A little while ago I got chatting to a guy, clearly a pretty successful big fish angler and we ended up talking about bait. He said that his bait is made up of just casein, calcium caseinate and just enough birdfood to help with rolling. Oh and just one old skool flavour. He said he believes that carp just love protein and that's why he's successful.
I'm sure he's also a good angler as well though.
Anyone have any thoughts on such a simple high protein bait?
I'm sure he's also a good angler as well though.
Anyone have any thoughts on such a simple high protein bait?
In reply to Post #1
If it contains a bird food it won't be simple, protein content above about 35% is just wasted. Carp like the taste of milk proteins, calcium caseinate is a good ingredient, so im not surprised it's a good bait. Not the cheapest nowadays though, probably why it's used less.
If it contains a bird food it won't be simple, protein content above about 35% is just wasted. Carp like the taste of milk proteins, calcium caseinate is a good ingredient, so im not surprised it's a good bait. Not the cheapest nowadays though, probably why it's used less.
If it's a pure milk and you roll yourself you are looking at around 15 quid a kilo rolled.
20 years ago when I did a winter with a high protein mix it's was about 6 quid a kilo made.
From memory.
Casein
Calcium cassinate
Lactalbumin
Egg albumen
Rich worth blue cheese flavour.
Nutrabaits garlic oil.
20 years ago when I did a winter with a high protein mix it's was about 6 quid a kilo made.
From memory.
Casein
Calcium cassinate
Lactalbumin
Egg albumen
Rich worth blue cheese flavour.
Nutrabaits garlic oil.
In reply to Post #2
He is well aware that from a nutritional point of view his bait is neither complete or the protein content necessary, he's just convinced that the carp are attracted to and love eating his extremely high protein milk based bait.
He is well aware that from a nutritional point of view his bait is neither complete or the protein content necessary, he's just convinced that the carp are attracted to and love eating his extremely high protein milk based bait.
In reply to Post #4
I wouldn't disagree with that.
I wouldn't disagree with that.
In reply to Post #4
I am with him 100%.
i recently put together about a kilo of what i believed was a 'super bait' based on old school Milk proteins and new wave attraction powders, liquids etc. Using baby food milk proteins and the like. It rolled like a pig, but given small quantity it was do-able.
Using very little bait, I have caught on the three sessions I have fished with it, using no more than about 100 baits across the sessions. Previously I had blanked on a fairly 'OK' water that had decided to go granite for all members. Was it the bait? I'm not sure, but it seemed spooky and results whilst not conclusive suggest that on the sessions I fished they were not after food, but easy sweets in low quantities that satisfied something.
I did some very basic maths and in the way I purchased ingredients it would be fortunes to put together and even worse to roll mechanically. I don't think any angler would be prepared for the huge increase in price or would trust any roller to put together the attractor package in he detail needed.
Some of the ingredients we now have access to from other avenues (health and body building etc.) are unbelievable.
I am with him 100%.
i recently put together about a kilo of what i believed was a 'super bait' based on old school Milk proteins and new wave attraction powders, liquids etc. Using baby food milk proteins and the like. It rolled like a pig, but given small quantity it was do-able.
Using very little bait, I have caught on the three sessions I have fished with it, using no more than about 100 baits across the sessions. Previously I had blanked on a fairly 'OK' water that had decided to go granite for all members. Was it the bait? I'm not sure, but it seemed spooky and results whilst not conclusive suggest that on the sessions I fished they were not after food, but easy sweets in low quantities that satisfied something.
I did some very basic maths and in the way I purchased ingredients it would be fortunes to put together and even worse to roll mechanically. I don't think any angler would be prepared for the huge increase in price or would trust any roller to put together the attractor package in he detail needed.
Some of the ingredients we now have access to from other avenues (health and body building etc.) are unbelievable.
In reply to Post #6
Nice. I've promised myself to have a crack at high milks mix this year, picked up some decent priced bits, hydros and carbs etc in some of the fitness site sales over the hols.
What % solubles do you think you've topped out at for gunning and handling and break down levels?
Messing around on the spreadsheets it's easy to get to crazy looking soluble levels with the high milk blends and the stickiness of some of the hydros when wet.
Nice. I've promised myself to have a crack at high milks mix this year, picked up some decent priced bits, hydros and carbs etc in some of the fitness site sales over the hols.
What % solubles do you think you've topped out at for gunning and handling and break down levels?
Messing around on the spreadsheets it's easy to get to crazy looking soluble levels with the high milk blends and the stickiness of some of the hydros when wet.
In reply to Post #1
There is a very good high protein milk bait in the Carp strikes back.
There is a very good high protein milk bait in the Carp strikes back.
In reply to Post #8
I believe this is the one that you are alluding too -
2oz x Lactalbumin
2oz x Caseinate (Sodium or Calcium)
2oz x Soya Isolate
4oz x Casein
1/2oz x Vitrex
I believe this is the one that you are alluding too -
2oz x Lactalbumin
2oz x Caseinate (Sodium or Calcium)
2oz x Soya Isolate
4oz x Casein
1/2oz x Vitrex
In reply to Post #9
I used this mix after reading the book about 1984/5 dyed red, and flavoured with ritchworth pineapple flavour and sweetener. Best Roach bait I've ever used.
I used this mix after reading the book about 1984/5 dyed red, and flavoured with ritchworth pineapple flavour and sweetener. Best Roach bait I've ever used.
In reply to Post #7
I played about with a high milk bait a while back and had a few chats with John Baker about it as well. I can't find the exact recipe that I ended up with but here's what I think it was:
200g Acid Casein, 200g Rennet Casein, 150g WPC, 150g Calcium Caseinate, 100g Soya Flour, 100g Semolina, 50g Wheatgerm and 50g Brocacel
Honestly, I think I didn't give it a good enough go or apply it properly. Perhaps at some point I'll go back to it...
I played about with a high milk bait a while back and had a few chats with John Baker about it as well. I can't find the exact recipe that I ended up with but here's what I think it was:
200g Acid Casein, 200g Rennet Casein, 150g WPC, 150g Calcium Caseinate, 100g Soya Flour, 100g Semolina, 50g Wheatgerm and 50g Brocacel
Honestly, I think I didn't give it a good enough go or apply it properly. Perhaps at some point I'll go back to it...
In reply to Post #11
Thanks for sharing Chris.
Thats not a million miles away from what I've got on paper. I'm going to add in some hydrolysed milk proteins too - adjusting levels of others and i was considering, depending on how it rolled, some CLO/nut.
Thanks for sharing Chris.
Thats not a million miles away from what I've got on paper. I'm going to add in some hydrolysed milk proteins too - adjusting levels of others and i was considering, depending on how it rolled, some CLO/nut.
In reply to Post #12
Yeah even since then the hydrolysed milks are a bit of a game changer. If I were to do it again, I'd just get some of Sam Barley's stuff from Optibaits. He knows his stuff with milks. Prob a better mix than I could do and at a not too bad price. If I ever get my barbel head on again I'll definitely be back on the milks.
Yeah even since then the hydrolysed milks are a bit of a game changer. If I were to do it again, I'd just get some of Sam Barley's stuff from Optibaits. He knows his stuff with milks. Prob a better mix than I could do and at a not too bad price. If I ever get my barbel head on again I'll definitely be back on the milks.
In reply to Post #7
The firmness of mine was the issue and I believe the binding properties I used in the baby milks and body building powder along with eggs meant it could only be hand rolled really. Hydros I completely stayed away from due to not understanding or trusting longer term storage and stability. I purchased some brilliant hydro direct and fresh from producer but found that the month old product (even stored properly) was nothing like the what it was.
The thing with using milks and expensive attractor packages is that I am much more careful that something amiss can ruin an expensive and laborious process!
The firmness of mine was the issue and I believe the binding properties I used in the baby milks and body building powder along with eggs meant it could only be hand rolled really. Hydros I completely stayed away from due to not understanding or trusting longer term storage and stability. I purchased some brilliant hydro direct and fresh from producer but found that the month old product (even stored properly) was nothing like the what it was.
The thing with using milks and expensive attractor packages is that I am much more careful that something amiss can ruin an expensive and laborious process!
I listened to a podcast with Shaun Harrison earlier today.
He was telling a story about how he was developing a high protein milk bait years ago. He said that as he was getting the bait closer to where he wanted it, he noticed that his catch rates dropped. It wasn't until he started reducing the protein content that his catch rate picked up again.
The fish were "fuller" for longer on the high protein which then obviously affects how often they feed. He also mentioned that carp can't utilise proteins over the 40% mark.
I'm not as knowledgeable as you chaps but maybe that's some food for thought?
He was telling a story about how he was developing a high protein milk bait years ago. He said that as he was getting the bait closer to where he wanted it, he noticed that his catch rates dropped. It wasn't until he started reducing the protein content that his catch rate picked up again.
The fish were "fuller" for longer on the high protein which then obviously affects how often they feed. He also mentioned that carp can't utilise proteins over the 40% mark.
I'm not as knowledgeable as you chaps but maybe that's some food for thought?