The small club lake I fish (about 5 acres) is surrounded by trees and pretty sheltered. When the leaf drop happened mid-end of Oct the fishing absolutely crashed with no one really catching (or at least nothing on the whatsapp which was always busy over the summer). We're talking a LOT of leaves in the margins around the whole lake.
The lake also went even clearer during this time.
I could find large groups of fish no problem (they didn't look like they were feeding) and would fish to showing fish or where I knew the fish were but no catches.
My question is this - have others seen similar things on their waters? Simon Scott talks about this being a big issue for some waters and I've heard similar reflections from other anglers - leaf litter affecting the pH of the water.
The lake also went even clearer during this time.
I could find large groups of fish no problem (they didn't look like they were feeding) and would fish to showing fish or where I knew the fish were but no catches.
My question is this - have others seen similar things on their waters? Simon Scott talks about this being a big issue for some waters and I've heard similar reflections from other anglers - leaf litter affecting the pH of the water.
Read something today by Julian Cundiff regarding winter water selection...Open waters, ie ones NOT surrounded by trees, are preferable because of leaf fall creating a sudden and unpleasant Ph change. One more variable to consider in our hobby!
In reply to Post #2
So which way does it go? Do the rotting leaves cause an increase or decrease in pH values?
So which way does it go? Do the rotting leaves cause an increase or decrease in pH values?
In reply to Post #2
Yep I saw that too - it's what prompted me to post here as I've been thinking about it quite a bit. It's my first year on this lake so have no previous experience to compare it to.
Yep I saw that too - it's what prompted me to post here as I've been thinking about it quite a bit. It's my first year on this lake so have no previous experience to compare it to.
In reply to Post #1
Certain leaves start to rot down very quickly, those from Alders for example, and this can cause a quite a drop in d.o. levels. The problem can be amplified if the water is still reasonably warm, because water can hold more d.o. when colder. Oak leaves on the other hand rot very slowly because they contain tanic acid. My little water had many, many large oaks around it (gradually being reduced) and yet I never registered any great pH change once the oak leaves had gone in.
Certain leaves start to rot down very quickly, those from Alders for example, and this can cause a quite a drop in d.o. levels. The problem can be amplified if the water is still reasonably warm, because water can hold more d.o. when colder. Oak leaves on the other hand rot very slowly because they contain tanic acid. My little water had many, many large oaks around it (gradually being reduced) and yet I never registered any great pH change once the oak leaves had gone in.
In reply to Post #3
Ph drop. Depends also if the water has much of a buffer such as in hard water areas.
Ph drop. Depends also if the water has much of a buffer such as in hard water areas.
In reply to Post #6
Just speaking in regard to venues in the south I've fished the big problem is the silt build up and often sadly it leads to fish deaths as the leaf and other vegetation breaks down.
A syndicate I belong to following low oxygen levels and a significant loss of silvers during a hot summer - luckily the pumps saved the carp. And on advice from the environment agency cleared one large area of trees to allow better air flow across the lake. It looked like a warzone when they did it though it's clearly important that vegetation surrounding and in lakes is managed more now with increased temperatures we see.
Just speaking in regard to venues in the south I've fished the big problem is the silt build up and often sadly it leads to fish deaths as the leaf and other vegetation breaks down.
A syndicate I belong to following low oxygen levels and a significant loss of silvers during a hot summer - luckily the pumps saved the carp. And on advice from the environment agency cleared one large area of trees to allow better air flow across the lake. It looked like a warzone when they did it though it's clearly important that vegetation surrounding and in lakes is managed more now with increased temperatures we see.
In reply to Post #7
Unfortunately anglers don't always react in a positive way to trees being cut down, even when the reasons are explained.
Unfortunately anglers don't always react in a positive way to trees being cut down, even when the reasons are explained.
In reply to Post #7
The trees won't be cut down - it's in a large park.
However, there are a few silty areas. Most of the lake has a more solid bed with lots of silk weed and some gravel/hard spots.
The trees won't be cut down - it's in a large park.
However, there are a few silty areas. Most of the lake has a more solid bed with lots of silk weed and some gravel/hard spots.
In reply to Post #5
essesxandy, your last sentence pretty much mimics my, very limited, experience of pH changes.
As old-cornishman has said you would expect a drop in pH levels due to decaying leaf litter, but I'm not sure just how often this occurs.
I'm intending to take regular pH measurements next year on my syndicate lake. It might be interesting to see if there are any variations throughout the day, or indeed throughout the year. Just a bit concerned the cheap meters won't be accurate enough to pick up any subtle variations. I very much doubt it will have any impact on how I go about my fishing or baiting up, though there are one or two things I want to try on one rod.
essesxandy, your last sentence pretty much mimics my, very limited, experience of pH changes.
As old-cornishman has said you would expect a drop in pH levels due to decaying leaf litter, but I'm not sure just how often this occurs.
I'm intending to take regular pH measurements next year on my syndicate lake. It might be interesting to see if there are any variations throughout the day, or indeed throughout the year. Just a bit concerned the cheap meters won't be accurate enough to pick up any subtle variations. I very much doubt it will have any impact on how I go about my fishing or baiting up, though there are one or two things I want to try on one rod.
In reply to Post #1
The water I fish suffered the same, fished well up till when the leaves started to fall. We would see large groups of fish just sitting high in the water. 11 acres and heavily tree lined. That amount of leaves rotting on the bottom must change the oxygen levels also.
The water I fish suffered the same, fished well up till when the leaves started to fall. We would see large groups of fish just sitting high in the water. 11 acres and heavily tree lined. That amount of leaves rotting on the bottom must change the oxygen levels also.
In reply to Post #11
Yes, any rotting matter lowers DO levels, this obviously includes weed, reeds. lilly pads etc
Yes, any rotting matter lowers DO levels, this obviously includes weed, reeds. lilly pads etc
In reply to Post #12
. Made a huge difference to the fishing, literally nothing come out in October I don't think.
. Made a huge difference to the fishing, literally nothing come out in October I don't think.
In reply to Post #13
Even though i have a DO meter, i always know when the levels have dropped as the water almost turns black
Even though i have a DO meter, i always know when the levels have dropped as the water almost turns black
In reply to Post #1
This is exactly the same scenario on a small estate lake I fish Chris.
Speaking to the bailiff a few weeks ago about this. He has been fishing the lake for over 30 years and observed the same effect of leaf fall. Literally no bites for a 2-3 week period, then they pick up again, although interestingly, more in daytime than night.
Those who catch switch to longer hook lengths (silty) and higher pop ups, to avoid leaf debris. For some reason, chods don't appear to be very successful on this particular lake. Have you considered adjusting rigs to account for extra debris?
Good luck and hope you're back amongst them soon.
This is exactly the same scenario on a small estate lake I fish Chris.
Speaking to the bailiff a few weeks ago about this. He has been fishing the lake for over 30 years and observed the same effect of leaf fall. Literally no bites for a 2-3 week period, then they pick up again, although interestingly, more in daytime than night.
Those who catch switch to longer hook lengths (silty) and higher pop ups, to avoid leaf debris. For some reason, chods don't appear to be very successful on this particular lake. Have you considered adjusting rigs to account for extra debris?
Good luck and hope you're back amongst them soon.