knowing the press, i doubt all these campers was really there, probably a a few fisherman, and 1 camper maybe, that didnt like it, but still, stupid infront of people, could of just said get it in this box from the net, ill take it somewhere else miles away, 20 mins later bang bang 
In reply to Post #12
Hi Paul
"they demonstrate good quality water"
To be honest I think it's a valid point, I've only ever seen otters in Europe on the venues and rivers with a better water quality.
Whole thing is sad all round, the man in question has been called an idiot a number of times on this thread, and (whilst I don't condone what he has done) he's quite obviously been pushed beyond his limit.
I truthfully don't know how I'd react seeing my livelihood and probably dream being destroyed in the way the UK otter situation is treating venue owners and fish stocks in general.
When you get 3 months probation for beating and robbing an 82 year old blind woman and 2 months inside for shooting an otter? Lots wrong here
Best
Jon
Hi Paul
"they demonstrate good quality water"
To be honest I think it's a valid point, I've only ever seen otters in Europe on the venues and rivers with a better water quality.
Whole thing is sad all round, the man in question has been called an idiot a number of times on this thread, and (whilst I don't condone what he has done) he's quite obviously been pushed beyond his limit.
I truthfully don't know how I'd react seeing my livelihood and probably dream being destroyed in the way the UK otter situation is treating venue owners and fish stocks in general.
When you get 3 months probation for beating and robbing an 82 year old blind woman and 2 months inside for shooting an otter? Lots wrong here
Best
Jon
Dont know what the truth is ?
but apparently he simply could not afford the otter fencing ?
CLEARLY he should not have done it in front of so many people but I can understand he had probably lost it sadly
in some circumstances A farmer can legally SHOOT a Dog if its deemed it was worrying his sheep !
And yet A fishery owner cannot harm a Predator thats actually decimating his fish stock he owns ?
and now will get Jail time !!!!!!
yet child molesters rapists and muggers to name a few types have walked free without Jail time ??
IMHO ITS A DISGRACE this bloke was given a prison sentence for his crime
but apparently he simply could not afford the otter fencing ?
CLEARLY he should not have done it in front of so many people but I can understand he had probably lost it sadly
in some circumstances A farmer can legally SHOOT a Dog if its deemed it was worrying his sheep !
And yet A fishery owner cannot harm a Predator thats actually decimating his fish stock he owns ?
and now will get Jail time !!!!!!
yet child molesters rapists and muggers to name a few types have walked free without Jail time ??
IMHO ITS A DISGRACE this bloke was given a prison sentence for his crime
Since Xmas,I have seen three otters,alive on the road,my wife has seen one,all in different locations..
A lake,on a holiday complex is being destroyed as I speak,last week when I was perching,a big dog otter, popped up,right over my prawn hookbait..scales,spraint,and body parts are evident.I gave the info to the owners last yr,they failed to act, so it is their fault..
The otter is not rare,or endangered, it should be removed from protected status,asap...
Yesterday,in all the rain and wind,I spent the day repairing,and replacing ,the electric powerpac,it lasted four yrs,I not lost a carp since I put a fence round..so I can't complain..
I understand the guy's frustration,and as it was already in the net,it could have been reported,and removed...(sic)
Rewilders in this country cause untold damage and misery to many people,.....they should be held accountable..
I now have a released beaver in the nearby river,destroying all the trees....
A lake,on a holiday complex is being destroyed as I speak,last week when I was perching,a big dog otter, popped up,right over my prawn hookbait..scales,spraint,and body parts are evident.I gave the info to the owners last yr,they failed to act, so it is their fault..
The otter is not rare,or endangered, it should be removed from protected status,asap...
Yesterday,in all the rain and wind,I spent the day repairing,and replacing ,the electric powerpac,it lasted four yrs,I not lost a carp since I put a fence round..so I can't complain..
I understand the guy's frustration,and as it was already in the net,it could have been reported,and removed...(sic)
Rewilders in this country cause untold damage and misery to many people,.....they should be held accountable..
I now have a released beaver in the nearby river,destroying all the trees....
In reply to Post #18
But then there's kids in jail doing a hell of a lot longer, who were forced or manipulated to run drugs or carry guns.
But then there's kids in jail doing a hell of a lot longer, who were forced or manipulated to run drugs or carry guns.
In reply to Post #19
problem is there is no population records for otters and it is too hard to get them as you cant distinguish them for the most part. Without numbers there is no case to say there are endangered still, but neither is there a case to say they aren't.
If I was his lawyer I would be appealing the jail time decision on the basis of exactly what's been mentioned. I dont think any judge can put him inside when faced with the fact that actual criminals walk free or get a chance. No doubt a biased judge. Either that or he cant afford to pay the hefty fine so has to get locked up.
problem is there is no population records for otters and it is too hard to get them as you cant distinguish them for the most part. Without numbers there is no case to say there are endangered still, but neither is there a case to say they aren't.
If I was his lawyer I would be appealing the jail time decision on the basis of exactly what's been mentioned. I dont think any judge can put him inside when faced with the fact that actual criminals walk free or get a chance. No doubt a biased judge. Either that or he cant afford to pay the hefty fine so has to get locked up.
This will be controversial but I'm sorry we as anglers have no right to kill or dictate where a wild animal that was native to this country goes, if a lake owner is worried about his stocks then fence it!! There are grants available for such things, it's no excuse. Sorry no one is gonna change my mind
Sadly the wildlife lovers will now tar all anglers with the same brush as this knuckle dragger. If anything this will now have set back all the good work done by the PAG and the angling trust to build bridges between the angling and wildlife communities. The blokes an idiot, and I for one am embarrassed if this is what anglers are portrayed as to the rest of the country.
In reply to Post #17
Hi Jon
It was more the 'otters have a limited impact on the fishing population' bit I was highlighting. I have no doubt that otters prefer nice clean water with plenty of fish in it but I would suspect you would rarely see an otter in a swimming pool but frequently see them in an overstocked muddy pond, that is until it becomes an understocked muddy pond.
That all withstanding this bloke has put our cause back a long way.
It may have been different if he shot an otter that was busy killing a swan or goose, but joe public rarely sees fish and rarely care about them.
Hi Jon
It was more the 'otters have a limited impact on the fishing population' bit I was highlighting. I have no doubt that otters prefer nice clean water with plenty of fish in it but I would suspect you would rarely see an otter in a swimming pool but frequently see them in an overstocked muddy pond, that is until it becomes an understocked muddy pond.
That all withstanding this bloke has put our cause back a long way.
It may have been different if he shot an otter that was busy killing a swan or goose, but joe public rarely sees fish and rarely care about them.
In reply to Post #1
Blokes an idiot, end of
Blokes an idiot, end of
In reply to Post #24
Hi Paul
Wasn't having a dig at all.
I think almost all anglers I've met in Europe and EE are pretty shocked about the otter situation in the UK as they fish in or around them year in year out without any major problems.
The problem the UK has is you have a highly legally protected "designer" predator that's causing environnental havoc.
If no-one foresaw a venue owner (and let's stop calling him just an angler) having his livelihood and life destroyed and ending up doing what he's done a shock?
Sorry but it's been coming for years and rightly or wrongly highlights a serious problem.
Best
Jon
Hi Paul
Wasn't having a dig at all.
I think almost all anglers I've met in Europe and EE are pretty shocked about the otter situation in the UK as they fish in or around them year in year out without any major problems.
The problem the UK has is you have a highly legally protected "designer" predator that's causing environnental havoc.
If no-one foresaw a venue owner (and let's stop calling him just an angler) having his livelihood and life destroyed and ending up doing what he's done a shock?
Sorry but it's been coming for years and rightly or wrongly highlights a serious problem.
Best
Jon
The wildlife trust openly admit that there are too many otters,the males ,are not supposed to tolerate another in a specific range..they tolerate another male on 'their'patch now,that's a significant sign of over population..
I wish to see the protected status removed from these creatures,far too many of them around,and that's why they target fisheries..especially when rivers are in spate.
I know someone,who suffered mental health and physical issues because a female and youngsters destroyed a lovely Cornish fishery..
Having studied them for over thirty years,simply they are not sustainable in today's increasing urbanisation..
This is all caused man playing god with an apex predator..
The pointed finger ,lies solely with do goders,and rewilders..
With over 100 private and commercial fisheries ruined by predation,that itself is a truth....not covered up by lies by the rewilding brigade..(in my area)...that itself points to an over population of very hungry predators...
I wish to see the protected status removed from these creatures,far too many of them around,and that's why they target fisheries..especially when rivers are in spate.
I know someone,who suffered mental health and physical issues because a female and youngsters destroyed a lovely Cornish fishery..
Having studied them for over thirty years,simply they are not sustainable in today's increasing urbanisation..
This is all caused man playing god with an apex predator..
The pointed finger ,lies solely with do goders,and rewilders..
With over 100 private and commercial fisheries ruined by predation,that itself is a truth....not covered up by lies by the rewilding brigade..(in my area)...that itself points to an over population of very hungry predators...
The court heard otters have a limited impact on the fishing population within this environment and were actually a positive feature as they demonstrate good quality water for fish.
I'm assuming that there was some form of environmental/ fish survey to provide the above information to the court? I wonder who carried it out on this water. Natural England? The otter trust? How did they determine how many lbs fish were eaten by the otters to cone to the conclusion that the otters present had a limited impact on this fishery? I think there are better ways of demonstrating that your lake/pond/river has good water quality then having otters present to provide this!
I'm assuming that there was some form of environmental/ fish survey to provide the above information to the court? I wonder who carried it out on this water. Natural England? The otter trust? How did they determine how many lbs fish were eaten by the otters to cone to the conclusion that the otters present had a limited impact on this fishery? I think there are better ways of demonstrating that your lake/pond/river has good water quality then having otters present to provide this!
In reply to Post #28
G.B,I can tell you now mate,that I would not believe a single word from any rewilders,..they would have used some sort of expert in court,using all the trendy enviro,buzz speak to dismantle that fishery guy,he wouldn't have stood a chance..
So you make a good point..
However, let this case be a warning.you have only a few options
Fence your water
Hope lutra 'goes away'...
Turn to god...
Myself I see the big picture,the future for any country pursuit is very unclear....
G.B,I can tell you now mate,that I would not believe a single word from any rewilders,..they would have used some sort of expert in court,using all the trendy enviro,buzz speak to dismantle that fishery guy,he wouldn't have stood a chance..
So you make a good point..
However, let this case be a warning.you have only a few options
Fence your water
Hope lutra 'goes away'...
Turn to god...
Myself I see the big picture,the future for any country pursuit is very unclear....
In reply to Post #29
You and me Adam put these same posts up on a kind of three month rota and have been doing so for over 8 years! If the message has not sunk in by now, I doubt it ever will.
Otters are here for good, FACT
If you care for the fish stocks then fence it, if you can't be bothered then they will get eaten at some point in the future.
If you can't fence the water for some reason, then on the grounds of fish welfare get them transferred to a water that is fenced, rather than sitting back and watching them get systematically butchered (I've seen it happen!)
As I've put before Adam, the price of Otter fencing quote's they get scares the hell out of a lot of fishery owners, when in reality if they did it themselves and sourced the many, many options of Fencing materials that can be utilised the actual cost is trivial (I priced some 6ft heavy duty Mesh, with a 25 year life span that could be utilised the other week, worked out mesh only £1.30 per meter!)
It's madness that fisheries are being destroyed for no reason.
You and me Adam put these same posts up on a kind of three month rota and have been doing so for over 8 years! If the message has not sunk in by now, I doubt it ever will.
Otters are here for good, FACT
If you care for the fish stocks then fence it, if you can't be bothered then they will get eaten at some point in the future.
If you can't fence the water for some reason, then on the grounds of fish welfare get them transferred to a water that is fenced, rather than sitting back and watching them get systematically butchered (I've seen it happen!)
As I've put before Adam, the price of Otter fencing quote's they get scares the hell out of a lot of fishery owners, when in reality if they did it themselves and sourced the many, many options of Fencing materials that can be utilised the actual cost is trivial (I priced some 6ft heavy duty Mesh, with a 25 year life span that could be utilised the other week, worked out mesh only £1.30 per meter!)
It's madness that fisheries are being destroyed for no reason.