In reply to Post #14
I have seen carp avoid an area where to fish you are high up on the dam wall, with lines staying high in the water when an angler is present.
Fish the lower banks where rod tips can be sunk, and lines are lower in the water, the fish do not seem as wary.
The carp on the lake I fish go through stages of totally avoiding anglers bait, relying on natural food.
Some Carp will avoid the area you cast into for days, the splash of a cast getting them to leave until the angler has gone.
I have seen carp avoid an area where to fish you are high up on the dam wall, with lines staying high in the water when an angler is present.
Fish the lower banks where rod tips can be sunk, and lines are lower in the water, the fish do not seem as wary.
The carp on the lake I fish go through stages of totally avoiding anglers bait, relying on natural food.
Some Carp will avoid the area you cast into for days, the splash of a cast getting them to leave until the angler has gone.
When I was doing the predation collation for the PAG,I mentioned to Tim,that I found that bitten survivors incredibly easy to catch and recapture I have no idea why, this included a very large ghost I found half alive ,on the bank ,I remember slipping her back ,and recaught her several times after ,over the years ,even though she'd been bitten on at least three times,eventually losing weight and dying albeit a few years later,..basically that fish although regenerated in the tail ,suffered so badly from the 'shock ' of attacks ,also this lake is private,no other anglers at all..
This lake is fully fenced ,double meshed,3x solar trickle chargers,its now rock hard to fish,..
I'm now fishing an unfenced lake ,known to me and fished now well over 35 yrs,all the fish that remain are survivors,many have obvious regeneration on their bodies ,fins etc,however they survive on the natural food in this lake,interesting as its constantly fed by a stream that is carrying slurry there are no other anglers either I've been there today had seven doubles ,all lovely growing fish ,cept for the regeneration that most anglers would dismiss, as another form of damage..
This lake is very vulnerable to being attacked,but they seem to be growing well,and the last couple of years have spawned and some new littluns coming through..
However,I smelt spraint earlier on ,couldn't locate it ,but was strong..
The most important thing I learnt is when fish get bitten ,,and survive they'll be your predation indication ,I have seen this a lot..
Hope this enhances the thread a bit
As an edit, another thing I have noticed is carp follow other hooked carp until the netting process,so really I believe they know what's going on in their environment more than we realise,and predation,definitely affects them in many ways,so it's not a black or white observation..its very interesting..
This lake is fully fenced ,double meshed,3x solar trickle chargers,its now rock hard to fish,..
I'm now fishing an unfenced lake ,known to me and fished now well over 35 yrs,all the fish that remain are survivors,many have obvious regeneration on their bodies ,fins etc,however they survive on the natural food in this lake,interesting as its constantly fed by a stream that is carrying slurry there are no other anglers either I've been there today had seven doubles ,all lovely growing fish ,cept for the regeneration that most anglers would dismiss, as another form of damage..
This lake is very vulnerable to being attacked,but they seem to be growing well,and the last couple of years have spawned and some new littluns coming through..
However,I smelt spraint earlier on ,couldn't locate it ,but was strong..
The most important thing I learnt is when fish get bitten ,,and survive they'll be your predation indication ,I have seen this a lot..
Hope this enhances the thread a bit
As an edit, another thing I have noticed is carp follow other hooked carp until the netting process,so really I believe they know what's going on in their environment more than we realise,and predation,definitely affects them in many ways,so it's not a black or white observation..its very interesting..
In reply to Post #12
Tell that to the carp that fed on my mates spot and got hooked an hour after 3 otters were hunting the lake!!
In reply to post #11 - do you think what you might be seeing in the short term is just annual migration around the lake? In large waters carp do migrate around.
In general I think that sometimes we don't give them enough credit. There is too many instances of fish showing learnt behaviours to say they are simplistic creatures. Korda showed a fine example with lumpy on welly sitting on the lead and feeding in a circle. Longer rig and wallop hooked straight away. Nutsy mirror flanking and eating bait that was suspended... there's plenty more.
Carp clearly exhibit learnt behaviours, which means they have to have some sort of ability to make decisions based on the learnt behaviours and process whatever it is they are seeing/hearing/smelling/tasting/feeling.
I also believe there is no “rule book” as everywhere I go the anglers are saying “they don't play by the rule book here”...if that's happening 9/10 waters you fish, is it just that there isn't a rule book??
Tell that to the carp that fed on my mates spot and got hooked an hour after 3 otters were hunting the lake!!
In reply to post #11 - do you think what you might be seeing in the short term is just annual migration around the lake? In large waters carp do migrate around.
In general I think that sometimes we don't give them enough credit. There is too many instances of fish showing learnt behaviours to say they are simplistic creatures. Korda showed a fine example with lumpy on welly sitting on the lead and feeding in a circle. Longer rig and wallop hooked straight away. Nutsy mirror flanking and eating bait that was suspended... there's plenty more.
Carp clearly exhibit learnt behaviours, which means they have to have some sort of ability to make decisions based on the learnt behaviours and process whatever it is they are seeing/hearing/smelling/tasting/feeling.
I also believe there is no “rule book” as everywhere I go the anglers are saying “they don't play by the rule book here”...if that's happening 9/10 waters you fish, is it just that there isn't a rule book??
In reply to Post #16
Is the place you fish small Nick? Just wondering as I've always found the smaller places a real headache and can be super twitchy.
Is the place you fish small Nick? Just wondering as I've always found the smaller places a real headache and can be super twitchy.
In reply to Post #19
Is the place you fish small Nick? Just wondering as I've always found the smaller places a real headache and can be super twitchy.
No Mate, 45 acres.
The dam wall section I reckon is about 2 acres of the whole and still connected to and part of the main lake.
Brackens on Nazeing Meads they could be very twitchy, but I found that was down to pressure. More than 4 anglers on the 2acre pool and they would go into the corners, where pretty much Pig Pen, Car Corner and possibly Snags corner would give you a chance of fish, but you had to be quiet. They would stop taking in the main pool.
Something I found out when it was packed, and I was in Pig Pen was being first to get rods recast and you could get a chance. The later recasts from other anglers would move the fish away from their swim.
Is the place you fish small Nick? Just wondering as I've always found the smaller places a real headache and can be super twitchy.
No Mate, 45 acres.
The dam wall section I reckon is about 2 acres of the whole and still connected to and part of the main lake.
Brackens on Nazeing Meads they could be very twitchy, but I found that was down to pressure. More than 4 anglers on the 2acre pool and they would go into the corners, where pretty much Pig Pen, Car Corner and possibly Snags corner would give you a chance of fish, but you had to be quiet. They would stop taking in the main pool.
Something I found out when it was packed, and I was in Pig Pen was being first to get rods recast and you could get a chance. The later recasts from other anglers would move the fish away from their swim.
In reply to Post #1
Did anyone see the program where a woman fed some gold fish in a large glass tank?after a while the fish would sit at the end where shed fed them ,obviously they recognised her as someone who fed them.they then got the same woman to go to the opposite end of the tank and sit there whilst they put a near identical woman at the other end ,both woman looked the same with the same clothes on but the gold fish could recognise the original woman who fed them and go to that end of the tank.and would always sit at the end she was sat at.The goldfish recognised geometric patterns in the woman's face so could always identify her.Makes you think what our carp can do .
Did anyone see the program where a woman fed some gold fish in a large glass tank?after a while the fish would sit at the end where shed fed them ,obviously they recognised her as someone who fed them.they then got the same woman to go to the opposite end of the tank and sit there whilst they put a near identical woman at the other end ,both woman looked the same with the same clothes on but the gold fish could recognise the original woman who fed them and go to that end of the tank.and would always sit at the end she was sat at.The goldfish recognised geometric patterns in the woman's face so could always identify her.Makes you think what our carp can do .
In reply to Post #21
That's amazing ..
Have you ever heard of or read about Otto Overbecks experimentation with carps sensorial capacity,he did things like ringing a bell above and below water,using electric currents to determine sensitivity, lots of stuff...the original innovator of carp behaviour is Mr Overbeck..
That's amazing ..
Have you ever heard of or read about Otto Overbecks experimentation with carps sensorial capacity,he did things like ringing a bell above and below water,using electric currents to determine sensitivity, lots of stuff...the original innovator of carp behaviour is Mr Overbeck..
In reply to Post #16
How do the fish know when the angler has gone?
How do the fish know when the angler has gone?
In reply to Post #20
Brackens has to have one of the he most insane topographys I've ever seen. Did you ever see the pics when it was drained down, man, that was a mind blower ,😱
Brackens has to have one of the he most insane topographys I've ever seen. Did you ever see the pics when it was drained down, man, that was a mind blower ,😱
In reply to Post #23
no drunken antics
remember
no drunken antics
remember
In reply to Post #1
Hi All,
"I think that we give the carp way too much credit"
How else do you think modern day carpers "big" themselves up on Facebook? Maybe a bit of SAS undergrowth stuff, pooing in a pizza box or even the 40lb stockie that's not been out for 4 years.
They get "credit" because the sport has become little more than a money making circus side show
Best
Jon
Hi All,
"I think that we give the carp way too much credit"
How else do you think modern day carpers "big" themselves up on Facebook? Maybe a bit of SAS undergrowth stuff, pooing in a pizza box or even the 40lb stockie that's not been out for 4 years.
They get "credit" because the sport has become little more than a money making circus side show
Best
Jon
In reply to Post #21
That is so fascinating. Never heard of this experiment before.
That is so fascinating. Never heard of this experiment before.
In reply to Post #25
I was in someone else's swim, scared them up the other end. Of the lake next door
I was in someone else's swim, scared them up the other end. Of the lake next door
In reply to Post #23
In reply to Post #20
Brackens has to have one of the he most insane topographys I've ever seen. Did you ever see the pics when it was drained down, man, that was a mind blower 2941
Yes Mate,
I had them on dvd. Like you say totally mad.
Someone standing at the base of a gravel bar in the undercut and the bar towering metres above them. That was the bar in front on Ants and Bridge.
One of my favourite swims was s.ithouse, the rough ground in front gave me a lot of fish, as did the tree to the left and bar in front of Suicide.
S.ithouse seemed to be ignored by a lot of anglers and didn't need a long chuck.
How do the fish know when the angler has gone?
Lines reeled in, no more casting.
Bit like the reeling in to give the swim a break, only permanently by that angler
In reply to Post #20
Brackens has to have one of the he most insane topographys I've ever seen. Did you ever see the pics when it was drained down, man, that was a mind blower 2941
Yes Mate,
I had them on dvd. Like you say totally mad.
Someone standing at the base of a gravel bar in the undercut and the bar towering metres above them. That was the bar in front on Ants and Bridge.
One of my favourite swims was s.ithouse, the rough ground in front gave me a lot of fish, as did the tree to the left and bar in front of Suicide.
S.ithouse seemed to be ignored by a lot of anglers and didn't need a long chuck.
How do the fish know when the angler has gone?
Lines reeled in, no more casting.
Bit like the reeling in to give the swim a break, only permanently by that angler
In reply to Post #28
that was some evening/early morning
that was some evening/early morning