglers will , rating is only relevant to the venues rule book in my eyes
From working in Tackle shops I can pretty much guarantee That most anglers DON'T look at line diameter, they ask for a breaking strain, carp anglers especially so. It is pole anglers who might ask for a diameter.
I recall there was a thing about consumer standards or Line Charter regarding breaking strains of lines, with breaking strains being so overrated leading to a spate of prosecutions. So a 15lb line should be around 15lb, NOT 20lb. Also you are incorrect about IGFA as their line tests are actually tested close to a fishing situation.
Also technology has come on so far since then there must be better lines out there now.
Sadly fishing lines are still pretty much the same. I refer to this above, 0.35mm is still around 15lb. The only thing that has changed is the line stretch or elasticity
Henry Gilbey said this back in 2016 I think it was:
Culture - In the UK historically people bought line by breaking strain, and only in more recent times have anglers started to consider diameter in a more important way. If you are going to buy a 15lb line then you want a strong one, and you may remember an old brand called Sylcast that was famous for being exceptionally strong. In reality it wasn't, it was just thicker and so stronger than stated. Europeans by contrast have looked at diameters when buying for a lot longer than we have. So again as a way of getting ahead of the competition it makes sense to have your 0.35mm stronger than the rest as nylon is nylon and there is not a great deal you can do except cheat and state a higher breaking strain than the reality. Interestingly the US has always sold line by "lb test" ratings. The rationale being that a 15lb Test will always break at a minimum of 15lb with a knot. Like the UK this encourages companies to put heavier line on the spool to make their "15lb test" stronger than the rest. There is some IGFA rated line where it cannot break at more than 15lb (although interestingly the IGFA strength testing standard is much closer to a fishing scenario than the industry standard).”
“So in answer to your question "Are the ratings on a spool of line essentially a load of rubbish?" then the answer is yes. If the line is from a EFTTA Line Charter member than you can be sure the diameter and breaking strain is correct in the laboratory, but a bit overstated for real fishing scenarios. If it is not Line Charter certified then it could be greatly overstated (Poland and Italy being the worse offenders) or greatly understated (probably a UK brand).”
Have been seriously impressed with the new Thinking Anglers OGX....was out in France recently and had some trouble with a fish getting into some savage thorny tree root snags, landed the fish when it eventually came out but expected the line to be shredded....it was barely marked.
That is a serious line. The 0.35mm was breaking in the line tests at around 18lb. Sadly the only line that came close to that is the discontinued Shimano Catana that broke at 20lb.
In reply to Post #21
IGFA as in International Game Fish Organisation ?
Carp fishing and carp fishing line has zero relevance to IGFA so lines can be whatever thickness and rating the manufacturers want to put on the label , I always look at diameter first , I think you'll find most anglers will , rating is only relevant to the venues rule book in my eyes
From working in Tackle shops I can pretty much guarantee That most anglers DON'T look at line diameter, they ask for a breaking strain, carp anglers especially so. It is pole anglers who might ask for a diameter.
I recall there was a thing about consumer standards or Line Charter regarding breaking strains of lines, with breaking strains being so overrated leading to a spate of prosecutions. So a 15lb line should be around 15lb, NOT 20lb. Also you are incorrect about IGFA as their line tests are actually tested close to a fishing situation.
Also technology has come on so far since then there must be better lines out there now.
Sadly fishing lines are still pretty much the same. I refer to this above, 0.35mm is still around 15lb. The only thing that has changed is the line stretch or elasticity
Henry Gilbey said this back in 2016 I think it was:
Culture - In the UK historically people bought line by breaking strain, and only in more recent times have anglers started to consider diameter in a more important way. If you are going to buy a 15lb line then you want a strong one, and you may remember an old brand called Sylcast that was famous for being exceptionally strong. In reality it wasn't, it was just thicker and so stronger than stated. Europeans by contrast have looked at diameters when buying for a lot longer than we have. So again as a way of getting ahead of the competition it makes sense to have your 0.35mm stronger than the rest as nylon is nylon and there is not a great deal you can do except cheat and state a higher breaking strain than the reality. Interestingly the US has always sold line by "lb test" ratings. The rationale being that a 15lb Test will always break at a minimum of 15lb with a knot. Like the UK this encourages companies to put heavier line on the spool to make their "15lb test" stronger than the rest. There is some IGFA rated line where it cannot break at more than 15lb (although interestingly the IGFA strength testing standard is much closer to a fishing scenario than the industry standard).”
“So in answer to your question "Are the ratings on a spool of line essentially a load of rubbish?" then the answer is yes. If the line is from a EFTTA Line Charter member than you can be sure the diameter and breaking strain is correct in the laboratory, but a bit overstated for real fishing scenarios. If it is not Line Charter certified then it could be greatly overstated (Poland and Italy being the worse offenders) or greatly understated (probably a UK brand).”
In reply to Post #27
That is a serious line. The 0.35mm was breaking in the line tests at around 18lb. Sadly the only line that came close to that is the discontinued Shimano Catana that broke at 20lb.
there are a few lines at 0.35 that break at 18lb plus according to tackle box line test.
That is a serious line. The 0.35mm was breaking in the line tests at around 18lb. Sadly the only line that came close to that is the discontinued Shimano Catana that broke at 20lb.
there are a few lines at 0.35 that break at 18lb plus according to tackle box line test.
In reply to Post #22
Everybody and their mother knows that the strength of a line is primarily a function of the diameter. I'd imagine the chemical construction also plays a part because the strength of the chemical bonds between the atoms must play some role, has anybody bothered to test the chemical bonds of GR60 in 15... sorry 0.39 mm before? Also, any differences in suppleness of lines are probably, to all practical purposes anyway, completely diminished when put under tension whilst playing a fish.
If you are going to try to be smart, at least try to be correct.
That is just it, it isn't, or doesn't have to be diameter equals strength.
I go back to Shimano Catana, in 0.35mm, 15lb line that was regularly breaking around 20lb. Others in the same 0.35mm diameter as Goose has said breaking between 18-20lb. It is strange how some Korda lines rated at 15lb, 0.35mm stand up extremely well in breaking strain, yet the same 18lb line is cacke.
The suppleness of some lines is screwed over by something people ignore, line stretch. Mono stretches between 15 and 30% under tension, and different brands stretch different amounts, some recover to some or most of the original, others will stretch and stay stretched (minimal elasticity) then next cast might break. It could be that a line that does not stretch much retains more strength. A very supple line might stretch more, put it under tension, and you put your knot at risk of giving way.
Line stretch could possibly affect bite indication. A line that can stretch still after putting indicator on could give reduced bite indication. A stretched line with indicator on could give improved indication, but you could be close to breaking point before even tightening into the fish. That stretched line touching a tough weed stem could break, yet a low stretch line could handle it.
Everybody and their mother knows that the strength of a line is primarily a function of the diameter. I'd imagine the chemical construction also plays a part because the strength of the chemical bonds between the atoms must play some role, has anybody bothered to test the chemical bonds of GR60 in 15... sorry 0.39 mm before? Also, any differences in suppleness of lines are probably, to all practical purposes anyway, completely diminished when put under tension whilst playing a fish.
If you are going to try to be smart, at least try to be correct.
That is just it, it isn't, or doesn't have to be diameter equals strength.
I go back to Shimano Catana, in 0.35mm, 15lb line that was regularly breaking around 20lb. Others in the same 0.35mm diameter as Goose has said breaking between 18-20lb. It is strange how some Korda lines rated at 15lb, 0.35mm stand up extremely well in breaking strain, yet the same 18lb line is cacke.
The suppleness of some lines is screwed over by something people ignore, line stretch. Mono stretches between 15 and 30% under tension, and different brands stretch different amounts, some recover to some or most of the original, others will stretch and stay stretched (minimal elasticity) then next cast might break. It could be that a line that does not stretch much retains more strength. A very supple line might stretch more, put it under tension, and you put your knot at risk of giving way.
Line stretch could possibly affect bite indication. A line that can stretch still after putting indicator on could give reduced bite indication. A stretched line with indicator on could give improved indication, but you could be close to breaking point before even tightening into the fish. That stretched line touching a tough weed stem could break, yet a low stretch line could handle it.
In reply to Post #29
One of the stages in the manufacturing process is annealing and I believe this can be use to give the line different properties such as suppleness, stretch etc. Not sure if this is true but I feel some lines have like an external case hardening making them abrasion resistant but wirey and less supple, then again some have an external coating. Twenty plus years ago I visited the Bayer factory in Germany through my work as a service engineer and remember the manager telling me that at that time there were only three factory's in the world producing mono filament fishing line, Bayer as said in Germany, Berkley in the USA and I think it was yozuri in Japan but all produced line for tackle companies that put their name on it.
One of the stages in the manufacturing process is annealing and I believe this can be use to give the line different properties such as suppleness, stretch etc. Not sure if this is true but I feel some lines have like an external case hardening making them abrasion resistant but wirey and less supple, then again some have an external coating. Twenty plus years ago I visited the Bayer factory in Germany through my work as a service engineer and remember the manager telling me that at that time there were only three factory's in the world producing mono filament fishing line, Bayer as said in Germany, Berkley in the USA and I think it was yozuri in Japan but all produced line for tackle companies that put their name on it.