The original enterprise imitation dog biscuits had a weight that meant the hook was on top of the biscuit when in the water as many of you will know.
Does having the hook on top, lead to more takes and less fish shying away at the last minute?
I have heard folk claim that when the hook is underneath the bait the carp can't see it as it's masked by the shadow of the hook bait. If this it true how come so many fish take the free offerings and leave your bait alone?
What method do you use to attach your hook bait that works for you, and catches you plenty off carp of the top?
Does having the hook on top, lead to more takes and less fish shying away at the last minute?
I have heard folk claim that when the hook is underneath the bait the carp can't see it as it's masked by the shadow of the hook bait. If this it true how come so many fish take the free offerings and leave your bait alone?
What method do you use to attach your hook bait that works for you, and catches you plenty off carp of the top?
In reply to Post #1
It's not just the hook being below surface that can mean the hookbait is left alone, in fact I would think that is the least likely reason.
The hookbait is on the hook and is attached to a length of line, sounds obvious, but that now means that the biscuit on the hook is going to behave differently.
Surface drift, the bait may drift faster or slower than freebies, because of the line. The hookbait, the biscuit is not so buoyant as it has a hook attached. The hook itself may act as a wind anchor. It may be the line attached to the hook is visible.
Years ago I played with ways to get the hook on top of the bait. Cut a normal boilie in half, and glue it to a piece of foam. With the foam, probably about 4 or 5mm thick, cut a small nick on the top of the foam, and glue a hook into it with the base of the shank and start of the bend into the slit.
Tie hook to your hooklink, the boilie should make the hook sit on top. You should also find that there is no line directly on the water right next to the hook.
Bear in mind I fish floating baits for chub as well, drifting baits across their heads, and chub are even more wary than carp.
I gave up faffing, and came up with some things that work for me.
Bait I use Bakers Complete. A mix of shapes and sizes, and the big chunks make good hookbaits.
Use the lightest hooklink possible to safely land fish, if that is 7lb Berkley Trilene XL, or 11lb Preston Reflo, use it. Yes, I'll have some missed takes, don't strike and you shouldn't spook them.
Fish as close to yourself as possible, if you can freeline off your rod tip absolutely brilliant. If you need a controller you might find a Nash Bolt machine is better than the normal tenpin controller.
I usually use hooks sized between 8 and 12, Drennan Super Specialists, Solar 101's.
My hooklink I make a loop at the end and put a Bakers Complete Meaty chunk on the loop, stopped with a boilie stop, then knotless knot my hook on. I then tie or attach my hooklink to the mainline, either a swivel join, or if freelining a water knot (usually).
It's not just the hook being below surface that can mean the hookbait is left alone, in fact I would think that is the least likely reason.
The hookbait is on the hook and is attached to a length of line, sounds obvious, but that now means that the biscuit on the hook is going to behave differently.
Surface drift, the bait may drift faster or slower than freebies, because of the line. The hookbait, the biscuit is not so buoyant as it has a hook attached. The hook itself may act as a wind anchor. It may be the line attached to the hook is visible.
Years ago I played with ways to get the hook on top of the bait. Cut a normal boilie in half, and glue it to a piece of foam. With the foam, probably about 4 or 5mm thick, cut a small nick on the top of the foam, and glue a hook into it with the base of the shank and start of the bend into the slit.
Tie hook to your hooklink, the boilie should make the hook sit on top. You should also find that there is no line directly on the water right next to the hook.
Bear in mind I fish floating baits for chub as well, drifting baits across their heads, and chub are even more wary than carp.
I gave up faffing, and came up with some things that work for me.
Bait I use Bakers Complete. A mix of shapes and sizes, and the big chunks make good hookbaits.
Use the lightest hooklink possible to safely land fish, if that is 7lb Berkley Trilene XL, or 11lb Preston Reflo, use it. Yes, I'll have some missed takes, don't strike and you shouldn't spook them.
Fish as close to yourself as possible, if you can freeline off your rod tip absolutely brilliant. If you need a controller you might find a Nash Bolt machine is better than the normal tenpin controller.
I usually use hooks sized between 8 and 12, Drennan Super Specialists, Solar 101's.
My hooklink I make a loop at the end and put a Bakers Complete Meaty chunk on the loop, stopped with a boilie stop, then knotless knot my hook on. I then tie or attach my hooklink to the mainline, either a swivel join, or if freelining a water knot (usually).
In reply to Post #2
Thanks for the in depth reply Nick. A few things for me to try there
Thanks for the in depth reply Nick. A few things for me to try there
In reply to Post #1
With the enterprise fake mixers, I cut a slot opposite the weight and slide the shank in, making minor adjustments so it floats with the hook secured in place and on top of the bait.
The hook has a hair Knotless knot style, which is threaded through the bait to come out of the weight hole and the split shot is pinched onto the hair loop and pushed back into the hole.
With the enterprise fake mixers, I cut a slot opposite the weight and slide the shank in, making minor adjustments so it floats with the hook secured in place and on top of the bait.
The hook has a hair Knotless knot style, which is threaded through the bait to come out of the weight hole and the split shot is pinched onto the hair loop and pushed back into the hole.
In reply to Post #1
Highly unlikely its anything to do with the hook, they dont k ow a hook is a hook! Probably more so to do with the line lay on the water. I'd imagine you can see the line a mile off from under the surface.
Highly unlikely its anything to do with the hook, they dont k ow a hook is a hook! Probably more so to do with the line lay on the water. I'd imagine you can see the line a mile off from under the surface.
In reply to Post #1
Ditched those years ago; they don't really work and IME the fish prefer a freebie to match most of the time.
If you really want to make surface fishing easy use the beach caster method - in terms of hook bait attachment a small hair is best as you can literally 'dapple' the bait with the hook above the waters surface
For standard floater fishing I used to hair rig but these days don't bother and prefer to use a band - Korum do some decent clear ones in several diameters.
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out - Nash Riser pellets are excellent for this mixed with a few larger pellets. Once they're slurping its game on . . . braided mainlines and a soft rod means fish are pretty much self hooked without the need to strike ridiculously
Ditched those years ago; they don't really work and IME the fish prefer a freebie to match most of the time.
If you really want to make surface fishing easy use the beach caster method - in terms of hook bait attachment a small hair is best as you can literally 'dapple' the bait with the hook above the waters surface
For standard floater fishing I used to hair rig but these days don't bother and prefer to use a band - Korum do some decent clear ones in several diameters.
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out - Nash Riser pellets are excellent for this mixed with a few larger pellets. Once they're slurping its game on . . . braided mainlines and a soft rod means fish are pretty much self hooked without the need to strike ridiculously
In reply to Post #6
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out
This is the really important bit.
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out
This is the really important bit.
In reply to Post #6
Thanks for the reply. Like the idea of keeping it simple, so popped into my local A/D today.
Found the Korum bait bands you mentioned and they looked pretty sturdy.
I already had a bag of 11mm Sonubaits Oily Floaters and a bag of Dynamite Big Fish 11mm Floaters so like the idea of banding them.
I bought the 10mm bait bands. Popped a pellet in and put it against my size 10 Korda Mixa hook. The hook looks to small but I could be wrong.
Can I ask what size bands, hooks, and pellet size you are banding please?
Thanks
Thanks for the reply. Like the idea of keeping it simple, so popped into my local A/D today.
Found the Korum bait bands you mentioned and they looked pretty sturdy.
I already had a bag of 11mm Sonubaits Oily Floaters and a bag of Dynamite Big Fish 11mm Floaters so like the idea of banding them.
I bought the 10mm bait bands. Popped a pellet in and put it against my size 10 Korda Mixa hook. The hook looks to small but I could be wrong.
Can I ask what size bands, hooks, and pellet size you are banding please?
Thanks
In reply to Post #8
I also use Korda Mixa Barbed in either 8 or 10 - band wise all depends on hookbaits but using standard floating pellets (11mm Sticky Krill / Dynamite Floaters) an 8mm Korum band (stretched) should suffice without fear of the fish sucking it out of the band once the pellet softens - I also have the 4mm bands for 6mm Floaters if they're feeding cautiously . . .
Band can be fished in a couple of ways - usually on the back of the shank for ease but you can also thread them onto the hooklink and create a tight overhand loop then knotless knot to the hook shank to create a looped hair which can give a bit more movement (perhaps better for smaller hookbaits) . . .the smaller the hook the better irrespective of hookbait size
I also use Korda Mixa Barbed in either 8 or 10 - band wise all depends on hookbaits but using standard floating pellets (11mm Sticky Krill / Dynamite Floaters) an 8mm Korum band (stretched) should suffice without fear of the fish sucking it out of the band once the pellet softens - I also have the 4mm bands for 6mm Floaters if they're feeding cautiously . . .
Band can be fished in a couple of ways - usually on the back of the shank for ease but you can also thread them onto the hooklink and create a tight overhand loop then knotless knot to the hook shank to create a looped hair which can give a bit more movement (perhaps better for smaller hookbaits) . . .the smaller the hook the better irrespective of hookbait size
In reply to Post #8
Thanks mate, all makes sense 👍
Thanks mate, all makes sense 👍
In reply to Post #10
On large gravel pits with a stock of large fish i would stick with dog biscuits as bait and baitband on. Bait a little to start with an increase as fish become interested. i used to fish a size 10 hook with two bands and two dog biscuits and tie the hooklink with palomar knot, you dont want to fish a knotless knot as the line will be pointing down into the water and the fish may spook off it. I used to fish a heavy fox inline bubble float with a long 8 ft hooklength and this seem to be the best method, as soon as i changed to something that was 'easier' to fish with, like those fake enterprise dog biscuits or a whittled down pop up boilie i did'nt do nearly so well and although a pain to keep changing the dog biscuits its worth it imo. You gotta keep moving the bands around on the hook untill the biscuits sit nicely on the back of the hook leaving the gape free. Whack it out there and most of the time you didnt need to strike.
If your on a smaller pond type water with doubles in etc then I would scale down to to size 12 or 14 and 1 biscuit and perhaps a lighter float set up.
On large gravel pits with a stock of large fish i would stick with dog biscuits as bait and baitband on. Bait a little to start with an increase as fish become interested. i used to fish a size 10 hook with two bands and two dog biscuits and tie the hooklink with palomar knot, you dont want to fish a knotless knot as the line will be pointing down into the water and the fish may spook off it. I used to fish a heavy fox inline bubble float with a long 8 ft hooklength and this seem to be the best method, as soon as i changed to something that was 'easier' to fish with, like those fake enterprise dog biscuits or a whittled down pop up boilie i did'nt do nearly so well and although a pain to keep changing the dog biscuits its worth it imo. You gotta keep moving the bands around on the hook untill the biscuits sit nicely on the back of the hook leaving the gape free. Whack it out there and most of the time you didnt need to strike.
If your on a smaller pond type water with doubles in etc then I would scale down to to size 12 or 14 and 1 biscuit and perhaps a lighter float set up.
In reply to Post #1
I'm afraid my answer will be old hat to some and boring...lol
Unless using actual mixers (originally Ped Chum but last decade plus Tesco Own mixed dry dog food) I always used Enterprise original fakes and they are great. I did try the weighted Enterprise versions you mention for a couple of years but they were a lot softer plastic and with the rec side hooking I lost a lot off the hook which didn't sit easy with me and has led to me stopping using fakes for that reason. I tried hair rigging into the weight slot too but still they came off.
Set up wise, it was always straight through with my mainline which again for decades was sensor. I then tried a new line which was quite heavy/stiff & black so hooklength wise I tried Fox Zig & floater which I've stayed with. I used to store premade hooklengths (6') on foam spools and would often reuse them until the line was damaged or they'd got to short from having to rety hooks. With the Fox Z&F however I find that it snaps easily if repeatedly used, I can only assume UV damage, So I'm not that confident reusing it.
Band wise I'm stuck in my ways, always a John Roberts, they have a circular disc that the hook goes through. I tried standard bands, I just don't like the way there's no stand off between hook and bait. I superglue the circular tab to the eye of the hook once its slid down.
Hook wise I bulk bought some of the old Fox 1b size 8s and I'm still using them, I like the Korda mixa 1s too, both nice light hooks but not for dense weed use.
With that band set up the hook bend is always proud of the front of the bisc tilted down due to the line being on the water and as long as the biscuit is relatively central it always sits right.
I agree with the movement of the biscuit rather than seeing the hook being the thing that puts Carp off the most, you'll often see them swirl a bait or blow it to see how it moves, it can be infuriating ar times, espesh when you're convinced its perfect 🤣
I'm afraid my answer will be old hat to some and boring...lol
Unless using actual mixers (originally Ped Chum but last decade plus Tesco Own mixed dry dog food) I always used Enterprise original fakes and they are great. I did try the weighted Enterprise versions you mention for a couple of years but they were a lot softer plastic and with the rec side hooking I lost a lot off the hook which didn't sit easy with me and has led to me stopping using fakes for that reason. I tried hair rigging into the weight slot too but still they came off.
Set up wise, it was always straight through with my mainline which again for decades was sensor. I then tried a new line which was quite heavy/stiff & black so hooklength wise I tried Fox Zig & floater which I've stayed with. I used to store premade hooklengths (6') on foam spools and would often reuse them until the line was damaged or they'd got to short from having to rety hooks. With the Fox Z&F however I find that it snaps easily if repeatedly used, I can only assume UV damage, So I'm not that confident reusing it.
Band wise I'm stuck in my ways, always a John Roberts, they have a circular disc that the hook goes through. I tried standard bands, I just don't like the way there's no stand off between hook and bait. I superglue the circular tab to the eye of the hook once its slid down.
Hook wise I bulk bought some of the old Fox 1b size 8s and I'm still using them, I like the Korda mixa 1s too, both nice light hooks but not for dense weed use.
With that band set up the hook bend is always proud of the front of the bisc tilted down due to the line being on the water and as long as the biscuit is relatively central it always sits right.
I agree with the movement of the biscuit rather than seeing the hook being the thing that puts Carp off the most, you'll often see them swirl a bait or blow it to see how it moves, it can be infuriating ar times, espesh when you're convinced its perfect 🤣
In reply to Post #12
Great reply. Some good tips there I can also use
Great reply. Some good tips there I can also use
In reply to Post #1
Im also in agreement that the hook underneath the hook bait is not usually the problem.
I dabble with a bit of fly fishing for Trout when the mood takes me and particularly when dry fly fishing find that when the going gets tough it really pays to scrutinise and improve the presentation to try and buy a bite.
Consider experimenting with different hook link materials (fluorocarbon, copolymer, monofilament). A thinner hook link will give you a finer presentation, but has to be balanced with offering a sensible breaking strain to suit the conditions. A water repelling substance on the hook link such as Mucilin etc. which will help it to float on the surface.
Cleaning and degreasing your hook link regularly often gets overlooked but can make the difference in getting a bite or not.
Im also in agreement that the hook underneath the hook bait is not usually the problem.
I dabble with a bit of fly fishing for Trout when the mood takes me and particularly when dry fly fishing find that when the going gets tough it really pays to scrutinise and improve the presentation to try and buy a bite.
Consider experimenting with different hook link materials (fluorocarbon, copolymer, monofilament). A thinner hook link will give you a finer presentation, but has to be balanced with offering a sensible breaking strain to suit the conditions. A water repelling substance on the hook link such as Mucilin etc. which will help it to float on the surface.
Cleaning and degreasing your hook link regularly often gets overlooked but can make the difference in getting a bite or not.
Loads of good tips on here
I add varying the length of your hooklength if you are missing bites. A bit of experimentation on this could change things
I add varying the length of your hooklength if you are missing bites. A bit of experimentation on this could change things