In reply to Post #13
Bless them. If enough people was willing to pay more for bait there would probably be more interesting products on the market. Seems there is little pioneering going on, most baitmakers are just trying to copy someone else's successful recipes.
Bless them. If enough people was willing to pay more for bait there would probably be more interesting products on the market. Seems there is little pioneering going on, most baitmakers are just trying to copy someone else's successful recipes.
In reply to Post #16
If you drive down price you drive down quality. It's an argument I know I can never win on the forum. However as I have stated before there are growing numbers of anglers who will pay more for better bait. They generally buy a little less and apply it with a little more thought. The results always come from a good bait. If SPA baits are true to their word and use the real deal ingredients the Facebook pages should be full of nice fish. Cos that is ultimately your indicator
If you drive down price you drive down quality. It's an argument I know I can never win on the forum. However as I have stated before there are growing numbers of anglers who will pay more for better bait. They generally buy a little less and apply it with a little more thought. The results always come from a good bait. If SPA baits are true to their word and use the real deal ingredients the Facebook pages should be full of nice fish. Cos that is ultimately your indicator
In reply to Post #16
If enough people was willing to pay more for bait there would probably be more interesting products on the market.
Maybe.... but IMHO upwards of £8 a kilo is brave.
Bait is like fashion, round and round in marketing circles, depending on price of X product used.
Companies may jump on the band wagon, some won't. Cannot compete with big buying power.
For a lot of people, especially in the current climate, whatever peoples budget of X spent on any bait needs a fair return, if fished with well - granted.
Results on their lake/s by someone else on some other bait, much more expensive, would take some convincing TO SWITCH.
Some people just won't pay over £ x per kilo of bait, regardless. So it made for that market end price.
Is it time to change the tide in peoples mind set, quality over quantity. Many have tried to.
Nutrabaits had Hi-Nu-Val that succumb to 'cheaper' great baits like their BFM & Trigga.
Nash that tried the market with the Key, went back to Scopex Squid and varients of 50/50 high attract baits.
Master Geoff at ABS brought out Hydra K, But loads still being caught on many of his cheaper baits, Maple Nut Cream, Rock Lobster.
Premier still having them on fish base, spiced fish base, Aminos.
I personally think that only the seasoned home bait maker/roller will understand what Viking and Keeperboy, and even the likes of John Baker are saying.
If enough people was willing to pay more for bait there would probably be more interesting products on the market.
Maybe.... but IMHO upwards of £8 a kilo is brave.
Bait is like fashion, round and round in marketing circles, depending on price of X product used.
Companies may jump on the band wagon, some won't. Cannot compete with big buying power.
For a lot of people, especially in the current climate, whatever peoples budget of X spent on any bait needs a fair return, if fished with well - granted.
Results on their lake/s by someone else on some other bait, much more expensive, would take some convincing TO SWITCH.
Some people just won't pay over £ x per kilo of bait, regardless. So it made for that market end price.
Is it time to change the tide in peoples mind set, quality over quantity. Many have tried to.
Nutrabaits had Hi-Nu-Val that succumb to 'cheaper' great baits like their BFM & Trigga.
Nash that tried the market with the Key, went back to Scopex Squid and varients of 50/50 high attract baits.
Master Geoff at ABS brought out Hydra K, But loads still being caught on many of his cheaper baits, Maple Nut Cream, Rock Lobster.
Premier still having them on fish base, spiced fish base, Aminos.
I personally think that only the seasoned home bait maker/roller will understand what Viking and Keeperboy, and even the likes of John Baker are saying.
In reply to Post #18
You have about hit the nail on the head there.
You have about hit the nail on the head there.
In reply to Post #18
You are right, the attempts to sell more expensive bats seem to have failed. This probably make others less interested in investing in research and that is part of the reason not much new happens.
I guess it also have something to do with the general bait knowledge among anglers seem to be a thing of the past.
Rod Hutchinson wrote in 1988 that the concept of boiled dough balls was somehow outdated, still people follow basically the same recipes with small improvements.
You are right, the attempts to sell more expensive bats seem to have failed. This probably make others less interested in investing in research and that is part of the reason not much new happens.
I guess it also have something to do with the general bait knowledge among anglers seem to be a thing of the past.
Rod Hutchinson wrote in 1988 that the concept of boiled dough balls was somehow outdated, still people follow basically the same recipes with small improvements.
In reply to Post #20
There has been a development that makes boilies obsolete but the inventors are not interested in making money and certainly would not come on here to give it away and take flak
There has been a development that makes boilies obsolete but the inventors are not interested in making money and certainly would not come on here to give it away and take flak
In reply to Post #20
It's an offset between cost and quality, the upper limit of what a bait could potentially cost could be huge, as said there are lots of other ingredients which would push the price up massively if used, which could and would make the price unjustifiable to most. Most couldn't afford to be chucking out a tenners worth of bait round each rod 5 times every weekend, hence the expensive baits don't sell so well, and when people catch them on bits of maize, plastic, etc etc then many think why would you spend big money? Think it was matey from scientific baits who said he couldn't work out how anyone justifies selling bait for more than about £7kg.
Not sure about the rh comment either, after all boilies are all balls of dough, nomatter what's actually in them
It's an offset between cost and quality, the upper limit of what a bait could potentially cost could be huge, as said there are lots of other ingredients which would push the price up massively if used, which could and would make the price unjustifiable to most. Most couldn't afford to be chucking out a tenners worth of bait round each rod 5 times every weekend, hence the expensive baits don't sell so well, and when people catch them on bits of maize, plastic, etc etc then many think why would you spend big money? Think it was matey from scientific baits who said he couldn't work out how anyone justifies selling bait for more than about £7kg.
Not sure about the rh comment either, after all boilies are all balls of dough, nomatter what's actually in them
In reply to Post #21
I find it hard to imagine Boilies ever becoming obsolete. The use of Boilies are too practical and functional. I could be wrong though!
I find it hard to imagine Boilies ever becoming obsolete. The use of Boilies are too practical and functional. I could be wrong though!
In reply to Post #22
I agree, it is a limit to how much you can spend on bait, but nobody says you have to feed kilos on every rod with regular intervals. That might be the best method some places and some times but not everywhere every time.
Or for some the extra fish on the bank may be worth the extra £.
It's all up to the individual. Some would spend their money on £30 bank sticks and other would rather spend the money on bait.
Not sure about the rh comment either, after all boilies are all balls of dough, nomatter what's actually in them
What RH said was that whole concept of putting the everything into a dough and boil it was far from an ideal way of presenting the ingredients. This due to lack of leakage and other factors.
I agree, it is a limit to how much you can spend on bait, but nobody says you have to feed kilos on every rod with regular intervals. That might be the best method some places and some times but not everywhere every time.
Or for some the extra fish on the bank may be worth the extra £.
It's all up to the individual. Some would spend their money on £30 bank sticks and other would rather spend the money on bait.
Not sure about the rh comment either, after all boilies are all balls of dough, nomatter what's actually in them
What RH said was that whole concept of putting the everything into a dough and boil it was far from an ideal way of presenting the ingredients. This due to lack of leakage and other factors.
In reply to Post #24
Oh I agree, not ideal to boil but again it's about practicality. Paste would be better but as you know, not easy to use in many situations
Oh I agree, not ideal to boil but again it's about practicality. Paste would be better but as you know, not easy to use in many situations
All the best to them, if that's what the cost needs to be to make profit then so be it 👍🏻 Cell and the like is £12 a kg ( for a single kg from the shops ) and its always selling. Is it because it's good or because it's a fashion to follow the users of it.
Blake's bait is expensive but has a good reputation. Mark's hookbaits are expensive but again have a great following.
Each to there own and it's like cars and fishing tackle it's what the user what's to spend.
Blake's bait is expensive but has a good reputation. Mark's hookbaits are expensive but again have a great following.
Each to there own and it's like cars and fishing tackle it's what the user what's to spend.
I think one major problem for people who try to sell high quality hi-nu-val baits that are unavoidably expensive is the con, fashion, trend, disinformation that you have to use large amounts of boilies to catch. I have found a couple of kilos a day over 3 rods will catch plenty of fish. I often use a lot less than this. Fishing well is the key.
On those out and out commercial waters where every session is a match against the anglers 10yds on either side then buy lots of cheap alternatives and bung it in if you must.
On those out and out commercial waters where every session is a match against the anglers 10yds on either side then buy lots of cheap alternatives and bung it in if you must.
In reply to Post #27
You don't have to use lots of bait, but sometimes it helps, especially if your water has lots of other species for instance, or crays etc etc. Or if the carp are really having it, if you don't give them enough they can move off. Quality doesn't have to mean expensive either, the problem is many are too lazy to make their own.
You don't have to use lots of bait, but sometimes it helps, especially if your water has lots of other species for instance, or crays etc etc. Or if the carp are really having it, if you don't give them enough they can move off. Quality doesn't have to mean expensive either, the problem is many are too lazy to make their own.
In reply to Post #28
Putting more boilies in is not the only way to address the problems you mention, including the etc etc and very often it is not the best way.
If we are talking boilies the type and quality of ingredient is what dictates the cost, home made or otherwise.
When the fish move off, they move off, glad I've caught.
Putting more boilies in is not the only way to address the problems you mention, including the etc etc and very often it is not the best way.
If we are talking boilies the type and quality of ingredient is what dictates the cost, home made or otherwise.
When the fish move off, they move off, glad I've caught.
In reply to Post #29
But very often it is the best way too. Not so much with crays agreed. And most like to catch as much as they can when they get the opportunity! Of course we are talking boilies, and yes I'm fully aware of that having been making them for 30 years..
But very often it is the best way too. Not so much with crays agreed. And most like to catch as much as they can when they get the opportunity! Of course we are talking boilies, and yes I'm fully aware of that having been making them for 30 years..