I'm trying to make a solution of Betaine HCL for a dip but it's not disolving fully.
previously I'd made a super solution with anhydrous- you can throw it in boiling water until it's almost syrupy.
I know that the max soulability is 65g/100ml, for what it's worth I'm struggling at 40g/100ml and there is still some sediment forming in the bottom.
previously I'd made a super solution with anhydrous- you can throw it in boiling water until it's almost syrupy.
I know that the max soulability is 65g/100ml, for what it's worth I'm struggling at 40g/100ml and there is still some sediment forming in the bottom.
In reply to Post #1
Use less, you don't need much in a bait for it to be effective. Less is more..
Use less, you don't need much in a bait for it to be effective. Less is more..
It's going to be used as a base solution and won't all be going into a single dip,
I would use it to add small measurements to small egg white only pop-up mixes instead of measuring tenths of a gram.
Anyhoo, the 60% solution theory seems to have failed, I was hoping to add a minimal amount of water to the sticky components of the glug that 5g may or may not disolve into.
I would use it to add small measurements to small egg white only pop-up mixes instead of measuring tenths of a gram.
Anyhoo, the 60% solution theory seems to have failed, I was hoping to add a minimal amount of water to the sticky components of the glug that 5g may or may not disolve into.
In reply to Post #1
Did you have good results with the concentrated anhydrous version solution as a dip previously ? Also was it just as a quick 5 minute soak or long term storage in the solution ?
Did you have good results with the concentrated anhydrous version solution as a dip previously ? Also was it just as a quick 5 minute soak or long term storage in the solution ?
In reply to Post #3
Ah ok, you posted an answer before I'd even managed to post the questions Lol.
Ah ok, you posted an answer before I'd even managed to post the questions Lol.
In reply to Post #3
I usually use 2 g of the anhydrous version in 100 g of hookbait base mix. Works well for me.
I usually use 2 g of the anhydrous version in 100 g of hookbait base mix. Works well for me.
In reply to Post #6
I have never used betaine. Tank tested some and seen ZERO reaction, so cannot see any worth in a glug or even in a bait.
Do you think 2g in 500g is really changing things...
So many variables, you could have the bait 110% right (with ot without betaine) but just have a bad day. You'd never know.
I'd sooner have an extra 2g of pdfm.
I have never used betaine. Tank tested some and seen ZERO reaction, so cannot see any worth in a glug or even in a bait.
Do you think 2g in 500g is really changing things...
So many variables, you could have the bait 110% right (with ot without betaine) but just have a bad day. You'd never know.
I'd sooner have an extra 2g of pdfm.
In reply to Post #4
Did you have good results with the concentrated anhydrous version solution as a dip previously ? Also was it just as a quick 5 minute soak or long term storage in the solution ?
yes, hook baits (corkballs) were sprinkled with anhydrous out of the pan and I've used dipped/soaked.
Tigers in betatalin
May be wrong in some opinions but there were times when it couldn't be over done.
Ian Parberry enlightened me on the stuff back in the 90s, explained the super solution, wasn't paying five quid for 250ml any more.
Also used HCL with some success in baits 
I'm day-ticketing, no long term feed bait plans, fishing for runs where a different bait on one rod might pick up a better fish or a load of fish. Or nothing
Did you have good results with the concentrated anhydrous version solution as a dip previously ? Also was it just as a quick 5 minute soak or long term storage in the solution ?
yes, hook baits (corkballs) were sprinkled with anhydrous out of the pan and I've used dipped/soaked.
Tigers in betatalin
May be wrong in some opinions but there were times when it couldn't be over done.
Ian Parberry enlightened me on the stuff back in the 90s, explained the super solution, wasn't paying five quid for 250ml any more.
Also used HCL with some success in baits
I'm day-ticketing, no long term feed bait plans, fishing for runs where a different bait on one rod might pick up a better fish or a load of fish. Or nothing
In reply to Post #7
I just use it at 2 % , so 2g in 100g for hookbaits. But yeah, so many variables. I use 1% citric acid with various soluble powders and actively fermenting CSL. The paste is then proved for around 12 hours before rolling. Is the betaine adding anything extra with all that going on ? Possibly not. I may just ditch it once I've run out of my current stock. . I think it' s a nostalgia thing to be honest.
I just use it at 2 % , so 2g in 100g for hookbaits. But yeah, so many variables. I use 1% citric acid with various soluble powders and actively fermenting CSL. The paste is then proved for around 12 hours before rolling. Is the betaine adding anything extra with all that going on ? Possibly not. I may just ditch it once I've run out of my current stock. . I think it' s a nostalgia thing to be honest.
In reply to Post #7
Variables are there for sure, every situation is different,
edit.
The same could be said for any additive, be that choosing between salmon oil or cod liver oil, LT($ or Irish fishmeal, GLM, liver, garlic, ethyl or nature idetical flavours, red, yellow, natural colour,
I don't think that I've harmed my chances by adding 5-10g of betaine to a base mix or soaking a hookbait.
Variables are there for sure, every situation is different,
edit.
The same could be said for any additive, be that choosing between salmon oil or cod liver oil, LT($ or Irish fishmeal, GLM, liver, garlic, ethyl or nature idetical flavours, red, yellow, natural colour,
I don't think that I've harmed my chances by adding 5-10g of betaine to a base mix or soaking a hookbait.
In reply to Post #10
Fair enough, totally your choice.
Tank tests show that any fishmeal will get the bottom torn apart, so I'd happily sub one for another with no issue.
The thinking with betaine is that it helps utilise other ingredients, but has no actual attraction of its own.
Can't argue that the multinational pellet manufacturers use it so the research and proof must be there.
But as an additional ingredient in a boilie I can't justify it. If fish are eating my pellets and everyone else's then they are getting their betaine ration anyway.
The pellet manufacturers are basically catering for fish farms where the pellet feed is the only feed the fish get. Once in a lake then there is many bait options available, and they can still get some betaine from the available pellets so they are not missing out.
Fair enough, totally your choice.
Tank tests show that any fishmeal will get the bottom torn apart, so I'd happily sub one for another with no issue.
The thinking with betaine is that it helps utilise other ingredients, but has no actual attraction of its own.
Can't argue that the multinational pellet manufacturers use it so the research and proof must be there.
But as an additional ingredient in a boilie I can't justify it. If fish are eating my pellets and everyone else's then they are getting their betaine ration anyway.
The pellet manufacturers are basically catering for fish farms where the pellet feed is the only feed the fish get. Once in a lake then there is many bait options available, and they can still get some betaine from the available pellets so they are not missing out.
In reply to Post #1
Just wondering if increased minerals/chemicals in your water might be hampering it.
Too early in the morning to look at chemistry right now but just a thought as supplies can vary seasonally.
Edit, maybe try de ionised water, more consistent results.
Just wondering if increased minerals/chemicals in your water might be hampering it.
Too early in the morning to look at chemistry right now but just a thought as supplies can vary seasonally.
Edit, maybe try de ionised water, more consistent results.
In reply to Post #10
I don't think that you're harming your chances either. And for the extra few pence in a kilo of bait, you're not really harming your bank balance either. If you include it in your free offerings, you may as well include it in your hookbaits. Even if it's not attractive as such, there's certainly the possibility that it's detectable and so similar to your free offerings.
I don't think that you're harming your chances either. And for the extra few pence in a kilo of bait, you're not really harming your bank balance either. If you include it in your free offerings, you may as well include it in your hookbaits. Even if it's not attractive as such, there's certainly the possibility that it's detectable and so similar to your free offerings.
Much more going on with this ingredient than meets the eye, methyl donor properties for one & when mixed with amino acids creates better feeding responses.
Only know as I was recently clearing out a load of my old notes and had quite a bit about this, so much you forget!
Only know as I was recently clearing out a load of my old notes and had quite a bit about this, so much you forget!
In reply to Post #12
Just wondering if increased minerals/chemicals in your water might be hampering it.
possible, Anglian Water can have a twang to it and there have been water works.
I went to town yesterday with the intention of picking up some purified water, the chemist had litre bottles of alkaline water..not ideal for an acid solution. Or gallons.
There is a milky white semi-soluable in the bottom now, possibly the 2% impurity?
Just wondering if increased minerals/chemicals in your water might be hampering it.
possible, Anglian Water can have a twang to it and there have been water works.
I went to town yesterday with the intention of picking up some purified water, the chemist had litre bottles of alkaline water..not ideal for an acid solution. Or gallons.
There is a milky white semi-soluable in the bottom now, possibly the 2% impurity?